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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:53:04 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:59:22 2008. Yes we have. People are traveling to Howard Beach for the AirTrain because the airport is located RIGHT THERE! That's why people don't go to Pelham Bay Park for the AirTrain. In that case, the Subway has done its job bringing people onto the Airport property. In the case of the Airtrain, the people arrive by subway, LIRR or other means miles from the airport and the AirTrain has to get them to the Airport property before it can even get them to their terminal. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:55:15 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:01:32 2008. Trainsarefun didn't say the fence is the enforcement, he said the CHARGE or TOLL is the enforcement.And yes, the fence is necessary to prevent people from avoiding the TOLL. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:59:55 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:04:24 2008. Your response does not address my post at all. Instead all you are doing is repeating nearly verbatim the post to which I responded.What's good for the goose is good for the gander: The distance between HB and Lefferts does not justify a $5 fare given that the fare for riding the much longer distance from Lefferts to Federal Circle and beyond to the terminals is nothing. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 06:39:26 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 17:34:03 2008. So? How does that justify a fare? They were going to build it to the parking lot anyhow. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:45:01 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 06:39:26 2008. Yes, but not that station, and certiainly not in the out of the way inconvenient far corner of the parking lot locatiojn the HB AirTrain station is in. They didn't need that station, and certainly not there, it was only built because of the connection to the NYCT station. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:46:35 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:59:55 2008. Your response does not address my post at all. Instead all you are doing is repeating nearly verbatim the post to which I responded.Right, because I agree to the post you responded to. Your response is nothing new either. Neither side is presenting ANYTHING new, so I don't know why we all continue this conversation. We are all gluttons for punishment. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:49:41 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:41:20 2008. Terrapin, I and others on our side have no choice but to respond to them with the points we've already made on those issues. Maybe if more of our arguments could be countered with new material.Yes, and the opposition has also made their points to the about 5 or maybe 6 people on Subchat that feel this way about airtrain. Neither side presented anything more valid that the other, except in their own minds. Sorry. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:50:40 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:33:20 2008. Because I too am responding to a broken record. I don't accept your responses on this topic any more than you accept mine. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by JohnL on Fri Feb 29 08:59:24 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 03:36:01 2008. It depends on how you do the accounting. If you look at AirTrain in isolation, then $5 could be around the sweet spot. If you look at total costs (not all of which are necessarily borne by the PA), I could posit $0 because of savings in road maintenance, delay/removal of necessity to upgrade the various roads around the airport to cope with additional demand, time savings for those stuck in traffic, etc, etc.Which is why I have always thought that AirTrains should be priced very attractively to get people out of cars! |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:15:02 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by JohnL on Fri Feb 29 08:59:24 2008. Which is why I have always thought that AirTrains should be priced very attractively to get people out of cars!And it is! It's far cheaper than most of the other options of getting to the airport. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 09:34:40 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:15:02 2008. And faster! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:46:18 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:15:02 2008. But it takes a lot longer. Driving is much faster. But if HB AirTrain were free as it should be, I'd consider using it. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:47:37 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:45:01 2008. Again, I ask how that justifies a fare? They didn't build the station JUST so they could collect a fare. They built it because it made sense. What doesn't make sense is the fare. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:49:12 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:49:41 2008. No, we presented a very valid point. HB AirTrain is a free circulator. There should be no fare. There is no fare at any other free circulator. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:49:56 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:50:40 2008. We we've said why we don't accept yours. But you haven't said why you don't accept ours. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:50:10 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:50:40 2008. But we've said why we don't accept yours. But you haven't said why you don't accept ours. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:51:52 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:50:10 2008. I HAVE said why. Gave many reasons why the PA charges a fare there. Click "view flat". |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:56:05 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:49:12 2008. No, we presented a very valid point.Yes, about 5 or 6 Subchatters (we, lol) provided a point. No, I don't find them valid. HB AirTrain is a free circulator. Yes, to the parking lots, it was explained the ONLY reason why it was extended further to HB NYCT, certainly not because it was needed for the parking lot, and even if it was necessary to have two stations in the lot, they certainly wouldn't have built it there in that out of the way location if not for the HB NYCT station. There should be no fare. Says who? 5 or 6 Subchatters that have a problem with it (a severe problem I might add). There is no fare at any other free circulator. Even if that's true, and it may, what does that have to do with anything? And again, the only reason they went to the expense of extending the "circulator" past the Long Term parking lot station is because of the NYCT connection. NOT because it was needed for "the circulator". |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:57:32 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:55:15 2008. You mean FARE. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:59:49 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:46:18 2008. It is a lot longer to take the LIRR (or subway) to Jamaica too than driving, yet it's used all the time, $5 or not.But if HB AirTrain were free as it should be, I'd consider using it. Oh please. $5 is not going to stop anyone that doesn't want to take a car. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:00:54 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:51:52 2008. Click "view flat".This reminds me of how while the earth's surface is curved, it's so damn big that living so close to it, we generally don't appreciate that fact. Good to see that the blood isn't spurting out of your ears yet in the course of responding. :) |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:03:20 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:47:37 2008. They didn't build the station JUST so they could collect a fare. They built it because it made sense.No, I said they wouldn't have built that station for their "free circulator" in THAT LOCATION. You were using the argument that it's a "free circulator". If that is true, again, they wouldn't have built THAT station for their free circulator in THAT LOCATION if that's all it was. OBVIOUSLY, it's MORE than a free circulator, as they wouldn't have built that station and rest of that line if not for the connection to the HB NYCT station. They built it because it made sense. Of course it did. But then it's not "just" a "free circulator". What doesn't make sense is the fare. ...to about 5 or 6 people on SubChat. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:04:05 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:59:49 2008. $5 is not going to stop anyone that doesn't want to take a car.Correct. As can be observed everyday, actually. Now, if you ask me, 'Well, wouldn't it be nice if they charged less?' Well, sure. It would be nice if LIRR, NYCT, NJT, AMTK, and all the rest charged less too. It would be great if gasoline didn't cost so much to purchase, etc. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:04:23 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:51:52 2008. No, you didn't. You GUESSED as to why the PA may justify the fare. But that doesn't make it RIGHT. I'm not arguing that the PA does not want to charge a fare. I'm arguing that it should NOT be charging a fare. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:04:37 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:00:54 2008. ...nah, it's all good. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:06:10 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:04:23 2008. I'm arguing that it should NOT be charging a fare.That's all well and good, but in YOUR mind, (and perhaps 4 or 5 other SubChatters minds), those are valid reasons. That is a matter of opinion. It's not fact, it's all debatable. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:08:03 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:04:23 2008. I'm arguing that it should NOT be charging a fare.And how will this dispute be resolved? Answer: for the disputants here, it can't be resolved. Not to mention, I thought you said that Airtrain didn't charge a 'fare'. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:08:04 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:04:05 2008. Now, if you ask me, 'Well, wouldn't it be nice if they charged less?' Well, sure. It would be nice if LIRR, NYCT, NJT, AMTK, and all the rest charged less too. It would be great if gasoline didn't cost so much to purchase, etc.Exaaaaaaaactly. Ask anyone about anything they are paying for if they would rather it be free or at least less, and 100% will say yes....for ANY situation where money is involved. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:09:36 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:56:05 2008. Yes, about 5 or 6 Subchatters (we, lol) provided a point. No, I don't find them valid.Even less support your point. Yes, to the parking lots, it was explained the ONLY reason why it was extended further to HB NYCT, certainly not because it was needed for the parking lot, and even if it was necessary to have two stations in the lot, they certainly wouldn't have built it there in that out of the way location if not for the HB NYCT station. The NYCT station is adjacent to the parking lot. The "extension" was tiny in the grand scheme of things. That does not justify a fare! Says who? 5 or 6 Subchatters that have a problem with it (a severe problem I might add). Uh, logic? Free circulators don't charge fares. Period. There's no reason this one should. Even if that's true, and it may, what does that have to do with anything? Everything! It makes it not right. It makes it a scam, a sham, a cheat, etc. And BAD TRANSPORTATION POLICY. And again, the only reason they went to the expense of extending the "circulator" past the Long Term parking lot station is because of the NYCT connection. NOT because it was needed for "the circulator". Hahahaahahahha, expense! And the fares DO NOT cover the cost of building it. Only running it! Building costs came from the tax on tickets. And running the extra few feet to the final station does not cost $5! It is infinitesimal compared to running from Fed Circle to Jamaica. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:10:02 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:08:03 2008. Answer: for the disputants here, it can't be resolved.I said that a week ago, and about 100 responses ago. My mind is not changing on this. No one has presented anything new in this thread, and it's no different than when this topic came up a week ago....a month ago....a year ago....a few years ago. Same deadlock. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 29 10:12:16 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:10:02 2008. Just add it to the list, 76th Street, etc...your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:12:52 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:04:05 2008. No, you are wrong. There's no reason for LIRR, NYCT, NJT, AMTK to charge less. They are providing vital services and are underfunded.HB AirTrain is totally different. It is not vital. It is not even necessary. And it doesn't provide any great service. And it is a few feet past the other station. And a lot of the people who get on there don't pay the fare! And it makes taking a cab a lot more inviting. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:14:01 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 09:57:32 2008. No, it is a NYCT subway customer pedestrian toll. If it was a fare, EVERYONE would pay it at the fare gate. