My LA Metro rides today

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My LA Metro rides today
Posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 01:10:29 2023 In a word, yuck. I'm in LA, piggybacking on my wife's conference, so she's working and I'm free all day, and staying in Marina del Rey. As I've always thought about LA it is a huge city, bigger than NY area wise, and nothing is ever close together. I thought I'd be close enough to Santa Monica to walk there.. WRONG! Well I could but then I'd be too tired to do the rest of the touring around. In any case I probably walked about 10 miles today. I Uber'ed to the Santa Monica Metro station at the end of the E line and took it downtown. This line is mostly surface, off-street running light rail but with lots of intersections. It took an hour to get downtown, where I got off at the Arts station to go to the Broad museum and the Grand Central Market. But there are so many homeless people and drug addicts on the train it is unpleasant. Much more than in NYC. After spending a fair amount of time downtown I decided to go to Hollywood and see if I can get in to see Jimmy Kimmel so I took the B line (orange bullet B line, now where does that sound familiar?) to the station directly across the street to wait in line but I didn't get in. The B is the old Red Line and uses 3rd rail. I walked around Hollywood Blvd for a little while and decided that if I want to see that I'll got to Times Square instead. I got back on the Metro at 4:17, changed trains downtown and went back to Santa Monica. It took an hour and a half even though the train going back seemed to avoid stopping at intersections. I don't understand the payment system either. I had to prepay even to use my phone to tap. Why not just debit the account directly upon use like OMNY does? Not a big problem though. And you have to tap to transfer between some of the lines but not the others. If you are on a D line train it is same platform to the B line, but to go from the B line to the E line you are supposed to tap again even though you don't get charged. Unlike NYC, London, Paris, Chicago, and just about every other place where there's a subway/Metro/Tube or whatever they call it locally, Angelenos don't ride it as a regular part of their lives. Given how big the city is, it just doesn't connect up enough to be worthwhile, even with a major freeway out of service. Everybody drives, even with all that traffic. I have a few pics but those'll have to wait until tomorrow.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Fri Nov 17 06:35:01 2023, in response to My LA Metro rides today, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 01:10:29 2023.* When you have that much sprawl, it's hard for any mode of transport to be effective, and as you hinted, that often comes to include the automobile.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Fri Nov 17 09:58:51 2023, in response to My LA Metro rides today, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 01:10:29 2023.* Nice report. The situation of having drug addicts on the train and in stations has improved tremendously in the last several months. Be glad that you weren't here earlier this year or last year. The E line (formerly Expo) was built on the cheap when there wasn't as much money for rail. The elevated stations don't even have escalators, just stairs and elevators. It has tons of grade crossings. Mostly near downtown and in South LA. Not so much in wealthier areas. There are quite a few projects coming up that will help with connectivity. The under construction D line extension is a big one. The issue is that metro is a county agency and LA County is huge. Metro has to spend money proportionately throughout the county so areas that would support rail aren't always the first to get it. Check back in 20 years. Lol
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Fri Nov 17 10:21:37 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Nov 17 06:35:01 2023.* Depending on what you mean by sprawl, LA may sprawl the least of any city. It's really just huge. Trains can work here, they just haven't been built yet.
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A few pics
Posted by zac* on Fri Nov 17 23:36:06 2023, in response to My LA Metro rides today, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 01:10:29 2023.* I didn't take many but here they are: The Santa Monica station with the waiting E line light rail train. The two guys walking up ahead were the TOs: The Civic Center station on the B/D line: B line train entering the station: Does this train go to Newkirk Plaza?
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 01:03:39 2023, in response to A few pics, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 23:36:06 2023.* I like the civic center pic with the guy on the platform checking out the people hanging from the ceiling.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by heypaul* on Sat Nov 18 07:35:56 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 01:03:39 2023.* Wow, LA Metro artwork is weird
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Sat Nov 18 08:31:56 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Fri Nov 17 10:21:37 2023.* When this is what I get after typing Los Angeles into Google Maps and just zooming in aiming for the geographic-center, I'd call it sprawl. This is the geographic-center of America's 2nd largest city? Too many detached one-family homes that you'd expect to find in the surrounding areas (though the couple of mid-rise buildings in view from that position are noted). It's hard to run city-like public transit here. Too many extra blocks / miles before the bus/train gets full.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by ntrainride* on Sat Nov 18 08:36:11 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 18 08:31:56 2023.* nyc is the best place for a local rail transit system that people can actually live their lives around.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Sat Nov 18 09:13:37 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 18 08:36:11 2023.* In the US, I agree. I used WMATA recently though and it's also up there, with both local airports now having direct subway stations. But WMATA has faults and inconveniences that NYC doesn't, and of course Washington is a much smaller city.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Sat Nov 18 09:17:33 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 18 09:13:37 2023.* Add on, I'd say Chicago has its rail-transport quality closest to NYC with regard to the USA.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by ntrainride* on Sat Nov 18 10:16:10 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 18 09:17:33 2023.* hip to that. truth is, there are hundreds of places in this country where it is, indeed, possible to live without a car. down in florida there are many very well run bus systems that a person could get around fairly easily and conveniently. and that goes for almost every state. just that new york does it the best.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Sat Nov 18 10:39:30 2023, in response to A few pics, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 23:36:06 2023.* Weird to see other cities using letter bullets. I thought LA used colors.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by AlM* on Sat Nov 18 10:52:08 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 18 10:39:30 2023.* Weird to see other cities using letter bullets. San Francisco too, of course. Boston to distinguish the different Green lines (or at least they used to).
