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| Re: Fulton Street Subway (1619528) | |
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| (1619682) | |
Re: Fulton Street Subway |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 2 19:07:14 2023, in response to Re: Fulton Street Subway, posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue May 2 18:57:20 2023. The point is misdirected enthusiasm. |
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| (1619687) | |
Re: Fulton Street Subway |
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Posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:26:20 2023, in response to Re: Fulton Street Subway, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 30 05:44:35 2023. As stated, a station at 76th Street is a convenient myth, as is the lost continent of Atlantis (Oceanic divergence of tectonic plates in the mid-Atlantic proves this fantasy).NYC was in no position financially to expand subways after the Second World War. NYC acquired the two private rail transit company's after they were effectively bankrupted by NYC's five cent fare campaign. With exception to the BMT that was able to not be in bankruptcy court as the the IRT in 1940. The unfortunate fact is, NYC viewed transportation from an early 20th century point of view when rail transportation actually did make money. However the port WW2 assension of the automobile, the Master Highway Planner Mosses, as well as the Interstate Highway construction program shifter the United States to a motor vehicle mobile society that bypassed traditional rail transportation modes of travel. Additionally, the lack of investment of new physical plant by private transit company's to their properties became the responsibility of NYC , a less than capable manager of most pay as you go entities. NYC contributed greatly to the transit mess it created, and has been unable to extract itself from the mess it had created. Along with Mismanagement, and institutional corruption it gives the facade of doing something for the commuting public. |
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| (1619688) | |
Re: Fulton Street Subway |
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Posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:27:47 2023, in response to Re: Fulton Street Subway, posted by zac on Sun Apr 30 11:59:45 2023. Typical construction style of the mid to late 1960's. |
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| (1619689) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue May 2 20:34:21 2023, in response to For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 2 12:21:53 2023. Or we get to work extending the subway and build the station if it isn't already there. Far more money has been wasted on far less useful projects. |
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| (1619690) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:45:16 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by randyo on Tue May 2 16:28:27 2023. I personally walked the A tracks from Euclid, past the RTO radio COMM Room, along A1 track to the concrete bench wall that is across all four tracks south of Euclid Avenue (A1 through A 4) under Pitkin Avenue. The last Emergency Exit is just north of the subway wide wall, and can be seen at street level adjacent to the parking lot next to the Grant Avenue Station house.The physical subway tunnel construction in the area where the last southbound Emergency Exist exists are wide between both local and express tracks in anticipation of meeting tracks A7/A8 yard lead tracks to/from Pitkin Yard. Why cinder blocks are across tunnel tracks A7/A8 are unknown, however construction past existing 1940's tunnel bulkheads is non existent. Foamer's love to delusion themselves with a prank that appears to rival the mythical continent of Atlantis. However, it makes good copy on this board considering the revolving topics have become recycled similar to Honeymooner reruns on TV. |
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| (1619692) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:48:48 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue May 2 20:34:21 2023. Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue May 2 20:34:21 2023, in response to For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 2 12:21:53 2023.Or we get to work extending the subway and build the station if it isn't already there. Far more money has been wasted on far less useful projects. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please explain, who are the "we" in your test? Do you work for MTA C&D? |
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| (1619704) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 3 02:48:28 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:48:48 2023. we the voting citizenry |
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| (1619705) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:28:05 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:45:16 2023. Several TA employees who didn’t know each other, now deceased, have reported the existence of a partially completed station shell at 76 St and all 3 described it exactly the same way. |
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| (1619706) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:32:15 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue May 2 17:24:15 2023. That’s the way I found it when I went there the first time in 1962 and the rails and homeballs protecting where the switches had been were still there but the switches had been removed although the homeballs and stop arms were fully functional. The next time I went therein 1983, the cinder block walls were in place and the reails that were there before had also been removed. |
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| (1619707) | |
Re: Fulton Street Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:43:19 2023, in response to Re: Fulton Street Subway, posted by Handbrake on Tue May 2 20:26:20 2023. One thing yo fail to realize is that the infrastructure S/O Rockaway Ave all the way the S/O Euclid was built prior to WWII but lay uncompleted till after the war. Bway ENY had station finish and possibly rails but no signals so service had to terminate at Rockaway Av till after the war. |