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:16:02 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:03:20 2008. No, I said they wouldn't have built that station for their "free circulator" in THAT LOCATION. You were using the argument that it's a "free circulator". If that is true, again, they wouldn't have built THAT station for their free circulator in THAT LOCATION if that's all it was. OBVIOUSLY, it's MORE than a free circulator, as they wouldn't have built that station and rest of that line if not for the connection to the HB NYCT station.People on airport property board the free circulator for free at the Howard Beach station! That makes it part of the circulator! Of course it did. But then it's not "just" a "free circulator". Yes it is! It does nothing more than circulate people within the property! ..to about 5 or 6 people on SubChat. Even less support your position. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:17:25 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:06:10 2008. Of course it is debatable. But I am presenting facts. Such as no free circulator charges a fare. And no airport charges people to walk onto the property from an adjacent transit station! What gives JFK the right to be different? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:17:29 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:12:52 2008. There's no reason for LIRR, NYCT, NJT, AMTK to charge less. They are providing vital services and are underfunded.HB AirTrain is totally different. It is not vital. It is not even necessary. And it doesn't provide any great service. Plenty of blowhards consider those railroads to be not vital and not necessary. You will argue with them how? Fact is: very little in life is actually vital or necessary. Nutrients, shelter, healthcare, a certain amount of contact with other humans, etc. You really don't want to start down that road, or we're back envying the lives of our non-Homo sapiens ancestors. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:18:09 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:09:36 2008. Even less support your point.That's a matter of opinion. Most people wouldn't touch this topic if it was the last topic ever on SubChat. And the many people that use airtrain more than prove the point. I have never seen one article ANYWHERE EVER with any such claims as put forth here. The "extension" was tiny in the grand scheme of things. That does not justify a fare! It also doesn't explain spending the money to even built that extension and station to Howard Beach. It also shows it's more than "just a circulator", as that stretch is far from necessary for the "circulator". Uh, logic? Free circulators don't charge fares. Period. There's no reason this one should. See point above. It makes it a scam, a sham, a cheat, etc. Oh please. And BAD TRANSPORTATION POLICY. That's complete opinion. I find the connection (beyond their circulator) to Howard Beach (a station that is not at all necessary for the "free circulator") to be a great transportation connection and great that it was done, so that is good policy if the alternative would be just a "free circulator" through the terminals and parking lot, not connecting to the NYCT station. And the fares DO NOT cover the cost of building it. Only running it! Correct. So? They used a tax on airline tickets to built it. The operation of that leg requires revenue. They wouldnt have made that connection if not for the hope of revenue from it. The same could have been done with unreliable buses from the Long term lot and HB to Federal circle, but that would have been an inferior system, in which less people would use HB than now. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:18:24 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:08:03 2008. Huh? I'm open to all discussion. My mind can, has, and will be changed when presented with the best argument. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:19:45 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:17:29 2008. Plenty of blowhards consider those railroads to be not vital and not necessary.They are idiots. There's no way all those people could get to jobs in NYC or elsewhere without the railroads. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 10:29:52 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:59:55 2008. "The distance between HB and Lefferts does not justify a $5 fare given that the fare for riding the much longer distance from Lefferts to Federal Circle and beyond to the terminals is nothing."That's your personal judgment, to which of course you are entitled. The Port Authority is within its rights to disagree; customers who pay $5 to usae Howard Beach's AirTrain branch will obviously disagree with you as well. The number of people paying to use AirTrain at Howard Beach reflects the degree to which that disagreement with you brings revenue to the PA... |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 10:31:36 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:47:37 2008. It might justify a fare but it does not justify a $5 fare. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:32:50 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:18:09 2008. That's a matter of opinion. Most people wouldn't touch this topic if it was the last topic ever on SubChat.Your "5 or 6" figure is only people who have responded in this thread. And even less have responded supporting your point. It also doesn't explain spending the money to even built that extension and station to Howard Beach. The fares cover operations, and not the building of it, AFAIK. It also shows it's more than "just a circulator", as that stretch is far from necessary for the "circulator". Your theory seems to be that if they didn't build the HB station, they would let people walk in to the parking lot for free from the (A) and then walk to the parking lot station and board the free circulator for free. I think they would still charge the $5 pedestrian toll. So the $5 is not at all dependent on the cost of building or running the extension. Correct. So? They used a tax on airline tickets to built it. Thank you! The operation of that leg requires revenue. They wouldnt have made that connection if not for the hope of revenue from it. The same could have been done with unreliable buses from the Long term lot and HB to Federal circle, but that would have been an inferior system, in which less people would use HB than now. No, it does NOT require revenue! All free circulators are FREE! They do not directly bring in revenue via fares! If there was no A station there, they still would have built AirTrain to the parking lot! |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:33:03 