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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 11:15:53 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 10:04:19 2007. There really is a lot of misinformation out there about what a police officer can or cannot do and what are the legal obligations of a person if stopped, questioned or detained by a cop. While you have a legal right not to say anything or even identify yourself, you also have a legal right not to hand over your wallet to a robber holding a gun or knife pointed at you. Sometimes it's more practical not to stand on legal technicalities...at least at the point of confrontation. What always seems to work to varying degrees is to respond with something along the lines of, "hey, do you know my sister? She's "on the job". Make up a name, he wouldn't know her anyway with over 30,000 NYPD members. Or something along those lines. Cops usually go soft on family members of their own. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 11:28:17 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 11:02:31 2007. Yes you do |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 11:33:25 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 11:15:53 2007. There really is a lot of misinformation out there about what a police officer can or cannot do...Yes and unfortunately you are contributing to it. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 11:37:23 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 11:33:25 2007. Like I said, sometimes even when I think I'm right I might be wrong. Hate it when that happens. But I would like to know my errors so as not to repeat them. Please advise in what way I am contributing to the misinformation. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 11:51:56 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 11:14:00 2007. Actually, you're not the only one. My left foot has been falling asleep of late separate from the rest of the body. Take a wrong step and I crumple down if I can't grab onto something. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by R30A on Sat May 5 11:58:48 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 10:03:01 2007. only IF you are breaking a law. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 12:00:53 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 11:37:23 2007. You said that you do not have to identify yourself to police when in fact the courts have ruled (see the links I provided to you earlier or google "stop and identify") that if the police think that you have or are about to commit a crime that you have to identify yourself. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 12:01:03 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 09:04:08 2007. Now if only they would let you use MetroCard in the Muni-Meter ;-)I buy the MuniMeter cards and they are more convenient than carrying quarters but it would be nice if one card would work for all transportation modes... |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 12:04:50 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by R30A on Sat May 5 11:58:48 2007. Only if they have a reasonable suspicion that you did or were about to if I understand the ruling correctly. They could theoretically have the wrong guy. They won't know until they determine your ID. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 12:12:29 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by R30A on Sat May 5 11:58:48 2007. If you are stopped in such a case, almost always, one is assumed to have committed some violation. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 12:13:58 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 12:04:50 2007. Having the same name won't help though...someone got arrested nine times and spent many days in jail all because a career criminal on the run had the same name as this person, who, this aside, never had a run-in with the law.It got so bad that a judge issued the non-criminal one a letter saying that he is not the one. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 12:14:50 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 12:01:03 2007. The worst though would be if you are walking to the Muni-Meter, and before you get back, a ticket is being written. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 12:15:18 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 12:14:50 2007. WHICH is why the law needs to be changed to provide a five-minute grace period. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 12:30:07 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 12:00:53 2007. Thanks. I guess there are too many variables to make a blanket statement. If stopped while driving a car would be quite a different story. If the peron stopped (for any reason, even for taking photos) is actually on the FBI top ten list giving his name might be considered being forced to incriminate himself. If the police officer "thinks" you have committed or are about to commit a crime, in my opinion wouldn't do it. I think the PO would have to have "reason to believe" which would be a higher standard than mere suspicion. Anyway, considering that our nation's highest court with the supposedly best legal minds often can't all agree (5-4 splits)...So, I don't think there is a criminal charge for an innocent person refusing to give his name when asked and if the PO takes that person into custody without "probable cause" would constitute a false arrest. The options are to give true name, to give false name or refuse to give name. I'd be hesitant to give a false name; could be construed as interferring with the administration of justice. I think lying to a fed is a crime but not so to a state or local cop unless under oath. Hey, the cops use lies as a legally approved investigative tool. Actually, if a police officer has "reason to believe" a crime was committed and the detainee committed it the PO can legally arrest, book, fingerprint, etc. even if, in fact no crime had been committed at all. Different rules for offenses not constituting crimes (violations, for example). Also, there may be different rules for police officers vis-a vis peace officer but I'm not sure. We are splitting some pretty fine hairs and I am aware that laws and rules change from time to time and state to state and it's been a very long time ago that I learned & used this stuff. I hope I wasn't daydreaming during class and missed something. