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| (584470) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 06:21:04 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Mar 10 13:47:55 2008. A wild card in Phase 2 is that now may be extended all the way to 125th/Broadway. If it is, then we could wind up with much greater ridership as Columbia University expands. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 09:55:22 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 11 01:30:58 2008. Yup. I read that. I think that it was the NYT that ran that column about opposite direction commuting and it included the growing number of people from NJ who work in Westchester and LI or are from LI and work in NJ or Westchester and so on. I couldn't find that article either.Planetizen is your friend. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 09:59:27 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 06:21:04 2008. A wild card in Phase 2 is that now may be extended all the way to 125th/Broadway. If it is, then we could wind up with much greater ridership as Columbia University expands.That is probably less of a problem than the population density around 86/2, 96/2, 106/2, and 116/2. At least 72/2 is in the wrong place. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 10:01:49 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 11 01:38:29 2008. That's how THE Tunnel should have been planned. Hell they are still in time to alter the plans. I guess you would get (T)rans (H)udson (E)xpress and (T)rans (E)ast (E)xpress Tunnels.Just link it up to 63rd St and build two or three smaller through stations instead of two massive terminals. |
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Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 10:03:26 2008, in response to Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 11 01:43:32 2008. The Queensboro Bridge is not strong enough to handle the extra weight. Or so they say anyway.The Queensboro Bridge is a design disaster that will need a total rebuild at some point anyway. |
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Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 11 10:15:46 2008, in response to Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 10:03:26 2008. And you conclude this how? |
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| (584538) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 10:20:54 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 10:01:49 2008. While LIRR trains could go west to NJ given third rail power, there apparently isn't room in the 63rd St Tunnel for wire to power NJT trains, and the method of construction of the river tunnel makes changing this very difficult. |
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| (584540) | |
Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 10:23:53 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 09:59:27 2008. Which is one big reason why if the super express is the Rockaway Line, I would be looking if monies can be found to do the construction to have it go through as noted before, a new tunnel that would have it stop on the north side of Roosevelt Island and then 79th Street and York-1st Avenues. The latter proposed stop in Manhattan is right in the middle of the population destiny zone where you have an 11-block gap on 2nd avenue between entrances, and this would be a station that would be very heavily used by those east of 2nd avenue who live a considerable distance from the 72nd or 83rd street entrances to the SAS.After 79th/York-1st, this new line I would have stop at 72nd/2nd (perhaps on a lower level) and then split off evenly into two branches, one joining the Q to 63rd/Lex and then Broadway, the other joining the T to at least Hanover Square. That to me might be the best use of a new Rockaway line that can then run at 24-30 tph peak on its own, leaving capacity on the 63rd street tunnel for future use at a later time. |
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| (584541) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 11 10:28:26 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 09:59:27 2008. "t least 72/2 is in the wrong place."Fo what, exactly? I suggest you look at your maps and tell us where Cornell Medical Center is? Special Surgery? The associated cvhildren's hospital? Do you know how much those centers have grown? It's often helpful to stop thinking about the trains and instead think about where people are going when they use them. |
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| (584545) | |
Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Mar 11 10:33:58 2008, in response to Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 00:08:52 2008. :00 EXP to JFK:01 LCL to Far Rock :05 EXP to LGA :06 LCL to FLB :10 EXP to JFK :11 LCL to Rock Park :15 EXP to LGA :16 LCL to FLB :20 EXP to JFK :21 LCL to Far Rock :25 EXP to LGA :26 LCL to FLB :30 EXP to JFK :31 LCL to Rock Park :35 EXP to LGA :36 LCL to FLB :40 EXP to JFK :41 LCL to Far Rock :45 EXP to LGA :46 LCL to FLB :50 EXP to JFK :51 LCL to Rock Park :55 EXP to LGA :56 LCL to FLB And if more frequent services to the Rocks are kneaded, LION would SPLIT the train at Broad Channel and send the front to Far Rock and the Back to Rock Park. The Rock Park train would get back to the Channel first so that T/O would take the train to Javits, while the Far Rock T/O would take the next train to the Park. The FLB trains are only stopping at the new large Park-and-Ride Facilities, and are not making neighborhood stops. The purpose of this service is to keep cars out of Manhattan. FLB trains follow the LIE and are not particularly well sited to residential access. Park and ride facilities start at $15.00 a day for parking (including city bound train fare) and increase by $3.00 for each successively closer facility that one parks at. The Rockaway trains also make stops on the Old Rock alignments as a bone to the NIMBYs in said neighborhoods. ROAR |
