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| Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) (595988) | |
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| (596236) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 14:48:05 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 14:16:42 2008. I never said i was locomotive qualified. you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 14:48:57 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Alex L. on Sun Apr 6 10:31:48 2008. thanks again for pwning Ron. I love this stuff. it brings out all the trolls in response to my expressions of gratitude to you. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 14:49:08 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 6 14:27:20 2008. It's definitely a huge concern; accidents happen, but the rate at which they've occurred is simply too high.Incidentally, NTSB recently reported on two incidents on WMATA on that front, but just as easily it could have been NYCT, given the recent record. See the most recent two items here. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 6 14:50:48 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 14:33:10 2008. You know better than me, but could that attitude be changing?your pal, Fred |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 15:01:58 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 14:37:55 2008. It's more efficient than it would have been with only 2 tracks. And it's efficient enough so that you'd obsess over changes at the other end regardless of why those changes are happening. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Apr 6 15:06:44 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 14:37:55 2008. True, but the Javits Center station will have lengthy tail tracks that will extend to (I believe) 26th St. Main St's three tracks are stub-ended within the station, like most NYC subway terminals. Javits Center will be able to have extra trains stored beyond the station that could be put into service if needed. That can't be done at Main St because the tracks dead-end within the station and I don't think there's currently enough room to fit a full-length train on the current tail tracks (of which there are only two) at Times Sq. |
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| (596255) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 15:08:42 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 15:01:58 2008. It's more efficient than it would have been with only 2 tracks.No. Not necessarily so. It's the other factors that will or will not make it a most efficient terminal, e.g., tail tracks, high speed switches, wide platforms, etc. Flushing, after all, has 3 tracks, but it is quite inefficient. One hopes of course that Javits Ctr terminal will emulate the more successful Times Sq model, and even improve upon it with the third track. |
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| (596257) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 15:10:33 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Apr 6 15:06:44 2008. Absolutely correct as to the Javits Center terminal plans, from what I have seen of them. But, as I pointed out, that's not because there are SIMPLY three tracks planned for the new southern terminal. |
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| (596364) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 18:10:34 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 15:10:33 2008. Actually, you missed the point entirely because you didn't understand it. So I'll explain it again:Three tracks are better than two given equal conditions (comparing stub to stub, or given equal tail track conditions). We don't know why the timers were put in at Times Square, but we can guess that it is to protect construction workers or equipment in the tunnel beyond. If you were inclined (but you said you're not) you could visit the local tower and ask nicely, and likely they would tell you. Will they remove the timers once the extension is open for business? Mebbe. I hope so. |
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| (596366) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Apr 6 18:11:41 2008, in response to And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by G1Ravage on Sun Apr 6 04:19:36 2008. They already killed the 61st-Junction express run with the timers. Why are they doing this? |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by JohnL on Sun Apr 6 19:05:26 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 18:10:34 2008. Three tracks are better than two given equal conditions (comparing stub to stub, or given equal tail track conditions).Ron: prove it. Otherwise, you’re just foaming. What sort of interlocking plant do you need to make the three tracks better than two? Do you need some sort of flyover/duckunder? Otherwise, we’ll stick with maybe. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 19:13:43 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by JohnL on Sun Apr 6 19:05:26 2008. "Do you need some sort of flyover/duckunder?"To satisfy the foamers? Absolutely! At least one flyover per track! |
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| (596426) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:28:56 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 15:08:42 2008. The reasons Main Street is not efficient are as follows:1. Stub-end tracks within the station. 2. Timers installed due to 1. 3. High volume of passengers using the station. 4. Improper behavior of some of those passengers. 5. Dispatch-related maladies. I would suggest a track layout at Javits similar to that at 33rd Street PATH station, but make the switches accommodate a higher speed. However, I recognize that such decisions may have already been made. The ultimate reason why the timers at TSQ are in place:  When a tail track is marked with a signal and a sign saying, "End of Signal Control," and another saying, "No Third Rail Power Beyond This Point," you might as well treat it as an End of Track. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:30:20 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:28:56 2008. When a tail track…That should be, "When the entrance to a tail track…" |
