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| Re: end of bar cars on new Haven (1289086) | |
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| (1289226) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue May 6 13:40:07 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Wow, that's too bad! I remember when I was 21 being so excited to buy drinks on the New Haven line.... |
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| (1289227) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue May 6 13:43:18 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 5 21:47:18 2014. Why does everyone buying a drink mean they are getting drunk? |
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| (1289228) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue May 6 13:44:50 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue May 6 08:43:40 2014. But some of the incentive to using the train is so you DON"T drive and drink to a location. It's a double edged sword as you would just be taking away one of the incentives to take the train to begin with. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1289234) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue May 6 14:22:19 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue May 6 13:40:07 2014. Of course, the New Haven Railroad does not exist any more!!! |
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| (1289239) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue May 6 14:40:00 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue May 6 14:22:19 2014. It's still called the New Haven Line, which is what Chris and the original article called it. |
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| (1289240) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 14:45:35 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Too bad. I'm glad I got a chance to ride in it almost 10 years ago on the "Farewell to the FL9" tour. That time they served regular food, not alcohol. |
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| (1289247) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 16:24:57 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 13:29:48 2014. posted every year with budget. |
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| (1289250) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 6 16:29:15 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 09:00:41 2014. Hey Sam ... play it again. :) |
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| (1289251) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 16:30:01 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Last in service bar car will be Friday on train 1574, after that some cars might still see service for week but not as bar car. |
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| (1289253) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven=sharia railroad |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 6 16:34:11 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Fakt. |
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| (1289254) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 6 16:37:22 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 09:01:49 2014. "faceplant" ... what a wonderful word! :) |
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| (1289255) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 6 16:38:06 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:28:38 2014. Although it did usually get a bit louder in there after Montrose. :) |
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| (1289264) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 17:04:31 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 16:24:57 2014. Why would the budget include such a detailed and specific figure?Anyhow, I'm trying to find it but there are many different documents and some of them are quite large. Can you provide any more specific direction as to what document and where in the document? |
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| (1289265) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue May 6 17:10:52 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:22:08 2014. vomit generated by stupid suburban kidsNormally, that is true. But one New Years Eve I worked the 2:05 am out of Newark, and unbelievably... no one threw up the entire trip. HOWEVER... between Somerville and Raritan (the last 2 stops) a middle aged gentleman took a shit all over the bathroom... it was everywhere BUT in the bowl! The only reason I knew about it was because the whole car suddenly smelled like shit as we pulled into the yard, and I opened the bathroom door... :-( |
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| (1289268) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 6 17:22:25 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue May 6 17:10:52 2014. He must've went quickly, those stations are relatively close. I'd have to start somewhere around Bound Brook. |
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| (1289281) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:53:21 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 10:25:45 2014. Doesn't matter whether the bar car is in the front, middle, or back. It can't be attached to an M8 so the train it's in will have a railfan window.I don't suppose there's any way to predict which trains will be hauling them around? |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue May 6 17:54:19 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. This is sad. I made quite a few friends and business connections in the bar cars when I rode the New Haven back in the 1980s. Yet another simple pleasure I was able to enjoy that younger folks won't. |
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| (1289283) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:57:55 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 11:31:01 2014. Figuring out the schedule for bar cars (if there is one) avoids annoying train crews or normal commuters with railfan-related questions. It can also allow me to determine which trains to ride with greater precision, which is helpful; if I have a more comprehensive schedule with several choices, an express out of New Haven is better than a local out of Stamford, and of the former, an express which bypasses Fordham is better than one that stops there. |
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| (1289284) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue May 6 17:58:32 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 6 17:22:25 2014. LOL! He WAS quick! I couldn't believe how fast he "destroyed" that bathroom! |
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| (1289288) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 6 18:12:21 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 12:21:35 2014. I'm not buying the seating argument either. Folks will pack on to the trains no matter the number of seats. When Metro North has to turn people away because there isn't enough overall space for them, then the argument becomes valid. I agree with you about the bang-for-the-buck of a platform "bar" vs a bar car. Still, wish they weren't going. |
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| (1289297) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 18:55:58 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:56:44 2014. Put on your sunday shoes. |
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| (1289298) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 18:57:51 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:57:55 2014. Obviously. The point is that you can't figure out the schedule for the bar cars, which thus makes it an ineffective method for finding a railfan window. Assuming the info is correct about the final revenue bar car train this Friday, you still need to consult an employee of MNCR to find out which train or trains will have that car westbound. |
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| (1289299) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 19:11:15 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Save them all for Fan Trips.   