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| (1619708) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:46:38 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue May 2 20:34:21 2023. One of the reasons that the subway infrastructure wasn’t built any farther is because due to the high water table in the area problems were encountered that precluded construction beyond what is there whether it is actually the rumored station at 76 St or not. |
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| (1619711) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by zac on Wed May 3 08:20:08 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:46:38 2023. That area doesn't drain very well. There's that spot called "The Hole" which has no exit for the water that pools there on the north side of Linden Blvd, and south of Linden is also like that. I once got stuck in that area when I dropped my daughter off at a friends house. Even the streets on the map don't go through because they end up under water all the time. The center of the Hole? 76th St. |
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| (1619712) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 3 08:25:33 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:28:05 2023. Which means exactly nothing. |
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| (1619726) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 3 12:35:29 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by randyo on Wed May 3 03:28:05 2023. I've read hundreds of posts about 76th street and I don't recall a single one where someone posted "This is what Joe Shmoe told me in 1960" (or whatever date). |
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| (1619769) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023, in response to [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun Apr 30 19:33:43 2023. Joe Cunningham very kindly sent me this, with his permission to post it here. Thanks to Joe. Any formatting problems are the result of my copying and pasting his text below.Facts vs. Rumor After some many years of questions on tours and in regard to books, I have decided to address some of the most common questions about NY rapid transit history and development. No.1 Always asked re; 76th Street station on the Liberty Avenue extension of the IND Fulton Street line. Fact: Something more has to be there. 1. The end of the tunnel is not part of the side walls and ceiling. Rather it is a concrete curtain wall of a different color and apparent age from the side walls. 2. The bench walls on each side are cut with the internal ceramic ducts hanging out of the ends. No one would ever end a bench wall in such a manner. 3. The track and third rail end unevenly, the bumping blocks appearing to be added components. 4. Most significant, A4 track has signals that face the wall. These are complete installations with associated stop mechanisms, insulated joints and pin bonds. Signal equipment was, and is, extremely expensive, no one would install signals that could be seen only by phantom trains coming out of inter-dimensional space through that wall. 5. While observations 1-4 are based on a visit with NYCTA staff in 1997, I was told by a formersignal maintainer in 1978 that he and others routinely entered through the yard portal to salvage unused signal relays and other components for use elsewhere. That was the first I ever heard of the alleged extension; thus, it did not make volume 3 of my book – in fact we were talking about IND signals at a shop where he was purchasing the newly published book. 6. I personally observed two yard leads that turned off into portals blocked with cinder block walls. The rails had been removed but the ties were still in place with spike holes and tie plate gouges where such had been installed. Clearly track had once existed precisely where the former signal maintainer had said that he and others had accessed the tunnel. Those were observed during a switching move of road trains around construction which required a relay move into the yard in the Spring of 1987. 7. In regard to the photograph of the GRS route interlocking machine at Euclid Avenue that shows the extension of the line, it is highly unlikely that a panel with a display of non-existent track would be built. For example. The installation of the US&S type UR (Union Route) route interlocking machine in the tower at Grand Central on the former northbound express track in 1959 left incomplete the section north of 86 th Street for which contracts had not yet been drawn even though the tracks at that point were in vital operation since 1918! The other portions of the board were activated as each zone was cut over. Only when the northern portion was contracted was the board equipped completely, that portion being equipped with components compatible with GRS NX (eNtrance-eXit) interlocking equipment; in fact, stenciled lettering indicates the different types of lamps required for the portions equipped by those respective companies. 8. Several former employees have told of a pump room accessed by door from the bench wall of the active yard lead that emerges from behind the wall of the Grant Avenue station. Located on the portion over and adjacent to the probable location of the trackage it is said to have a door on the opposite side that accesses the extension. Doors are more costly than concrete walls – again, money would not been spent on a useless door – this is after all not the legendary Winchester mansion! This door has not been observed personally. 