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| (317553) | |
Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Sat Sep 30 23:11:33 2006 While watching a program on NYCTV channel 25 ("Cool in your Code"? I'm not sure), I happened to catch part of an episode shot around the Prospect Park area. It was talking about the main branch of the Brooklyn Public Library at Grand Army Plaza, and it's now undergoing renovation. A planned auditorium under the library is being built (it was planned as part of the library but never completed). Mention was also made of a planned subway station under the library, whose shell was supposedly built --or-- provisions were made for it.If this is not another urban legend, What line was it supposed to serve? Was it an island platform with two trackways or two platforms? --Mark |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Sun Oct 1 08:27:07 2006, in response to Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Sat Sep 30 23:11:33 2006. Mark, I've been down under the library and indeed there is some kind of large area that would be under the current plaza entrance to the library that certainly looks like a two-track subway station. The way it is situation under the building it would have to have been planned as a spur from the IRT local tracks that run under Eastern Parkway. Unfortunately, the library's archives have no indication of this work, but they DO HAVE a blueprint of a planned underground walkway connection between Eastern Parkway station and the Brooklyn Museum.I will have to go down there again soon, now that work is going on regarding the underground portions of the museum by the main entrance. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Sun Oct 1 12:34:18 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by BMT Guy on Sun Oct 1 08:27:07 2006. As a kid, many times I went to the BPL and got off at the Bklyn Museum stop and the auxiliary exit so to speak is not very far from the back entrance to the library...maybe a 2 minute walk...it would seem that a station there would be too close to Bklyn Museum stop so the question which I suppose was built predating the library's construction (that is the timeline I think)...so I don't see anyway there could ever have beel plans for a stop on the IRT Eastern Parkway unless a walkway was planned from the BM stop or perhaps an extension to allow it to serve all 3 attractions there (BM, BPL and BBG)...But just where is the BBG stop of the Franklin shuttle, down towards Franklin Avenue, right? |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Sun Oct 1 18:59:32 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by MATHA531 on Sun Oct 1 12:34:18 2006. The bizarre thing about the Botanic Garden station of the Franklin Shuttle is that it is not really that close to the actual entrance to the BBG. The station entrance/exit is located in the middle of the block on Eastern Parkway between Franklin and Washington Avenues. It is a two block walk (one of them being long) to get to the entrance of the BBG. To be honest, the Botanic Garden itself is actually closer to the Prospect Park Brighton station than the Franklin Shuttle BBG station. However, the entrance (to pay for admission to the BBG) is via the Washington Avenue entrance. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Eric B on Sun Oct 1 20:56:36 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by MATHA531 on Sun Oct 1 12:34:18 2006. I've hears about some station closer to the library, but I forgot at the moment what exactly it was apart of. Perhaps the Brighton, which basically blows through the whole area, under Flatbush av, between 7th Ave and Prospect Park. Or maybe it was that of the IRT stations was supposed to be closer. There may at one time have been an idea of a branch all the way down Flatbush that would have split off there, but I'm not sure. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Oct 3 13:03:29 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Eric B on Sun Oct 1 20:56:36 2006. If I remember what the TV episode said, I think the library was supposed to be completed long before it actually was ... kind of like the story of the Euclid Ave station on the IND Fulton St (Brooklyn) Line. Provision for a subway station was made, and it might have been built had the library been built "on time" (as part of the IRT Eastern Pkwy Line, I suppose), but since the library wasn't built when it should have been, the subway station was never completed. The Brighton Line is still under Prospect Park at that location, so it definitely wouldn't have been the line to serve the library.My memory is good, but it's short ;) --Mark |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Tue Oct 3 13:36:37 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Oct 3 13:03:29 2006. I have been 0n what appears to be a 2 track,2 car shell station in the subbasement of the library.It is used as a storage room for the library& is well lit& clean.BMT man has color photo`s of it.Lets hope he can put them on subchat. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Oct 3 14:03:19 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by BMT Guy on Sun Oct 1 08:27:07 2006. they DO HAVE a blueprint of a planned underground walkway connection between Eastern Parkway station and the Brooklyn Museum.Keep in mind that the Brooklyn Museum as actually built is only about one-quarter the size of what had been planned. In fact I believe it would have been the largest museum in the world had the original plans been realized. A direct connection to the subway certainly would have made sense, indeed been almost mandatory, under those circumstances. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Eric B on Tue Oct 3 14:55:27 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Oct 3 13:03:29 2006. It's not still under Prospect Park when the park ends at the Plaza, which is where this sounds like it is. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Oct 3 21:11:28 2006, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Oct 3 13:03:29 2006. With a station at Brooklyn Museum and an entrance at Underhill Avenue only one block from the library and another one not too far away at Grand Army Plaza, it seems unlikely to me that another one would have been planned between the two.It seems more likely to me that if another station was planned, it would have been for the Brighton line between Prospect Park Station and Seventh Avenue. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Apr 25 18:57:55 2016, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Tunnel Rat on Tue Oct 3 13:36:37 2006. I know this is old. Do you tunnelrat, or any other people on here know about this? |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Apr 25 19:55:57 2016, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Apr 25 18:57:55 2016. He posted it. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Apr 25 20:46:33 2016, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Tunnel Rat on Tue Oct 3 13:36:37 2006. Tunnel Rat,I was waiting for your post about this! Thanks! Exp. Rider |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by heypaul on Sun May 14 10:24:33 2023, in response to Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Sat Sep 30 23:11:33 2006. Hi Mark. I just caught that same documentary "A Tour Down the Heart of Brooklyn on Flatbush Ave" on WNYC.Here's a clip about the plans for a subway station |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 14 11:54:50 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by heypaul on Sun May 14 10:24:33 2023. I,vw been in it,as well as doug diamond who told me about it & took photos of it. they were published here many years ago. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by jabrams on Sun May 14 12:49:16 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Oct 3 13:03:29 2006. From many, many years ago when I read about it, I thought it was mentioned that it was for the express tracks of the IRT which are lower than the IRT local tracks at G.A.P./Eastern Parkway. Something to do also with the Old Civil Defense Sheltors, as at one time there were many radio antennas on the roof of the library. Maybe a special operations center in the sub basement from the Cold War days. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun May 14 18:48:18 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by BMT Guy on Sun Oct 1 08:27:07 2006. There are built subway tunnels that would serve as a branch line, that would have included a station at the Library.The BOT intended to use those same tunnels to connect the Franklin Ave Shuttle line from the Botanical Gardens station to connect to the Brooklyn Queens Crosstown line at Lafayette Ave. The plans were dropped when NIMBY OPPOSITION and money to fund the project dried up, the same money that would have built the Second Avenue Subway... and other known projects. As of now, the tunnels sit unused, while the UNFINISHED/Incomplete station is used by the Brooklyn Public library system as storage facilities. While there some time ago, I asked a caretaker/custodian about the facility, and he did mention that he has been in there regularly. It has the structure of a subway station, without the common amenities. I had to ask, being a "railfan", could I see it, but was refused, followed by the "important documents are stored there,blah blah blah"... There are many more places in the system, built for expansion purposes... such as the 7th Avenue IND mystery station under the present station. The IND also built bellmouths for an undisclosed route joining the West 4th Street junctions that can be seen on the left side of any train from Houston St curving to join the 8th Ave local tracks. The IND also has a long tunnel structure under Broadway,in the Steinway section of Queens, that was built for the 76th st East River Tunnel. The line would have been built from the 6th Ave junction at 50th st, like the 63rd st subway. The reason why the line wasn't built, was geologically issues at that location that would cause problems, and the desire to have a link closer to the top of the CBD. This could have been solved easily by routing the line down 21st St to a tunnel crossing. 64th st was chosen, but the Rockefeller science research facility in the area objected to the tunnel, so it was moved to 63rd st..where it was finally built. The line under Eastern Parkway and Flatbush avenue will never be used, but the discussion continues over linking the Franklin Ave Shuttle and Crosstown routes for connectivity purposes,via direct routing, instead of the round about way. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun May 14 18:54:01 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Tunnel Rat on Tue Oct 3 13:36:37 2006. You did?They gave me a song and dance about it, told me I had to make a crazy long "reservation", to get down there! |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun May 14 19:42:43 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Edwards! on Sun May 14 18:48:18 2023. We need a FOIL-type provision in the law that covers unfinished subway structures that are otherwise closed to the public. Railfans should be able to demand the right to gain legal access to any existing subway provision so that it can be properly photographed, documented, and discussed here. |
