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| Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night (833837) | |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 17:53:29 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 17:31:53 2009. NYCT, so the various excuses offered as to why OPTO will not work must be falseSo im guessing you totally ignored my posts then huh? Or are you basing your conculsions on what arnine is saying? |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 17:54:06 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 15 17:51:46 2009. If it walks like a duck.... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 15 17:55:28 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by G1Ravage on Tue Sep 15 14:31:58 2009. ... and then you got better. :) |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 15 17:56:23 2009, in response to Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by North-Easten T/O on Tue Sep 15 08:05:07 2009. CBTC: Come Back Tomorrow, Commuters ... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 17:58:05 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by terrapin station on Tue Sep 15 08:31:00 2009. "Last night at around 7:45pm all T/O were ordered by the RCC to put there trains into By-Pass do to a Full line CBTC failure happen on line." |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 17:58:10 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by rr4567 on Tue Sep 15 17:33:19 2009. That is a different issue. If you want a jobs program, put operators back on ALL elevators, abolish direct distance dialing, but first explain why the average worker should pay taxes OR higher retail prices for humans at more than a "living wage" doing work the machines can do better. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Sep 15 17:58:22 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 17:20:58 2009. When DC runs full length trains, the trains are in manual mode because the computer can not berth the train properly since the train takes up the entire platform at some stations.There had door opening on non-fully berth trains when the computer was doing it. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 17:59:08 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 17:17:30 2009. personal saftety? say Oscar Grant. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Tue Sep 15 18:04:47 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by North-Easten T/O on Tue Sep 15 09:32:41 2009. Hmmmmm....No snide reply from you-know-who. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Sep 15 18:05:08 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 17:58:05 2009. Talking to Whineyberg is like talking to a brick wall. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:05:54 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 17:27:52 2009. considering, 1 locked doors on 75 footers, 2 illegal to walk between cars (intensely stupid MTA, CTA, WMATA who all have this rule) just how accessible is the C/R? Secondly, IF you are concerned sabout non operational issues such as medical, crime or escorting PAX account some accident/track blockage, a trained person for those issues roving thru the train is far more useful than a C/R expected to stay in cab operating doord. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by rr4567 on Tue Sep 15 18:07:09 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 17:58:10 2009. Because it takes people to run machines |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Sep 15 18:08:20 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by North-Easten T/O on Tue Sep 15 09:32:41 2009. LOL!It's the only way to talk to a Whineyberg. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 15 18:09:13 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Sep 15 15:12:03 2009. Total wast of money to reduce crew size by halfCBTC is not required to remove the C/R from the train. All NYCT needs are trains and stations that make one person operation possible. The big hurdle is labor negotiations. NYCT has been particularly more inept in this endeavor than other systems that removed the C/R from their trains. Most other systems had the C/R operate from the last car. This eliminated NYCT's 300 foot straw man. Paris went one step further, they moved the C/R into the front cab with the T/O. NYCT implemented door enablers. This is a management admission that two people are required to operate doors because one person cannot be trusted to decide which side should open. ...implement semi-automatic operation like modern systems in most of the world. The only service benefit from semi-automatic operation is increased service levels through operating consistency. However, there are many inexpensive techniques to achieve operational consistency with manual operation. Other systems have achieved higher service levels than NYCT using these techniques. Semi-automatic operation can be a stepping stone to fully automatic operation. IF ZPTO is NYCT's goal, then OPTO and semi-automatic operation is not an easy first step. They should go for the goal. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:09:18 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 17:48:05 2009. yes, and BART's ATO was crap on opening day 37 years ago, BUT, BART is now very reliable. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 18:10:57 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:09:18 2009. yes, and BART's ATO was crap on opening day 37 years ago, BUT, BART is now very reliable.So give thsi system about 25 years and see what happens... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 18:11:13 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 18:10:57 2009. This system... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 15 18:13:27 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 17:54:06 2009. You quack me up. :) |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:14:17 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by rr4567 on Tue Sep 15 18:07:09 2009. do you EVER ride in an automatic elevator, use an escalator, let the computer send the url to subchat so you canread these posts, ride the AirTrain @ JFK, allow the cashier to make change based on what the register calculates? |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Clayton on Tue Sep 15 18:15:48 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 17:58:05 2009. No apology from our village jackass. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Ken S. on Tue Sep 15 18:17:49 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Clayton on Tue Sep 15 18:15:48 2009. Of course not. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:19:45 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 18:10:57 2009. actually it took them ten give or take and remember they started w/computers from GE w/ Westinghouse labels. All of that stuff was obsolete on arrival. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 18:22:13 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:19:45 2009. The same way MTA did ..Start with obsolete stuff... 25 years sounds about right... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 18:31:55 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Clayton on Tue Sep 15 18:15:48 2009. Agreed. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 18:53:00 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 17:59:08 2009. Huh? Who is Oscar Grant.Listen, I am just expressing my opinion as to why I do not think it should happen. Whether I feel this way or not has no direct bearing on whether a transit agency (like the MTA) will listen. I have voiced my opinions to them as well. Opinions are free speech and I am free to express them just like you are. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 18:57:34 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:05:54 2009. Ok I can see your point, but the 75 footers now are only on a handful of lines (A,F Some,G,R Some, V Some). Yes it is illegal but if you are doing it to report something, I really would be surprised if 1 got in trouble for it and besides it is rarely if ever inforced. Well a trained roving person is costing $ too so why not have the c/r?Anyways, again I was expressing my opinion does not mean it will change anything. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. You have your opinion and are entitled to it. Time will tell if they do it or not. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 19:00:36 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 18:09:18 2009. As I have said in other posts yes the technology is there and they can do it, that is not what my opinion is. I am more concerned for personal safety, but it is my opinion that is all. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:34:38 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Sep 15 17:58:22 2009. That's not at issue here. They are not using a C/R at the 300 foot mark to open the doors on the 600 foot trains, regardless of whether the system is operating in manual or ATO. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:38:58 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 17:58:05 2009. Nothing quite like flaming someone who doesn't respond to these provocations. And yet people still try to claim Terrapin is the worst poster here.I too was somewhat confused by NE T/Os post. If the order comes from the RCC, then is the RCC initiating a test? Or are they responding to a problem with the system? I realize that NE T/O has now expounded upon what he said, but in the spectrum of Terrapin Station posts, this one is pretty hard to attack. Indeed, I don't think NE T/O had any right to respond in so sarcastic a manner to a response simply asking for more information than he initially posted. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 19:45:09 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:38:58 2009. Are you reading the whole thread?I understood what the man said perfectly. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 19:47:45 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:38:58 2009. Last night at around 7:45pm all T/O were ordered by the RCC to put there trains into By-Pass do to a Full line CBTC failure happen on line.Now what part you dont understand? |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:51:26 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by rr4567 on Tue Sep 15 17:33:19 2009. 1) Eight Million peopleShanghai has 20 million people and not a conductor in sight, what is your point? 2) that will make people lose jobs Jackson Park B train made an excellent point about it becoming a jobs program. If you want your little foothold to your dream of becoming a T/O then fine, just don't bitch when the fare goes up again. Incidentally, the fact that there are 8 million people in NYC only hurts your attempt to make a point. The few hundred jobs lost were NYCT to dispose of their C/Rs would have virtually no impact on the city's unemployment figures. Indeed because there is no residency requirement for NYCT's operating workforce you'd have to consider the action relative to the NYC Metro area, therefore encompassing 18 million people and further reducing the impact the NYCT's termination would have. That of course assumes the C/Rs would be terminated, an extremely unlikely scenario. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:55:54 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 19:47:45 2009. Eh, alright. I read "do to" as "to do" instead of "due to". The former reading would tend to indicate that the RCC was initiating something rather than reacting to a problem with the system, as the latter interpretation would indicate.Still, flaming someone over asking for clarification because of a misunderstanding caused by a spelling error in the original post is hardly a reason for no fewer than seven posters to jump on the person who initially asked for clarification. You all need to calm the hell down and stop taking this shit so personally. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 19:57:04 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:55:54 2009. All I did was quote what NETO said. There is no need to flame him for what he said. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 20:02:23 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:55:54 2009. Eh, alright. I read "do to" as "to do" instead of "due to". The former reading would tend to indicate that the RCC was initiating something rather than reacting to a problem with the system, as the latter interpretation would indicate.So im guessing you never knew NETO has a grammar problem right? Do you know what The word "failure" means? You never asnwered the question either yes or no all the rest of your post is irrelevant. You need to clam the hell down and stop defending the man. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Sep 15 20:04:03 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 15 17:56:23 2009. Catch Bus To CanarsieNYCTA No You Can't Trust Anyone |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Sep 15 20:04:46 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 19:45:09 2009. I'm wondering what other information was needed outside of what Rob said...If it was something we needed to know,I'm sure he would have mentioned it... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 20:08:01 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 19:55:54 2009. To add to that nobody is flaming anybody in this thread stop being so defensive... |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 20:13:56 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 20:02:23 2009. So im guessing you never knew NETO has a grammar problem right?I am well aware that NE T/O has a grammar problem, and I spent a good five minutes staring at the screen trying to divine some other interpretation than the RCC having initiated some sort of test of the system. The wording and spelling were completely ambiguous, and I realize that he has some difficulty with words. But if its wrong for us to get upset with him over that ambiguity, then it is equally wrong for him to get upset when asked for clarification. Do you know what The word "failure" means? Again, well aware of the meaning of that word. However, the RCC could quite easily initiate a test of the system to simulate some sort of failure. If I read NE T/O's words and assume to and do were flipped, rather than do being spelled phonetically, then I end up with the RCC doing something rather than reacting to something. You need to clam the hell down and stop defending the man. No, because I will not sit idly by while the same group gangs up on him and flame him when he is either unable or unwilling to respond, even for the most non-inflamatory statements he can make. The claims that he is somehow the worst poster on this board are completely hypocritical, given the posting habits of the people making those claims, and at best you're cowards for the way you insist on piling-on insult after insult. Nothing is sacred and I for one am sick and tired of this bullshit. If someone has already gotten their insult in, nobody else is adding anything by calling into question his marriage, his child, his upbringing, or anything else. Is it too much to ask for a modicum of civility around here? |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 20:16:04 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 20:08:01 2009. To add to that nobody is flaming anybody in this thread stop being so defensive...Sure, this can't be a flame at all. He must just be under the mistaken impression that we have a donkey that regularly manages to mash a keyboard and put together coherent posts. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Sep 15 20:16:25 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 16:13:00 2009. Once A new signal system is installed top to bottom ala CBTC the signal system is NEW. Newer then the systems in san fran, DC or any other system . The Age of the walls mean ZERO.As for the cost. Conductors cost the system between $650-$700 million dollars a year ($70 million more after the contract raise takes affect) that are not needed. The money needs to be spent on what is needed such as security personal etc. Door operators are not needed. The driver using cameras is far more effective then someone looking down the side of a train especially on a busy platform.(screens need to be inside train cab) As for a sick passenger and responce time. On R-68 trains with the storm doors locked between cars, it take longer to report a problem then a intercom box. All trains should have cameras so that the T/O and offsite command center can view interior of cars so that they can send the needed help. Rush hours, extra security/customer service could be on hand to help out to speed trains as needed. Bloomy is correct that the MTA needs a Cheif technology officer not a buracrat who knows nothing of what it takes to roll out and plan technology projects. In the end the mta needs to hire someone to revamp it's operations TOP to Bottom to help squeeze out the $1-$2 billion in poor operating practices |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Sep 15 20:20:51 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 18:57:34 2009. You are forgetting the lines that use R68 and R68A. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 20:25:20 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 20:13:56 2009. I am well aware that NE T/O has a grammar problem, and I spent a good five minutes staring at the screen trying to divine some other interpretation than the RCC having initiated some sort of test of the system. The wording and spelling were completely ambiguous, and I realize that he has some difficulty with words. But if its wrong for us to get upset with him over that ambiguity, then it is equally wrong for him to get upset when asked for clarification.When i talked to him today he didnt seem upset at all over it he even told me so your "thinking" he was upset is incorrect. Again, well aware of the meaning of that word. However, the RCC could quite easily initiate a test of the system to simulate some sort of failure. If I read NE T/O's words and assume to and do were flipped, rather than do being spelled phonetically, then I end up with the RCC doing something rather than reacting to something. More useless words either you do or you dont plan and simple. Not to hard right? No, because I will not sit idly by while the same group gangs up on him and flame him when he is either unable or unwilling to respond, even for the most non-inflamatory statements he can make. The claims that he is somehow the worst poster on this board are completely hypocritical, given the posting habits of the people making those claims, and at best you're cowards for the way you insist on piling-on insult after insult. Nothing is sacred and I for one am sick and tired of this bullshit. If someone has already gotten their insult in, nobody else is adding anything by calling into question his marriage, his child, his upbringing, or anything else. Is it too much to ask for a modicum of civility around here? Nothing is stopping you from not posting here anymore if what some people do to a person here bothers you. Im not saying it's right either. I dont get caught up in stuff on a Internet Message board which has no affect on me in real life. I tloosk to me it got you all riled up.Maybe you need to go to OT Chat make a thread about it and see the responses you get. That makes sense to me. Honestly. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Sep 15 20:25:42 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by rr4567 on Tue Sep 15 17:33:19 2009. "1) Eight Million people2) that will make people lose jobs " What you don't seem to understand is the high taxes and tolls to keep unneeded workers COST FAR MORE PRIVATE SECTOR JOB and TAX REVENUE FOR THE STATE then the conductor jobs being lost due to eliminating the dedicated door operator. The depository trust company is moving 1400 high paying jobs from 55 water street to Jersey city. One of the reason quoted is the high tack on taxes such as the two mta taxes. This means fewer subway riders going to work Less jobs for the cleaners, security guards and all those who work in food places all the stores where those workers work Plus less construction jobs because no need to build a new office building if an office building is empty. 5 of my college buddies who work as traders on wall street are moving to florida. Due to technology there is no trading floor anymore and they trade via computers. they are moving because they are paying 60% of thier income in income tax vs 40% in florida. That means less money to pay the bills for all the services in NYC |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 15 20:27:29 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Sep 15 20:04:03 2009. Canarsie got a bus? :)Ah, for the good old days of the (ta) ... Trains Absent. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Sep 15 20:28:16 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by arnine on Tue Sep 15 17:27:52 2009. If you don't mean crime by saying safety, I don't see why it hasn't been much of a problem elsewhere. Intercoms should be maintained to work. Hopefully that was a rare case, if the fail rate is high, we shouldn't have bothered installing them. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Sep 15 20:29:26 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by WillD on Tue Sep 15 20:16:04 2009. No thats an insult..Just Like this is but the door swings both ways. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 15 20:31:25 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by North-Easten T/O on Tue Sep 15 09:32:41 2009. Thanks Easten. Maybe you should write more simply in the future, as sometimes your disability causes more complex sentences to come out all jumbled up. The combination of your word choices and accidental spelling mistakes made that post seem to have one of two possible meanings, as I posted. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Tue Sep 15 20:33:38 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 15 20:31:25 2009. I think when he types, he just does not care to spell check. He's perfectly normal in real life. must be a subchat thing. |
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Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Sep 15 20:33:52 2009, in response to Re: Full CBTC Shut Down Last Night, posted by Jackson park B Train on Tue Sep 15 17:58:10 2009. "If you want a jobs program,"You hit the nail on the head. Jessie Jackson views the mta as a JOBS PROGRAM for minority workers. Google jessie+jackson+mta and you can read it in his own words. Padding public agencies with unneeded jobs hurts the quality of service that can be delivered and HURTS THE WORKING POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS THE MOST due to the fact the high taxes Chase away private sector jobs causing more people to be poor and so on and so on The unions and democratic party want people to be dependent on Government which gives them more power. They set up community based organization to help people and then pad the payroll with their unqualified friends and family. As long as NY is a one party town where the leaders hand pick who can run, they can get away with stealing |
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