9. On a survey of the street above in June 1980 new sidewalks were being poured and it appearedthere had been some covered gratings on an orientation that would have angled away from a direct plumb line – possibly a mezzanine or fare control area? If there is nothing there, why the effort to seal it so completely, with concrete curtain wall, double cinder block barriers at the yard portals and a sealed door in a pump room. The only possible explanation is rising water issues. It is said that there are remnants of water ways Conduit Blvd and Force Tube Avenue both refer to a network of former water courses in the general region. So where does it end? Probably nowhere unless there is someday a need to excavate the area for some future project. At this point I should like to remark on some recent comments on other issues. The author of a recent piece on the alleged extension also mentions the delay of the completion of the Nassau Street line of the BMT as being caused by engineering difficulties. While it is true that such required the use of manual excavation without blasting due to the narrow street and aged structures, the primary cause of the delay was that Mayor Hylan took office before the section contracts were signed and used his influence to prevent passage. The same was true of the eastern section of the 14th Street line when specifications were changed to a subway rather than an elevated line east of the Montrose Avenue station. In both instances contracts were signed immediately upon Hylan’s departure from office. An ingenious means of lowering cars into the Montrose Avenue station was devised to prevent loss of franchise but that is another story. Likewise, it was said that the BRT did not operate over the Brooklyn Bridge due to fees. While I have not seen documentation of such, it does not seem that there would be fees, as both the bridge and the subway tunnels were property of the city and the operating contract number 4 leases all needed city property to the New York Municipal Railway Co., the BRT’s subway operating company for the installation of equipment and operation of transit services. There are of course, exceptions. The BRT may have been charged an access fee into the Essex Street station as both the Williamsburg Bridge and the station terminal itself were constructed under the City Dept. of Plant & Structures. The so-called “Bridge Loop Lines” concept had been criticized harshly when proposed in 1905 as it did not access the lower Manhattan business center; the same issue experienced when the original Broadway route was relocated to Elm Street for the IRT and which ended at Brooklyn Bridge and City Hall loop. That required the Contract 2 extension to South Ferry (and Brooklyn). The Nassau Street line was developed to answer that need, and the concept of a Brooklyn Bridge access faded. The lower Manhattan loop concept was superseded by the need for more midtown access, that finally came to fruition in 1967 with the opening of the Chrystie Street connection to the Manhattan bridge and in 1968 to the Eastern lines. As for access to the Brooklyn Bridge, there were two primary technical issues. First is the severe grade of the ramp to the bridge itself. From a personal observation in 1996 on what would have been the Brooklyn Bound track, the grade is so great that it appears more stairway than ramp. Grades are the bane of any railway, especially when trailer cars were operated. The Steinway tunnel is one example. Trailer cars were not used through it. A similarly severe grade is found on the connector at 149th Street Mott Avenue. The southbound loop has a short steep climb out of the station to access the Lex-Jerome line. And of course, the Manhattan Bridge grades on the Manhattan side caused blown motors on opening day in 1915 and remained an issue. The other concern with the Brooklyn Bridge was the cars. Steel cars could not be used until the development of lightweight cars in the 1930s and even those were demonstration trips rather than regular service. The Dual Contracts of 1913 have clauses that specify that the equipment “shall be at least as good” as that operated in the existing line, and the objection to wood dated to the IRT consultant George Gibb’s grudging acceptance of wooden Composite cars in 1903, after numerous damage from collisions and fire the momentum for elimination from subways was building. Other Shibboleths and Unfounded Theories. It has been said that the Myrtle Avenue station at Flatbush Avenue was closed due to street widening. Why street widening should affect a subway route is unfathomable other than perhaps access stairways would need to be removed. In point of fact, the Myrtle Avenue station was closed for lack of patronage and because it would have been too close to the planned extension of the DeKalb Avenue station. The southbound platform was removed in 1959 to allow widening of the tunnel to permit an underpass that allowed the ‘H’ track on the southwesterly side of the bridge to access the bypass track without a grade crossing. The Manhattan Bridge-4th Avenue subway had been initiated under the poorly developed Triborough Plan of 1908. It was assumed that the “outer” tracks would connect to the H tracks while the inner or express tracks would connect to the northeasterly Bridge ‘A’ tracks and no underpass was needed on the southbound side. When structures were modified to “shoehorn” the tracks at Willoughby Street from the Montague Street tunnel and also the connection to the Brighton line, the result was a tangled connection. The revision began in 1956 and was completed in 1962. That involved adding two “outside” tracks south of DeKalb (A3 and A4) to eliminate the crossovers at the north end of the station. Overall, it was necessary to sacrifice the lightly used access of the Montage Street tunnel to the bypass tracks north of DeKalb and also the rarely used access of the bypass tracks to the Brighton line south of the DeKalb station. Only then could the station be extended for ten car trains and the restricted southern end of the platforms be closed. On the site of the old Myrtle Station southbound, the bypass was constructed by relocating the outside track to the location of the former platform. On the northbound side, and unused area was used in part to move the connection between the two tracks that merge to form Bridge track A4. That was done to permit ten car trains to clear the turnouts for Bridge track H2 while waiting for the merging switch to clear another train. It must be remembered that the BRT/BMT Dual Contracts stations constructed prior to 1920 had been planned for trains approximately 475’ long – ten IRT cars or seven 67’ cars. Short extensions were added in 1927 to allow operation of eight 67’ cars or four Triplex units. 