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| Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' (1236258) | |
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| (1236543) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Oct 26 09:03:33 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:21:40 2014. Even more were built by the English government, |
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| (1236544) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Charles G on Sun Oct 26 09:14:47 2014, in response to More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 00:49:33 2014. It isn't clear how many of the renunciations are "real" (an American citizen who lived a substantial part of their life in the US), or who actively obtained US citizenship at some point in their life) and how many are from "non-American" Americans (those born overseas to an American citizen parent who obtained US citizenship "just because they could")Given the FATCA-related realities of being a "US person" outside the US these days, it makes plenty of sense to give up the blue passport if you have another and have no plans to ever live or work in the US. Much of the surge in renunciations is being driven by FATCA, as "US persons" are frequently persona non-grata at many non-US financial institutions. |
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| (1236545) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Charles G on Sun Oct 26 09:16:52 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:08:05 2014. How did the government "pay for it"? Where did they find the money to "pay for it"? |
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| (1236548) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 09:51:11 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 08:44:58 2014. There you have it. They are no longer counted as unemployed. This has been the standard federal government use of the word "unemployed" for many decades.Yes I am aware of the fact. Spider-Pig never said anything at all about the "civilian labor force participation rate." I am the one that brought up subject of the labor participation rate. By the way, did you try extending the time period shown back to 1950? You can see that this rate correlates weakly with economic activity. You would see that the steepest climb ever was during the Carter Administration. Yes I did. In fact I went back to 1948 when those statistics were first compiled looking for a similar trend. Fact is this is the first time in the history of collecting these statistics that both labor participation rate and the unemployment rate had a significant decline at the same time. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1236550) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 09:59:30 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 09:51:11 2014. Fact is this is the first time in the history of collecting these statistics that both labor participation rate and the unemployment rate had a significant decline at the same time.Which leads to the questions of why. It could be baby boomers retiring, inherent underutilization in the economy, or both. |
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| (1236551) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 10:00:51 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 09:51:11 2014. Yes I am aware of the fact.Then why would you agree with Olog that you "pwn3d" Spider-Pig? |
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| (1236552) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 10:14:45 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 09:51:11 2014. I am the one that brought up subject of the labor participation rate.Actually, it was Olog-hai. Which would tell you something about the validity of bringing it up in the first place. |
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| (1236553) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 10:19:32 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 26 00:56:01 2014. No. It's about as much extortion as debt collection is. |
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| (1236558) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:41:41 2014, in response to "Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs", posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 08:43:42 2014. Anyone who votes for this alleged woman for anything is an idiot! |
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| (1236559) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:43:03 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 00:59:53 2014. Believe it or not, I agree with you. |
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| (1236560) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 11:45:03 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:41:41 2014. alleged womanShe's not a woman? |
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| (1236562) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:46:50 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 11:45:03 2014. I think she's a lesbian. |
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| (1236564) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Oct 26 11:50:16 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:46:50 2014. Last I checked Lesbians are women and not a separate gender |
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| (1236565) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:50:56 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by mtk52983 on Sun Oct 26 11:50:16 2014. OK fine! |
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| (1236570) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 12:28:30 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 10:14:45 2014. Actually, it was Olog-hai.I suggest you check the posting times and dates in this thread, I was the person that brought up subject of the labor participation rate first. Which would tell you something about the validity of bringing it up in the first place. I have known about the dropping labor participation rate for sometime now and I learned about it long before it reported by the old media. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1236571) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:29:20 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 12:28:30 2014. The last thing that arachnosus cares about is facts. |
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| (1236572) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:30:27 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:41:41 2014. She's well known as a radical from way back when her husband got voted in as POTUS. Never mind her husband himself. |
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| (1236574) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:31:17 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 08:23:32 2014. The liberals were pointing that out when Bush was president, but suddenly forgot about it after 2009. |
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| (1236575) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:36:06 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Dave on Sun Oct 26 07:28:34 2014. The brainwash is on. Not even the Europeans want to do things the way Europeans have done them for centuries, anymore. Germany has had state-owned railroads since 1871, but they've proven inefficient. |
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| (1236576) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:36:54 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 00:59:53 2014. When the USA is further left than they, with the highest corporate tax on the planet, there's nothing the USA can offer them, is there? |
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| (1236577) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:38:36 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Charles G on Sun Oct 26 09:14:47 2014. Is not FATCA exemplary of greedy government? |
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| (1236578) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:39:36 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 09:51:11 2014. The libs attacked the government's use of "labor force participation rate" versus when Bush was president, remember. |
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| (1236581) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:02:40 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Charles G on Sun Oct 26 09:14:47 2014. As a finance professional who frequently deals with expatriate US citizens, I can confirm that there are a material number of individuals I've personally dealt with who are either in the process of giving up their US citizenship or are seriously considering doing so on account of FATCA.The one thing the article is not quite correct on is the way the US taxes income vs. how other countries do so. There are, in fact, a large number of countries that Tax worldwide income - the US is not unique in that respect. Where the US stands out is that it taxes worldwide income of both residents and citizens who are not resident, while just about all other countries do not tax non-resident citizens. The effect of the US approach is that there are frequent instances of true double taxation, where the individual has to pay tax on the same income to both the jurisdiction where he is resident and to the US - not to mention the hassle of filing US returns, even when no tax is due. The situation is even worse when the individual is self-employed, where there is very often no offset available for self-employment tax. So, while there are some that do abuse the system, much of what's been going on is a result of a uniquely American overreach into the pockets of US citizens living abroad. subfan |
