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| Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction (582530) | |
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| (583024) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:26:13 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:03:17 2008. Same cringing here. And I fear that running the G train on Queens Blvd only exacerbates that further. At least with the R or V, there's a decent chance the person doesn't transfer. With the G, the person headed to Midtown is required to transfer. |
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| (583025) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:27:25 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 13:18:17 2008. The problem trying to be avoided here though IS overcrowding on the QB expresses from Rockaway commuters. I get the feeling that despite it being 2 transfers, they'd still do it for the faster ride |
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| (583034) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:49:56 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:13:21 2008. You're comparing apples to oranges, though - LIRR runs at higher speeds, and with less station-stops than does NYCT. |
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| (583035) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:51:31 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:26:13 2008. It wouldn't be that big a deal, since the G ran on Queens Blvd as late as 2001, with no major issues. And the only local stops which would see a loss of Manhattan service are 67th Ave and 63rd Drive. Many of these people x-fer to expresses at Roosevelt Ave. as it is right now. |
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| (583036) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:52:37 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:49:56 2008. It's a valid argument since you're talking about distance. All I'm saying is that the Rockaways should not be as long of a ride as they are from the city. |
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| (583037) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 13:53:06 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:51:31 2008. 63rd Drive wouldn't see a loss, as I believe the connection bellmouths are after 63rd Drive. |
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| (583038) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:55:39 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:10:07 2008. But yes, eventually, they'll probably need the super express b/c as we all agree, the QB expresses are packed to the gillsIf you want to opt that route, do the full monte: a new trunk line in Manhattan leading to a new trunk line in Queens. |
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| (583039) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:57:12 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 13:18:17 2008. The idea behind terminating in Ozone Park is to segregate Rockaway riders from the Queens Blvd line. I'd be OK with terminating the line even farther north, like on the northern edge of Forest Park. |
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| (583042) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:59:05 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:52:37 2008. It's on the extreme edge of the city. Where else does an equal distance get traversed by an urban rapid transit line? |
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| (583045) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 14:06:08 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:59:05 2008. Regardless, it's closer than a place that is a 1 hour ride away from the city |
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| (583046) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 14:06:50 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 13:57:12 2008. That's just pointless. Get it as close to the A without actually touching it. That way, you can serve parts of Queens that don't have subway service |
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| (583047) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 14:07:16 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 13:55:39 2008. It's called SAS |
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| (583048) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 14:08:10 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:52:37 2008. Then they made a mistake bringing NYCT service there, and should have kept LIRR. That's part of my motivation for giving the arguments in favor of the LIRR option.Maybe in retrospect it was a mistake to bring NYCT to the Rockaways? |
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| (583049) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 14:09:53 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 14:07:16 2008. Not quite.SAS relies on feeders from presently existing lines, e.g., Queens Blvd, Broadway. |
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| (583064) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 14:28:54 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 13:52:37 2008. OK, that is simple.MOVE the Rockaways closer to the city. ROAR |
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| (583074) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Sat Mar 8 15:00:19 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 8 05:58:06 2008. The buses are on the Mainline. They butt up to the 97th Avenue bridge. |
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| (583080) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 8 15:02:51 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 14:06:50 2008. My thinking is that areas south of Forest Park are already served by J/Z and A trains. North of the park, there's nothing all the way to Queens Blvd. |
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| (583094) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:20:01 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Grand concourse on Sat Mar 8 01:34:27 2008. But there is no need to run a 5-car train let alone a 10-car train thru the Air Train system.The subway taking over HB AirTrain would result in a one-seat ride from major Manhattan and Brooklyn locations straight into JFK's terminals. There would be no need for a new expensive tunnel. |
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| (583095) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:21:03 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 11:34:29 2008. Where'd you hear that?I read about it when AirTrain was being built. It's been mentioned on this board too. |
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| (583097) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 15:24:20 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:20:01 2008. Abnormally short trains just represent wasted capacity. The system works pretty well as is. |
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| (583098) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:24:38 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 11:41:24 2008. Airtrain is here to stay, using the current mode. That's my prediction.You are probably right. If Sander could actually pull of a Super-Express down the Old Rock to Rock Park, the (A) trains now scheduled for that terminal would probably be used for extra service on the Far Rock and Lefferts branches. But one can always hope. |
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| (583101) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:29:53 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:47:35 2008. Nothing short of one of us dying would stop that thread.I never want to see another AirTrain thread again LOL! So true! That's why I propose diverting the Rock Park (A) unto HB AirTrain. That way we'll all know it's a plain old subway fare. Oh no...I hope I'm not starting another AirTrain thread... |
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| (583106) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:41:48 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Lord Vader on Sat Mar 8 13:11:13 2008. V would be better. R train has a long enough route as isI agree. I would go further by having the (V) go thru Christie Cut unto Brooklyn Bway and then run local until Woodhaven Blvd. East of there it would turn north unto the Old Rock and enter the QB at 63rd Dr. It would become a circular line in both directions running 18/5. They could then third track the Jamaica El and run the (J) peak express. The Super-Express would continue down the Old Rock to Rock Park and run 24/7. That would become the Queens SAS. |
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| (583109) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:45:52 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 14:28:54 2008. TEAR DOWN THE ROCKAWAYS!!! |
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| (583113) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:49:09 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 13:53:06 2008. That's the way I understand it. |