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| (584560) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 11:03:47 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 11 10:28:26 2008. "t least 72/2 is in the wrong place."Fo what, exactly? Read the thread. The point is that there would be more population dependent upon this station if it were in another location. I suggest you look at your maps and tell us where Cornell Medical Center is? Special Surgery? The associated cvhildren's hospital? Do you know how much those centers have grown? It's the neighborhood that matters for subway ridership far more than your pet business. There are businesses everywhere. Large institutions are particularly bad, as they tend to create massive ridership peaks between the place being a total desert. You should read Jane Jacobs, "The Economy of Cities", some time. It's often helpful to stop thinking about the trains and instead think about where people are going when they use them. That's exactly what you need to do. You should also step outside your little world that revolves around hospitals and invalids and reflect that most people are healthy most of the time. |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Mar 11 11:06:10 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 10:23:53 2008. Jesus...Why won't you understand that BEFORE the MTA is willing to spend billions on a new upper Manhattan tube..something MUST be done with the 63rd st tunnel/subway to MAXIMIZE USAGE. |
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| (584562) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 11:08:03 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 10:20:54 2008. While LIRR trains could go west to NJ given third rail power, there apparently isn't room in the 63rd St Tunnel for wire to power NJT trains, and the method of construction of the river tunnel makes changing this very difficult.Well, obviously NJT's rolling stock is unsuitable. But more would be needed anyway, so it can be ordered to more suitable standards. The existing stock can be used on routes to Penn Station and Hoboken, or sold to SEPTA. |
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| (584565) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 11:11:46 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 11:08:03 2008. Potentially, NJT could go with something like the M8s, OK, but would M8s fit in the 63rd St Tunnel even with the pantograph lowered? |
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| (584566) | |
Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 11:12:46 2008, in response to Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Mar 11 10:33:58 2008. The FLB trains are only stopping at the new large Park-and-Ride Facilities, and are not making neighborhood stops.Mais oui, Monsieur Jeanneret. Vive le Plan Voisin! |
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| (584568) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 11:16:31 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 11:11:46 2008. Potentially, NJT could go with something like the M8s, OK, but would M8s fit in the 63rd St Tunnel even with the pantograph lowered?If they were specified to. |
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Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 11:35:15 2008, in response to Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Mar 11 10:33:58 2008. I think the 6 tph to FLB would be woefully inadequate, not to mention that all that construction for a subway line would seem to demand more service be provided that just that. (This is the problem with SAS if the rest of it never comes - it bring the Q to the Upper East Side. Nice, but hardly worth the money). |
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| (584632) | |
Re: SAS on upper east side |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 14:48:01 2008, in response to Re: The LION's Plan: Was: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 11:35:15 2008. That Q train is extremely important to the upper east side:Even if it only gets to 96th street, that still will take a SEVERE amount of pressure off the 6 in that area. That's why it's being done first. |
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| (584639) | |
Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 15:04:12 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by Edwards! on Tue Mar 11 11:06:10 2008. In this case:While the 63rd street tunnel is important, unless you re-route another existing line through that tunnel it probably is going to have a difficult time ever getting to full capacity. If you can put a Super Express in the 63rd Street tunnel, that would be great, however, my thinking is, that cuts down on the amount of service you can do from the Rockaways if that becomes the Super Express. That's why, provided monies can be found for a new tunnel into Manhattan I like the idea now of having the super express go to and from the Rockaways, perhaps stop on a new lower level of the current Roosevelt Avenue (or if possible, the never-previously-used but built upper level station) so those from the 7 can transfer to it, then have it make at the most one more stop in Queens (in an area not currently served) before then stopping on Roosevelt Island in a new station on the north part and then in Manhattan at 79th street and York-1st Avenues. A 79th Street/York-1st Avenue station, even with the SAS I think would be very heavily used in addition to both the 72nd and 86th street staions on the SAS, since this stop would mean not nearly as long a walk for those who live east of 2nd avenue between those two stations, also indirectly helping to reduce the overcrowding problems on the 6 at that point, with such trains then stopping on a lower level of 72nd/2nd and then splitting up to join the SAS or the Q train to Broadway on a pretty much alternating basis (assuming by that time the SAS is complete). The area in Manhattan noted is one of the most densely populated areas in all of New York, which is also why I would make a 79th/York-1st Avenue station a three-track, two island platform station that would also allow for some service