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| Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question (1131392) | |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jan 11 11:53:47 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. If I remember correctly, they were R-27/30 on that line, as late as 1988 or 1989.wayne |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 12:33:56 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. Prior to the rebuild in 1998, the line used 4 car trains of R32's, with only 2 cars open. R68's were banned from the (old) line in the late 80's after an incident at the old Franklin Ave terminal. |
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| (1131456) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 11 12:59:17 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 12:33:56 2012. FALSE. R-68s had been used on the line from about 1995 when OPTO was implemented. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:04:04 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 11 12:59:17 2012. Right, but the R68's were banished from the line for a time because of an incident at Franklin. I remember that vividly. The shitty R27's returned to the line for a while. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:07:20 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:04:04 2012. What was the incident? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:10:24 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. If you went back to the 1880s, you could fill a book with all the kinds of equipment that have run on the Brighton-Franklin. I wold contend that more different kinds of equipment have run on that right-of-way than any other in the city, including LIRR trains, SIRT cars and Lo-Vs. |
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| (1131466) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:11:06 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:10:24 2012. And I mean in revenue service, not moves or fantrips. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:31:13 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:07:20 2012. IIRC, a bumper block collision at Franklin Ave. The hippos were immediately banished from the line. Either 1987 or 1988. |
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| (1131474) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 13:33:22 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 12:33:56 2012. Prior to the rebuild in 1998, the line used 4 car trains of R32's, with only 2 cars open. R68's were banned from the (old) line in the late 80's after an incident at the old Franklin Ave terminal.I don't think that's accurate, as I took this photo there in 1991, crude photo yes, but it still shows the train type..... 
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| (1131475) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:35:49 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:10:24 2012. Stuff I rode on that line between 1985 and 1989R16 (M) R27/30 (M/Q) R32 (everything) R38 (Q, 9/1989 Times Sq. watermain break reroutes) R40 (everything) R42 (everything) R46 (N and F reroutes) R68/A (everything) R44 and R10's are the only cars I never rode on the Brighton line. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:38:35 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 13:33:22 2012. There was an incident in the 1980's that led to the R68's being banished for a time. This I know from personal experience, and I am looking for documentation. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 13:53:28 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:38:35 2012. I believe you...but it couldn't have lasted long, as I took that photo in 1990 or 1991, the first time I rode the line. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:54:57 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:10:24 2012. I doubt that LIRR rolling stock ran on that portion of the line even back in the days when the MP-41s were the main LIRR rolling stock. I could be mistaken but even when the LIRR paralleled the Brighton Line I don't believe it used the Fkln ROW to get to it. As for the rolling stock that definitely did run there it includes BUs, Steels, D types, the Green Hornet, the Budd Zephyr, standard Multis (for a brief period circa 1956 as reported by an ERA member who is still around), SORT cars, and modified Lo-Vs, R-11s, R-27/30s, R-32s and R-68s. Although it is unsubstantiated, I had heard that in the early 1960s some Qs even ended up there. Also during GOs when there was no through Brighton service into Dekalb, 8 car trains of R-42s ran through from Stillwell to Franklin although form What I understand although trains as long as 8 steels could clear the switch at Dean St not all the cars would be able to properly berth at at the Fkln Av platform. |
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| (1131486) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Jan 11 13:56:43 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. I believe that was the R-32s if I am not mistaken, and this was before the Franklin Avenue Shuttle was rebuilt in the 90s. The R-68s came after, and have been there in 2-car dedicated consists ever since. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Jan 11 13:57:42 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jan 11 11:53:47 2012. Didn't the R-32s do some time there as well before the R-68s took over full time? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:57:59 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 13:53:28 2012. I believe it also had to do with the slight downgrade approaching the bumping block at Fkln left over from the days when it was a through track branching off the Fulton El. From what I was told, MOW went in there and regraded that portion of the track to eliminate the slight downgrade and that's when the R-68s were allowed back on the line. |
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| (1131493) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jan 11 14:03:21 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:31:13 2012. Well, obviously, something changed between then and OPTO implementation that brought the 68s back.Here's an interesting photo. R68s on the Franklin at the pre-renovation Park Place station with what's presumably the current Park Place station house being constructed. Photo is listed as being taken in 1998. 
