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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 12:49:00 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 12:47:13 2005.

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1992?: last non airconditioned trainset (R30's) is removed from service.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 12:52:13 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 12:49:00 2005.

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Actually 1993, but he didn't inquire about the 1990's.

My last R30 ride was in 2/93, from ENY to 72nd St.

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Re: one memory, later time period, in Florida

Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Feb 24 13:39:41 2005, in response to Re: one memory, later time period, in Florida, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 12:43:26 2005.

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Looks realistic except for the overhead sign that says "60 Street" instead of "59 Street".

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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Feb 24 14:10:36 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 07:34:29 2005.

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Mmmm, yeah, I think you're right.

--Mark

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Rican Havoc on Thu Feb 24 15:42:20 2005, in response to The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Feb 22 15:17:46 2005.

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Well in the 70's during the summer my mom used to take me and my brother to Coney Island from Midtown Manhattan. We would take the 8th ave local (AA,C,E) to west 4th and catch the F train to CI. Even though the B went there too, my mom would insist on taking the F since it was the only line there that had A/C (R46). Also the B (I think they were R32's and the slants)used to be filthy. As kids we would look out the side windows by kneeling on the benches and placing our arms on the window sill. Always by the time we were appoching Stillwell our arms would be black with dirt. I do also remember cars with out lighting was common. As kids we would pray for a dark car.

As for areas in NYC you wouldn't go near there were many. Alphabet City from Avenue A-C was a war zone with ex hippes and druggies. Williamsburg was also a big no no. The whole QJ line from Marcy all the way to about Alabama Avenue was scary especially at night. It was still simmering from the fires and looting from the blackout. And I do remember that gangs was a big thing back then. And the subway was were they hung out alot. And if I recall many of the subway stations back then didn't have Florecent lighting yet.

Buying a token was pretty much optional too. I remember in 1984 I was waiting for a friend in the 116th street station (Lexington Line)And I would say that about 15% of the people actually paid. The rest went right through the old yellow exit doors. In fact, I remember seeing a whole family walking right in. Mom, Dad and the kids, as if it were no big deal.

Though the subway system is so much better now, I wish I could go back in time and relive that period. The subway seemed to have so much more character back then. Or maybe I am just crazy.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 24 15:54:15 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Feb 23 18:24:06 2005.

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By 1980, seeing R-10s on the A was a rare sight. I got lucky once during rush hour around that timeframe and got one at 59th St. For that day, one set of Thunderbirds was back where it belonged.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 24 16:03:51 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 09:19:37 2005.

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That interior green was pistachio green. Rumor has it that the TA made a sweet deal with a paint vendor who was trying to get rid of that particular tint and applied it to everything that moved. It looked awful!

IIRC the R-27/30 interiors did not change when they were painted red. I do remember when the silver-and-blue paint scheme began to appear and frankly, it looked pretty good. Unfortunately, the graffiti epidemic hit not long after the repainting program got under way, so no one ever got used to seeing clean silver and blue LAHT steel cars.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 16:06:43 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 24 16:03:51 2005.

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IIRC the R-27/30 interiors did not change when they were painted red.
The interiors of the R30's were changed when the exteriors were painted red. The seats were painted gray (over the original pink fiberglass), the doors became red like the exterior, and the walls were beige (like they had been with the orange door scheme with the MTA silver and blue exterior scheme).

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 24 16:48:14 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 12:27:10 2005.

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The R-14s must have been pulled late in 1984 because I remember seeing a few of them in October of 1984. I also saw some of the first rebuilt Redbird R-36s. That trip also marked one of the very few times I ever rode on an R-17 other than on the 42nd St. shuttle.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by DreamSubward on Thu Feb 24 16:49:07 2005, in response to The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Feb 22 15:17:46 2005.

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http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?36256

It is in 1981, the R38 looks brand new
but the bus looks f**ked up.

Why is that?