42nd Street lower level Somehow a rumor started that the lower level of the 42nd Street station was built to block extension of the IRT Queens line. Beyond the fact that no such extension was ever contemplated in the era of private operation, the statement shows total misunderstanding of the methods and means of subway construction. Any program had to pass review by the Board of Estimate and other city regulatory bodies. Moreover, the IRT could not finish its existing lines, needed a fare increase and was saddled with Manhattan el losses. The purpose of the station platform was to discharge Queens trains at a time when travel to, and development in, Queens was light at the time of design in the early/mid 1920s. The trains would have relayed down to the center track at 33rd Street and returned north. By the time it opened in 1933, Queens had sufficient development to warrant 24 hour through operation. (F trains from Queens terminated at 34th Sixth Avenue on nights and weekends until November 1967) The platform was not completed with tile work until the early 1950s. That relay operation was used for Football Specials to the Polo Grounds from 179th Street in the 1950s. It was used subsequently as a boarding point for Rockaway Playland Specials 1956-8 and for Aqueduct race track Specials for decades. It was used for a while in the early 70s for rush hour E expresses. |
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| (1619796) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 7 04:37:48 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. With reference to the Dekalb area realignment, while the extensions of the Dekalb platforms north precluded access to the bypass from tunnel trains, the connections between the bypass tks and the Brighton Line could have been retained if the TA’s planners had been a little more imaginative. |
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| (1619797) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 7 04:43:06 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. With reference to the Dekalb area realignment, while the extensions of the Dekalb platforms north precluded access to the bypass from tunnel trains, the connections between the bypass tks and the Brighton Line could have been retained if the TA’s planners had been a little more imaginative. |
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| (1619816) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 7 15:02:23 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by randyo on Sun May 7 04:37:48 2023. But NOOOOOOOO-OOOOOO-OOOOOOO!!! |
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| (1619817) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 7 15:13:00 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. And the northern end of the 42nd St. lower level was used as an underpass between both main platforms before the entire mezzanine at 42nd St. was incorporated into the paid fare zone. I remember using that underpass once or twice and it gave me the creeps! It was like stepping into a twilight zone. |
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| (1619820) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun May 7 17:21:42 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 2 08:48:40 2023. Connection to the BMT Liberty avenue line was part of a 1939 NYC BoT plan to recapture the post 1911 elevated extension. The present civil construction fly over to Grant Avenue was on K1/K2 track ramps was performed when the present subway was built.Visible construction of the two ramps do not indicate add on civil structures. The width of the tunnel area past the last set of K track ramps is wide and continues to a solid concrete and steel wall across all tracks with space between express and local tracks for descent of two yard lead tracks, A7 & A8, from Pitkin. The at grade tunnel turn off just past the Pitkin Yard subway portal of tracks A7 & A8, the tracks with the cinder block temporary wall, were the designed two yard tracks that would have descended down to meet the four track Fulton Street subway just north of 76th Street. Track A7 was designed to a crash bumper block to keep a run away train from merging onto the main line. Track K2 ends in a similar crash bumper, as does B5 track on the north end of 47-50th Street 6th Avenue station. All Fulton Subway construction past Euclid was part of a long range planned, but with the exception to the on the cheap connection to the LIRR RoW to the Rockaway's, was never funded. |
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| (1619821) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun May 7 17:23:18 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 3 02:48:28 2023. Time will tell, but not a MTA C&D priority. |
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| (1619822) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun May 7 18:40:31 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Handbrake on Sun May 7 17:21:42 2023. In what way was the connection to the LIRR RoW to the Rockaways "on the cheap"? |
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| (1619823) | |
Re: Fulton Street Subway |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun May 7 19:15:53 2023, in response to Fulton Street Subway, posted by Q65A on Sat Apr 29 09:42:41 2023. this seems relevant: t1 13 Sep 1939, Wed The Brooklyn Daily Eagle (Brooklyn, New York) Newspapers.com