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7th Avenue IND mystery station? Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Sun May 14 21:40:03 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Edwards! on Sun May 14 18:48:18 2023. Any more information regarding an additional 7th Avenue Station? I've never heard of this one.As for the Steinway Street station, the passageway that leads to the staircase closest to Broadway seems to indicate means to connect to another proposed station similar to the addition passageway at Woodhaven Blvd leading to Hoffman Drive. There's a door somewhere in the tunnel between Steinway and 46th, although no bellmouths or any sign of provisions to connect to those additional tunnels. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun May 14 22:51:23 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Edwards! on Sun May 14 18:48:18 2023. I am intimately familiar with the Steinway Street station, and the tunnel towards 46th Street station (Antenna Cable Replacement contract).There were no provisions at Steinway Street/Broadway for a IND second System 6th Avenue subway connection visible in a proposed under river crossing into Queens at 76th Street Manhattan. The proposed IND route from Manhattan would travel on Broadway in LIC Queens north bound to meet the existing QBL local tracks south of the 46th Street station under Broadway. The proposed 76th Street river tunnel trackway bellmouths north of 47-40 Street Station later became Tracks B5/B6 to the 57th Street 6th Avenue terminal in 1968. Later those tracks connected to the present 63rd Street cross-town line, T1/T2 tracks and into LIC Queens. T1/T2 trackways dead end at a concrete wall facing Sunnyside Yard, just past the turn off where the F train rises up to meet the QBL at 36th Street JCT. The Steinway Street station's primary fare control mezzanine area is at the north end of the station with passageways that funnel foot traffic towards Broadway, about four hundred feet away. The Steinway station has a double wide stair case on the west side of the street, and a narrow set of stairs across the street on the east side of Steinway Street. The IND change booth once in the center of the passageway was removed, and a new booth placed along the wall. The mezzanine waiting area was cut in half by the construction of a communication room in about 2004. There is a secondary entrance at 34th Avenue that once had a part time booth towards the south end of the Steinway station that's now only Metrocard access. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 15 03:02:28 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 14 11:54:50 2023. Wouldn’t it have been too close to Grand Army Plz station to make its construction even worthwhile? |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 15 03:14:29 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Edwards! on Sun May 14 18:48:18 2023. Actually, the conflict over the 63 St subway was that the locals in the area wanted the subway relocated down to 61 St closer to the BM/IRT complex at 59/Lex. That would have made more sense since it would have meant that the “new” subway would have been able to have a stop at Queens Plaza for a better transfer to the existing IND. |
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Re: 7th Avenue IND mystery station? Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon May 15 03:53:29 2023, in response to 7th Avenue IND mystery station? Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by R46 5636 on Sun May 14 21:40:03 2023. The tunnel is pretty long...and I heard it was once used as a Police department firing range.the bellmouths are like the Manhattan bound tunnel section of the Queens Bypass line. Hidden behind a wall. The hidden area is pretty large. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon May 15 03:58:23 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Handbrake on Sun May 14 22:51:23 2023. I know there aren't any visible provisions.The tunnel structure is hidden behind, like the Manhattan bound tunnel from the Queens Bypass line. It's there, but not connected to the main tunnels. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 15 09:11:59 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by Edwards! on Mon May 15 03:58:23 2023. proof? |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 15 09:16:18 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by randyo on Mon May 15 03:02:28 2023. I can`t answer that.maybe a 2 car shuttle service? |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon May 15 12:36:35 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by randyo on Mon May 15 03:02:28 2023. The question is when was that station originally proposed? Because the library building started construction in the 1910s and was only partly finished before being redesigned and completed in 1941.Given the dual contracts were signed around the same time as the original building was built, one could assume a station at the library was meant to be built in place of the Grand Army Plaza and Brooklyn Museum stations we got in reality. |
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Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 16 09:17:12 2023, in response to Re: Subway Station Under Brooklyn Public Library?, posted by BMT Guy on Sun Oct 1 18:59:32 2006. BBG should be renamed Eastern Parkway - Botanical Garden. |
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