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 16:49:57 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 24 16:48:14 2005.

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The last R14/15's were retired in November as the R62's came into service.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 16:52:40 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Charles G on Thu Feb 24 09:51:02 2005.

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I remember the phony windows. Many Broadway buildings received them. Typical Koch move, cover it up ...

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 16:53:36 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 10:09:37 2005.

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There's a building on Fulton/Autumn which still has them!

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by vengence on Thu Feb 24 17:08:50 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Charles G on Wed Feb 23 13:18:21 2005.

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I lived up the street from the El...

The 77 Blackout...torn the ass out of the neighborhood....

It's JUST RECOVERING NOW....

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 17:13:44 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by vengence on Thu Feb 24 17:08:50 2005.

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Thank god I was only 5 and blissfully unaware of how close the carnage got to Woodhaven...

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Feb 24 17:25:10 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Rican Havoc on Thu Feb 24 15:42:20 2005.

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Of course, you could always try Italy.... last I looked, they had graffiti on some of THEIR trains. (Of course, last I looked, it was before 9/11.)

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by The Port of Authority on Thu Feb 24 18:14:58 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by DreamSubward on Thu Feb 24 16:49:07 2005.

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That R38 hadn't been GOHed yet. It may have just been through the wash though...

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Feb 24 19:00:51 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by DreamSubward on Thu Feb 24 16:49:07 2005.

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Linked

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Mike F on Thu Feb 24 19:50:30 2005, in response to The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Feb 22 15:17:46 2005.

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There was a thread on Subtalk last year by Far Rockaway A Train with a whole bunch of photos from the era.

Here's the thread: http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=679124

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 19:59:10 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by DreamSubward on Thu Feb 24 16:49:07 2005.

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The photographer probably caught that R38 the morning the consist was cleaned. It probably got tagged before the PM rush even began.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 25 09:07:10 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 23 21:30:35 2005.

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We were able to positively identify one of my grandfather's 1936 photos thanks to one building that is still standing next to the Chauncey St. station that was also there in 1936. It's now the Wayside Baptist Church, formerly the Colonial Theater.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 25 09:11:12 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 17:13:44 2005.

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I flew out of JFK to Switzerland the day before the blackout and remember reading about it in Zurich.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 25 09:12:45 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 24 16:49:57 2005.

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Sounds as if I was there at the right time, then.:) I also remember seeing R-62s rip past 28th St. on the Lex.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 25 09:14:09 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 24 16:06:43 2005.

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Yes, when they were painted Redbird red. I'm talking about the tartar red scheme they received around 1969.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Feb 25 09:43:04 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by DreamSubward on Thu Feb 24 16:49:07 2005.

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The bus looks beautiful! I'd kill to ride that bus today.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 25 10:59:33 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Feb 25 09:43:04 2005.

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I lived on a bus street for a while in QUeens, so I remember those buses passing all the time, although, I remember them looking even worse than that for a while! I am not much of a busfan, but wouldn't mind riding one of them a bit.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 25 11:16:48 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 25 10:59:33 2005.

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Ugh, the pic reminds me of the awful change from the J to the Q49 at Queens Blvd back in the day. I get motion sickness just by looking at it.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Fytton on Fri Feb 25 11:40:58 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by DreamSubward on Thu Feb 24 16:49:07 2005.

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I'm puzzled. I am aware how bad the subway got with graffiti and general filth in the 1970s-80s, but that particular photo doesn't look so bad. No graffiti that I can see, and the bus just looks a little down at heel but not disastrous. Yet people here are saying "yuck".

I'm reminded of the old TV show 'St Elsewhere'. It was based at St Eligius hospital in Boston which was supposed to be the least favoured hospital in the city (hence its nickname St Elsewhere). The joke was lost on us here in the UK, because all our hospitals look like that!

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Feb 25 15:53:23 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 25 10:59:33 2005.

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They looked much worse than that in Manhattan.