in rush hours to begin/end there. |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Mar 11 15:43:58 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 06:13:34 2008. Seems overly expensive for not much gain. Just run it into 63rd St |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 15:47:31 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 15:04:12 2008. A 79th Street/York-1st Avenue station, even with the SAS I think would be very heavily used in addition to both the 72nd and 86th street staions on the SAS, since this stop would mean not nearly as long a walk for those who live east of 2nd avenue between those two stations, also indirectly helping to reduce the overcrowding problems on the 6 at that point, with such trains then stopping on a lower level of 72nd/2nd and then splitting up to join the SAS or the Q train to Broadway on a pretty much alternating basis (assuming by that time the SAS is complete). The area in Manhattan noted is one of the most densely populated areas in all of New York, which is also why I would make a 79th/York-1st Avenue station a three-track, two island platform station that would also allow for some service in rush hours to begin/end there.You are highlighting a real issue, but it would be much easier to alter the station spacing of the SAS to better reflect the population shape: 114-116 → 116-118 106-108 → 106-108 (NC) 96-98 → 95-97 84-86 → 86-88 71-73 → 77-79 (none) → 68-70 |
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Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Tue Mar 11 16:22:35 2008, in response to Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 10:49:51 2008. I like that idea a lot. Hopefully something like that can happen. I like that it remains a subway since in my opinion, thats the only way it is going to be cost effective given that the LIRR is expensive compared to the subway. Also, where would the stations be located and what would they be called in your plan? Also, by any chance do you have a rendering of your plan using the current subway map? Cool idea and thanks a lot for sharing. |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 11 17:16:16 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 15:47:31 2008. meh... I dont think the uptown station placement is as crappy as it is from 72-42. 55th is absurd. 50-53 and 60-63 should be built instead. |
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Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Mar 11 22:20:10 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:24:40 2008. My goodness..You are a negative bloke today..aren't you? |
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Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 22:53:11 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Edwards! on Tue Mar 11 22:20:10 2008. Facts are facts.I think it's possible to do something worthwhile, but they're going to have to come up with a new plan for today's realities, not something dusted off from when LBJ was in the White House. I'd rather see the realization that we need to max out the local tracks on Queens Blvd, and then work on a new Queens trunk line constructed by TBM maybe. |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Mar 11 23:08:59 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Mar 11 15:04:12 2008. But you're sending trains so far uptown just to bring them down, it might even end up in no time savings for Rockaway residents going to midtown(and you can forget about downtown)Sorry, this seems to be something not worth the expense. Just run the super express into 63rd St with Rockaway, LIE, and QB Super Express service |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 01:15:01 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 09:55:22 2008. Cool! Thanks! |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 01:19:58 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 11 17:16:16 2008. meh... I dont think the uptown station placement is as crappy as it is from 72-42. 55th is absurd. 50-53 and 60-63 should be built instead.I agree with 50-53rd but 60-63rd would be technically impossible. The Queens bellmouths and the rest of the east-west 63rd St tunnel are there. 59-61st would be better. The uptown station placement is good in my view. I wish they could have added a 78-80th. |
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Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 01:23:05 2008, in response to Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 10:03:26 2008. The Queensboro Bridge is a design disaster that will need a total rebuild at some point anywayNot before its 100th birthday next year. I love that bridge! |
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Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 03:22:43 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 11 22:53:11 2008. I'd rather see the realization that we need to max out the local tracks on Queens Blvd, and then work on a new Queens trunk line constructed by TBM maybe.Local QB tracks are already maxed out because of the constraints at 71st St. The only way to run more trains there is to branch off a local service. Hence the Whitepot Option at 63rd Dr. but they're going to have to come up with a new plan for today's realities, not something dusted off from when LBJ was in the White House. That area has hardly changed since LBJ was in the White House. The infrastructure and residential density have been about the same since the Eisenhower Administration. |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 03:23:07 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Mar 11 15:43:58 2008. yep |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 12 04:03:45 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 12:07:07 2008. Which is why I keep saying the way to do it would be to have it stop at Roosevelt, but on a separate platform (either a new one directly below the currently used ones or the built-but-never-used upper level platform there) and then send it a bit north with perhaps a stop in a part of Queens not currently serviced, then going through a new northern tunnel with stops on Roosvelt Island and 79th Street and York-1st Avenues in what is arguably the most densely populated area in all of New York. After that, it would stop on a lower level of 72nd/2nd before the Rockaway line splits up, with half joining the T on the SAS and the other half going with the Q to Broadway. The one stop on 79th/York-1st Avenues would be the big key to making this work because as noted upthread, that one station would likely be VERY heavily used, especially by those who live east of 2nd avenue between 75th and 81st streets or so.This setup would also potentially give east side riders a relatively easy 1-2 seat ride to JFK, which would be very attractive for a lot of people who don't wish to drive and leave their car in a long-term lot, which also to me would be very important if done correctly. |
