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| (349555) | |
Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 25 12:49:51 2024 Today is September 25, 2024. If you go to the MTA website to find out what is happening with the Brooklyn Study, you have to click three times just to find it. It says the site was updated August 7th, 2024. But all the 2023 events are still listed as “future events”. I notified the new NYCT President of this glaring error over a month ago. Yet nothing was done.If the MTA cannot be trusted to correctly update its website, how can they be trusted to do competent adequate planning? |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Sep 26 17:19:20 2024, in response to Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 25 12:49:51 2024. There are so many things wrong with this plan.And so many improvements. One silly idea is the B53, without bus lanes installed along Broadway. Broadway is notorious for traffic issues. So much so,that delays to bus service is a daily feature. There Should be bus lanes on BOTH SIDES OF BROADWAY, with restrictions to on street parking and deliveries. Days,no parking on both sides. Evenings and nights parking, loading and delivery is permitted. Next is the removal of the B15 from Lewis Ave, and the B43 from Tompkins Ave, basically combining the routes along Marcus Garvey Blvd and Throop Ave. Creating walking hazards for riders, especially seniors and disabled doesn't seem to "help" anyone. The lack of Any SBS service, limited service, trimming bus service from the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza, dividing services into two different bus routes. Not restoring vital connections removed during 2010. We need people familiar with the system, and neighborhoods the routes run through, to know how to adjust service. Not some folks just looking at a map. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 27 08:51:02 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Thu Sep 26 17:19:20 2024. And don’t forget the elimination of 1000 bus stops. Even the good parts like a bus for the length of Empire Blvd and a extending the B16 to run on Clarkson and the B55 to JFK on Church, (all of which I suggested) all could have been done better. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 13:41:04 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 27 08:51:02 2024. Absolutely.Some routes Should get the limited/SBS treatment for North Brooklyn. The B15 to the Airport was a prime candidate for it, but was deliberately held out of the program. Why? Quick access to the airport would have helped the route, even a limited stop route. It's like the TA deliberately sabotaged the line. What happened to the SBS from Ridgewood to Downtown? The 38 limited is constrained because of DeKalb Ave above Myrtle Ave. Narrow street, bad parking situation,split terminals. The Better route for limited service would have been the B26 and 54! The 52 should have a limited service. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 28 18:31:46 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 13:41:04 2024. The bike lanes on DeKalb and Lafayette crippled those streets by eliminating half the capacity. . A few months ago, it took me 15 minutes to go a quarter mile by car on Lafayette. The bus must even be slower. When they made them one way, you could average 25 mph and travel by car from Stuyvesant to Flatbush in about 5 to ten minutes. Of course the bus was slower, but probably three times faster than it is today. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 21:08:50 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 28 18:31:46 2024. You definitely don't need "bike lanes" all over the place.We.Do Need Bus Lanes all over the place. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 28 23:53:32 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 21:08:50 2024. IAWTP |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Sep 29 01:04:19 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 21:08:50 2024. I agree. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Sep 29 04:56:47 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 28 18:31:46 2024. Absolutely.DeKalb is now one lane. Lafayette is also one lane. Some traffic calming projects aren't necessary on some streets, like DeKalb and the other, but is necessary on streets like Broadway, where traffic blockages are common. I actually hate driving along that street. The same could be said of Fulton st. The DOT can do better if it wanted to. One thing for sure,any "bus improvements" plan depends on correcting the flow of car and truck capacity on every street they operate on. The 53 won't work if Broadway remains the same. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 29 09:19:31 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Sun Sep 29 04:56:47 2024. Double parking by trucks is the biggest problem for traffic. On Brighton Beach Avenue the buses can get stuck for ten or 15 minutes for a quarter mile when fruit trucks are unloading at five fruit stores for three hours and this is legal because there are no delivery zones there. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sun Sep 29 10:18:58 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Sep 28 18:31:46 2024. Bus lanes alone do not result in faster buses. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 29 11:05:13 2024, in response to Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 25 12:49:51 2024. The MTA should’ve hired Jarrett Walker’s firm to do its redesigns. Suffolk Transit still has some reliability and ridership issues, but his firm did a great job in redesigning that system despite the financial and political constraints they had to deal with. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 29 11:13:26 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 29 11:05:13 2024. So you are saying the MTA isn’t competent to do redesigns. If so, why do they have an Operations Planning Department?I believe they did hire Sam Schwartz which means the same person who was screwing up their planning in the 1970s, is still screwing up their planning today. The only way he cannot be blamed is if the MTA told him the redesign must save X amount of money. The way to do a redesign is to intelligently invest some money to grow ridership, not to cut service. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 30 03:55:46 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 29 11:13:26 2024. Although I don’t recall having met you, we both worked in the Operations Planning Department. I worked in Rapid Schedules and often had dealings with managers in the planning sections and I wouldn’t exactly give them high marks for any sort of competence when it comes to service patterns. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 08:11:46 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 30 03:55:46 2024. I believe you worked there before me. When I was there, Rapid Schedules were in RTO and bus Schedules were in Surface. Our department only numbered about 35 when I was there for a year and a half from July 1881 to November 1982. Before that I was in Surface. I don’t think we met there, but could have met when I was in Car Equioment at many of the field meetings I attended at Coney Island, Jamaica, Concourse, or Pitkin. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Allen45 on Mon Sep 30 08:21:33 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 29 11:13:26 2024. He tried to ban cars in Manhattan. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 09:39:31 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 29 11:13:26 2024. I believe they did hire Sam Schwartz which means the same person who was screwing up their planning in the 1970s, is still screwing up their planning today.The MTA/NYCT did not hire Sam Schwartz. From his book "Street Smart, The Rise of Cities and the Fall of Cars, pp 44-45: "When I graduated with a master of science in transportation engineering, I was ready to return home, and get a job working for the New York City Transit Authority, the public agency responsible for running the world's largest urban transit system. Unfortunately, they weren't ready for me. Ever since 1953, when the Transit Authority had acquired New York's three separate subway systems, two bus networks, and what remained of the city's streetcars, almost all transit professionals had been former conductors, train engineers, and bus drivers. A graduate degree from an Ivy League school didn't even merit a response...I was offered a job at the Department of Traffic as a junior engineer. In March 1971, I showed up for work." |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 09:44:09 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 09:39:31 2024. I meant I think they hired him as a consultant, not as an employee. However a current employee of Sam Schwartz spent his entire career at MTA Surface and did all the bus planning there until 1981 when I was hired to assume his function as the chief bus planner. He was the one who probably designed the first draft if indeed the MTA hired Sam Schwartz as a consultant. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 10:05:30 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 09:44:09 2024. I meant I think they hired him as a consultant, not as an employee.I very much doubt it. I became acquainted with Sam in early 1978, when he was with NYCDOT as Director of Planning. I was a member of a citizens advisory committee that was formed by the Koch Administration. We met regularly, discussing several traffic issues. There are many constraints regarding outside consulting for full time NYC employees. I doubt Sam would risk his DOT professional job for outside consulting. Indeed, Sam has hesitant about being promoted to First Deputy Commissioner because he would loose civil service status. However a current employee of Sam Schwartz spent his entire career at MTA Surface and did all the bus planning there until 1981 when I was hired to assume his function as the chief bus planner. He was the one who probably designed the first draft if indeed the MTA hired Sam Schwartz as a consultant. There's something amiss with this timeline. Sam Schwartz Engineering wasn't formed until 1995. Ergo, nobody working since 1981 could have spent his career at Sam Schwartz Engineering. Sam Schwartz sold the company and its name in 2015. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 10:21:38 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 10:05:30 2024. Are you saying he when he formed his engineering firm in 1995, he was stil an NYC employee?I never said the person I was referring to who was the chief NYCTA bus planner until Feb 1981 spent his entire career at Sam Schwartz engineering. I said he spent his entire career at the NYCTA until he retired and got a job working for Sam Schwartz who had already left NYC by that time. As far as I know he is still working at the company whether it is still owned by Sam Schwartz or not. So I do t see a problem with the timeline. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 13:02:44 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 10:21:38 2024. Here's a link to a book jacket bio that should answer Sam's timeline.