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| (1619824) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun May 7 20:19:25 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun May 7 18:40:31 2023. When assessing why the BoT, and later NYCT decided to connect the transit system at what is known as Liberty Junction, from a civil construction point of view, it was less costly, and quicker to connect the LIRR Roackaway RoW at Liberty Avenue instead of constructing connecting tunnels from the existing QBL line bellmouths at 63rd Drive to meet the LIRR RoW at White Pot Junction.Plus there would also have been an additional expense to rehab the entire LIRR RoW between White Pot Junction and Liberty Avenue, as was performed south of Liberty Avenue towards Jamaica Bay. To place the northern section of the LIRR RoW into service would require the rebuilding of the existing LIRR roadbed, new track, signaling, power distribution, communication and station construction would have added a significant cost that the BoT, and later NYCTA, could not afford at the time considering that BMT-IND unification projects were in the planning stages, or in progress. Redirected Second Avenue Subway Bond money could only go so far. One proposed plan by the BoT, based on subway expansion maps, was to meet the LIRR RoW to the Rockaway's via a Fulton Subway extension in to Queens, not from the Liberty Avenue elevated. Under what arrangement might have been reached between the LIRR and BoT for service is only speculative. The LIRR RoW on the Rockaway peninsula was grade separated with a reinforced poured steel elevated structure in about 1941. The only exceptions were the Rock Park 116 Street terminal that remained at grade, and the new temporary low level elevated steel platform at Mott Avenue Far Rockaway where the RoW then continued at grade towards Nassau County. The unexpected (?) Jamaica Bay trestle fire changed any NYC transit Rockaway takeover time line, if a timeline had actually existed. The elevated RoW in the Rockaway's were built with some intent by the LIRR for rapid transit takeover considering that all new stations, except Matt Avenue, had high level platforms. Subway service to the Rocakway's was always a NYC agenda. The LIRR property that was once the Far Rockaway station complex, and rail yard was sold and developed into a strip mall in the late 1960's, recently was torn down and developed with new residential housing. A what if is, how long would have the LIRR continued to serve the Rockaway branch across Jamaica Bay had there been no trestle fire, and what might the MTCA, NY State agency that operated the LIRR after the NY State takeover of the LIRR in 1965, have done with the Rockaway Beach line RoW going forward??? |
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| (1619825) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Sun May 7 20:45:30 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. I think Joe is a little off about 42nd/8th. A few years ago, I read a bunch of articles in the Times archive about subway construction in the 20s. I found some of the articles again today, and this is what I gleaned from them (and some other sources).There were multiple government entities responsible for transit planning and construction. The city might have "owned" the subways (with ridiculously long leases) but the state controlled the oversight, going back to the 1880s. Oh, and apparently Mayor Hylan and Governor Smith had a rather deBlasio/Cuomo-like relationship. In 1921, the New York State Transit Commission took over from the Public Service Commission in overseeing the remains of the Dual Contracts and any expansion of the privates. This included extending the 42nd Street/Queensboro (Corona/Flushing IRT) line from Grand Central to Times Square. Articles said it was supposed to end at an 8th Avenue station under 41st between 8th and 9th, and both 42nd Street business and property owners wanted the line to go to the Hudson and to New Jersey. There was a North Jersey Transit Commission that recommended extending both the 14th Street and 42nd Street lines to New Jersey and also build an interstate loop from NJ to Manhattan. (See chapter 7 of Joe Raskin's The Routes Not Taken.) So, both a New Jersey commission and 42nd Street business interests were calling for the line to be extended to New Jersey. Meanwhile, in 1924, the New York City Board of Estimate established the New York City Board of Transportation to oversee the planning, construction, and operation of the new City-owned Independent Subway System. While Mayor Hylan was gone before construction began, Mayor Walker continued with the plans. I saw one article where he suggested not opening the 8th Avenue Subway until Unification, Walker had his own problems. The BoT's plans for 42nd/8th involved using the lower level for incoming Queens trains, as Joe Cunningham said. I haven't found any articles that say that this was done with the intent to stop the IRT from going further west. But, it was noted at the time in this article that this would be the effect. NYT 2/12/27 p24: "SEES SUBWAY LINE TO JERSEY BLOCKED "Forty-Second Street Group Holds Eighth Av. Platforms Will Prevent Extension. "TWO-LEVEL STATION A BAR Queensboro Route at Same Depth, Association Finds — Opposes 53d Street Subway. "Extension of the Queensboro subway beyond Eighth Avenue to the Hudson River and ultimately to New Jersey, as favored by a number of civic organizations, will be blocked forever by the construction of a double-deck station on the Eighth Avenue subway between Fortieth and Forty-second Streets if the plans of the Board of Transportation are carried out, according to a statement issued yesterday by the Forty-second Street Property Owners' and Merchants' Association." Not quite "blocked forever," of course. |
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| (1619826) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun May 7 20:59:18 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. I consider this to be authoritative on these issues. |
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| (1619829) | |
Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 8 01:57:49 2023, in response to Re: For the Love of God (Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway)), posted by Handbrake on Sun May 7 17:23:18 2023. As the Hudson Yards extension has shown, MTA priorities can be modified by large stacks of cash and/or intense political will. That said, I do favor both Queenslink, and Triboro--the latter full FRA compliant to be run w/ MN/CDOT stock. including at least a transfer station in the Bronx. |