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| (596434) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:35:32 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Michael549 on Sun Apr 6 10:22:09 2008. Before the timers, trains would enter the station at an estimated 20 to 30 MPH, as there's a straight stretch between the S curve and the diamond. Trains pulling into track 2 travel slower, topping out at an estimated 20 to 25.On exit from the station northbound, trains (on either track) usually do the sensitive rolling test, then wrap it (P3 on controller). |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by JohnL on Sun Apr 6 19:57:59 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 19:13:43 2008. Nice try, ducking the question. Now answer it for real. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 20:01:37 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by JohnL on Sun Apr 6 19:57:59 2008. What makes you think he will? You know he's not capable of it. I don't understand why you a few others keep treating him as if he's a trusted, valuable member of this community. He is no such thing, and only turns around and posts unwarranted personal attacks against you and the others time and time again. Why do we need that? What do you gain by CONSTANTLY feeding his ego? Every conversation you have with him only encourages him to have a similar conversation tomorrow and the next day. It only furthers his justifications for his despicable actions here. |
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| (596462) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:18:23 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:28:56 2008. The ultimate reason why the timers at TSQ are in place:Why wouldn't the southernmost stop signal, if disobeyed, be enforced to engage the emergency brakes on the train? Only if there weren't enough room to stop would there be a problem, in which case all these years there has been unsafe operation, by your standard, no? |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:18:33 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 11:13:47 2008. I honestly don't know. I haven't been down that way in several years. I don't even know if any kind of work has started down there yet.I'm guessing that the tail tracks have been removed from service. Whether anything is going on down there I can't answer. I'll ask around. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 20:21:10 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:28:56 2008. Why is there no third rail power beyond that point? |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 20:23:13 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 20:21:10 2008. I guess because maybe they are OOS because of 7 extension construction. So that's why there's a new timer? That would make sense.This also means the ToMC on Tuesday can't wait back there for the appointed time. It will have to come in to the station from the east, load up, and pull out. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Apr 6 20:26:54 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 09:57:06 2008. Ron, you seem like a lost, broken soul. You cannot think for yourself, you have no conscience. You think everything those idiotic managers do is justifiable. They are justifiable to the idiotic, dead self, but NOT to HUMANITY.If they had random cavity checks at each station, and the managers or whomever said "it is for your safety", would you go along? I HOPE you wouldn't, and stand against any imbecil who attempts to do that for "your safety." Ron, help yourself. Back on topic, those timers are justifiable to dead self in order "to prevent overruns." To the core of humanity, however, there IS NO JUSTIFICATION. THINK. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:28:49 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:18:33 2008. Thanks. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:29:50 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by G1Ravage on Sun Apr 6 14:12:36 2008. For all intents and purposes, Times Square can now be treated as a station that endes in a bumper block and has been signalled accordingly. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:30:09 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:18:23 2008. Only if there weren't enough room to stop would there be a problem, in which case all these years there has been unsafe operation, by your standard, no?The last part is incorrect, so I have to delete it. So it should read: "Only if there weren't enough room to stop would there be a problem, no?" |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 6 20:34:18 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 6 09:50:57 2008. Nah ... more skree, less nee-wop. I take it you've never conversed through one of those token booth portholes? Heh. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:41:49 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:18:23 2008. "Why wouldn't the southernmost stop signal, if disobeyed, be enforced to engage the emergency brakes on the train? Only if there weren't enough room to stop would there be a problem, in which case all these years there has been unsafe operation, by your standard, no?"Because you don't want to rely on that. A BIE application causes discomfort to passengers and flat spots on wheels, especially if a train were to hot-dog it into a station. So the TA figures it's better to slow the train down a little sooner. I'm glad he put up that photo, obviously. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:42:03 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:29:50 2008. For all intents and purposes, Times Square can now be treated as a station that endes in a bumper blockOh, I think I see now - it's not just that the tracks aren't electrified but also that there is work going on there - that's the thinking? |
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| (596488) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:42:05 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:28:56 2008. Thanks for the photo. |
