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| Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash (1338083) | |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 7 17:00:33 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 16:57:23 2015. We'll never know what she was thinking.Soon we'll hear about her cellphone record if any and her lifelong driving transcript. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 7 19:16:02 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 7 15:00:07 2015. Heh. Might as well wrap it if it's green over green. :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 7 19:21:37 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 7 15:10:45 2015. Trains run on any track in any direction at any time. Just because the gates came down for a northbound doesn't mean that a southbound wasn't also approaching. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Feb 7 20:02:01 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 7 14:33:59 2015. Or tunnels under mountains. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 7 20:46:37 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 14:21:02 2015. Then if you don't know, why are you proposing new laws based on it? |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 7 21:07:00 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 7 19:21:37 2015. I know that they have bi-directional signaling (rule 262?). Anyone on here probably does. Average people might not, and think trains always run right-hand like cars (rule 261?), since that's what they do like 95% of the time. But coming to think of it, considering how stupid this woman was, I doubt her thought process got that far, or that she would have been able to see the train and what track it was running on, and all that still doesn't explain why she pulled forward, which still makes no sense. |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 7 21:11:50 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 14:32:28 2015. F= mu*NIf your rail and wheels are the same, so you have the same mu, a heavier rail car is going to mean a bigger N, and thus a bigger F, linearly proportional to the addition kinetic energy the car has via KE= .5*m*v^2 , so the weight of the vehicle doesn't matter. Of course with higher speeds, KE shoots up due to the v^2 term. I'm not arguing that trains should have insane braking capabilities, or considering what else might get screwed up by a train braking that quickly, but physics are physics, and if an LRV can do it, an MN MU could be designed to do it. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 21:35:16 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 7 20:46:37 2015. I am not. But if you enabled a drunk driver with a suspended license to operate your car then it would seem to me that you would be an accessory to his crime, and could be charges as such.If this is incorrect, then please elucidate. ROAR |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 7 21:53:58 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 21:35:16 2015. But knowing someone is drunk and loaning them your car keys is one thing. Quite different from loaning your car keys to someone and then discovering they did one reckless thing in an otherwise reasonably cautious life.I know I've tried to live a responsible life, but I've incautiously done a few things in my 45 years of adulthood that I got away with but ought not to have done (not including standing on a railroad track). Does that mean I should never be allowed to rent a car? |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sat Feb 7 22:38:53 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 6 13:33:04 2015. bump |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sat Feb 7 22:44:02 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 7 08:51:32 2015. wrong |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sat Feb 7 22:45:25 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 7 21:53:58 2015. OMG YOU'RE 63 Y.O.! |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sat Feb 7 22:51:36 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 13:00:37 2015. That photo is photoshopped :) |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by steamdriven on Sat Feb 7 23:07:03 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 7 16:54:34 2015. That's bosh. I can remember being on PCC's when the e-brake buzzer sounded and we slid into cars crossing the tracks. Nobody on the train went flying forward. Maybe there were not enough lawyers in those days.3 ingredients needed to provide better braking. Pick a better e-brake rate, 3.2mph/sec is pathetic. Distinctive buzzer sounds, then e-brake rate ramps up (within 1/2 second) Law changed to disallow or severely cap damages for e-brake application injuries. Passengers are still fully covered for fire, smoke, train-to-train impact etc, but "poor me I went flying because I wasn't holding a pole" gets a token amount or zero. It's possible that a standing 300# individual with their hands busy feeding their pie inlet will act as a low-speed missile, but how many such people are there standing in the commuter rail aisles? |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sat Feb 7 23:09:49 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 7 15:10:32 2015. So? |