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| (1619831) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 8 02:22:21 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Handbrake on Sun May 7 20:19:25 2023. According to a B ofT report on new subway lines from 1950, even though plans had been changed to abandon further extension of the Pitkin Ave subway and connect to the lIRR ROW at Liberty JCT, the proposed map still showed the connection from Qns Blvd to the LIRR ROW at Whitepot Jct coexisting with the connection that is currently there at Liberty Jct. |
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| (1619834) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Ancient Mariner on Mon May 8 07:55:59 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by randyo on Mon May 8 02:22:21 2023. It's nothing if not ingenous to cite facts such as those below as evidence that the tunnel east of Euclid Avenue extends as far as 76th Street, or indeed one inch beyond the "temporary" wall at the tunnel's end."1. The end of the tunnel is not part of the side walls and ceiling. Rather it is a concrete curtain wall of a different color and apparent age from the side walls. "2. The bench walls on each side are cut with the internal ceramic ducts hanging out of the ends. No one would ever end a bench wall in such a manner. "3. The track and third rail end unevenly, the bumping blocks appearing to be added components. "4. Most significant, A4 track has signals that face the wall." If the completed work was done in anticipation of further extension, which was certainly the case, then this is EXACTLY what one would expect to find - jerry-build, inconsistent, and anomolous "finish work" that everyone hoped would soon be dismantled. 1. You don't build an end wall as an integral part of the tunnel connected to the side walls if it's going to be removed. You only need something to keep the unexcavated dirt from collapsing into the already-built portion, and in this case to keep water out as well. 2. There's no point in finishing everything up as if this were to be the end of the line. Just install whatever fits, with stuff hanging out and waiting for the later extension. 3. Same goes for the track - just end the rails where they end and install the temporary bumping blocks. 4. Signals too. Install everything that fits into the built section, even if it's beyond the point where it's of any value in the short run. I sincerely believe that everything anyone has managed to cite with respect to the work beyond Euclid Avenue is of this nature. Every bit if the mystery can be accounted for by remembering that future work was excpected. In that light, one sees exactly what one would expect. How else should it look under the circumstances? |
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| (1619839) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 09:05:04 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. Nothing here proves any tunnel past said wall. Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. Without construction details and/or photographs....its all BS. |
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| (1619840) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 09:15:46 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. To add: construction ended abruptly in spring 1942....without planning. It is highly conceivable that all the "unlikely" construction noted here was complete with the very intention to continue as planned as soon as the government allowed. So wall facing signals and uncommon tunnel ending construction proves nothing.A lot changed between 1942 and 1945. Roosevelt was dead. New Deal financial support from the Federal government was dead. The federal government had huge war debts to pay back and massive overseas responsibilities with respect to rebuilding a war ravaged Europe and Asia. Prewar subway expansions were DOA. This could not be foreseen in 1941. And to end this silliness, if there were a 76th St station and tunnel down there, it would most likely have been retained for additional crossover and layup potential. We see this elsewhere, like at Church Ave and north of 168th St, where infrastructure built for planned lines long since cancelled was put to use. |
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| (1619842) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Ancient Mariner on Mon May 8 09:28:13 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 09:15:46 2023. Amen. |
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| (1619844) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 10:07:09 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 09:05:04 2023. why are eyewitness accounts unreliable? these are T.A. employees who have been in there,not you.how come nobody asked me of what I know?i,m only the guy who started this tread many years ago. |
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| (1619850) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 8 13:09:55 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 09:05:04 2023. Not only that, but it’s all hearsay. Not only does he claim that other people told him, he doesn’t name them. |
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| (1619854) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 8 14:29:07 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 10:07:09 2023. Are you an eyewitness? If so, please state exactly what you have seen.If not, please name the eyewitnesses who have talked to you and state exactly what they told you they saw. It doesn't matter if they are dead - this isn't a court of law. We still want to hear. |
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| (1619855) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 14:53:48 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 8 13:09:55 2023. I'm taking what he said as facts and even then it proves nothing. |
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| (1619856) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 8 15:05:42 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 14:53:48 2023. Yes, his facts prove nothing, but a lot of the “evidence” is “someone told me they know a guy who saw the station shell”. |