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| (1289303) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue May 6 20:07:09 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:53:21 2014. Don't the engineers kick open the doors for their safety still? |
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| (1289305) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 20:22:22 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 19:11:15 2014. their all sold to Frontier recycling in ohio already. |
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| (1289312) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 20:53:38 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:57:55 2014. Do I see a lament by you next week that you never rode inside one?You only had 40 years to do so! |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 21:02:21 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:57:55 2014. "Figuring out the schedule for bar cars (if there is one)"Years ago MN used to have "turn sheets" which dictated what turned for what train, which included the consist of each run it was assigned to. Example: 804-809...7PP. Translation 804 being the train in from Poke 809 being the train northbound. Even # in, odd # out. 7PP meant 7 bomb cars, engine on north end, cab car on the south end, aka push-pull configuration. On the NH side, their trains would be noted on the sheet as 8M2-C. Translation 8 M2 cars with a cafe car as bar cars were officially known as in the employee timetable.As to where they were spotted in the train was a crap shoot. Make the hitch do the brake test & leave town was the rush hour rule. So the crew, if they had access to these sheets knew exactly what was in their train unless told otherwise by the trainmaster on duty at the traimnasters office on TK 25, overriding the "sheet" These sheets with consists were prepared by a dept called Fleet Mgt. They called the shots as in what went where & when. Those are the guys that have to make the swaps when something shits out..& hope it works out. THATS the worst,thankless job on the Railroad. No matter what you do, somebody always gets screwed. |
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| (1289320) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 21:53:35 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:28:38 2014. True but when you rode a barcar on the Poughkeepsie train, drinking and driving was not only allowed but expected :)your pal, Fred |
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| (1289321) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 22:03:59 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue May 6 20:07:09 2014. It's been a little while since I rode Metro-North but I've never had much of a problem. Worst case, the close off the front but I can still take video even if I'm not right up against the glass. |
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| (1289322) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 22:06:32 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 6 16:37:22 2014. But not a pretty sight :)your pal, Fred |
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| (1289325) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 22:12:45 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 20:53:38 2014. I've ridden in bar cars at least twice, and had a drink on at least one occasion in which, for legal reasons, I deny that I was underage.What I didn't do was record railfan window video from a westbound train. (Several attempts to do so were foiled by an uncooperative sun glaring everything up.) And how could I have had 40 years to ride when I'm not yet 40 years old? If I could ride trains before I was born, I'd have covered the 9th avenue el, the New York, Westchester, and Boston, and the relatively rare B&O trains that ran into Penn Station during World War I. |
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| (1289326) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 22:21:31 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 19:11:15 2014. "... Its a quarter to three, so set em up, Joe, no one in the place but you & me...":( |
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| (1289327) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Tue May 6 22:39:53 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 22:23:39 2014. Looks like I'm heading there next! :P |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Ray Jules on Tue May 6 22:43:09 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by R46 5636 on Tue May 6 22:39:53 2014. Hi R62 1345! |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue May 6 23:41:10 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. There's an old New Yorker cartoon drawn by Peter Arno, it features the New Haven bar car with a guy complaining "You call this a dry martini? This is a hell of a way to run a railroad!" |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 7 00:02:31 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 22:06:32 2014. Haven't added a new word to my vocabulary in a while. That one got put on the refrigerator door. It's perfect! :) |
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| (1289395) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 11:10:16 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 17:04:31 2014. Bump. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 7 11:58:03 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 11:10:16 2014. you want documents, find them yourself, im not your foot soldier.If that fails try FOIA |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 7 12:48:01 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 23:00:25 2014. There are 4 bar cars left.There is a train with a bar car that leaves GCT at 12:08 and arrives New Haven at 2:04. There is another train with a bar car that leaves GCT at 1:08 and arrives New Haven at 3:03. There is a third train with a bar car that leaves GCT at 2:08 and arrives New Haven at 4:04. So at 2:05PM on a weekday, 3 of the four bar cars are either in New Haven or on their way to New Haven -- and they all need to be back at GCT at some point during the PM rush. The next scheduled bar cars out of GCT are at 5:26, 5:48 and 6:15. Since there are only 4 bar cars, two of those three trains must be the bar cars that were on the 12:08 and 1:08 out of GCT. The only departures out of New Haven after 2:04 that make it back to GCT before 6:15 are the 2:20, 2:46, 3:30 and 3:50 departures. So two of those 4 trains must have bar cars. It can't be the case that the two earlier trains have bar cars since the 1:08 departure from doesn't arrive in New Haven until 3:03. Therefore, either the 3:30 or the 3:50 out of New Haven must have a bar car. So my suggestion is to park yourself at New Haven at 3:25 and take whichever one is a bar car. The above presumes that there aren't any non-revenue runs from NH to GCT before the rush hour -- but quickly looking at the number of scheduled arrivals and departures in New Haven during the mid-day there appears to be at best a 1:1 correspondence and at worst more scheduled service going towards GCT. Good luck. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 13:10:25 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 7 11:58:03 2014. But you said you were familiar with the figures I was requesting and noted that one was four times the other. How can that be if you don't know anything about where to find those numbers? Seems to me that you were either mistaken or less than truthful. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 13:17:36 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Charles G on Wed May 7 12:48:01 2014. How do you know this? How do you know the bar car set consist won't just go into service straight out of the GCT yard?Also, from reading the bar car website for several weeks ending about a month ago, most days only 1 train or no trains have staffed bar cars, even though the schedule calls for several such trains. So you don't know that any of those scheduled bar car runs will run with either an operating bar car or a closed bar car or even non-M8 cars. |
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| (1289406) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 7 13:28:36 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 13:17:36 2014. I am just going off the .pdf timetable that is on the MNR website, which includes the bar car reference mark.If the trains in the schedule that have the bar car symbol do indeed have bar cars, then I'm about 99.9% certain that one can go with my analysis. If MNR isn't sticking to the timetable when it comes to running trains with bar cars then I have nothing to offer. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 7 14:08:20 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 13:10:25 2014. did you read original article or are you gone micro fuck my post ?? |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 14:10:27 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 7 14:08:20 2014. Huh? I specifically asked about figures that were NOT in the article. Did you read what I asked for? Reading comprehension fail? |
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| (1289412) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 7 14:11:08 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 14:10:27 2014. you can ask all you want, find it yourself. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 14:28:06 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Charles G on Wed May 7 13:28:36 2014. Thanks. Yes, they have not been sticking to the schedule as far as having staffed bar cars, according to that website. But that doesn't mean those trains didn't still run with unstaffed bar cars. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Wed May 7 14:28:25 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 20:22:22 2014. Recycle 'em into diners! |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 14:31:39 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 7 14:11:08 2014. I did ask all I wanted. You responsed that you were familiar with the figures I was asking about but it turns out that was a lie. So my question still stands. While the bar carts in total make much more money, it has not yet been shown that they also make more money on a per employee/location per hour of sales operation basis. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Wed May 7 14:48:08 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 13:10:25 2014. He lied. It was all an Obama conspiracy to get you to search through documents that did not have the information you needed.Oh wait. Wrong nut case. My apologies. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 7 18:21:04 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 7 14:31:39 2014. While the bar carts in total make much more money, it has not yet been shown that they also make more money on a per employee/location per hour of sales operation basis.Am I reading you incorrectly? It seems that you believe the bar cars would make more on a per employee/location basis than the bar carts would. That would be a very surprising and counter-intuitive result. Put yourself in the role of a small businessman. MNR gives you a choice. Option 1 -- You can have a car to yourself for two hours on the 5:45 Grand Central to New Haven and sell to a captive audience of 100-125 people at the start of the trip that will dwindle to perhaps a few dozen for the last 30 minutes. Option 2 -- You can have a cart in between two platforms. The customers accessing 4 tracks will need to walk within 10 yards of your stand. Over the two hour period from 5:30 to 7:30 you will have somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 passing within 10 yards of your stand (figure four trains per track in that time period, 500 or so people per train). Do you have to think more than 10 seconds before choosing the cart? Now think about it from the MNR perspective. They already have both bar cars and bar carts -- but the bar cars actually cannibalize sales from the bar carts. If they didn't have bar cars, the customers would just buy from the bar carts as they got on the train -- even further improving the per employee/location metrics of the bar carts. |
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