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| Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations (1294724) | |
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Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 3 17:40:57 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 3 16:04:03 2014. No, that Google shot is pretty accurate, unless they tore down more of the structure since 2004. Essentially, the section they wanted torn down included about half of the Manhattan-bound platform, plus they removed unnecessary canopies. Otherwise, I believe the stairway to the platform from the mezzanine still exists. I thought more of the steel north of the station was covered with catwalk paneling, but maybe I was mistaken.I agree, I thought it would have been relatively simple to put a connecting station on the Fulton El for Broadway Junction. Perhaps they thought it was too close and redundant? For people coming from lower Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn, they could have taken Lex or Myrtle trains. |
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Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 17:56:04 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 3 17:08:52 2014. In that case, the station would probably have been considered redundant had the original plan for connecting the Brooklyn Bridge to the Centre St loop been built in full. |
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| (1294934) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 17:57:57 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 05:31:42 2014. The Sneideker Ave portion is totally gone. The Van Sinderen segment was 4 tracks and the platform slab at Atlantic (middle one) and steelwork for the old Fulton el is still intact. |
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| (1294939) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jun 3 18:12:09 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 17:57:57 2014. Is enough of it left to rebuild tracks allowing trains to short-turn there? Others on here have posted how the K did that in the 1973-76 period... |
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| (1294942) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jun 3 18:18:28 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 3 02:11:46 2014. A few weeks ago, somebody posted an article on here that the structure was demolished starting in 1958- I seem to remember reading (this was 10 years before I was born) that they started near 80th St.But I don't know how fast they worked, so if it was a small crew working slow, much of it could have lasted into the summer or even into he next year, I suppose. |
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| (1294943) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 18:19:13 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jun 3 18:12:09 2014. Yes. |
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Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 3 20:54:12 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 01:25:52 2014. Nilet, except for the old Manhattan Junction loop, there never was a stop at Broadway Junction for the Fulton Street el. Rockaway Ave/Fulton was kept as a temporary terminal in 1940, so transfers could be made to Jamaica Ave car line, Fulton St car line, as well as to the IND subway station. Sorry, I thought you knew this! |
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| (1294966) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 3 20:54:18 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 17:57:57 2014. They did remove the part where 3 tracks made the curve to Pitkin. Now they still follow the Canarsie, but end at the start of the curve. |
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| (1294968) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 3 21:10:36 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 15:13:01 2014. Demolition began on the remaining old Fulton el on Jan 10th, 1958. They started at 75th Street and supposedly worked their way westbound, from there. For some reason, work stopped around Van Siclen Ave, because the Pitkin el was still standing with its Pennsylvania Ave intact, in the late fall of 1959. I distinctly recall that time because my great-uncle had recently taken ownership of his new 1960 Chevy Impala. He took me for a ride and we drove south on Pennsylvania Ave from Jamaica Ave. |
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| (1294972) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Tue Jun 3 21:35:48 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 3 01:56:45 2014. I remember that the RR Clerk would tuck the small transfers in the booth cage and passengers would take one before going through the turnstile. Am I correct? |
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| (1295004) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 00:49:27 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 3 20:54:12 2014. I'm not immediately familiar with all the details of systems torn down decades before I was born, sorry. Pirmann says Broadway Junction had platforms for the Fulton el; he doesn't specify when. |
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| (1295044) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 09:52:38 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 3 20:54:18 2014. But it's still clearly visible. Most of what was removed was the portion which flew over the S curve the L used to take. |
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| (1295048) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:03:02 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 00:49:27 2014. Here's the relevant quote from the specific page:The large station complex at Broadway Junction serves trains on the BMT Nassau Street-Jamaica Line (J, Z), and the BMT Canarsie Line (L). In the past there were also tracks and platforms serving The Fulton Street Elevated (Brooklyn). It is in fact the largest elevated complex in the system, with many artifacts remaining of its former glory, including ironwork for the old Fulton Street Elevated trackways which can be seen underneath and to the south of the current platforms. My guess is he is referring to the former Manhattan Junction alignment which did have Fulton St trains serving the station. This was done away with in the early 1900's. In the dual contracts era, the Fulton St line never stopped at Eastern Parkway/Broadway Junction. It turned southwest onto Fulton St and headed to Rockaway Ave. I also think people are getting confused because the portion east of Atlantic Ave (on Pitkin and Liberty Aves) has also always been called the "Fulton St el", even past 1940 when the line really didn't run on Fulton St. In that case, trains from the "Fulton St el" did serve Eastern Parkway/Broadway Junction, but only the outer section which survived to 1956. I always found it odd that the 14th St rush hour service to Lefferts Blvd was referred to as "14th St/Fulton" when "14th St/Pitkin" would have been more accurate. |