But the buses never looked nearly as bad as the trains did.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by trains61 on Fri Feb 25 20:48:01 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Rican Havoc on Thu Feb 24 15:42:20 2005.

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No not crazy. Everyone was not afraid of a dark car. If it was the first car, you could see even better out the RFW.

If you were cool, you hoped a R-40 slant would come along so you could ride between the cars.

The Motorman and Conductor must have hated when high school let out, but it was not uncommon for somebody to pull the cord between Euclid and ENY, or get into the cab and start making erroneous announcements.

Bottomline, when you don`t know anything better it all seems normal. People have a tendancy on this board to look back from todays perspective. Back then complaints went unanswered so you just dealt with it. Subways still cheaper than owning a car:)

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 25 21:54:47 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by trains61 on Fri Feb 25 20:48:01 2005.

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Everyone was not afraid of a dark car.

If enough people were in it, it was safe and a fun ride. I can still recall rocketing up CPW on a dark R42 D train in 1986. The tunnel lighting went by so fast that a strobe effect was established. Must've been even funkier if you were hepped up on goofballs.

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Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Feb 25 21:57:02 2005, in response to The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Feb 22 15:17:46 2005.

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I went up to NYC to see the Gates, to go to Greenwich Village, etc., and I did both of those, but I discovered car 3928 on the A (i think) stinking of urine at one end and with graffiti (badly cleaned graffiti, anyway) all over the interior. The stainless steel exterior was pristine, though.

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Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by mr_brian on Fri Feb 25 21:59:28 2005, in response to Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Feb 25 21:57:02 2005.

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Um i don't see graffiti covering every square inch of the car...

But yea, that doesn't look cool. Just hope it doesn't spread.

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Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 00:53:01 2005, in response to Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Feb 25 21:57:02 2005.

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Sorry, but still not close to what was in the 70's and 80's.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 01:01:22 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Fytton on Fri Feb 25 11:40:58 2005.

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The bus is not as bad as most of them were in the 70's and that train is DEFINITELY an anormality for the time.

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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 01:03:55 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 25 09:07:10 2005.

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Here's the Colonial Theater from under the El, that I took last spring:



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Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?

Posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 01:34:48 2005, in response to Re: The subway during the 1970's, how bad did it really get?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 22 19:03:38 2005.

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I remember once riding a J train from Jamaica into Williamsburg aroung 1974 or 1975. At around the Van Siclin Avenue station a bunch of people came running into our car from the next car. Some dudes had started breaking all of the windows in that car. I could hear all the glass breaking and remember thinking that I was gonna hold my ground come hell or high water if they came into our car too.

But still, I spent alot of time all over the city in the 70s and I never had a problem on the trains. Never got messed with, held up or harrassed. And I'm not a big guy. (Oh wait...once, when I was walking out of the Woolworths at Marcy Avene I felt something fall on my head as a train rumbled by on the Broadway el. Freaked for a second; thought somebody had tossed a coke bottle out. But it was just a light bulb they must have unscrewed from the ceiling.)

Used to walk over the Willy B often. Even went to the Pitt Street pool that way with my girlfriend once. Hah. I have to laugh at how I introduced my Dominicana novia to getting around the city by the buses and trains by herself. Me, a Long Island boy showing the Brooklyn chick how to get to Kings Plaza and Staten Island! She was 16, I was 20 and she had really never spent much time out of the neighborhood. I was a transit freak from the get go so as a rule, any girlfriend of mine will catch a bit of my "infection".

And back then, I used the E.N.Y. stations of the subway and the LIRR frequently. Sometimes I'd take the J to Eastern Parkway and catch the LIRR there; other times I'd ride the el out to Suphtin Blvd. Even rode a bike from Suffolk into Brooklyn a few times.