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 11 14:12:30 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jan 11 14:03:21 2012. Damn the Franklin Avenue line used to look brutal huh? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 11 14:14:37 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 12:33:56 2012. That's odd, why were the other two cars closed? The only time I ever recall seeing something like that was when I rode an (R) train that had the lights in the front car turned off and doors deactivated for some reason although the rest of the train was open. |
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| (1131513) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 14:30:04 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:57:59 2012. Sounds reasonable. Here's the other photo I took that day, from the opposite direction:
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| (1131514) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 14:32:02 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 11 14:12:30 2012. Here's what it looked like the first time I road it around 1990 or 1991:
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 14:37:48 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 11 14:14:37 2012. Service didn't really require all the cars to be opened, but the TA didn't want to run a single married pair unit in passenger service so it ran 4 car trains with the end cars closed and the middle cars open. Unlike the older married pairs which has only one compressor and one MG set per 2 cars, the Fkln Shtl R 68s are single cars containing all components in both cars so they can be run as 2 car trains. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 14:41:19 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 11 14:12:30 2012. Words can't describe how bad it was.  Franklin literally scared me, since it required you to go on the street to transfer. In the mid 1980's, that area was as dangerous as it got in NYC: 
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| (1131525) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jan 11 14:55:30 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 14:41:19 2012. I admit it. The first time I went through that transfer, I felt a bit disoriented. |
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| (1131526) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 15:00:09 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 11 14:12:30 2012. The MTA let it deteriorate so badly in order to provide an excuse for abandoning it completely. Fortunately, the neighborhood was full of what might be described as "reverse NIMBYs" or "PIIMBYs'" (Put It In My Back Yard") who were able to generate enough political clout to force the rebuilding. Unfortunately, the MTA did not do enough and relegated the line to perpetual shuttle use. As I have mentioned in several posts on this topic, I would have kept it double track all the way to Franklin and may or may not have rebuilt Franklin as a 2 track terminal and would also have rebuilt all the platforms to hold full 600 ft trains so that in the event of a blockage along the mainline due to an emergency or a GO, regular service could be operated into Franklin to allow passengers access to the Fulton St line. |
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| (1131527) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jan 11 15:02:18 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Jan 11 13:57:42 2012. Yes, the R32 was there as well intermittently. Perhaps a better answer to this would be that the R32s and R27/30s shared duties on the line before the R68 took over.wayne |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 15:06:08 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jan 11 14:55:30 2012. I did it first in 1986. Moved really fast. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 15:07:32 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:57:59 2012. Thank you. I generally avoided the FS and only made note of what ran there if I saw a consist sitting on the track at Prospect Park while going through the station on the D or Q. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 15:20:50 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:54:57 2012. In re LIRR, cast your mind back further. LIRR trains ran on the Brighton Line from 1878 until the LIRR acquired the Manhattan Beach Line, about 1882.I never saw more than 6-car steels or three-unit triplexes on Franklin. The platforms were only made for 6-car trains. except Prospect Park, of course. If anything longer ran, it must have been an emergency diversion. I would also count BUs as multiple types. Many types were much different than difference between R27s and R32s for instance. AND there were Brighton Line steam coaches. Also trolleys, but AFAIK, only from Prospect Park south. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 15:27:57 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. I do remember 3 car Franklin Shuttles using 2 R-32s and 1 R-34, |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 15:32:12 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 15:27:57 2012. R34 has a meaning in other areas of the internet that has nothing to do with rolling stock. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jan 11 15:35:59 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 15:32:12 2012. a/c freeon. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 15:39:52 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 15:27:57 2012. I recall those too. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 15:54:57 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 15:32:12 2012. I'm sure that R34 has many meanings including an identification for a particular drug but in the context of this discussion, I was referring to the R-34 subway car. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 16:21:25 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 15:54:57 2012. Wait until the TA trademarks subway car contract numbers, as they have done with some line letters. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Wed Jan 11 16:43:21 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. All thats missing is the R-1/9's. Don't ever recall ever seeing them there |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by MGL on Wed Jan 11 17:04:17 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 16:21:25 2012. You generally can not TM numbers, I believe Intel discovered this to there chagrin.Michael |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 17:12:25 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 15:54:57 2012. Yeah, but it has a particular meaning that most would find....amusing. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Wed Jan 11 17:17:36 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 17:12:25 2012. Whoever would to that in the context of the NYCS would be beyond...odd. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 11 17:26:26 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 13:10:24 2012. Interesting. I think the OP wasn't interested in looking quite that far back. :) I know I used to see the R-11s there, and tend to associate them with that line. When did they stop running? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Jan 11 17:27:58 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 14:32:02 2012. Can one say = 'showing your age'? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jan 11 17:31:14 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 14:41:19 2012. When I took that first picture, I had to be real real careful where I was walking so I wouldn't fall through the platform.--Mark |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 11 17:33:10 2012, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 11 09:18:51 2012. When was the last time a non-R68 did the shuttle, and what was the car model used? Actually, if anyone has time, a very brief history of the rolling stock on this shuttle since the late 80s or so would certainly quell my curiosity!New Flyer: I don't know if this will be of any help to you but its a list of cars that I have ridden on the shuttle that I have records of. We can see from the list below that the R-68s made an appearance during the early nineties. 2/1/71 - 1) R-11 8012 - 8014 - 8013 2) R -11 8018, R-32 3856 - 3857 3) R -11 8016 - 8019 - 8017 1/14/84 R-27 8053, R-30 8260 1/20/85 R-27 8056, 8247 2/23/86 R-30A 8369 9/13/86 R-27 8233, R-30 8486, 8536 3/1/87 R-27 8113, 8187, 8236, R-30A 8408 1/23/88 R-27 8053 7/15/89 R-32A 3638-9, R -32 3940-1 7/16/90 R-68 2772, 2808 7/30/92 R-68 2810, 2846 7/11/94 R-32A 3562 - 3 R-32 3656-7, 3920-1 1/14/95 R-32A 3382, R-32 3831, 3844-5 1/24/97 R-68 2795 10/26/99 R-68 2917, 2921 R-68 2922, 2923 |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jan 11 18:22:44 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 17:12:25 2012. I'm waiting for the answer. Don't get all whineberg on me. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 18:23:33 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:54:57 2012. TYPO! That should be SIRT. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 18:25:50 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 15:20:50 2012. If you count the BUs as multiple types then the steels could also be counted as multiple types since there were various cosmetic differences between the various series of those cars as well. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Wed Jan 11 18:30:50 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jan 11 15:02:18 2012. R38 units were used there too. I've seen pics of R40M and R42 units on the line on nycsubway.org (sorry, dates unknown). |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 11 18:30:53 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 13:54:57 2012. Although it is unsubstantiated, I had heard that in the early 1960s some Qs even ended up there.There is documentation to support this. Mr Bernard Linder wrote an article titled "History of BMT Subway and El Services 1924 - 1966 which appeared in several issues of "The Bulletin" in 1966. In the October Issue he states that "Q" Types were assigned to the Franklin Avenue Shuttle on October 10, 1957 but that they lasted less than a day. I don't know how many trainsets were used but one of them was 1602 ABC. This was about six months prior to the "Q"s being assigned to the Myrtle Avenue El. (4/1/58) A later reference is in the January 1981 issue of "The Bulletin" which references the infamous October 1980 scraplist which included 1602 ABC and notes that this was one of the "Q" Types that operated on the Franklin Avenue Shuttle in 1957. (1602 B and C were scrapped but 1602 A was sent to Kingston.) Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 18:48:30 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 18:25:50 2012. Perhaps you could count B-types as more than one equipment type (I wouldn't) but many of the BUs were dramatically different from each other, more so than, say, the R16, R27s, R32s and R38s. The only things that were pretty much the same across BUs were the width and length dimensions, and the fact that they used end gates. The BUs did go through a massive standardization program from about 1904-1906, but they were still notably different. Even among the TD Co. BUs, would your consider the 1000s, 1200-1400s and 1300s the same car type? |
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