ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! (422846) | |
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(422846) | |
ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007 I took photos and video on the Jamaica el, covering the (J) G.O. at Broadway Junction. Afterwards, I decided to get the other end ot the (A) G.O. at Utica. Several TA workers told me photography was illegal. The first one was on the Manhattan-bound platform; I showed him my copy of 1050.9(c) and he said it only applied to the press. I read it aloud, emphasizing that anyone could take photos, though only the press could use tripods. He insisted that it didn’t apply underground. The second time was on the Queens-bound platform. I told them that 1050.9(c) permitted photography. Then, an announcement was made over the station PA that photography was prohibited. I was told that I could, if I wanted, show my paper to the people in the tower. I did so, and the woman said that photography had been prohibited after 9/11. I should that my paper was dated after 9/11; in fact, it was dated 8/12/06. She said simply that “her superiors” told her photography was prohibited but that she couldn’t stop me. A T/O also told me photography was prohibited, and didn’t really respond to 1050.9(c) either. Then the cops came. They looked at the paper, asked for ID, and asked why I was taking pics. I said I was a railfan; they acted incredulous; “why do you like taking train pics; trains are ugly” or something like that. I said that I found beauty in anything (secret to happiness!) and that no one can really choose what they enjoy doing. I mentioned that I often take rail pics, and I’m not the only one. They asked to see a few pics nicely, so I showed them a few. They started looking through all of my pics, so I told them I was invoking the fourth amendment, and asked for the camera back. They said that I was making people jittery (or something) and told me to stop taking pics and get on the train or leave. I told them I’d like to record their badge numbers (on my camera, since I had no paper; I told them I’d cover the lens if they wanted) and recorded numbers, then proceded to walk out to the shuttle buses. As I was leaving, one of the same cops from before came up, told me to wait, then handcuffed me and ordered me to sit on a bench. Her partner followed and stood nearby while she took the camera away and out of sight. Something was mentioned about a sergeant, though one never showed up. I told them that they needed probable cause, since this was a search, but they didn’t give me anything other than “we suspect you’re going to do something illegal.” After awhile, the first cop came back, returned the camera, and removed the handcuffs. Suspicious, I turned the camera on and found all of my photos and videos deleted! I asked what happened; she said: “You can’t prove I deleted them. I don’t even know how to work that camera.” They went off, telling me that they would be back and threatened something along the lines of: “I’d better not see you taking pics when we get back.” Since their badge numbers were on the camera and had been deleted too, I chased after them and got the numbers again, re-recording them on my camera. Now for the questions: 1. Since my pictures were destroyed, this was essentially a robbery. At minimum, it was negligence, since the pictures were lost while she had taken the camera by force against my will. How do I press criminal charges against a cop? 2. How do I go about suing? Since my property was destroyed, I expect damages. 3. Is there some way of recovering the lost files? I haven’t recorded over on the same memory card. I’ll be filing a complaint, of course, but I’m also hoping to sue and/or press criminal charges. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Jackson Park B train on Sun Apr 29 20:47:16 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. start w/ ACLU. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 20:50:19 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Wow, you really got it good this time!1. I don't know, but press charges! 2. I don't know, but sue! 3. Yes, download or buy file recovery software! |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 20:58:04 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Damn dude. That sucks! Sorry that you had to go through that. I don't know the law, but I would consult a lawyer. I'd go for a regular lawyer instead of the ACLU. They take a long time to respond and may end up saying that they're not interested in helping you. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 29 20:59:01 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. i would have ''faked deletion'' of the pictureshow would they prove you did not format them ? with a ''false arrest'' ?? also i would demand a full reciept from the police / sheriffs BEFORE they could take the camera way also i would ask if i refused to GIVE YOU MY CAMERA will U arrest me? imediately i would take the battery out put the camera back in the case put the memory stick / card in another place in my bag finally i would return to THE SAME PLACE another day and re take all of my PHOTOS !!! |
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Posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 20:59:26 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Nilet,Why do you have another story every week? Do you act extremely suspicious? There has to be a reason. Police are rational. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:01:07 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 29 20:59:01 2007. I couldn't fake deletion. They handcuffed me, took the camera by force, and deleted the pics themselves. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:03:03 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 20:59:26 2007. I don't have a story every week. So far, only one incident involving clearly illegal activity on NYCT. Maybe I'm a little less aware of my surroundings than other people may be. Maybe the long hair? The fact that I'm 19? I don't know. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:03:39 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 20:58:04 2007. Hm, my parents suggested the NYCLU instead of the ACLU. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 29 21:04:05 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Wow..Thats jacked up. They TOTALLY DISSED you...and cover their collective asses by telling you that "You can't prove that I erased your pictures".. I'd take it to the ACLU..file a complaint at one police plaza or where ever I'd have to..and get in with some others of simular mindset. Pursue this..what they did was WRONG. |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:04:12 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 20:59:26 2007. Police are rational.Often they are, but police are just regular people. Maybe they don't have more than their fair share of assholes, but because of the authority that they get from the uniform it sure seem like they do. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 29 21:04:49 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:01:07 2007. OH HELL NOI AM ON YOUR TEAM NOW ............................... did they damage your camera in any way ?? i hope you got the original RECIEPT so you can sue !! OH HELL NO I AM ON YOUR TEAM NOW ............................... |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:05:17 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:03:39 2007. Isn't that the same thing? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:05:31 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 20:50:19 2007. Ah, file recovery software exists? Good!I recorded over the card with 1 pic (of an (A) train) and about 7 seconds of video (of the officers' badge numbers), but most was not overwritten. Hopefully, I can recover at least the vital stuff like the (J) entering Broadway Junction on the middle track and the R160 in ENY yard. |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:06:37 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:05:31 2007. Wouldn't recovering the pictures weaken your case that your property was damaged? |
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Posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 21:06:55 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:03:03 2007. I seem to recall you posting issues with cops and transit employees all the time. At least 3-4.There is something about you that rubs people the wrong way if this keeps occuring. I suggest you find that quality and try to eliminate its persistence. I am not giving an opinion in this case as I have not heard the police officers side of the story. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:07:34 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 29 21:04:49 2007. The camera seems largely undamaged. If it were damaged, I'd have to name Terrapin as a fellow plaintiff since the camera is borrowed from him. I took one pic afterwards, so it clearly still works. |
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Posted by (3) Livonia Ave. Local on Sun Apr 29 21:07:40 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Damn, I'm really sorry that happened to you. To delete evidence, that's definitely a crime. They were trying to make you shut up by giving you nothing to fight with. Take this somewhere, don't let it go. How can we get it out there that 1050.9c, which was in your hand throughout, proves we can take pictures? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 29 21:09:38 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:07:34 2007. i am sorry you cant start by a LAWSUITI would go back to the same locations very soon !! fight back |
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Posted by American Pig on Sun Apr 29 21:10:16 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:06:37 2007. If someone breaks something of yours but you manage to glue it back such that it's good as new, does that mean that it hasn't been damaged? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:11:14 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:06:37 2007. If I can recover the pics, I wouldn't need to sue. The idea of a lawsuit is to recover the value of my destroyed property; if my property wasn't really destroyed and can be restored completely, then that's better for everyone. I'd rather have my pics recovered unharmed than win some piddling sum (if anything) after a long legal fight. |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 29 21:12:29 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. I would love to meet these cops, we need to railfan one day. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:14:29 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 20:59:26 2007. Police are rational.As a whole, yes. I've had numerous encounters with cops who were extremely polite and just doing their job. Of course, I don't usually post those encounters. Of course, police (being human) have a couple of complete assholes among their ranks as well. Unfortunately, with the salary for a new recruit being so low, the police force has to scrape the bottom of the barrel now; I'd heard that someone convicted of a misdemeanor is now able to take a job as a cop. |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:15:09 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by American Pig on Sun Apr 29 21:10:16 2007. No, but if you're going to sue a tobacco company for damage to your skin you better not apply a topical cream that corrects the problem. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 29 21:16:24 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:05:31 2007. File recovery software does exist, but it probably will not work with a memory stick which is electronic rather than magnetic, and would not leave a trace.On magnetic disks all that happens when you "delete" a file is remove its name from the directory. This frees up the space to be written over. I'd leave the camera on in record mode the entire time I am talking with the officers, even though the lens cap would be on. Else I'd carry a micro recorder of some other sort. ROAR |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 29 21:23:13 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:15:09 2007. next time instead of quoting a rule show them this :http://www.lirrhistory.com/photog.pdf and show them page 4 its letter from their boss Chief Kevin Connely |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Apr 29 21:26:13 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. If you were you, I would also go to the MEDIA....like NY1 and FOX5 NEWS. This crap should never have happened and NYCTA is in the WRONG.......they need to be EXPOSED. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:26:35 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 29 21:23:13 2007. Nope. That only applies to MTA Police on MNCR, LIRR, and SIR. This incident took place in the New York City Subway and involved NYC Police. The rule in effect is 1050.9(c), which can be found HERE. The PDF you are quoting does not apply. |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 29 21:27:38 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 20:59:26 2007. That's right. Cops harass him for doing something perfectly legal, and HE is the one who has something wrong. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:27:53 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Apr 29 21:26:13 2007. NYCTA was not involved. Where did you get that idea? This incident involved the NYC Police. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B train on Sun Apr 29 21:31:32 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:11:14 2007. No, sometimes a suit is for injunctive relief--specifically a restraining order against the miscreant to cease and desist from such actions as the court deems improper. |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:34:21 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:27:53 2007. I read it as he was told by the MTA to stop photographing and they called the police when he didn't. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:34:29 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 29 21:23:13 2007. I showed them this but it didn't do any good. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Apr 29 21:36:04 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Get a scanner. If you hear that the cops have been called, go somewhere else within the next few minutes. No, you shouldn't have to, but some people are stupid.And 1050.9(c) is not the name of a rule. It's merely a section number within Volume 21 of the Official Compilation Codes, Rules and Regulations of the State of New York (NYCRR). If you tell a cop that 1050.9(c) permits photography, he won't have any idea what you're talking about and might assume you made it up. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:36:32 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Jackson Park B train on Sun Apr 29 21:31:32 2007. A court order allowing me to take pics? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:37:47 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Apr 29 21:36:04 2007. Get a scanner. If you hear that the cops have been called, go somewhere else within the next few minutes. No, you shouldn't have to, but some people are stupid.Heh. I wonder... And 1050.9(c) is not the name of a rule. It's merely a section number within Volume 21 of the Official Compilation Codes, Rules and Regulations of the State of New York (NYCRR). If you tell a cop that 1050.9(c) permits photography, he won't have any idea what you're talking about and might assume you made it up. I showed them the paper... |
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Posted by The Queen on Sun Apr 29 21:37:48 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 29 21:16:24 2007. Um, you CAN recover data off any type of flash card provided one has the correct software.Data is not "erased" til it is written over Am I wrong? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:38:24 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by The Queen on Sun Apr 29 21:37:48 2007. Ah, so I can recover the majority of my work. Good. |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Sun Apr 29 21:38:31 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. Damn man thats crazy, I'm sorry to hear that. Most cops are dumb pigs. What they did was clearly wrong. You need to complain to the MTA, the precinct and raise this up with a lawyer and maybe the supervisor of the station. They violated your rights, and you have to take action on this. Since they did take your camera and deleted the photos, that should be considered theft especially when they had no right to. If anything you can prove that they took your camera since they would have fingerprints on it. I'm not too sure about question 3, I'm not too advanced in that field. Please do tell us the progress of this situation, its clearly appalling. |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 29 21:39:47 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:38:24 2007. Me and you need to go rail fanning together. |
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Posted by zdeno on Sun Apr 29 21:41:32 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Transit Guy on Sun Apr 29 21:38:31 2007. How dare you call most cops "dump pigs". I hope the next time you need help they ignore you. |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Sun Apr 29 21:42:12 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:34:29 2007. You didn't take that with the camera involved did you? (Advise)You shouldn't use the camera until this is done since you want to take this matter to court. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Apr 29 21:42:12 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:37:47 2007. Don't start by showing them a paper. Start by explaining politely (but firmly) that they are mistaken. Only if they persist do you pull out the paper, explaining that you printed it directly off the MTA website.Yes, it's easier said than done. Just think of it this way -- you got practice today! Incidentally, never ride the subway without a writing implement (and a piece of paper, but you had one of those). |
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Posted by The Queen on Sun Apr 29 21:43:30 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:38:24 2007. Hey, Check your INBOX.I just sent you an E-Mail, Nilet |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:44:16 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:34:21 2007. Oh, right. Well the MTA can say whatever they want, and they can even call the police. And I'm fine with that. If you think something is suspicious, then call the police. But then the police should be professional enough to determine in about 10 seconds that Nilet is just a railfan and then let him go on his merry way. So the only PROBLEM here was with the NYPD. |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 21:44:35 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by LA Blue Line on Sun Apr 29 21:34:21 2007. I was told to stop taking pics by MTA personel, I showed them the rules permitting photography, they maintained that photography was illegal; one of the people in the tower said that her boss told her photography was prohibitted. The police said that my taking pictures might cause/was causing "public alarm." Now, obviously, if I'm doing something perfectly legitimate and legal, it's not my problem if people get alarmed, but I decided not to argue the point and simply left the station as per the cops' orders. Of course, I didn't get all the way out of the station before they chased after me, handcuffed me, stole the camera, and deleted the photos. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Apr 29 21:45:38 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:44:16 2007. No, I disagree. He was also told to stop taking pictures by NYCT personnel. |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Apr 29 21:45:53 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 29 21:09:38 2007. I would go back...but bring the NEWS MEDIA...like from FOX5 NEWS or NY1....you have to EXPOSE this crap! let then hassel you again...but be "undercover" with the media around you. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:47:01 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Transit Guy on Sun Apr 29 21:42:12 2007. He has multiple memory cards. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 29 21:47:36 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Transit Guy on Sun Apr 29 21:42:12 2007. And he needs to keep taking pics (with other memory cards). Otherwise the police have won! |
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