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001KE2L9S/about He worked full time for NYC from 1971 to 1990. Commissioners are not civil service. Sam was replaced by the Dinkens Admin. He worked for a consulting firm from 1991 to 1995. He started Sam Schwartz Engineering in 1995. From other sources, he sold Sam Schwartz Engineering and retired in 2015. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 13:08:50 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 13:02:44 2024. None of that contradicts with what I stated. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 1 01:35:18 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 30 10:05:30 2024. Information is Power.However,it can also be irrelevant at the same time. I am more concerned about how to get the MTA to rethink it royal screw up, Before they push it through. To be honest,if some of those route changes get implemented,there will be serious push back from every community affected. Sometimes,"change" isn't necessary. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 1 03:23:59 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 30 08:11:46 2024. I was in schedules when it was part of RTO and in 1983 I left schedules to go to the road as a provisional trainmaster. During that time, the Kiley/Gunn administration took over the MTA/NYCTA and decided to eliminate the trainmaster title and similar titles in other departments. The particular exam I took was the subject of litigation which I won’t go into now and we weren’t allowed to be made permanent pending a final court decision. At some point, I was told that the entire Schedule Office was going managerial so before I had a chance to become a permanent trainmaster, I took a voluntary demotion back to my permanent title of schedule maker and eventually became what was known as a “schedule manager.” schedule manager was an office title so I had to also had to have a permanent non competitive corresponding civil service title. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 1 11:06:36 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Sep 29 11:13:26 2024. An agency undertaking a network redesign basically has to manage two systems simultaneously. Are you suggesting the MTA should have an operations planning department that is large enough to handle both tasks? |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 1 11:38:49 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 1 11:06:36 2024. In 1981, when Bus Operations Planning, then known as Surface, was separate from Rapid Transit Operations Planning. I headed the Surface Operations Planning Department (which was separate from Surface Scheduling, and Surface Transportation which handled day to day operations. I was charged with completing the Brooklyn Transit Service Sufficiency Study, whose mission was to redesign the entire Brooklyn bus system with a staff of only 12 people. It would have been successfully completed it if I was allowed to complete it if I was not sabatoged by my own boss when we were merged in July 1981 with Rapid Transit Operations Planning to become Operations Planning with a staff of 35.My staff was reduced to five. I had developed a plan to change about half the bus routes and began the process of going out to the communities when my boss insisted that for each proposal, I develop five alternative proposals and prepare separate proposals for each community board which was totally unrealistic. After I did all that and he was ready to go out to the communities, I told him the proposals no longer made any sense and I would not put my name on the plan. I was then replaced. So to answer your question. When Operations Planning added Surface and Rapid Schedules and day to day functions, its staff increased to over 300. If I was expected to complete this task with a staff of five and could have done it, why should Operations Planning need consultants today? |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 1 15:40:50 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 1 11:38:49 2024. Because any operations planning group has far more to do these days than in the 1980s (or even just 10 or 15 years ago). |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 1 17:55:56 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 1 15:40:50 2024. How so? |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 1 23:49:42 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 1 17:55:56 2024. The amount of data that these departments must keep up to date that is public facing via GTFS feeds and CAD/AVL systems is immense. Many agencies struggle to keep it sufficiently updated. In some cases, meeting the standards that OpenMobility and other entities have set for high quality GTFS feeds requires significant revisions of SOPs that impact NTD reporting and have other impacts, including financial ones. Now that a GTFS feed is a required component of NTD reporting, maintaining this data becomes even more critical.I have plenty of issues with how GTFS works as a standard, but it is here to stay whether you like it or not. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Oct 2 11:30:48 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 1 23:49:42 2024. Are you even sure that function is under Operations Planning? There is (or was) a Technioogy and Information Systems Department which I believe would handle that function. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Oct 7 10:27:52 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Oct 2 11:30:48 2024. Things vary from agency to agency and larger ones may have separate groups, but do you think the Technology Group is actually doing the work of determining where bus stops are, schedule data is accurate, and making sure GIS files are up to date? At the end of the day, the technology folks are using the information provided to them from planning. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Oct 7 11:32:56 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Oct 7 10:27:52 2024. As far as determining where the bus stops are, all the MTA is doing is looking at Google maps and proposing to eliminate every other one. Just look at the existing and proposed B3. They are not doing any analysis. That’s why they are proposing to eliminate bus stops in front of senior centers and supermarkets. Then they look at the complaints and restore the ones with the most complaints and eliminate others they intended to keep. Bus stops with shelters are mostly high utilized stops. So why is the MTA eliminating these stops also?If you are not going to do the job correctly by only eliminating the 5% that need to be eliminated, then it doesn’t take a massive amount of time or staff to do the job. One person can do the entire job in one day. As far as ensuring that schedule data is accurate, if anything, that job is easier today than it was 40 years ago. And it up is possible that functions related to GIS data falls under the technology group, so I don’t buy your initial assumption that the functions of Operations Planning have increased so much that they need a consultant to do redesign planning. The functions may even be fewer. Many of the functions now performed by government relations used to be performed by Operations Planning when I was there. In 1981 when I was preparing my proposed route changes, the person assigned to interact with communities worked for me, not Government Relations which didn’t exist then. There was only a Public Information Department. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 8 00:29:05 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Oct 7 11:32:56 2024. I'm just telling you my experience, both past and ongoing, with many agencies in the US as well as elsewhere in the world. But seeing as all your anecdotes are from the 1980s and mine are from today and given the wide range of locations where I've had a hand in a network redesign in some fashion, I'm inclined to believe I have a better sense of what is going on in this realm than you do. And there's no way one can determine which stops should be eliminated in a network redesign in a single day and do a good job. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 8 08:23:35 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Oct 8 00:29:05 2024. Of course there is no way one can determine which stops should be eliminated in one day and do a good job. That is exactly what I said. But it seems like that is exactly what the MTA did. Otherwise they never would have eliminated s many stops that are needed a which will just inconvenience people. Did you see the post by Stephen Bauman where he proved that massive bus stop elimination doesn’t even save the buses any time so there is no reason to eliminate 2,400 bus stops which is a major feature of the MTA’s redesign in Brooklyn and Queens. They also have provided no data to show the Bronx redesign serves riders any better. All they have said is that buses operate two percent quicker, but provided no data to show passenger trips are any quicker.My anecdotes from the 1980s are quite relevant in showing the MTA has the resources to perform competent redesigns in house. They just don’t have the talent because they don’t ride the buses so they have no idea what passengers actually have to endure. Most do not complain. You cannot design an adequate system from maps and data alone. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 10 02:10:17 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 8 08:23:35 2024. Well said.Very well said. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Allen45 on Thu Oct 10 09:08:04 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 8 08:23:35 2024. They do not care about riding the buses while the private lines did. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 11 03:50:40 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Allen45 on Thu Oct 10 09:08:04 2024. The private lines were also under the oversight of the state Public Service Commission which unfortunately, has not been the case with the NYCTS since the creation of the NYCTA in 1953. OTOH when i was in Boston in the 1970s, I was told that the T still had to answer to the state Public Utilities Commission. As I mentioned in another post, maybe it’s time to place the NYCTS back under PSC jurisdiction. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 09:37:06 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 28 21:08:50 2024. You don’t need bus lanes in effect when buses operate less frequently than about every five minutes or don’t operate at all. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 09:40:35 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Allen45 on Sun Sep 29 10:18:58 2024. On Woodhaven Blvd, the bus lanes resulted in slower bus travel as the speed limits were lowered from 35 mph to 25 mph. Buses actually travelled at 35 mph. I once tried to pass a bus in my car and it took me one half mile till I was able to overtake that bus. With the bus lanes, car speeds have been cut in half and the buses also crawl. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 09:50:44 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 1 01:35:18 2024. Channel 2 will have a story on the Brooklyn Bus Redesign in two weeks, and not from the MTA point of view. Also, churches and possibly mosques and temples are being organized to protest the atrocity the MTA has proposed. Change is very much needed, but just not the ones proposed. Did you ever see my plan that the MTA has flatly refused to even discuss with me? |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 11 13:10:09 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 09:50:44 2024. Synagogues, not temples. I don’t think the LDS Church has a temple in Brooklyn. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 11 16:51:39 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 09:50:44 2024. Yes,I did.My only objections were you focused more on South Brooklyn. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 17:06:28 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 11 16:51:39 2024. I guess I thought the system in Northern Brooklyn, neighborhoods like Bed Stuy and Wiliamsburg Greenpoint is pretty good and doesn’t need much changing. Certainly not a thinning out of bus routes as the MTA is proposing. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 11 17:19:26 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 09:50:44 2024. Your plan, as well as the MTA's, lacks information that would permit comparison with the present, according to metrics that consider the entire service area.The missing data is a complete schedule, that can be analyzed by computer. The schedule would include the specific geographic coordinates the stops, and route. It would include the stop times for each trip. There is a nearly universal standard format for the data. Such data is available for the MTA since late 2013. Also needed is a metric by which to compare schedules. This metric should be meaningful to the rider, not the operator or planner. My suggestion for such a metric is the total journey time from home to the closest subway station or even the time from home to a point in Manhattan. This metric could be viewed in total (24/7 for the entire service area) or by periods of the day and different sub areas. The metric could be weighted by population or jobs at the trip origin or destination. That's a more comprehensive metric from the riders' perspective than bus speed, distance between stops, bus frequency, etc. Finally, there has to be a cost metric associated with any plan. My suggestion would be the number of scheduled-miles or scheduled-hours. The MTA operates the least efficient bus service in the world by a large margin. By service efficiency I mean $/service-mile or $/service-hour. The NTD metric is vehicle-revenue-mile or vehicle-revenue-hour. The problem is this metric also includes layover time. There's also the NTD's total-vehicle-miles and total-vehicle-hours which include travel between depot and first/last stops for each vehicle. The non-revenue time spent in layovers and travel to/from depots, compared to other operations, is one of the factors that cause the MTA's massive service inefficiency. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 11 22:23:09 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 11 17:06:28 2024. Yes, but some adjustments are needed, but not to the extreme the MTA wants. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 12 03:08:47 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 11 13:10:09 2024. Many Jews I know refer to synagogues as “temples." |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Oct 12 20:51:40 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 11 17:19:26 2024. So are you asking me, one person, to do what the MTA pays an entire department to do?You mention revenue vehicles and revenue hours. Why do you think the MTA is refusing to release that information if they not proposing service cuts? I received a promise from the Deputy director if Government Affairs from the MTA that after the Queens schedules were produced, the existing and proposed revenue hours and miles would be released. Then he denied ever saying that, and changed his statement to its proprietary information and would not be released. Then he got another job, and I never received word on who replaced him because the MTA no longer answers any correspondence from the public except for auto replies. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Oct 13 01:14:09 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Oct 12 20:51:40 2024. what the MTA pays an entire department to doI have not seen the MTA's entire department show the information either. You mention revenue vehicles and revenue hours. Why do you think the MTA is refusing to release that information if they not proposing service cuts? The MTA and all other transit operators in the US release that information to the USDOT. The USDOT publishes that data on a monthly basis on the NTD website. The information is on a system-wide modal basis. after the Queens schedules were produced, the existing and proposed revenue hours and miles would be released. The MTA did release that information in GTFS format, as a result of a FOIL request. That's why I was able to make a serious analysis of the proposal. |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Oct 13 19:46:18 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Oct 13 01:14:09 2024. Did you find the proposed revenue hours and miles to increase or decrease? |
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Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Oct 14 03:13:43 2024, in response to Re: Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Oct 13 19:46:18 2024. there was a decrease in the scheduled mileage and hourshowever, I had no way of estimating layover time/miles. these are included in the NTD VRM, VRH definitions |
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