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| Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) (1619825) | |||
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Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway) |
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Posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Sun May 7 20:45:30 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTOS:] PITKIN AVE-- PROFF?? (Was - Re: Fulton Street Subway), posted by Asgard on Fri May 5 15:22:27 2023. I think Joe is a little off about 42nd/8th. A few years ago, I read a bunch of articles in the Times archive about subway construction in the 20s. I found some of the articles again today, and this is what I gleaned from them (and some other sources).There were multiple government entities responsible for transit planning and construction. The city might have "owned" the subways (with ridiculously long leases) but the state controlled the oversight, going back to the 1880s. Oh, and apparently Mayor Hylan and Governor Smith had a rather deBlasio/Cuomo-like relationship. In 1921, the New York State Transit Commission took over from the Public Service Commission in overseeing the remains of the Dual Contracts and any expansion of the privates. This included extending the 42nd Street/Queensboro (Corona/Flushing IRT) line from Grand Central to Times Square. Articles said it was supposed to end at an 8th Avenue station under 41st between 8th and 9th, and both 42nd Street business and property owners wanted the line to go to the Hudson and to New Jersey. There was a North Jersey Transit Commission that recommended extending both the 14th Street and 42nd Street lines to New Jersey and also build an interstate loop from NJ to Manhattan. (See chapter 7 of Joe Raskin's The Routes Not Taken.) So, both a New Jersey commission and 42nd Street business interests were calling for the line to be extended to New Jersey. Meanwhile, in 1924, the New York City Board of Estimate established the New York City Board of Transportation to oversee the planning, construction, and operation of the new City-owned Independent Subway System. While Mayor Hylan was gone before construction began, Mayor Walker continued with the plans. I saw one article where he suggested not opening the 8th Avenue Subway until Unification, Walker had his own problems. The BoT's plans for 42nd/8th involved using the lower level for incoming Queens trains, as Joe Cunningham said. I haven't found any articles that say that this was done with the intent to stop the IRT from going further west. But, it was noted at the time in this article that this would be the effect. NYT 2/12/27 p24: "SEES SUBWAY LINE TO JERSEY BLOCKED "Forty-Second Street Group Holds Eighth Av. Platforms Will Prevent Extension. "TWO-LEVEL STATION A BAR Queensboro Route at Same Depth, Association Finds — Opposes 53d Street Subway. "Extension of the Queensboro subway beyond Eighth Avenue to the Hudson River and ultimately to New Jersey, as favored by a number of civic organizations, will be blocked forever by the construction of a double-deck station on the Eighth Avenue subway between Fortieth and Forty-second Streets if the plans of the Board of Transportation are carried out, according to a statement issued yesterday by the Forty-second Street Property Owners' and Merchants' Association." Not quite "blocked forever," of course. |
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