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| (1295055) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jun 4 10:33:53 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jun 3 18:18:28 2014. during the week the old fulton st/lefferts blvd trains used rockaway ave as its terminal.weekends it used b`way junction/eny as its terminal.I know this for a fact because I rode `em. |
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| (1295056) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:37:39 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 2 22:17:00 2014. Because the city was trying to make the el as inconvenient as possible, so as to keep ridership down. |
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| (1295057) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:37:39 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 2 22:17:00 2014. Because the city was trying to make the el as inconvenient as possible, so as to keep ridership down. |
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| (1295058) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:37:39 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 2 22:17:00 2014. Because the city was trying to make the el as inconvenient as possible, so as to keep ridership down. |
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| (1295059) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:38:54 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 3 21:10:36 2014. That happens when demolition is a bit trickier. The segment of the Jamaica Ave el which crossed over the LIRR Main Line stood for a good 6 months longer than the rest of the structure did, well into 1991. |
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| (1295061) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:41:27 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by zac on Tue Jun 3 05:40:33 2014. This was done to suppress the numbers of people using the paper transfer, to make it easier to justify abandoning the el. There is no other operational reason to restrict the transfer to only people boarding from Sumner Ave south. |
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| (1295169) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 4 22:49:07 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Tue Jun 3 21:35:48 2014. That would be about right, but as I recall, the passengers would have left the exit gates before going to the RR clerk's booth to get their transfers. |
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| (1295173) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Jun 4 23:06:41 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by randyo on Wed Jun 4 22:49:07 2014. That would only be if the passenger forgot to get the ticket when they entered the starting station. But from Sumner to Navy when the passenger bought their tokens they would simply take the small transfer ticket before going through the turnstile. |
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| (1295237) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 5 15:22:56 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Jun 4 23:06:41 2014. I was actually only referring to Bridge/Jay during the hours when fares were collected on board trains. |
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| (1295244) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jun 5 16:10:04 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 3 20:54:18 2014. Shortly before demolition began on the excess structure, I went out there and took maybe two rolls of slide film (at least 72 shots) of as much as the entire area I could understand was going to be razed.I did get pictures of the 3 track turnout onto Pitkin from the train and from the street on Pitkin. By the way - I found out about the scheduled demolition right here - on either subchat or subtalk...... this board (or the former board) really helps all of us, keep up with RR / rapid transit developments |
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| (1295245) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jun 5 16:14:13 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 3 16:09:56 2014. Station at Pitkin / Sneideker is discussed IIRC in David Rogoff's multi part article (maybe only 2 parts) on abandoned BMT Eastern Division Traackage (etc.) in an old NYD bulletin. |
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| (1295276) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 5 20:45:53 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Express Rider on Thu Jun 5 16:10:04 2014. Do you know when they took down Pennsylvania/Pitkin? I'm pretty sure it was still up in the fall of 1959. |
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| (1295286) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Thu Jun 5 22:14:13 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 5 15:22:56 2014. That's right. I forgot about the midnights. |
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| (1295329) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jun 6 07:10:53 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Express Rider on Thu Jun 5 16:10:04 2014. Pics? |
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| (1295372) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Jun 6 12:14:52 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:03:02 2014. Related to the points that you have raised on the NYCSubway.Org website on the page listing "Historical Maps" all of the BMT maps prior the Broadway Junction and Atlantic Avenue stations with the Fulton Street line headed directly for Atlantic Avenue.It is only the 1910 Map that shows the Manhattan Junction with what seems to be two stations both called Manhattan Junction. Interesting. Mike |
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| (1295447) | |
Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jun 6 21:08:05 2014, in response to Re: Flatbush and Fulton stations, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 4 10:03:02 2014. I always found it strange that the Multis had a #13 route designation for 14th St-Fulton service, yet never ran on Fulton St, itself (except for their initial publicity run to Park Row). |
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