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| (583118) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:59:15 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 15:24:20 2008. I don't consider it wasted capacity since the (A) doesn't even run to Rock Park except at certain hours. Under such circumstances, even a 5-car train running 24/7 to JFK would actually bring added capacity. |
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| (583128) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:14:48 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 12:07:57 2008. I say the SAS from Rock Park to Hanover Sq via 63rd St tunnel. |
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| (583130) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:18:15 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 12:46:33 2008. Agreed. |
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| (583133) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:22:51 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 14:09:53 2008. A Super-Express into the 63rd St tunnel and then down 2nd Av wouldn't have to come from the QB Line. The whole point of the S-E is to bypass the QB Line. |
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| (583136) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:24:40 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:22:51 2008. True. But the 'super express' doesn't exist yet, and it might not ever. |
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| (583144) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Mar 8 16:31:30 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:59:15 2008. There's no demand for trsains to go straight into the terminals. There is demand to deliver passengers efficiently to a terminal circulator, and AirTrain does that. |
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| (583147) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:35:00 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by monorail on Sat Mar 8 11:25:43 2008. The Lower Montauk is an important freight corridor. It was probably a good thing that it was discarded as an option. It would have resulted in MORE road traffic had it been adopted for subway service which would defeat the whole purpose. OTOH, the Old Rock lies fallow. I agree that NIMBYs are a problem but if Sander can channel the spirit of Robert Moses, then he may succeed in strong-arming them. |
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| (583152) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:38:32 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:35:00 2008. Sander is going to need to channel the FUNDRAISING spirit of Moses to succeed these days. Let's see if/when he funds his talk. |
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| (583155) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:47:53 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Mar 8 16:31:30 2008. There's no demand for trsains to go straight into the terminals. There is demand to deliver passengers efficiently to a terminal circulator, and AirTrain does that.If there is no demand for trains to go straight into terminals, then why is every politico and MTA official insisting on a new East River tunnel and a one-seat ride to JFK and setting aside millions of $$$ for studies to do just that? Are you calling those people stupid? ;-> |
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| (583166) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:55:47 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:47:53 2008. Are you calling those people stupid? ;->That would be a grave insult to stupid people. :) |
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| (583169) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:56:40 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:38:32 2008. Sander is going to need to channel the FUNDRAISING spirit of Moses to succeed these days. Let's see if/when he funds his talk.LOL! Oh yeah...that too. |
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| (583170) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 16:59:18 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:24:38 2008. It would be possible to send LIRR trains to the Airport (Howard Beach) via this route from both NYP and GCT.But that is the MOST STOOPIT THING I HAVE EVER HEARD OF! THEY ALREADY DO THAT: You change at Jamaica for the AirTrain. End of Problem. ROAR |
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| (583172) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 17:00:29 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:55:47 2008. That would be a grave insult to stupid people.:)Heh! I agree but Dr. Ron holds certain former MTA officials in high regard. |
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| (583173) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 17:01:06 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Lord Vader on Sat Mar 8 13:11:13 2008. Who really cares how long a route is!Crews *can* be changed at some mid-town halfway point and after a potty break, be sent back to their original terminal. ROAR |
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| (583174) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 17:01:52 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 15:45:52 2008. They did that a long time ago. I am surprised that there is any traffic out there any more anyway.ROAR |
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| (583175) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 17:02:41 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 16:59:18 2008. THEY ALREADY DO THAT: You change at Jamaica for the AirTrain.But I want a one-seat ride! |
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| (583179) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 17:04:58 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 17:01:52 2008. Heh...that's right! I actually forgot about that. It looks like they are finally building something in that area. |
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| (583180) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 17:05:06 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 16:24:40 2008. The Super Express was planned (if that is the word) at a time when there was less built-up in that area. It would be more difficult (to impossible) to build such a critter that way at this time.ROAR |
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| (583183) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 17:07:00 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 17:05:06 2008. That's my view too. |
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| (583192) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat Mar 8 17:19:46 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 16:47:53 2008. Well yes it makes little sense to build a parallel line when existing lines already exists, but the problem is unless the city can somehow buy out the PA to get exclusive rights to the AirTrain, then there is no way you can combine both. Plus wouldn't a 5-car train be too long compared to maybe a 2-3 car train? I say just leave AT as a seperate line and just have the fare at $2 or accessable via a transfer. |
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| (583195) | |
Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Sat Mar 8 17:33:05 2008, in response to Re: Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Mar 8 11:38:26 2008. The 6 tracks originally went all the way to Winfield, where the Port Washington tracks meet the Main Line. The outer two tracks were taken out of service from Winfield to just west of Rego Park in 1955.HERE'S the Emery map of the Winfield area in the 1950's. On the map, note the original alignment of the Main Line prior to the realignment of 1915 It's shown as "C" on the map. |
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| (583196) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 17:36:58 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 17:02:41 2008. IMPOSSIBLE....You will *still* have to change to the Air Train to get to the terminal that you require. ROAR |
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| (583209) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Mar 8 17:59:57 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 18:38:29 2008. The only connection could be to the Queens Local line.However, how do you then explain to those in Williamsburg that you can fit a third line on the local tracks, but not run the G from Brooklyn to Queens on the Queens Line as the third service? |
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| (583222) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Mar 8 18:46:33 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 14:08:10 2008. The current demographic on the Rockaways would not be able to pay LIRR fares on a regular basis. NYCT was the genie coming out of the bottle for lower-income residents to settle there. Now you can't turn it back. |
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| (583225) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 18:51:12 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by monorail on Sat Mar 8 11:22:23 2008. |
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