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Posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 8 00:07:53 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by jabrams on Sat Feb 7 13:41:02 2015. How many seconds before the gates come down, after the lights start flashing? We know it is 39 seconds for the train to arrive. |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 00:52:04 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 7 15:10:32 2015. LOL!!!!! He's talking about MPH per second and you're talking about meters per second squared!!!! LOL!!!! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 8 01:33:57 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Feb 7 20:02:01 2015. That too! Shinkansen's structure design would work out very well for elevateds in the city as well, especially with the sound-killing sides that seemed to be a major complaint with the old els. I remember how quiet they were when they wooshed by in Nihon. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 8 01:46:50 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by steamdriven on Sat Feb 7 23:07:03 2015. That buzzer you remember was the EBV valve opening. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 8 03:08:24 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by steamdriven on Sat Feb 7 23:07:03 2015. Distinctive buzzer soundsWhy bother with just a buzzer? An automated verbal warning can be used as well. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 8 03:12:39 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 12:35:16 2015. If the braking rate was increased, the train may still hit the vehicle, but it might do it at a lower speed. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:08:30 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 00:52:04 2015. It is stil not doable on a 67 ton vehicle, gave no consideration to the occupants inside the train, and would not have made much difference in 10 seconds anyway. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:11:45 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by steamdriven on Sat Feb 7 23:07:03 2015. Any how many are sitting are about to get their face smashed on the seat ahead of them ? PCC's don't go 60MPH.This is a extremely stupid discussion to show the train was at fault, and gave no thought to slip/sliding. |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:25:20 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:08:30 2015. wrong |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:31:43 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 7 21:07:00 2015. I woke up during the night and thought of this:She expected either the traffic light to change up ahead (which it could not do with gates down), OR she thought she could slither by with a right turn on red and such traffic ahead of her would simply move just in time. I'll make this sexist comment too: most woman should not drive SUV's as they lack spacial judgement. They can't parallel park and they can't back into a slot, and they have great difficulty pulling out of a spot, not cutting their wheel sharp enough when they are supposed to. See it in suburban parking lots every day. That said, she would not put the vehicle in reverse to get off the crossing as she determined that was not enough room, or could not manuever it. |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:32:06 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:11:45 2015. LRV Trolleys DO go 60 MPH. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:32:44 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:25:20 2015. A 67 ton RR car is not a trolley car. Don't expect it to perform like one. |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:33:46 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:31:43 2015. most woman should not drive SUV's as they lack spacial judgement.Now I KNOW you're full of shit. |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:34:13 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:32:44 2015. You're wrong. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Feb 8 10:14:25 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Jace on Fri Feb 6 23:26:18 2015. The design of infrastructure needs to be based on logic, not "feelings". If the probability of such an event as this is really so low that not more than one such event per century should be anticipated, then no major changes should be made to prevent such occurrences. Of course, we don't know an exact probability. Bill's idea of deflector ramps sounds like it would work on both underrunning and overrunning third rail, and could be installed inexpensively, so it is probably worth doing. But the idea that the "we have to do something" mentality is right should be rejected. |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Feb 8 10:59:58 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:34:13 2015. As usual Terrapin Station is always wrong! It never ends! Joe V was totally right!!! You get another "I am stupid all the time award! |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Feb 8 11:02:12 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:33:46 2015. You now have another stupid award!!! You need to be out of here for 3 months!!!! |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Feb 8 11:11:23 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:32:06 2015. Streetcars are not capable of 60 MPH. 25 to 35 MPH are the speed. 2 or 3 cars in a train together can do 60 MPH!!! |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 8 11:26:59 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 21:35:16 2015. NY Vehicle and Traffic Law511-a. Facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle. 1. A person is guilty of the offense of facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the third degree when such person consents to the operation upon a public highway of a motor vehicle registered in such person's name knowing or having reason to know that the operator of such vehicle is a person whose license or privilege of operating such motor vehicle in this state or privilege of obtaining a license issued to operate such motor vehicle by the commissioner is suspended, revoked or otherwise withdrawn by the commissioner and the vehicle is operated upon a public highway by such person. 2. Facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the third degree is a traffic infraction. When a person is convicted thereof the sentence of the court must be: (i) a fine of not less than two hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or (ii) a term of imprisonment of not more than fifteen days, or (iii) both. 3. A person is guilty of facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the second degree when such person: (a) commits the offense of facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the third degree as defined in subdivision one of this section after having been convicted of such offense within the preceding eighteen months; or (b) consents to the operation upon a public highway of a motor vehicle registered in such person's name knowing or having reason to know that the operator of such vehicle is a person who has in effect three or more suspensions, imposed on at least three separate dates, for failure to answer, appear or pay a fine, pursuant to subdivision three of section two hundred twenty-six or subdivision four-a of section five hundred ten of this chapter; or (c) commits the crime of facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the third degree after having been convicted of such an offense two or more times within the preceding five years. For purposes of this subdivision, "motor vehicle" shall mean any vehicle for hire, including a taxicab, livery, as defined in section one hundred twenty-one-e of this chapter, coach, limousine, van or wheelchair accessible van, tow truck, bus or commercial motor vehicle as defined section five hundred nine-a of this chapter. Facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the second degree is a misdemeanor. When a person is convicted of this crime pursuant to paragraphs (a) or (b) of this subdivision, the sentence of the court must be: (i) a fine of not less than five hundred dollars, nor more than seven hundred fifty dollars; or (ii) a term of imprisonment not to exceed sixty days; or (iii) both a fine and imprisonment; or (iv) where appropriate, a sentence of probation; or (v) a term of imprisonment as a condition of a sentence of probation as provided in the penal law. When a person is convicted of this crime pursuant to paragraph (c) of this subdivision, the sentence of the court must be: (i) a fine of not less than five hundred, nor more than one thousand dollars; or (ii) a term of imprisonment not to exceed one hundred eighty days; or (iii) both a fine and imprisonment; or (iv) where appropriate, a sentence of probation; or (v) a term of imprisonment as a condition of probation as provided in the penal law. 4. A person is guilty of facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the first degree when such person consents to the operation upon a public highway of a motor vehicle registered in such person's name knowing or having reason to know that the operator of such vehicle is a person who has in effect ten or more suspensions, imposed on at least ten separate dates, for failure to answer, appear or pay a fine, pursuant to subdivision three of section two hundred twenty-six or subdivision four-a of section five hundred ten of this chapter. For purposes of this subdivision, "motor vehicle" shall mean any vehicle for hire, including a taxicab, livery, as defined in section one hundred twenty-one-e of this chapter, coach, limousine, van or wheelchair accessible van, tow truck, bus or commercial motor vehicle as defined in section five hundred nine-a of this chapter. Facilitating aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle in the first degree is a class E felony. When a person is convicted of this crime, the sentence of the court must be: (i) a fine in an amount not less than one thousand dollars nor more than five thousand dollars; and (ii) a term of imprisonment as provided in the penal law; or (iii) where appropriate, a sentence of probation; or (iv) a term of imprisonment as a condition of a sentence of probation as provided in the penal law. 5. Upon a conviction of a violation of subdivision three or four of this section the commissioner shall revoke the registration of the motor vehicle for which the defendant's consent is given and shall only be restored pursuant to the provisions of subdivision five of section five hundred ten of this article. If such defendant is a corporation, partnership, association or other group, none of its officers, principals, directors or stockholders owning more than ten percent of the outstanding stock of the corporation shall be eligible to register the motor vehicle. |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 8 11:31:11 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:31:43 2015. Are you for real with that stupid comment? Yeah, it is a stupid comment.Please...it's not just "most women" who can't drive SUVs. It's most PEOPLE who can't drive them or park them properly. There are plenty of men behind the wheels of SUVs who get extreme aggressive when they drive them. They speed, they cut off other drivers and take up two (or more) spaces when they park their boats-on-wheels. And they really start to lose it when other drivers aren't driving as aggressively as they are. Come see how people drive here in Forest Hills and Rego Park. You'll see real fast that it ain't just the women who can't drive or park those gas-guzzling, bloated wagons. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 8 11:37:47 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Feb 8 11:02:12 2015. So then you agree with Joe V's incredibly ignorant, sexist comment about "women lacking spatial judgment"? If so, I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.Of course you know you'd be Wrong Again if you do... |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 8 11:40:44 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 7 10:41:10 2015. What if the person driving the vehicle is not the owner? What if the person driving the vehicle stole it? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 11:45:12 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:34:13 2015. You are so damned stupid.Do you expect a Ford Expedition to perform like a subcompact ? Since you have nothing to say but "bump", "no', and wrong", why don't you just get lost. |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 11:47:13 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sun Feb 8 09:32:06 2015. And when has one stopped at 3MPHPS from 60 with a crowd aboard ?If you can't tell an LRV from an heavy commuter rail MU, you are stupider than I thought. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 11:49:34 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 8 11:31:11 2015. I'll admit it was sexist and not scientific.Got any better explanation for what this gal did ? |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sun Feb 8 11:57:11 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 6 20:34:37 2015. Yea well now we have total idiot proof cars ones that can parallel park for you and let you see what's behind them with little cameras and accident avoidance systems what wusses we've become. Karl |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 12:09:00 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Sat Feb 7 22:51:36 2015. 'Taint Neither. (dork)ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 12:14:51 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 8 00:07:53 2015. Lights flash9 seconds later the gates come down. 30 seconds later your SUV is mush. ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 12:15:54 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 8 03:12:39 2015. 48 mph or 38 mph the results are the same. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 12:18:53 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 12:15:54 2015. Get rid of the damned crossing and stop blaming the train, or you are playing into that stupid Senator's hand. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 12:22:27 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:31:43 2015. It is a husband and wife team that maintain everyting in the City of Richardton. They are both well over 60. You should see her in the four wheel articulated Caterpillar monster with huge plow come down the street.When they say "No Parking During Snow Emergency" they really *DO* mean it. One guy found his small car under a pile of snow in the field where she dumps the snow. ROAR |
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Posted by steamdriven on Sun Feb 8 12:26:57 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:11:45 2015. No one on those occasions got their "face smashed in". That was before phones and even ipods, so people were less oblivious.PCCs had various top speeds, I believe Chicago had them geared for over 60mph. In this crashe train is in no way at fault, and a higher braking rate would not have prevented it. More e-brake does have two advantages that I can think of: avoiding or decreasing the severity of rare train-to-train crashes, and the same for a crash with load of steel, cement or the like stuck on a grade crossing. In the latter case the engineer can see the truck from 1000 feet away, but can do very little about it. Road-going cars stop at rates in excess of 24mph/sec; some approach 30 though none have quite reached it. Obviously, if a train could stop at those rates it would not be advisable; in a car that rate has any junk not tied down flying and the passengers screaming. Train standees would go over like bowling pins. But it's also not a large acceleration; it's just over 1g, about what you experience lying on your stomach. |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 12:30:22 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 8 11:26:59 2015. That looks like an accessory to the crime if you ask me. But I am only a LION so what would I know.LION does know that it is time to get more aggressive with such rules. We had a lady in town (since deceased) who did not have driving privileges, but still owned a car. If she wanted to go somewhere, he had to hire someone in town to drive her car for her. And she did it too. ROAR |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 8 12:56:05 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by steamdriven on Sun Feb 8 12:26:57 2015. 24 mph/sec is a disastrous acceleration unless you are very thoroughly restrained. |
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Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 8 13:29:25 2015, in response to Re: How Railroad Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 8 11:31:11 2015. Not much more bloated than the cars of yesterdayI learned to drive in my Dad's 1966 Dodge Polara station wagon ________Polara______Mercedes GL W/B_____121________121 Length__217________ 201 Width_____80_________84 Height____62_________73 Weight__4265______5467 MPG______~10_____17city/21Hiway |
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