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| (584894) | |
Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan SAS |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 12 06:28:11 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 15:47:31 2008. Good point, but:I think a Rockaway line that would also be a super express would work best (especially given the limitations of the current express tracks on Queens Blvd.) if it didn't have to deal with the 63rd street tunnel and instead go to a new tunnel leading into 79th street in Manhattan that would also allow for what I think even with the SAS would be a very heavily used station at 79th and York-1st Avenues that would then have a stop on a lower level at 72nd/2nd before breaking into two branches as noted (one with the Q to 63rd/Lex and then Broadway, the other with the T on the SAS to Hanover Square). It might be a cumbersome route, but I also think it's one that would pay for itself and more justify having the Rockaway Line/Queens Super Express since such a line would also provide upper east side riders with a 1-2 seat ride to JFK (or at least Howard Beach and the AirTrain). This is not to say your idea of spacing the SAS stations is a bad idea, as in fact, I would have restructured the stations to include one at 79th street and 2nd avenue by going as follows: 72nd street with exits at 69th-72nd (no change) 79th street with exits at 78th, 79th and 81st 86th street with exits at 86th and 89th 96th street with exits at 95th, 96th and 98th That to me would make more sense, and is something I would consider while doing the SAS to include an additional stop at 79th/2nd. As for below 72nd, I would redo the stations there so the stops are at 50th-53rd and 57th-60th streets, the latter including a transfer at 60th to the 4/5/6/N/R/W. That to me would work as well. |
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Selling old rail cars to SEPTA |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 12 07:02:52 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 11 11:08:03 2008. The existing stock can be used on routes to Penn Station and Hoboken, or sold to SEPTA.And from what I have read, SEPTA can use all the rail cars they can get. |
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Re: V Loop/Williamsburg Bridge |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 12 07:10:43 2008, in response to Re: LIRR/Airtrain Solution Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 11 02:29:14 2008. If you can do all three, then yes, that would work and be very useful.The V loop does sound like a very good idea that would be just as good as combining the M with the V, and allow M riders to make a same platform transfer betweem the M and V almost anywhere along the way between Myrtle and Essex, taking pressure off the L. |
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Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Mar 12 08:01:32 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 03:22:43 2008. Young Mario Cuomo, alleged liberal lion and hero, rallied that community, using arguably thinly failed racial talk to keep 'affordable housing' out; other of our political luminaries did the same thing in the Riverdale area.Do you honestly think these people are going to let you put up elevated connectors in that area between the subway and LIRR's Main Line? |
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typo Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Mar 12 08:03:01 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Mar 12 08:01:32 2008. "using arguably thinly failed racial talk "SHOULD READ "using arguably thinly VEILED racial talk " got to get that first cup of tea down.... |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan SAS |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 12 11:39:42 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan SAS, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 12 06:28:11 2008. That spacing is a bit tight, and they were trying to avoid just that.The easy stations to place are 86, 96, 106, and 116. They are where the transfers to the crosstown buses are. Given that the second entrance will be about two blocks away, it's then fairly easy to determine which way these stations should run: 116: North (to ~118) -- 114/2 is a bit of a prairie, 118/2 is in a real neighborhood; plus there's no station at 125/2 106: North (to ~108) -- this bridges a bit of prairie between two real neighborhoods and keeps the stop spacing neat 96: Ambiguous (95-97?) -- the neighborhood would pull it south, but the spacing would push it north; 98/2 is clearly absurd though 86: North (to ~88) -- again it could go either way, but you end up tying yourself in knots if it heads south (as the MTA have done) Then you hit the problem section: there's a case for stops at any of 68, 72, and 79, but obviously not all three. All of them have bus transfers. 72 is the weakest, as there is no transverse road through Central Park (pwned by 68 and 79) and the population runs out quickly to the east (pwned by 79). 79 is obviously the strongest, and the positions of the next station in each direction must be affected by this. 79 St station clearly has to run south, so as not to collide with 86 St station; 68 could go either way -- south is probably better, but that would probably necessitate killing any idea of through service to the downtown portion of the SAS, if it ever happened. |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 12 12:37:03 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 01:19:58 2008. Just because the bellmouths are there does not mean that the station would be impossible to build.The tracks would not need to merge at the station, and while NYCTA does not like such an idea, there really isnt anything stopping a switch from being in the middle of a platform. |