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| (1236582) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 13:08:27 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:02:40 2014. I'm not following.Doesn't the US give a dollar for dollar credit for taxes paid to a foreign government? Surely no one would give up their citizenship just to avoid the hassle of hiring a US accountant to do their tax return. As for self-employment tax, if you double pay that don't you earn social security benefits in both countries? |
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| (1236584) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:11:05 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:02:40 2014. It's only "uniquely American" insofar as how far US leftists in DC have gone compared to other leftists. Otherwise, you're spot on. |
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| (1236587) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Oct 26 13:16:23 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 11:41:41 2014. Heh? Nobody is denying she's a woman. Except you. |
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| (1236588) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:20:02 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 13:08:27 2014. In theory, the US gives a dollar-for-dollar credit for tax paid abroad; however, in practice, there are often mismatches that result in double tax. These can be things like when Tax is due in one country vs. the other, different Tax year ends, etc. I agree the system is not designed to cause double tax, but I can assure you that it often does anyway.As to social/self-employment tax - I suppose if one gives a lifetime of contributions to bother the US and the other country, they would collect from both. That being said, I'd tend to think most people would not want to do so - would you be willing to pay double social security (FICA) taxes for your career if it would get you double benefits on retirement? subfan |
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| (1236589) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 13:20:28 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 08:07:03 2014. We paid double when we ran the software company. There was just four of us back then. And while I'm currently an employee, spent most of my life as 1099 or self-employed as well. |
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| (1236590) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 13:21:07 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:31:17 2014. And hey ... LOTS more people are employed now that he's gone. |
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| (1236591) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:22:52 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:11:05 2014. It's uniquely American and has been so for decades, regardless of which party has been in power. What's changed now is FATCA - which effectively forces foreign financial institutions to do the IRS's work for them.subfan |
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| (1236592) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:23:10 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:20:02 2014. In theory, the US gives a dollar-for-dollar credit for tax paid abroad; however, in practice, there are often mismatches that result in double taxTax form games? |
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Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:24:22 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:23:10 2014. ?? Not sure what you mean.subfan |
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| (1236595) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:24:33 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:22:52 2014. No, it's not American. It's European. The one unique thing about it is how onerous it is.The European Union is going after so-called "tax havens" albeit in a different manner. |
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Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:26:05 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:24:22 2014. I'm guessing a multiplicity of paperwork in order to actually get the tax credit that is due. You seem to be saying that FATCA does not necessarily have to be a barrier to getting the tax credit. |
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| (1236597) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 13:27:24 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:38:36 2014. No, it's exemplary of unpatriotic tax cheats who fear getting caught largely. Good riddance. Let them sponge off somebody else. It's not like they were planning to pay their taxes anyway. Other jurisdictions are likely to be even more unkind once they catch up to them. |
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Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 13:27:46 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:20:02 2014. OK, thanks.would you be willing to pay double social security (FICA) taxes for your career if it would get you double benefits on retirement? Quite possibly. Actuarially, social security is not such a bad deal. |
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| (1236599) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:30:52 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:24:33 2014. No, it's American, not European. All European countries tax based on residency only, not citizenship. In fact, the only country that I'm aware of, other than the US, that taxes based on residency or citizenship is Eritrea.I don't recommend challenging me on this one - I have been working in the International Tax area for over 20 years. subfan |
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| (1236600) | |
Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:35:06 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 13:26:05 2014. The paperwork is another schedule to attach to your tax return. It is a bit of a pain to complete, but not all that difficult.And no, FATCA does nothing to prevent claiming the credit. In fact, what I've found to be the main issue with FATCA is that foreign banks, etc. don't want to deal with US citizens, since the requirements it imposes on them are so onerous. subfan |
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Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 13:37:11 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:36:54 2014. We can offer them the Bahamian Army! These guys from the Royal Bahamian Defense Force will be proud to guard your money clip against terrorists and revenuers. :)
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Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 26 13:37:36 2014, in response to Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 13:27:46 2014. OK, but you would likely be in the minority, and there are a number of people who can not afford an additional 15% current hit against their income now so that they'll get social security when they retire.subfan |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 13:50:47 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by bingbong on Sun Oct 26 13:16:23 2014. Again, who is your congressman? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Oct 26 14:13:07 2014, in response to "Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs", posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 08:43:42 2014. what about the WAR industry ( government ) ?? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 14:25:27 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 13:50:47 2014. Where do Selkirk and bingbong live? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 14:27:29 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 12:28:30 2014. FALSE! I just looked at view flat, and your very first post in this thread was in response to Olog-hai's claim about a "real unemployment rate." |
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| (1236610) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 14:28:21 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:29:20 2014. The last thing that Olog-hai cares about is sanity. |
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| (1236611) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sun Oct 26 14:40:23 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 14:25:27 2014. Upstate New York. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Oct 26 14:53:27 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Oct 26 14:13:07 2014. Government contracts with industries who hire employees. But indirectly, yes, you are correct. That doesn't account for all of the drop in unemployment, however. |
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| (1236615) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Oct 26 15:00:43 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:29:02 2014. It includes far more individuals that are in their prime working years.Based on the anecdotes that I've seen, I suspect it's partially from young people engaged in full-time schooling while residing with or off their parents, and sadly, young men who are unemployable due to a lack of schooling and skills and a criminal record. Those men work under the table with support from their parents and girlfriends, and without those supports, I suspect they return back to criminal behaviour or become homeless. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 15:01:20 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Dave on Sun Oct 26 14:53:27 2014. Many different factors, involving both government and private business, affect the unemployment rate and the total number of jobs. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Oct 26 15:02:10 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 12:36:06 2014. but they've proven inefficient
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