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| (1619858) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Mon May 8 15:21:42 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by AlM on Mon May 8 14:29:07 2023. As in the past, all references to an eyewitness have been through third parties, and conjecture.Anyone familiar with subway tunnel civil construction recognizes that with any tunnel structure, there are air vents, and access hatches to permit structural inspections. To include disconnected tunnel sections. Just follow the sidewalk vents along Pitkin Avenue until they end adjacent to the municipal parking lot next to the Grant Avenue station where Pitkin Avenue drops one/two blocks further east past a Public School building in Queens. The unbuilt sections of the 1973 Second Avenue Tunnels had/have emergency access, and ventilation ducts. The unbuilt SAS sections were equipped with tunnel lighting, and emergency telephones. NYCT EMD Telephone Maintainers conduct routine inspection tests of these telephone as its performed on main line telephone and EA boxes. The above is a first hand account of conversations I have had with Telephone Maintainers on A&P access duty in Communication Rooms that I inspected during contract work. I have been over the system on foot, and having walked to the end of the Fulton line subway tunnel past the last Emergency Exit, nothing will greet the observer but a smooth and not so dirty concrete wall. All other observation conveyed by third parties that have been quoted are strictly hearsay. There is no 76th Street tunnel/station, but makes good conversation. Case closed. |
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| (1619865) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 8 17:10:34 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Handbrake on Mon May 8 15:21:42 2023. TR made a very specific statement of knowledge. Let's give him a chance to back it up with details (or not). |
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| (1619867) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 17:39:01 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by AlM on Mon May 8 14:29:07 2023. 1964, i HIRED ON TO THE t.a. WENT TO WORK AS A TRUCK DRIVER FOR THE SIGNAL DEPT.ONE OLD TIMER WHO I WORKED WITH WAS TOM CAREY,SIGNAL MAINTAINER. I WOULD ASK HIM ABOUT VARIOUS BELLMOUTHS I SAW AS A KID "RIDING THE RAILS"AND HE WOULD ANSWER.HE TOLD ME THAT WHILE WORKING PITKIN YARD HE CAME ACROSS THE YARD LEADS TO 76ST,WALKED IT WITH HIS MAINTAINER WHO SHOWED HIM THE 76ST.STATION. I HAVE DESCRIBED THE STATION AS HE DESCRIBED IT TO ME,1968 WHILE A TRANSIT COP[DIST.33] I ASKED A M/M IF HE KNEW ABOUT THIS.HE ANSWERED THE IN THE EARLY 1960`S HE WAS A C/R ON THE PUMP TRAIN,THEY HAD TO PUMP OUT THE TUNNEL ON TRACK A7.THEY WENT BEYOUND THE CINDER BLOCK WALL FOR A DISTANCE,HOW LONG HE DIDN`T SAY UNTILL THEY HIT WATER& PUMPED IT OUT.NO,I DIDN`T ASK HIM HIS NAME. NOW WE GO TO APX.20 YEARS AGO.I SPOKE TO A COP WAYNE DRUMMOND OF L.I.WHO I USED TO WORK WITH IN THE 7-5 PCT FROM 1969 TO 1978.I HAD CALLED HI UP ON AN UNRELATED TRANSIT QUESTION.W/O ANY PROMTING HE TOLD ME THAT HIM & ANOTHER COP NAME OF JOE PECORARO,A FORMER COP WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SUBWAY/EL SYSTEM WHEM WAYNE SAID "LET ME SHOW YOU SOMTHING" AND SHOWED HIM THE TURNOUTS O THE CHESTNUT ST. CONNECTION.JOE SAYS NOW I,M GONNA SHOW YOU SOMETHING.THEY DROVE INTO PITKIN YARDGOT A SET OF KEYS FROM THE TOWER MASTER. THEY WALKED THE YARD LEADS TO CINDER BLOCK WALL WHICH HAD A STRUCYURE DOOR IN IT.WALKED THE ROADBED FOR A DISTANCE UNTILL THE CAME UPON THE 76ST FRAMED OUT E/B STATION.NO TRACKS OR LIGHTS WERE IN THE YARD LEADS,JUST THEIR 2 BATTERY FLASH LIGHTS.THE STATION HAD SEALED UP STAIRS TO THE STREET,BLUE TILES ON THE WALL.THE TUNNEL BEYOUNG 76ST STATION WENT FOR A DISTANCE,THEY DIDN`T WALK IT.THE W/B STATION WAS A PARTIAL SHELL.THIS ADVENTURE OCCURED ON A SLOW 4X12 TOUR& BOTH COPS WERE ON THE CLOCK YOU WANTED NAMES,YOU GOT EM. |
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| (1619869) | |
Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 8 18:21:10 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 17:39:01 2023. Thank you, but you do realize that is unreadable, don't you? Let me try to reformat (below).You have some real stuff here, as follows: - Tom Carey, signal maintainer, told you about the station circa 1968. - A motorman told you that as a C/R in the early 1960s he had to pump out some water from behind the cinder block wall. - You talked to former police officer Wayne Drummond circa 2002. Wayne told you that another officer, Joe Pecoraro, took Wayne to Pitkin Yard, where they then walked to the cinder block wall and through a door in that wall. Then they walked a ways on the roadbed to a partially completed 76th street station, which they looked at with the light of their flashlights. Features included a blue tiled wall and a sealed up stairway to the street. So what you report of actual substance is: - Tom Carey told you all about it in 1968. - There was once some excess water behind the wall. - Wayne Drummond gave you details around 20 years ago, which you now repeat. Thank you very much. At least now we know your story. I personally have no opinion on the veracity of Tom Carey and Wayne Drummond, but I appreciate hearing your rendition of Drummond's story. We do have a detail that could be corroborated: that the cinder block wall has a door in it. Text, reformatted: 1964, i HIRED ON TO THE t.a. WENT TO WORK AS A TRUCK DRIVER FOR THE SIGNAL DEPT. ONE OLD TIMER WHO I WORKED WITH WAS TOM CAREY, SIGNAL MAINTAINER. I WOULD ASK HIM ABOUT VARIOUS BELLMOUTHS I SAW AS A KID "RIDING THE RAILS" AND HE WOULD ANSWER. HE TOLD ME THAT WHILE WORKING PITKIN YARD HE CAME ACROSS THE YARD LEADS TO 76 ST, WALKED IT WITH HIS MAINTAINER WHO SHOWED HIM THE 76th ST STATION. I HAVE DESCRIBED THE STATION AS HE DESCRIBED IT TO ME, 1968 WHILE A TRANSIT COP [DIST.33] I ASKED A M/M IF HE KNEW ABOUT THIS. HE