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Re: A few pics
Posted by chicagoMotorman* on Sat Nov 18 10:59:05 2023, in response to A few pics, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 23:36:06 2023.* Nice pics, but the term T/O is a New York term. I don't think it's used anywhere else.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by zac* on Sat Nov 18 12:05:33 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 18 10:39:30 2023.* they did but their plans will run out of distinguishable colors.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 12:41:04 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 18 08:31:56 2023.* I think that pollution centers are more important than geographic centers and LA is very densely populated. The city limits are large and irregular and there's a mountain range in the middle, so the city limit density isn't high. But central LA and Hollywood have over 900,000 people in 50 square miles. Nowhere else in the US outside NYC has more. LA doesn't have an equivalent for Manhattan or the Loop but it's still denser than those cities once you get into the suburbs. Overall it has more people in less space than anywhere in the US, including NYC. That's why one might say the it sprawls the least.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 12:42:46 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 18 08:36:11 2023.* It has the best in America but it's very Manhattan-centric, which is unfortunately at the eastern end of the city.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 12:57:25 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by zac on Sat Nov 18 12:05:33 2023.* Mostly because basic colors that are sometimes used to describe people (black, brown, white, and maybe even yellow based on Atlanta's fiasco) are off the table. Not using black may make sense given that bus lines appear black on the overall map.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 13:10:30 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by zac on Sat Nov 18 12:05:33 2023.* Mostly because basic colors that are sometimes used to describe people (black, brown, white, and maybe even yellow based on Atlanta's fiasco) are off the table. Not using black may make sense given that bus lines appear black on the overall map.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat Nov 18 13:18:12 2023, in response to My LA Metro rides today, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 01:10:29 2023.* The B is red, though. They kept the same colors when they adopted the letters.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat Nov 18 13:30:04 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 18 08:31:56 2023.* If you did that same thing to New York, you'd end up in the middle of the harbor. This the geographic-center of America's largest city? Too much water that you'd expect to find in the middle of the ocean. It's hard to run city-like public transit here. Too little dry land for buses/trains.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 13:35:27 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 12:41:04 2023.* Overall it has more people in less space than anywhere in the US, including NYC. What I should have said was that LA's metro area is denser than any other MSA, including NYC.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat Nov 18 13:36:18 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 18 13:30:04 2023.* This is the location of the official NYC geographic center marker. It's in the middle of what Urban Planning Twitter calls a "stroad." and is right next to a cemetery and a standalone KFC. The geographic center of the densest large city in the US. Even denser than Gaza which is supposedly unlivable. This is why geographic centers are meaningless.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 13:41:17 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 18 13:36:18 2023.* There are a few articles saying that's wrong and that it's actually in Bushwick. LA's geographic center isn't even in the city of Los Angeles. It's in Beverly Hills in the mountains. https://maps.app.goo.gl/tcFNJGALgh4cj3yh8?g_st=ic
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat Nov 18 14:05:17 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 13:41:17 2023.* The magic of enclaves. Beverly Hills is the Lesotho of LA.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Sat Nov 18 14:22:07 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 13:41:17 2023.* NICE
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 14:27:28 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 18 14:05:17 2023.* 😂
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by AlM* on Sat Nov 18 15:23:30 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 13:35:27 2023.* The LA MSA may be denser than the NYC-Newark MSA. But the LA MSA is much more compact and excludes much more of the outlying area. The NYC-Newark MSA goes all the way to Putnam County and Montauk Point, and includes half of New Jersey.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 15:26:56 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 18 15:23:30 2023.* But the LA MSA is much more compact Exactly my point. 😉
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Re: A few pics
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Sat Nov 18 15:29:34 2023, in response to A few pics, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 23:36:06 2023.* GOOD LOS ANGELES METRO PICS LOAD SOME MORE I WILL BE GOING OUT THERE SOON RE TAKE THE CONNECTOR PHOTOS
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Re: A few pics
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Sat Nov 18 15:29:38 2023, in response to A few pics, posted by zac on Fri Nov 17 23:36:06 2023.* GOOD LOS ANGELES METRO PICS LOAD SOME MORE I WILL BE GOING OUT THERE SOON RE TAKE THE CONNECTOR PHOTOS
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by AlM* on Sat Nov 18 15:48:44 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 15:26:56 2023.* OK, fine. But it is more compact because of a decision by some government statistician. Lots of people commute to LA from the San Bernardino, Riverside, and Ventura SMAs, don't they? Very few people commute to NYC from outside the MSA, except from Stamford.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 15:50:27 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Sat Nov 18 15:29:38 2023.* What do you think of the new connector stations? I think that they're pretty impressive for light rail. And I like that the fare control is up top instead of on the mezzanine.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 15:59:45 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 18 15:48:44 2023.* Yeah, that's why I put a winky. It's some quirk of how the statistics work. Like how Raleigh and Durham are separate MSA's even though the cities border each other. Still my point is that the LA area is very dense. It's denser at the core than anywhere in the US outside NYC and denser overall than everywhere in the US.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sat Nov 18 16:22:04 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Nov 18 10:39:30 2023.* Denver uses both colors and letters, but it has become common practice to refer to rail lines by their letter marking.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Nov 18 16:36:27 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 18 16:22:04 2023.* Given how long numbering, letters, color schemes have been employed by various transit operations, you would think agencies did not have to keep changing them. Of course there is always the problem of a new honcho who needs to "mark" the agency with a new improvd system spending cash on new signage on the equipment the stations rtc instead of better service. "new boss same as the old boss, won't get fooled again" (Townsend).