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:18:09 2008. That's a matter of opinion. Most people wouldn't touch this topic if it was the last topic ever on SubChat.Your "5 or 6" figure is only people who have responded in this thread. And even less have responded supporting your point. It also doesn't explain spending the money to even built that extension and station to Howard Beach. The fares cover operations, and not the building of it, AFAIK. It also shows it's more than "just a circulator", as that stretch is far from necessary for the "circulator". Your theory seems to be that if they didn't build the HB station, they would let people walk in to the parking lot for free from the (A) and then walk to the parking lot station and board the free circulator for free. I think they would still charge the $5 pedestrian toll. So the $5 is not at all dependent on the cost of building or running the extension. Correct. So? They used a tax on airline tickets to built it. Thank you! The operation of that leg requires revenue. They wouldnt have made that connection if not for the hope of revenue from it. The same could have been done with unreliable buses from the Long term lot and HB to Federal circle, but that would have been an inferior system, in which less people would use HB than now. No, it does NOT require revenue! All free circulators are FREE! They do not directly bring in revenue via fares! If there was no A station there, they still would have built AirTrain to the parking lot! |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 10:41:30 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:03:20 2008. You can't prove that had they been somehow unable to charge a fare that they wouldn't have built a station there. Imagine the state legislature passed a law prohibiting just this very scenario before they ever started building the AirTrain. Do you think they would have stopped at Lefferts Boulevard and not built the stop at Howard Beach just because they couldn't collect a fee?...to about 5 or 6 people on SubChat. Yes, and many more. You have no evidence to show what the opinions of people outside of this thread are regarding this issue. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 10:45:22 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:46:35 2008. Right, because I agree to the post you responded to.And that post was another rehashing. There's no point coming up with different arguments to respond to the exact same points. Still no one has come up with a credible response to the point I made in this branch of the thread. Neither side is presenting ANYTHING new False. New issues were presented in this thread by people on BOTH sides. I don't know why we all continue this conversation. Answer for yourself first. I know why I continue. We are all gluttons for punishment. Maybe that's why you're continuing to participate in this thread, but not me. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 10:48:03 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 07:49:41 2008. Yes, and the opposition has also made their points to the about 5 or maybe 6 people on Subchat that feel this way about airtrain.And we have responded to those points. The ball is in your court. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 10:48:29 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 09:49:12 2008. There is no fare at any other free circulator.That's redundant. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 10:59:27 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:19:45 2008. OK, they are idiots. That's nice.But why are they wrong? Just the same as you respond that the Howard Beach Branch of Airtrain isn't vital or necessary, they aregue the same as to all rail service. There's no way all those people could get to jobs in NYC or elsewhere without the railroads. I just happen to have a bunch of blowhards to consult. They tell me that you're wrong because people could still get to their jobs. They add, just as people could get to JFK Airport even if there were no Airtrain. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 11:07:14 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 29 10:33:03 2008. All free circulators are FREE! They do not directly bring in revenue via fares! If there was no A station there, they still would have built AirTrain to the parking lot!Yes, but they would not have built that useless (to the parking lot) station all the way to that far corner of the parking lot had it not been for the connection to HB. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 11:08:06 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 10:18:09 2008. That's a matter of opinion.And yet you see no problem posting your idea that there are only 5 or 6 of us who are opposed to the fee. Most people wouldn't touch this topic if it was [sic] the last topic ever on SubChat. Yes, and those people may agree with us or with you, you don't know, so don't say "5 or 6 people." I have never seen one article ANYWHERE EVER with any such claims as put forth here. Doesn't mean that one was never published. I'm sure there was. But I won't look it up because the popularity of an idea does not establish whether that idea be valid. That's complete opinion. I find the connection (beyond their circulator) to Howard Beach (a station that is not at all necessary for the "free circulator") to be a great transportation connection and great that it was done, so that is good policy if the alternative would be just a "free circulator" through the terminals and parking lot, not connecting to the NYCT station. Great connection or not does not justify the $5 fee when most of the rest of the AirTrain system does not charge any fee. Correct. So? They used a tax on airline tickets to built it. The operation of that leg requires revenue. False. They are able to operate the rest of the system without getting any revenue directly from the passengers. This branch is no different. It costs only slightly more to operate than a branch ending at Lefferts Blvd. They wouldnt [sic] have made that connection if not for the hope of revenue from it. That short extension does not cost $5. If it did, then that means operation of the AirTrain is so expensive that the extra $5 for that section is meaningless. More likely, the cost covers a greater proportion of the passenger's ride, so in effect, the passenger paying the $5 fee is subsidizing a passenger who is not. In this case, that is BAD TRANSPORTATION POLICY. Why are subway passengers singled out for subsidizing the system? The same could have been done with unreliable buses from the Long term lot and HB to Federal circle, but that would have been an inferior system, in which less people would use HB than now. If that were done it would be equally bad policy. |
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