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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 13:40:19 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Feb 6 12:37:59 2016. A ferry has to have excellent stops with surface/sub-surface transport at each ready to carry people on, preferably SBS (a real one) or light rail, if not subways. The ability to cross the river multiple times along a route has potential but still needs to be planned really well. The surface transport at each stop can't just replicate a ferry route (as it seems the proposed light-rail system would in part) but must take people inland. The ferry also has to demonstrably reduce the need for subways. Like for example the trains per hour in each tube should reflect the fact that now there's another way across the water. That means they should be able to run less or at least slow the rate of growth. If all of that can't happen, then sad to say the ferry isn't too helpful to the city, aside from the few people lucky enough to both live and work close to the river. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 13:45:28 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 13:36:39 2016. I remember that dude. :) |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 6 14:54:04 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 13:45:28 2016. Yes..many of us do,yet I kinda miss the obnoxious flavor mixed with the contempt seasonings we were often blessed with.Every so often,the horrible taste of his offerings was Just Enough to place you FIRMLY on solid ground. Gaud...I do miss the ramblings of a madman. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 14:59:18 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 13:45:28 2016. I think he still posts under a new name . . . |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 15:05:45 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 09:43:44 2016. The number of residents has been growing rapidly and will continue to grow. It would be nice for the city to be ahead of the curve, for once. Buses are poky and unreliable. Rail lines often outperform buses in the same general area. Since the supposed 19 subway stops all require a longish walk or bus ride to reach them, their ridership numbers are not directly comparable to what a nearby rail line would have. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Dan on Sat Feb 6 15:28:03 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 12:47:33 2016. Or $29,592.80/foot. We all know that $2.5B will end up being $5B ($59,185.61/foot).This huge proposal only gets a 2-page synopsis on the Mayor's website: http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/home/downloads/pdf/reports/2016/stoc-2016-brooklyn_queens_connector_fact_sheet.pdf |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 16:10:26 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Dan on Sat Feb 6 15:28:03 2016. maybe we need a system of paying the contractors in bonds... We certainly need a way to force the cost overruns out. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 6 16:18:50 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Dan on Sat Feb 6 15:28:03 2016. If heavy rail subway, it would be $10 Billion, and that would never happen. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 16:42:17 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 14:59:18 2016. Which is?Not R2D2 - that's been quite well established. |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 6 17:01:08 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 09:43:44 2016. If you extend the F train to Hillside Ave and Springfield Boulevard wouldn't many passengers still wind up on a bus?The Q1 and Q43 are the only buses from Jamaica that run that far east. All the others turn off Hillside Ave at some point. For example, would there be any advantage to taking the subway to Franny Lew and then transferring to a bus rather than taking the Q76 or Q77 from Jamaica? All NICE bus passengers would still have have to transfer to a bus at some point. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 17:12:37 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 6 17:01:08 2016. The shorter the bus ride, the better. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 17:39:23 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 6 14:54:04 2016. Come on over to OT, there's still some left. :) |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 6 17:55:44 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 6 17:01:08 2016. The MTA would see no financial benefit of truncated NICE buses of an extended F, just that from the 2 Q buses. Makes the cost/benefit analysis favoring it harder. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 6 18:10:28 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 6 17:01:08 2016. The secret problem is that NYCTA's transfer policies make it hard to justify cutting the bus service. One would need to keep the buses going into Jamaica for those who need the transfer to another bus going elsewhere. For example Q77 to Q17.Now if you redesign the bus network or switch to a European style fare regime in which one has X hours or minutes to make any transfers needed, you could get away with it. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 18:50:05 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 6 18:10:28 2016. Day Pass. simplest, most equitable. Cuts down otherwise roundabout routing while getting riders where they needto go. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Feb 6 19:50:38 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 4 21:23:53 2016. Well one has to start somewhere, and it could expand from there. Karl |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Feb 6 19:56:35 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 4 18:53:38 2016. Well these two a-holes didn't speak for everyone, plenty of people are still angry what these two morons did Chicago is doing fine with the els they have they haven't suffered at all. Karl |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 19:57:01 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Feb 6 19:50:38 2016. Except that within many segments of the US society, buses have a stigma not shared by "light rail". |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 20:03:51 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Feb 6 19:56:35 2016. Yes and no. First, CTA pruned the elevateds of four branches and the outer ends of 3 others. Then the streetcars were scrapped. Chicago has added 2 new routes and revived one extension while cutting back the first L and many local stations were abolished although a couple have been restored this century. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 6 20:12:54 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 18:50:05 2016. Which Jay Walder they dropped like a ton of bricks a few years ago. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 20:42:01 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 6 20:12:54 2016. well, so he is a moron. But IINM he is no longer employed by the TA. I have been clear that fares should do as little as possible to disincent usage. Ultimately, IMHO,transit should be free just like using sidewalks. Any step along that path is good by me. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 20:57:11 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 16:42:17 2016. Has it? |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 21:16:48 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 6 20:57:11 2016. Someone noted that TD was at a restaurant with company at the exact moment of an R2D2 diatribe. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 6 22:06:24 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Feb 6 19:50:38 2016. Not for $156 million a mile and an average speed of slower than 9 mph. |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 6 22:19:29 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 6 22:06:24 2016. agreed! Just use it for an extension of the E to Rosedale! |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 6 22:30:07 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 5 21:24:48 2016. Koch was a Democrat, your point? |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 6 22:31:14 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 5 23:29:34 2016. Did you see what it looked like by the 70s? Yes destroyed. Destroyed things can't be rebuilt, your point? |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 6 22:32:36 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 5 23:30:08 2016. ??? How so? The city wasn destroyed by the 70s? What does that have to do with today? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 00:02:10 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 21:16:48 2016. Hmmmm. Well, TD used to post when he was clearly at a bar. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 00:04:09 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 6 22:31:14 2016. Did I see? Yes, I was here. It was never as bad as critics made it seem. And what happened in the 70s had little to do with him. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 00:06:14 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 00:04:09 2016. And a lot of these folks weren't around in the 70's. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 7 01:45:59 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 21:16:48 2016. LOL! So what? That proves nothing! |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Feb 7 05:44:40 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 00:04:09 2016. Well then, yes destroyed. Did it get as bad as lets say Detroit is today? No, but let's not forget how bad NYC was in the 70s and 80s. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 05:58:13 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Feb 7 05:44:40 2016. Just for you ... hmmmmm. Economy sucked for ordinary people, and just look at how that all lined up.1970 Richard M. Nixon Republican 1971 Richard M. Nixon Republican 1972 Richard M. Nixon Republican 1973 Richard M. Nixon Republican 1974 Gerald Ford Republican 1975 Gerald Ford Republican 1976 Gerald Ford Republican 1977 Jimmy Carter Democrat 1978 Jimmy Carter Democrat 1979 Jimmy Carter Democrat 1980 Jimmy Carter Democrat 1981 Ronald Reagan Republican 1982 Ronald Reagan Republican 1983 Ronald Reagan Republican 1984 Ronald Reagan Republican 1985 Ronald Reagan Republican 1986 Ronald Reagan Republican 1987 Ronald Reagan Republican 1988 Ronald Reagan Republican 1989 George Bush Republican 1990 George Bush Republican 1991 George Bush Republican 1992 George Bush Republican 1993 Bill Clinton Democrat 1994 Bill Clinton Democrat 1995 Bill Clinton Democrat 1996 Bill Clinton Democrat 1997 Bill Clinton Democrat 1998 Bill Clinton Democrat 1999 Bill Clinton Democrat 2000 Bill Clinton Democrat You're welcome. :) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 7 06:00:10 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 6 00:40:13 2016. I thought everything went to shit before Beame took office, with the fiscal crisis and everything. IIRC, the fiscal crisis took a deteriorating situation and made it a disaster. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 06:02:40 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 00:02:10 2016. There's also that R2D2 claims to live in a rural area and has absolutely no knowledge of Judaism. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 06:14:26 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 05:58:13 2016. And before you even go there (I know you will), here's what difference just four years of Carter provided for the subways, contrast and compare to the others ...Even throughout the dark period of the late 1970s, there were improvement plans, many of which really were implemented. Closed circuit TV in the 42nd St / Times Square station complex New lighting on the Brighton Line south of Newkirk Ave A new escalator at Brighton Beach New escalators at Smith / 9th Street Signal improvements on the southern extremity of the New Lots Ave line in Brooklyn An infusion of $27 million in federal funds in October of 1978 enabled the following improvements: Repairing roof canopies of ten Culver Line stations Conversion of 15 escalators to automatic operation in various stations Rehabilitation of other Manhattan escalators and those at Smith / 9th Streets in Brooklyn Replacement of third rail on the IRT between 168th Street and Dyckman Street in Manhattan Transit improvements planned for 1979 included Welded rail along the 8th Avenue IND between Jay Street and Worth Street 40 closed circuit television monitors at Stillwell Avenue Power substation renovations to the substations at Flatbush Avenue and Empire Blvd, and Joralemon Street and Willow Place. A new car wash facility in Coney Island Yard Canopy replacement along the West End Line and the Brighton Line in Brooklyn New signage on 2,496 IRT cars In May of 1979, $19.9 million in federal funds was requested for the following transit improvements: Rebuilding the Marcy Avenue J/M station Equipping 170 token booths with a direct intercom to TA HQ that would also act as a silent alarm Replacement of the wooden platforms at Sutter Avenue (Canarsie Line) In 1976, the Transit Authority, as a cost saving measure, looked to discontinue the Franklin Avenue Shuttle, but neighborhood support for it always saved from being closed. One of the reasons for keeping it open, the neighborhood spokesmen would say, was to carry people to Brooklyn Jewish Hospital. In late 1979, however, the hospital itself was in dire financial straits. In 1977, the Linden Shop opened in Brooklyn, enabling the Transit Authority to prefabricate track panels indoors year-round. One of its first products was a 350-foot long by 40-foot wide diamond crossover installed just south of the BMT Jamaica Line at Queens Blvd. Prior to the plant's opening, track fabrication was performed in Westchester Yard in the Bronx and the 38th Street yard in Brooklyn. With the opening of the indoor facility, production increased nearly 50% over the previous year. At 11am on January 16th, 1978, the TA opened three interdivisional transfer points on the subway that today seem like they always existed: A transfer between the IRT at 14th St / 7th Ave with the BMT Canarsie Line and the IND 6th Avenue Line A transfer between the Lexington Avenue local at Canal Street with the BMT trunk line up Broadway A transfer between the BMT Brighton line at Atlantic Ave with the BMT West End, Sea Beach and Astoria Lines at Pacific Street and the IRT at Atlantic Ave The basis for today's subway map debuted at the Cityana Gallery on East 53rd Street on February 1st, 1977. The prototype had all lines drawn in red, which was not done when the production versions were released. This map would replace the London Underground style map created by Massimo Vignelli in 1972. Between November 1977 and February 1978, despite the snowy winter, 97% of trains were on time. In early 1978, it appeared that the Carter Administration was going to provide New York City with substantial Federal funds for modernizing its subway, bus and commuter rail operations. Perhaps with these funds, the 63rd Street line could be extended to Forest Hills by 1988, following the plans outlined in the "Program for Action". John G. deRoos, senior executive officer of the Transit Authority, felt his priorities were modernizing the existing system and completion of the Queens "super-express bypass" to Forest Hills. There was genuine hope that this could happen. President Carter also visited the New York Subway in September of 1979, and vowed to provide the funds to revitalize it. "New York's subway system is the senior citizen of underground rail travel - the IRT is 75 this year," Carter said. "But when Ed Koch and (MTA Chairman) Harold Fisher and I get through with it - with the tools we are fighting to get Congress to give us - it won't look a day over sweet 16." Despite the fiscal issues and uncertain funding, construction of the 63rd St subway continued on. Originally planned in the 1968 "Program for Action" as 40 miles of new subway for Queens, it had been reduced to 15 miles - the section under 63rd Street to 21st Street / Queensbridge, and the new subway under Archer Avenue to Parsons Blvd. The 21st Street / Queensbridge station was not in the original plan - it was added only after Queensbridge residents complained loudly enough to get it. Transit advocates at that time felt that the 63rd Street subway, in particular, would benefit very few people. The Transit Authority felt that people could be convinced to leave the E and F trains along Queens Blvd and transfer to the new line in Queensbridge. (The transfer would involve walking a block or two to the new line.) On August 8th, 1978, the federal government gave New York City $134.5 million in transit grants, most of which was slated for the 63rd Street line and an underground connection between the IND Queens Blvd line and the new station in Queensbridge. It was felt that the line could be open by 1981. Construction on the Archer Avenue subway continued, too. The holing through of the Archer Avenue subway tunnels occurred on December 14th, 1977. On October 1st, 1979, groundbreaking for a 1,300 cut and cover section of the Archer Avenue line occurred. This section also included the Jamaica / Van Wyck station. Construction was supposed to be completed in early 1984. By June of 1978, it was expected that 120 IRT cars would be retrofitted with air conditioning. 