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| (584962) | |
Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 12 12:56:11 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 11 17:16:16 2008. I would agree with you. But 55th wasn't picked out of thin air. What's at that intersection? |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 12 13:08:59 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 12 12:56:11 2008. Apartment buildings, like the rest of the area in that stretch. |
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Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 12 15:07:25 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 12 12:37:03 2008. Of course with the trains coming in from the Bellmouth not making that stop.....could make for a hell of a photo location |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 12 15:08:16 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 12 04:03:45 2008. NOT WORTH IT! You're sending Rockaway riders so far north that they're losing all their time savings. It's rediculous |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by FarRock on Wed Mar 12 20:27:49 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 12 15:08:16 2008. I look at it like this.The best place to send the route from The Rock is to the SAS from 63rd St. |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 12 23:10:31 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by FarRock on Wed Mar 12 20:27:49 2008. AGREE! |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Mar 13 01:39:18 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by FarRock on Wed Mar 12 20:27:49 2008. The best place to send the route from The Rock is to the SAS from 63rd St.No doubt. In fact, it's a no-brainer. |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 13 01:51:05 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 12 23:10:31 2008. Except for one thing:79th is not that far from 63rd in Manhattan (a little over three-quarters of a mile), and would really only be two extra stops the way I would do it. Also, doing so the way I would do it would allow for double the number of trains this Rockaway line could potentially use in all likelyhood, plus clear up what is likely if not right away is going to be in my opinion a major issue with the SAS: That is the fact there is no station between 72nd and 86th street and no entrance between 72nd and 83rd streets in one of the most densely populated areas in all of New York City, which is why I would do it that way to include a stop at 79th street and York-1st Avenues that I think would be among the most heavily used of the entire system, or at least outside of the CBDs. It may not be perfect, but if this line provides an alternative that includes a stop at Roosevelt Avenue and then stops on Roosevelt Island and then 79th Street and York-1st Avenues, it to me stands a better chance of coming to fruition rather than having it share trackage at any point with the exisiting QB lines. |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Mar 13 01:56:18 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 13 01:51:05 2008. The (F) and an SAS/Old Rock line thru RI using its current station would be more then sufficient for RIers. RI and Queensbridge could then play the role of transfer stations between (F) and SAS riders. |
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Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 13 01:58:48 2008, in response to Re: Queens/Rockaway Super Express with Roosevelt Island and upper east side stops, posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 12 03:23:07 2008. As noted in my other posts on this in this thread, the problem I see with that is that may prevent the line from being most effective, coupled with what is going to be a major issue with the SAS, that being there being no entrance to the line between 72nd and 83rd streets in one of the most densely populated areas in all of New York. That is what the 79th street tunnel and station at York-1st Avenues (also stopping on the north end of Roosevelt Island) would help in aleviating, especially since after Roosevelt Avenue in Queens, it is I believe close to a straight line to what would be that point. |
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Re: SAS on upper east side/Queens-Rockaway super express |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 13 02:06:28 2008, in response to Re: Rockaway Line/Super Express/Manhattan SAS, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 12 11:39:42 2008. That is true:With that in mind, I would have looked at redoing the stops south of 86th into something like this: 67th Street (exits at 67th, 69th and 70th streets) 79th Street (exits at 76th and 79th streets) 86th Street (exits at 86th and 89th streets) Everything north of 86th would remain as planned. If the SAS stays as is (most likely), then I think you would have to look at having the Queens Super Express run through a new tunnel at 79th that would stop at 79th and York-1st Avenues that would help a lot in an area that has a large population with a considerable walk to either the SAS or Lexington Avenue Subway (with the line after that stopping on a lower level of 72nd/2nd and then proceeding south, split evenly between going with the Q on the Broadway Line and with the T on the SAS). |
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