Not only that, and you'll think I was nuts, but once in a while I use to leave my girlfriends family apartment in the Taylor-Wythe Houses on Sunday night, sometimes around midnight and walk up to the Washington Plaza bus station. I'd catch a B39 to Allen Street, use my paper transfer to catch a First Avenue bus up to 34th Street. Wherupon I'd walk over to the Midtown Tunnel area, stick out my thumb and give it a shot! Got a ride every time too. (I was unemployed so I wouldn't mind if it took a long time to get back home. On warm summer nights...it was a trip in itself.) In fact, I hitchiked back and forth between L.I. and the city hundreds of times throughout the mid-seventies to early eighties. It got to be like taking a bus or something...

All in all, what I'm saying is while the graffiti was rampant, the city itself was still a dynamic, livable, enjoyable place to be. As always, you had to be on your toes. What else is new?


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Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 26 02:00:36 2005, in response to Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Feb 25 21:57:02 2005.

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So what? Graffiti is still around, it's just cleaned off sooner. As for the lousy job, amy times there are time constraints in that the train is needed to make a trip and a more thorough job can be done when the train is laid up.

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Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 02:45:48 2005, in response to Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Feb 25 21:57:02 2005.

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Dude, you better watch your a@@ with those "candid camera" shots you're taking. It ain't a nice thing to be doing that to folks on the train. People don't like it. Think about it: Who the hell are you to be invading their privacy like that? Somebody is gonna knock that cellphone cam or whatever right out of your hand.

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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by xtimx on Sat Feb 26 03:49:10 2005, in response to Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 02:45:48 2005.

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privacy? you can't get more public than being on "PUBLIC" transportation.


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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by BIE on Sat Feb 26 07:42:18 2005, in response to Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 02:45:48 2005.

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Funny, I saw no other people in those pictures.

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Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:27:21 2005, in response to Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Feb 26 00:53:01 2005.

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The point is, we don't want it getting any worse, so we might as well report it, eh?

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Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:28:55 2005, in response to Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 26 02:00:36 2005.

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Yeah, but this was worse than most of the cars I've seen in recent years.

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Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:29:34 2005, in response to Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by mr_brian on Fri Feb 25 21:59:28 2005.

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I don't AIM to let the cancer spread.

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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:31:07 2005, in response to Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 02:45:48 2005.

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To anyone I offended with this picture-taking: I apologize. However, it was necessary to snap a shot or two in order to expose the graffiti to the outside world.

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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:32:22 2005, in response to Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by xtimx on Sat Feb 26 03:49:10 2005.

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It takes a while for some folks to realize that, judging from the odor in one end of #3928.

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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:34:21 2005, in response to Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by BIE on Sat Feb 26 07:42:18 2005.

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You weren't looking hard enough. I wasn't aiming at the people, however; I was aiming at the graffiti, and the people happened to get in the way.
Oh, and the blurriness is due to the fact that I was on a MOVING train.

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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 11:30:17 2005, in response to Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Feb 26 09:32:22 2005.

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"It takes a while for some folks to realize that, judging from the odor in one end of #3928."

...and so you're saying that makes it okay to take un-asked-for photographs of any of the passengers on that train? In addition to making judgements about folks in the car? IMO you need to do some serious thinking over your methodologies. Think of everyone on that train as being worthy of dignity and privacy, screw the fact that it's "public transit". Try walking along a traffic filled street, pointing your camera into cars as you walk by them. You'd wind up with a crowbar across your head, by and by. Well, that's how you should consider those train passengers. Imagine that each is surrounded by a "cone of silence". If it was me you were leaning over taking your "fan" pics I hope you understand why I would have stood up and confronted you.


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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Feb 26 11:39:20 2005, in response to Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 02:45:48 2005.

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Um, there's no expectation of privacy when you're on the subway. They can bitch, but they can't stop you.

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Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!

Posted by BIE on Sat Feb 26 11:51:30 2005, in response to Re: Hey! Get That Camera Outta My Face! Re: Car 3928 goes retro!, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 26 11:30:17 2005.

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No two ways about it. You love the photoban.

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