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 16:47:09 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 12:57:25 2023.* Also, LA Metro gives colors to BRT which definitely confuses tourists.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Sat Nov 18 16:53:51 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 18 10:52:08 2023.* Boston pretty much has to now with the Green Line, as there are branches at both ends of the main trunk now. It's a system in and of itself now.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Nov 18 17:33:38 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 16:47:09 2023.* Well, one needs to remember that the Rapid Bus extension beyond North Hollywood was suppoed to be rail--but it was in an anti rail era so the tarmac was put down partially on a previous Pacific Electric ROW. LA had a real crisis after some stupid safety lapses building the first stretch of the Wilshire Subway. Poor procedures resulted in a methane explosuion killing workers. Henry Waxman got a subway ban passed which only was rescinded in the last few years.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Nov 18 17:36:11 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 18 16:53:51 2023.* Streetcar routes have tended have either numbers or letters for many years in cities where routes were widespread.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by AlM* on Sat Nov 18 17:45:35 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 15:59:45 2023.* I'm not willing to do all the data collection, but I strongly suspect that NYC + Nassau + western Suffolk + Bergen + Essex + Union + Hudson + Westchester + Rockland + Fairfield is quite a bit denser than LA + Orange Counties. The above area roughly corresponds to LA + Orange.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by zac* on Sat Nov 18 17:56:06 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 18 13:18:12 2023.* It isn't a deep red though. It definitely leans towards the orange on the color wheel.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 18:00:20 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by AlM on Sat Nov 18 17:45:35 2023.* Probably true, but neither metro stops there. NYC especially continues to sprawl. A good metric to look at is probably "urban area". That essentially measures metro size until it drops off to rural population densities. The size of the NYC urban area is about double the LA urban area size but it only has 50% more people. To me that means that it sprawls more. Others may disagree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by zac* on Sat Nov 18 18:05:11 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 18 14:05:17 2023.* Having driven through "Lesotho" today I think I'd like to move there. There's a bit of a problem though, the income of every subchatter combined couldn't buy a house there. Cool views of the San Fernando Valley though from Mulholland.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by zac* on Sat Nov 18 18:08:06 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 18 13:36:18 2023.* That looks like it is only the geographic center of the 4 boroughs. Staten Island would skew that further south and west I'd think. I could be wrong though, the computer models know better.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Sat Nov 18 18:11:17 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 15:50:27 2023.* I LIKE THEM GOING BACK SOON BACK TAKE SOME NEW PICS RE SET CAMERA
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by Easy* on Sat Nov 18 18:12:05 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by zac on Sat Nov 18 18:08:06 2023.* I think that you're probably correct.
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Re: A few pics
Posted by randyo* on Sun Nov 19 03:43:50 2023, in response to Re: A few pics, posted by chicagoMotorman on Sat Nov 18 10:59:05 2023.* Many systems use the generic term “operator” since as is the case with the Wash DC Metro, all operators start as bus operators and when they get enough seniority, can apply to be qualified to operate trains.
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Re: My LA Metro rides today
Posted by ntrainride* on Sun Nov 19 10:34:07 2023, in response to Re: My LA Metro rides today, posted by Easy on Sat Nov 18 12:42:46 2023.* always felt that for "local-citywide" public transit considerations, the five boros, including even staten island offer the best system in the country. you can live your life at unheralded levels of convenience using transit here. nowhere else comes close. boston, actually, is pretty decent too.
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