ANSWERED THat IN THE EARLY 1960`S HE WAS A C/R ON THE PUMP TRAIN, THEY HAD TO PUMP OUT THE TUNNEL ON TRACK A7. THEY WENT BEYOUND THE CINDER BLOCK WALL FOR A DISTANCE, HOW LONG HE DIDN`T SAY UNTIL THEY HIT WATER & PUMPED IT OUT. NO, I DIDN`T ASK HIM HIS NAME. NOW WE GO TO APX. 20 YEARS AGO. I SPOKE TO A COP WAYNE DRUMMOND OF L.I. WHO I USED TO WORK WITH IN THE 7-5 PCT FROM 1969 TO 1978. I HAD CALLED HIm UP ON AN UNRELATED TRANSIT QUESTION. W/O ANY PROMpTING HE TOLD ME THAT HIM & ANOTHER COP NAME OF JOE PECORARO, A FORMER COP WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SUBWAY/EL SYSTEM WHEM WAYNE SAID "LET ME SHOW YOU SOMTHING" AND SHOWED HIM THE TURNOUTS On THE CHESTNUT ST. CONNECTION. JOE SAYS NOW I'M GONNA SHOW YOU SOMETHING.THEY DROVE INTO PITKIN YARD, GOT A SET OF KEYS FROM THE TOWER MASTER. THEY WALKED THE YARD LEADS TO CINDER BLOCK WALL WHICH HAD A STRUCtURE DOOR IN IT. WALKED THE ROADBED FOR A DISTANCE UNTIL THEy CAME UPON THE 76ST FRAMED OUT E/B STATION. NO TRACKS OR LIGHTS WERE IN THE YARD LEADS, JUST THEIR 2 BATTERY FLASH LIGHTS. THE STATION HAD SEALED UP STAIRS TO THE STREET, BLUE TILES ON THE WALL. THE TUNNEL BEYONd 76th ST STATION WENT FOR A DISTANCE; THEY DIDN`T WALK IT. THE W/B STATION WAS A PARTIAL SHELL.THIS ADVENTURE OCCURED ON A SLOW 4X12 TOUR & BOTH COPS WERE ON THE CLOCK. YOU WANTED NAMES,YOU GOT EM. |
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| (1619874) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 8 19:24:48 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 17:39:01 2023. I just want to say that I don't have a problem w/ all caps. Yeah, someone decided it was shouting, but to me it just harks back to a time when there were no letters except capitals. So, rockon TUNNELRAT! |
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| (1619876) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon May 8 19:39:42 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 8 09:15:46 2023. "...if there were a 76th St station and tunnel down there, it would most likely have been retained for additional crossover and layup potential."That makes sense, unless as has been suggested, water in the tunnel became a problem to the point at which storing trains there would be impractical. With a full yard so close, any amount of water that required constant pumping would have made the area more trouble than it was worth. |
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| (1619877) | |
Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 20:06:46 2023, in response to Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF??, posted by AlM on Mon May 8 18:21:10 2023. tom carey told me about it in 1964,not 1968. the m/m told me they had to pump out a lot of water ,not some water.there WAS a doorin the cinder block wall at one time,long since removed. for an unreadable post YOU certainly did a great job on interperting it.for that you get not one but two "atta boys"both of these cops I worked with in the 7-5 pct many years ago,didn`t know they were railfans untill apx.20 years ago,a pity. |
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| (1619878) | |
Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 20:06:48 2023, in response to Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF??, posted by AlM on Mon May 8 18:21:10 2023. tom carey told me about it in 1964,not 1968. the m/m told me they had to pump out a lot of water ,not some water.there WAS a doorin the cinder block wall at one time,long since removed. for an unreadable post YOU certainly did a great job on interperting it.for that you get not one but two "atta boys"both of these cops I worked with in the 7-5 pct many years ago,didn`t know they were railfans untill apx.20 years ago,a pity. |
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| (1619879) | |
Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 8 20:11:13 2023, in response to Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF??, posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 20:06:46 2023. It's amazing what paragraphs and spaces between sentences will do. :) |
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| (1619880) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 20:14:42 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon May 8 19:39:42 2023. at one time it was used for long relays from pitkin yard.as was told to me track a7 bumper blocked just before the 76st.station track A8 bumperblocked a distance before the partial shell going w/b.I did post a photo of the homeball just before the cinderblock wall.I have posted the same info that is posted several times over the years. |
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| (1619881) | |
Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 20:15:50 2023, in response to Re: PITKIN AVE-- PROFF??, posted by AlM on Mon May 8 20:11:13 2023. not when you are tired and in a rush to finish it before dinner. |
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| (1619888) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 9 03:53:15 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 8 13:09:55 2023. But he DID name them! |
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| (1619889) | |
Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 9 04:03:29 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 8 20:14:42 2023. As I have alluded to, when George Abere and I first went in there in late 1962, the cinder block walls were not there yet, the yd lead tunnels ended in mounds of earth and the rails and home signals that had been used to protect the switches that had been recently removed were still there and the signals illuminated and fully functioning. When we returned there in 1983 when we were trainmasters the rails were gone, the signal although still in place were dark and the cinder block walls had been erected. Unfortunately I didn’t really pay attention to how far we walked in in 1962 so I can’t say for sure if the cinder block walls were put up right where the mounds of earth were or if the erection of the walls shortened the tunnels any. |
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