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| (596489) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:44:05 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Apr 6 20:26:54 2008. Pay attention Ron! If Journal Square-K-Car says you have a problem (and he should know about emotional problems), then it MUST BE TRUE. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:45:04 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Apr 6 20:26:54 2008. "If they had random cavity checks at each station, and the managers or whomever said "it is for your safety", would you go along?"In your case, I'd volunteer to show them how to use the endoscope on you. 8-) |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:46:31 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:28:49 2008. After seeing the picture in this thread that showed the sign saying end of signal control at the south end of TSQ, that tells me that some kind of work has already begun. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 20:47:45 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:46:31 2008. Does that mean they took out that old BMT signal S/O 5th Avenue |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:48:42 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:42:03 2008. Yep. That's it. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:49:49 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:46:31 2008. I would agree with that.This is good news. Who wants just idle talk about the 7 extension? We want actual work! We want to see digging and drilling and blasting and concrete pouring... |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:50:17 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:41:49 2008. Because you don't want to rely on that. A BIE application causes discomfort to passengers and flat spots on wheels, especially if a train were to hot-dog it into a station. So the TA figures it's better to slow the train down a little sooner.I don't think that would be the reasoning, because it doesn't much make sense, since the penalty brake application for disobeying a red signal - including a timed red signal - is emergency braking. The reasoning which makes more sense is that there will be work going on on the tail tracks, so it would be hazardous for a train to run through there. So, effectively, there aren't tail tracks, and Times Sq becomes an inefficient terminal for that reason. Well, it's a better reason, if the work turns out to be necessary. Hopefully it is completed ASAP so as to minimize impact on service, and restoration of the tail tracks to their original function can ensue. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:52:00 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:45:04 2008. In your case, I'd volunteer to show them how to use the endoscope on you.I didn't realize you were into THAT sort of thing.... Well, we've had too much talk of penetration lately on this forum.... |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:52:00 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:50:17 2008. I reread my previous answer and realized I was considering the eastern part of the station, not the west (south). So please disregard my answer. Your answer just now is correct. |
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| (596504) | |
Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:54:46 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 20:47:45 2008. Are you talking about the one on the southbound track? I'm guessing they did. I believe the Times Square interlocking was overhauled. I assume the old signals were removed and new ones were put in. I also assume that a new model board and interlocking machine was installed in the dispatcher's office. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets the woman shortage (NSFW) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:54:53 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 6 20:52:00 2008. Or is it a shortage of suitable candidates? |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 20:56:44 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 20:54:46 2008. Yes, was a black case with 2 lenses and a possible "K" IIRC right? |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Apr 6 20:58:53 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 6 20:45:04 2008. More is the pitty now, Ron. I can only truly hope for you. Hopefully the negative personality in many of your posts is an act. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 21:01:25 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 20:56:44 2008. Yep. 2 lenses, but I never saw a (K) on it.Were/are some of those same types of signals on the Grand Central Shuttle? |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 21:04:44 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by MJF on Sun Apr 6 21:01:25 2008. I broke in on the Shuttle in 92I last rode the shuttle in 92 I really don't remember, sorry |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sun Apr 6 21:45:06 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 14:33:10 2008. Private contractors are flagged by RTO Construction Flaggers; Signal Maintainers are flagged by Signals personnel; Track workers are flagged by Track personnel.Based on my experiences, Signals and Track should never be allowed to flag because they rarely get it right. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Apr 6 22:02:27 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Apr 6 20:58:53 2008. Hopefully the negative personality in many of your posts is an act as well. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sun Apr 6 22:18:04 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Alex L. on Sun Apr 6 21:45:06 2008. Based on my experiences, Signals and Track should never be allowed to flag because they rarely get it right.TRUTH!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Apr 6 22:58:56 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 6 14:50:48 2008. Money talk, BS walks. TA lets the bad press pass over then they are back to business every time |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 7 03:25:32 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 6 19:28:56 2008. That's new! Thanks for the pic.That confirms that the tail tracks are officially OOS. |
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Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder) |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 7 03:35:48 2008, in response to Re: And the (7) line gets a little slower....(and louder), posted by Forest Glen on Sun Apr 6 18:11:41 2008. Did you even read the thread? It's been answered. |
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