1,350 retrofitted IRT cars, about half the fleet, were expected to be completed by 1980, then revised to 1982, financed by a $35.3 million program with city, state and federal contributions. The remaining half of the IRT subway cars would be retrofitted or replaced outright by 1990. Subway cars were bring inspected every 7,500 miles, and the air conditioning systems were checked eight times between June 1st and Labor Day. The seeds for converting the original IRT City Hall station into a restaurant were sown in October of 1978. Phyllis Cerf Wagner, the head of the beautification committee advising the MTA, led numerous excursions into the station with city officials, and expressed her desire to make this conversion. A glass partition would be installed at the platform's edge to cut down on the noise and prevent restaurant patrons from falling onto the tracks. The Transit Authority introduced the "Train to the Plane", the JFK Express, on September 23rd, 1978. Even though the ride was more comfortable aboard new R-46 subway cars, and a premium fare was charged ($3.50), the JFK Express usually took longer to reach the airport that the A train did. The service was not popular with airport passengers, but did become popular with residents of Howard Beach, Queens, who felt that the premium fare was worth the comfortable trip to and from work. Trains operated from 57th Street / 6th Avenue to the Howard Beach station of the IND Rockaway Line on 20 minute headways between 6AM and 11PM. Source: http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/The_New_York_Transit_Authority_in_the_1970s |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 06:20:44 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 7 06:00:10 2016. Nope ... may have started earlier, but Beame finished the job.
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 06:21:29 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 06:02:40 2016. Heh. Rural area ... lulz. Saratoga county from the looks of it, upstate's East Meadow. :) |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:41:13 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Feb 3 21:09:36 2016. I disagree. The problem with the subway setup is that it's Manhattan-centric. There is an exponential need for inter-borough rail service between Brooklyn and Queens, and between Queens and The Bronx. Examples of meeting this need: De Blasio's proposal; converting the Montauk/Rockaway Beach lines to light rail; or many more possibilities. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:42:22 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Feb 3 23:12:48 2016. Yes. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:45:28 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 4 23:46:53 2016. With frequent enough service, and 2 or 3 car LRT trains, an inter-borough line like Waterfront would actually provide more available capacity on the subway lines that enter Manhattan, by diverting riders who don't need to go through Manhattan to get where they're going. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 11:46:43 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 06:14:26 2016. Nice. The 70s were never the hellhole people make them out to be.On a personal note, I had my first real job then, and met my wife! |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:47:48 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 4 21:23:53 2016. IAWTP.If I had a choice of a rail ride over a bus ride, I'd go for rail. Much more comfortable. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:49:57 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:45:28 2016. What makes you think there is any real demand for service between one waterfront location and another?There is moderate demand for service between Brooklyn and Queens. That is served quite well by the G. |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:53:36 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 19:57:01 2016. So true, David. A good example is this: When San Francisco's F-Line opened in March 2000, local riders who worked in the North Waterfront area, who had long suffered with bus lines that went to their workplaces, flocked to the F in droves. I can attest to that by operating both the F-Line and the various buses that served that area (32-Embarcadero, 42-Downtown Loop, 30-Stockton, and 15-Third) and most times, buses ran empty. But not the F streetcars! |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:54:48 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 11:46:43 2016. The 70s were never the hellhole people make them out to be.And the 50s weren't as great as people made them out. My sisters went to NYU 1958-62 and 1961-65. They NEVER walked through Washington Square Park. One of their professors got mugged there and his jaw broken, though they avoided the park even before that. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:56:20 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:53:36 2016. do you see the same thing happening here? |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:59:59 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Feb 5 00:56:20 2016. Actually, Bob Diamond supports the proposal. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 12:01:31 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:54:48 2016. So true. Today it's an oasis. |
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