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by JPC on Sat May 5 12:32:43 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 11:03:21 2007. "King George" has NOTHING to do with this shit that is happening.I was referring to shit in general, not "photobahn" shit. And yes, King George is directly or indirectly responsible for much of the shit in general. And with the shit in general that is going on (suspension of habeas corpus, warrantless wiretaps, rampant corruption, Nixonian secrecy, illegal wars, defiance of Congress and of public opinion), if I had to write my list of complaints to King George, the "photobahn" would be about #739 on the list (that's how insignificant it is compared to the shit that King George is responsible for). But the "photobahn" is an example of what I like to call "Bushian thinking" (if you'll accept the oxymoron), in that it makes the same sort of assumptions - everyone's a suspect, anybody can be questioned or detained for any reason, the rights of suspects are something you honor if you feel like it and it's convenient for you, citizens have no privacy - their lives are open books and they have no right or reason to not say anything and everything to a prying government official...) But I'm sorry if my post was confusing, King George shit vs. photobahn shit. But to jump into the maelstrom... at the 2004 RNC, for example, many of the more egregious policies adopted by the NYPD with regards to protesters were adopted at the insistence of federal officials (they may have done them anyway without the federal prompting, but it is clear that the feds were pushing various ideas down their throat, and they didn't even accept all of them!) I don't know if you've heard of this, but last year a volunteer EMT in NYC was arrested by the NYPD for carrying a badge (something virtually all of us do). He wasn't displaying it or trying to "tin" his way out of a ticket or into a building; it was in his bag. The NYPD made the collar, but only because a Federal Protective Service officer absolutely insisted that they do so. Since then there has been a big brouhaha in NY State over this (I can send you more info if you're interested). The NYPD really doesn't care (I know many members of the NYPD and this is what they're telling me) as long as you don't try to do stupid things with a shield. But the Feds are really pushing this badge business, and Homeland Security officials are pressuring the NY State legislatures not to take action to resolve the confusion (and thus far they have been mostly successful). In an ideal federalist society (you know, the one envisioned by the Founding Fathers), the states would be able to operate more or less independently of the national government (and indeed, that was the way it was for half of this country's history). But since then we've had the 16th Amendment (among others), and power-hungry presidents like FDR who have consolidated power in the national government and decreased state independence. King George is just the latest step in power centralization. So yes, federal pressure IS responsible for some fraction of the shit that takes place at local and state level. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by JPC on Sat May 5 12:34:42 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by SMAZ on Sat May 5 04:47:40 2007. Hey, don't knock it - POWs have more rights than many of our government's detainees. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Sat May 5 13:02:17 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Nilet on Sat May 5 10:47:55 2007. Comon sense eh?Funny she should use that term with her arguement. Sadly another person who's thrown in the towel & is saying....these terrorist have achieved victory & altered our behavior. Sickening really. Jimmymc25 |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat May 5 13:56:40 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by jimmymc25 on Sat May 5 13:02:17 2007. Yeah. *sigh*I'm always irked by people who constantly want to do this or that due to "terrorism." <rant volume=loud letters=capital style=venting> LOOK AT THE WORD "TERRORISM!" YOU MAY NOTICE THAT IT HAS THE WORD "TERROR" IN IT! THE POINT OF A TERRORIST ATTACK IS TO TERRIFY THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T KILLED! THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT FROM A NON-TERRORIST ATTACK! THE PURPOSE IS TO TERRIFY THE SURVIVORS INTO DOING WHATEVER YOU WANT THEM TO DO! IF YOU ARE WILLING TO GIVE UP YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS, THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON! IF YOU ARE LIVING IN FEAR, THE TERRORISTS HAVE DONE THEIR JOB! DON'T YOU GET IT?!! </rant> Funny, I feel absolutely nothing like how I come across. You really should see me now. I've got utterly horrible allergies. Also, can I borrow a few capital letters from somebody? I think I used up most of my capital letter allowance for that post. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:16:49 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 5 09:36:39 2007. In the 1960s there were a half dozen movie theaters along Flatbush Avenue in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Non of the theaters had their own parking lots, but there were plenty of parking meters in effect until 7 PM. But the city fathers at that time saw in their infinite wisdom that since the commercial area was active until late evening hours, why not get more revenue by extending the meters until 10 PM? And so it was done. After about two years, four of the six theaters closed down since the evenings was when they did most of their business, but there was no place to park anymore since you could only stay for one hour at the meters. People just started to go elsewhere to see their movie where they could park. Fewer people at the movies also meant less people shopping and the stores began to close earlier, so the meters once again expired at 7 PM.I've heard other stories about the area's decline due to a "changing neighborhood," increased crime, etc, but I distinctly remember the parking meters playing an important role. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:18:27 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 09:28:37 2007. But you shouldn't be punished if they are not working. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:22:15 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 06:40:49 2007. No, only if other spots are vacant when you parked.By the same token, you should not be allowed to pull into a space with time on the meter and walk away if another nearby meter shows it has expired. Wonder if they got a law for that too. That's another reason why the city likes Muni meters. You can't use someone else's time. Many people use only 10 minutes of their allowed thirty minutes and others use the remaining time. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AlM on Sat May 5 17:02:55 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 5 09:36:39 2007. Why park on Main Street when you can go to a mall and not drop a penny? Dumbasses! :(Down here many of the malls charge for parking too! |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 17:05:14 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 5 09:36:39 2007. Problem is, the big malls within NYC (as well as the White Plains Galleria) have parking as yet another revenue source. While Kings Plaza charges a flat fee, Queens Center charges by the hour.And yes, employees are expected to be in a position to take transit...no discounts for them either. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 18:41:15 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 11:28:17 2007. HMMmm...Yes and No. In a valid Terry Stop, yes you must identify. On a casual stop without cause then no you need not identify. The Decision: "Finally, addressing Hiibel's concerns that the statute allows police officers to arrest persons just because they look suspicious, the Court noted that under Terry, the stop must be justified at its inception and limited in scope and duration. In other words, an officer may not arrest an individual for merely failing to identify himself if the request for identification is not reasonably related to the circumstances justifying the stop. That is, if a police officer stops a person for no apparent reason and then asks the person for his name, the officer cannot cite the stop-and-identify statute as his basis for a subsequent arrest because there was no lawful basis for the stop in the first place. However, in the Hiibel case, the Court found the request for identification was related in scope to the circumstances that justified the stop. The officer's request was a commonsense inquiry in responding to a call reporting domestic violence, and not simply an effort to arrest a suspect for failing to provide identification after the officer could find no sufficient evidence of a crime. Conclusion In sum, Hiibel holds a state may criminalize a refusal to produce identification as long as the detention is predicated on a valid Terry stop (i.e., reasonable suspicion). In other words, police officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment when they arrest an individual after the individual refuses to provide identification during a lawful detention pursuant to their state's stop-and-identify statute. Certainly, it should come as no surprise that the remaining state legislatures might enact similar stop-and-identify statutes. No doubt such enactments provide law enforcement with another important tool to ensure officer safety during brief and seemingly innocuous encounters. " |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 18:44:36 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 12:00:53 2007. No. Your Links on Google is exactly where I found my Yes and No answer to you.If the officer has reasonable cause to stop you, then yes, you must identify. If he has no cause to stop you, then no, you need not. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 19:05:49 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 18:44:36 2007. Thanks. There are even fewer cases where you are actually required to identify yourself than I thought.From my experience this case hasn't yet made its way into the real life world of law enforcement. The cops that gave me a ticket all said that I have to show my ID (not just identify myself) when a police officer asks no matter the reason. I've since asked several other cops and they all said the same thing. On that message board that zdeno linked to all of the cops said the same thing. Others here have posted that the NYPD has required that they present their ID. Cops must get some pretty poor training for them not to be aware of what they are and are not allowed to do during a stop. These are basic rules. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:03:37 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:16:49 2007. Parking meters aren't for revenue (at least that isn't what they're supposed to be for), they're to allow parking to turn over. if it weren't for parking meters, then people would park there all day and customers wouldn't have any place to park. I'd rather pay a few quarters for parking then not have it at all. The problem you cited was clearly the city being greedy and using the meters for revenue which of course defeats their purpose. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:05:29 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:03:37 2007. And that greed is also what unfortunately eliminated Sunday meters in the city. It used to be that Sunday metering was only done in places where it made sense, where business did not diminish on Sunday. The DOT decided in its infinite wisdom that practically every place should have meters charge on Sunday, so the City Council eliminated Sunday meters citywide, even where it makes sense. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:10:24 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 10:03:01 2007. Only if you're being arrested or charged with a crime. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:17:05 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:18:27 2007. Yes, if you park within the one hour time limit. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:17:57 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:22:15 2007. By the same token, you should not be allowed to pull into a space with time on the meter and walk away if another nearby meter shows it has expired. Wonder if they got a law for that too.No, they don't. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 21:47:53 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:05:29 2007. I think that was Bloomberg's decision to raise revenue for the city and it backfired. Even the municipal parking lots are now free on Sunday. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 21:51:29 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 15:22:15 2007. If I see someone pull into a spot and I am getting ready to pull out I hand them my muni meter ticket - sometimes it has enough time left on it that they don't need to do anything other than stick it on their dash... |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 5 22:00:20 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Sat May 5 20:17:05 2007. But if it's a two hour meter and you need more than one hour, you are being punished by having to look for another space. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 22:07:11 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Sat May 5 21:47:53 2007. Municipal lots are free on Sundays. Municipal GARAGES operated by private companies under contract to the city aren't, however.Also, Sunday parking meter eliminations were passed---you guessed it---over the mayor's veto. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by tankertom on Sat May 5 23:21:14 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 19:05:49 2007. Used to be I thought a National (photo) ID card would be a good idea but that seems to be contrary to the freedom and liberty concept consensus. While stationed in Germany with the US Army a long time ago I was impressed that not only did all the citizens carry their passports but were all registered at the local police station. When a person moved he/she registered with the new local police station. Very orderly. Also, tickets to ride the trolley were sold at vending machines but not collected on board. In my naivete I asked "why bother buying a ticket to ride if no one checks?" The response was basically because it's the law and no one would dare take the chance of being caught without a ticket should an official ever ask to see it. I once made an illegal left turn and was pulled over by a German cop. He asked for 5 DM which I gave him. I thought I was being shakened down. But I got a receipt and later learned that's how it is there. If a motorist commited a traffic infraction and was caught he was fined on the spot. The fine was reasonable; no hassle, no court appearance. It's a balancing act between freedom and necessary regulation I guess. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 23:44:41 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by JPC on Sat May 5 12:34:42 2007. Those we are detaining in Cuba DO NOT qualify as POWs.They were not fighting for a country or a flag, They were not in the uniform of their country or under the command of their country. As spies or saboteurs they, according to the Geneva Convention, may be shot at our convenience. Thus they *ARE* receiving extraordinary care and attention in their detention. ROAR |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun May 6 00:53:37 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 23:44:41 2007. Those we are detaining in Cuba DO NOT qualify as POWs.Well, either they're POWs (and protected by the Geneva conventions) or they're ordinary suspected criminals (and thus protected by the US Constitution). One or the other. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun May 6 00:59:35 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun May 6 00:53:37 2007. Even US citizens can no longer expect the protection of the US Constitution. Look at Jose Padilla. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 6 01:50:03 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun May 6 00:59:35 2007. Eh? Padilla is classified as an enemy combatant.How come this thread ain't swimming with the fishies? |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 02:09:07 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Nilet on Sat May 5 13:56:40 2007. TRUTH!! |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 02:11:17 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat May 5 23:44:41 2007. The Supreme Court ruled that they are protected by the Geneva Conventions. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 6 02:26:57 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 02:11:17 2007. Who and when? |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun May 6 02:45:23 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun May 6 00:59:35 2007.  Well, that's a violation of the law. Legally, US citizens are entitled to the protections spelled out in the Constitution, and non-US suspected terrorists are entitled either to the protections of the Constitution or the Geneva conventions. In practice, we could probably be thrown in jail and held indefinitely on any or no charges that we may or may not have been convicted of with or without evidence, real, secret, or imaginary. According to the blatantly unconstitutional Military Commissions Act, our President has the power of a military dictator and can imprison anyone he chooses for any or no reason. (Although this would be political suicide and quite likely actual suicide; if he really tried to do that, someone would probably be patriotic enough to assassinate him.) So although Jose Padilla was a US citizen imprisoned with no charges and deprived of his basic constitutional rights, this was in violation of several laws spelled out quite clearly in the Constitution itself. Why this president hasn't been impeached yet is beyond me. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun May 6 02:51:34 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 6 01:50:03 2007. Eh? Padilla is classified as an enemy combatant. "Enemy combatant" is not a meaningful term. Either he's a foreign soldier in a war against the US, in which case he's a POW under the protections of the Geneva conventions, or he's a suspected criminal, in which case he's entitled to the protections the US Constitution affords to suspected criminals. The Constitution quite clearly states that a president cannot detain someone without charges simply by changing the words used to describe them. How come this thread ain't swimming with the fishies? Because you're not in charge of SubChat? |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 02:54:24 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 5 09:25:58 2007. I doubt the superiors would alter it for something so minor. Cover-ups usually happen when something big is at stake such as police brutalty or big time misconduct. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 03:31:32 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 6 02:26:57 2007. Last June. It was a 5-3 decision (Chief Justice Roberts recused himself because he had written the opinion being challenged while still on the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals). It's the decision that forced Congress to formally write the Military Commissions Act into law in accordance with the SCOTUS ruling. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 03:38:15 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun May 6 02:45:23 2007. Padilla was transfered from military to civilan custody so the Administration wouldn't lose any more legal challenges. They are having jury selection in his trial in US District Court in Miami. They also dropped the "dirty bomb" charges against him. (Actually those charges were never even filed while he was in the brig in Charleston, SC). He doesn't fall under the Miltary Commissions Act since he's a US Citizen. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun May 6 10:13:30 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun May 6 00:53:37 2007. NOPE. They are subversives, which under international law may be shot at our convenience.ROAR |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun May 6 10:19:18 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 6 02:11:17 2007. And according to the Geneva Conventions, subversives may be shot.PERIOD. These people were captured on the field of combat by combat troops and did not have any command structure, national alligences, uniforms, or other accouterments that would accord them protections as POWs. Ergo BANG |
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