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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 10:15:54 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 09:29:10 2011. It's usually more than half the cars that tailgate. Also in many NFL communities, people that don't even have tickets to the game come the parking lots to tailgate. That's especially true in places with big lots like Green Bay, Buffalo (Orchard Park), etc. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 10:49:54 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 09:29:10 2011. Your first point is incorrect. IME at giants sta and NMS, roughly betw 40 and 65% of cars arrive more than two hours before kickoff. This is spread across three to six hours depending on game time. The rest of the cars arrive in the final two hours. Traffic is worst from say 1.5 to 0.5 hours before kickoff. But it can be bad 2 or 2.5 hrs before kickoff. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 10:49:54 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 09:29:10 2011. Your first point is incorrect. IME at giants sta and NMS, roughly betw 40 and 65% of cars arrive more than two hours before kickoff. This is spread across three to six hours depending on game time. The rest of the cars arrive in the final two hours. Traffic is worst from say 1.5 to 0.5 hours before kickoff. But it can be bad 2 or 2.5 hrs before kickoff. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 10:50:06 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 09:29:10 2011. Your first point is incorrect. IME at giants sta and NMS, roughly betw 40 and 65% of cars arrive more than two hours before kickoff. This is spread across three to six hours depending on game time. The rest of the cars arrive in the final two hours. Traffic is worst from say 1.5 to 0.5 hours before kickoff. But it can be bad 2 or 2.5 hrs before kickoff. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:05:42 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 10:49:54 2011. NMS? |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:24:59 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:05:42 2011. New Meadowlands Stadium? |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:31:26 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:24:59 2011. Got it. Score one "duh" for me. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:36:24 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 10:49:54 2011. How do you come up with your estimation?Most games start at 1:00. If 40% of cars were arriving more than two hours before game time then peak arrivals and peak traffic would be at 10:30 or so -- that isn't the case. If 65% were arriving more than two hours before game time then you would have near gridlock at 10:30, followed by clear sailing at noon. That isn't the case either. I think your estimate of 40-65% is a gross over-estimate. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:51:17 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:36:24 2011. Not necessarily. As was mentioned by someone earlier, many people arrive well before game time so the first 50% may arrive over a 5 hour period while the last 50% arrive in a much shorter span. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:57:21 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:51:17 2011. But for a 1:00 game, the potential arrival span is condensed.The number of cars arriving at 8:00 AM and 9:00 AM are insignificantly small. Simple logic of looking at peak traffic loads outside the stadium tells me that (far) less than 40% are arriving more than 2 hours before the game. If more than 40% were arriving more than 2 hours before game time, then you would have the most traffic on the surrounding roads at that time. But the most traffic is one hour before game time -- that has to be when the most cars are arriving. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:16:17 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:24:59 2011. Yes. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:18:53 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:51:17 2011. Correct. That's what I told him. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:19:48 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:57:21 2011. No, it's like exactly how I said in my long post. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:27:40 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:36:24 2011. I've been to 15+ games at those stadiums over the least 5 years. And for most of them I arrived about 5 hours before kickoff. And I spent a lot of that time walking through and photographing the parking lots. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:27:44 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:36:24 2011. I've been to 15+ games at those stadiums over the least 5 years. And for most of them I arrived about 5 hours before kickoff. And I spent a lot of that time walking through and photographing the parking lots. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 12:29:28 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:19:48 2011. I'm not seeing the logic.Perhaps the logic is possible for a 4:00 game, but I don't see how it can make sense for a 1:00. Seems like you are posting in short form -- perhaps you can explain more later. Or not. No biggie either way (I just don't find your explanation particularly compelling). |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 12:51:34 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 06:06:41 2011. Doesn't make it a 'lousier' stadium. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 12:55:14 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 12:29:28 2011. Yes, I'm on my cellphone. I can discuss more later. But you are correct that 1 pm games have compressed arrival schedule. But not that compressed that the numbers I gave would be significantly different as far as percentages. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 7 12:58:20 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 12:51:34 2011. Guess that depends on the lice population there . . . |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 13:16:58 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 6 21:54:31 2011. 'Eligible' doesn't mean 'served'. Matter of opinion... |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 13:21:12 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 13:16:58 2011. I know it doesn't mean that. I meant eligible, like I wrote. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:16:10 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 05:59:29 2011. giant stadium is in east rutherford new jersey, in case no one answered.chud1 |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Apr 7 14:22:49 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by vfrt on Wed Apr 6 18:17:28 2011. I would imagine that the original Yankee Stadium was also designed for baseball only yet the NY Giants played there for a time. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:31:41 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Randyo on Thu Apr 7 14:22:49 2011. the original yankee stadium was super big and there was plenty of room for a football field. i went to a few games there being a yankee fan since the year i was born 1956.chud1 |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 14:32:44 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:16:10 2011. WAS. That stadium no longer exists, and the new stadium is awaiting the highest bidder for naming rights. Currently, it's known as 'New Meadowlands Stadium', which is a bit odd, because there was never a stadium known as Meadowlands Stadium before. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:34:57 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 14:32:44 2011. he did ask for location of giants stadium, i know its gone after the new meadowland stadium was built.chud1. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 15:05:30 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:16:10 2011. Huh? I had answered... |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Apr 7 16:11:12 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by vfrt on Wed Apr 6 18:17:28 2011. I DO believe the new YS was designed so it be adapted for football - being how it was privately financed, they have/had to find a way for it to be utilized for more thna 81 baseball games a year ( ok plus post season games).The original YS was designed to fairly multi purpose also - even though football was not that big a deal in 1923. It originally a track encircling it, and had design elements so it could be used for boxing (which WAS a big deal back then) This page has a great interactive diagram showing the changes in the ballpark over the years. (opens a new page/tab) |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 7 16:31:02 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 06:41:13 2011. LOL! |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 18:33:58 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Apr 7 16:11:12 2011. a excellent job Lou from Middleton NY on finding the interactive diagram on the 3 yankee stadiums.chud1 |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:09:04 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:36:24 2011. I disagree. More than half the cars are there many hours before kickoff, and yes that would be about 10:00 or 10:30 for 1:00 games, or around 12 or 1 for 4:00 games. That is most definitely when almost half the cars are arriving/have arrived.In my experience he is not overestimating at all. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:10:01 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:57:21 2011. I don't agree. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:11:58 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 12:29:28 2011. Why is it that much different for a 1:00 game? It doesn't make the amount tailgating less if it's a 1:00 game, it's just that at 1:00, they come less spread out. They come earlier (hourwise) for the 4:00 games than for the 1:00 games, but it's probably about the same amount of people tailgating at either. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:18:33 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 7 11:51:17 2011. And that makes a lot of sense, and mirrors my experience. If you aren't tailgating, you will be one of the 40% (give or take) that isn't tailgating, and you will be part of the congestion that arrives an hour or two before the game. If you are tailgating, you are part of the 60% (give or take) that is spread out much earlier, and into that two hour mirror (if doing a quickie).I have been a part of either group arriving, depending on my circumstances. For example, a few times I went to preseason Friday night games, and we had to go after work. Those usually start at either 7:30 or 8:30 Friday night, and in those cases, one of my friends only gets out at 5 from work on Long Island. So the rest of us that could get off work early loaded up the car with the tailgating supplies, and met him at his job to pick him up at 5, rushed to the Meadowlands (which is no small short task on a Friday Night), and only got there at let's say 7:00....did a quick tailgate/BBQ, and sometimes missed kickoff as we were still outside finishing up. Of course, Sunday games are much easier, and we arrive much earlier, and when we usually arrive, (usually about 3-4 hours before kickoff), and the parking lot is already usually about 40% full when WE get there!! |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:22:22 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:16:10 2011. Nope. Giants Stadium is not in East Rutherford New Jersey anymore. It was demolished. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:23:15 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by chud1 on Thu Apr 7 14:34:57 2011. Nope, I asked where 'Giants Stadium" is because it doesn't exist.The Jets/Giants own New Meadowlands Stadium mutually. there is no "Giants Stadium". |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:24:01 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 06:41:13 2011. Hahaha! Yup! |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:27:41 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Apr 7 16:11:12 2011. Wow! What I find interesting is that the New Yankee Stadium has the exact dimension field as the 1988 incarnation of Old Yankee Stadium. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Apr 7 22:14:39 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:27:41 2011. Basically they copied the dimensions for the new place from the old place post 88 - too bad they couldn't have put a little more of Death Valley back in the size... |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 23:34:49 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Charles G on Thu Apr 7 11:57:21 2011. The number of cars arriving at 8:00 AM and 9:00 AM are insignificantly small. No, not insignificantly small. It's a pretty significant number. How many times have you gotten there at 8am and observed the traffic from 8am to 9am? Simple logic of looking at peak traffic loads outside the stadium tells me that (far) less than 40% are arriving more than 2 hours before the game. No, it is not anywhere nearly that simple. If more than 40% were arriving more than 2 hours before game time, then you would have the most traffic on the surrounding roads at that time. But the most traffic is one hour before game time -- that has to be when the most cars are arriving. Your math does not compute. Let's say 50% arrive more than two hours before game time. So the 50% of arrivals are spread over three hours (parking lots open five hours before game time). So that means, in very simplistic terms, that 50% / 3 = 16.67% arrive per hour for the first three hours. Then the final 50% arrive in the last two hours. So that means, again in very simplistic terms, that 50% / 2 = 25% arrive per hour for the final two hours. So using your reasoning, it makes sense that traffic would be worse closer to game time, since a greater % of cars are arriving per hour closer to game time. Unfortunately for you, like I said, it's not as simple as you have made it out to be. Other factors, MANY other factors, contribute to the perceived (and real) worse traffic on surrounding roads that occurs closer to game time. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 7 23:44:11 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 6 21:53:02 2011. Yes, it is part of the reason. People park at Woodlawn, alongside Van Cortlandt Park and take the 4 train. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 23:45:59 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 7 23:44:11 2011. No, it's not. Like I said. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 7 23:52:52 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 7 23:45:59 2011. Well, traffic is another reason.So why do people part at Woodlawn and take the 4 train? Just to avoid traffic? Of course, some of these people are trying to avoid the parking fees. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 8 00:22:14 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 7 23:52:52 2011. Please try to follow the subthread. It's not that hard. Start here: Those parking garages near Yankee Stadium are charging $35 to park, no wonder they are only 60% full. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by TonyG on Fri Apr 8 00:27:39 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 8 00:22:14 2011. There's no way in hell I'd pay anywhere close to $35 to park at Yankee Stadium. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 8 00:39:53 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 8 00:22:14 2011. yes, it's just like the people who work at JFK, who park in Ozone Park, walk over the Belt to Lefferts Air Train station. they are trying to avoid the "imaginary line" and $18 parking. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 8 00:40:23 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 8 00:22:14 2011. yes, it's just like the people who work at JFK, who park in Ozone Park, walk over the Belt to Lefferts Air Train station. they are trying to avoid the "imaginary line" and $18 parking. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 8 00:43:24 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by TonyG on Fri Apr 8 00:27:39 2011. i hope you come out east this summer. I know SWA's problems won't scare you out of flying.$35 is a lot. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by TonyG on Fri Apr 8 01:13:28 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 8 00:43:24 2011. It's looking more and more like if I do make it out East, it won't be until October. Also, I'll be spending some of my time in October in Orlando visiting my brother, as he'll be living out there. |
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Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?! |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Apr 8 04:35:00 2011, in response to Re: Football fans don't take mass transit?!, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 7 20:23:15 2011. if u know it doesn't exist then why am i made to look like a fool by answering.chud1 |
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