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| Re: 76st what happened? (1030985) | |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 22:21:13 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 22:14:20 2011. No Problem, I'll dig through the files and see if I can locate if anything. I also plan on doing a walking tour of the area Friday after school...wish luck :-/.Also another thing, what other tunnels of this like exsist? I've heard mention of 185th on the QB Line and The Narrows tunnel and the Flatbush Junction...do these exsist? -Dan |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Jan 31 22:26:38 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 21:57:46 2011. Even if there were "5 foot drops" the subway infrastructure at that location would definitely be a lot more that 5 feet down since A7 and A8 yard leads would be approaching the area from ABOVE the mainline subway which would place the station shell much farther down below street level than a mere 5 feet. The parts of the subway north of the concrete bulkhead that we know are definitely built are definitely deeper that 5 feet since they are below K5 and K6 leads which go underneath Grant Av and that's pretty deep. Besides that, even sewers would likely be more than 5 feet below street level. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 31 22:26:41 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Randyo on Mon Jan 31 22:13:31 2011. You can see the mounds of dirt from the raised roadway. Essentially where the sidewalk (if any) ends and the empty lots begin. Considering that the lots are several feet below besides the road/sidewalk, a station would have been sticking out several more feet into the lot for entryways, turnstiles, booths, platforms, etc. and then drop vertically as in any such construction.The best comparison is the (1) station at the WTC which could be clearly seen "sticking out" besides and under Greenwich St when that street was raised/rebuilt above Ground Zero after cleanup and reconstruction of the subway line but before it's north and south edges were filled. The Pitkin Av roadway has no such thing in that photo. A tunnel....maybe. But no station. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 22:30:04 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 31 22:26:41 2011. Considering that the lots are several feet below besides the road/sidewalk,This is ridiculous, as there's absolutely no evidence of this AT ALL. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Jan 31 22:31:25 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 31 22:26:41 2011. See my other post on this subject. Since the mainline if the Pitkin subway is below both the level of Grant Av station and the Associated yard leads from Pitkin. the station would have to be from 2 to 3 track levels below the street level and certainly out of sight of anything that camera can pick up. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jan 31 22:35:33 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 22:30:04 2011. Careful. He'll want your head cut off if you disagree with him |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 22:39:47 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Randyo on Mon Jan 31 22:26:38 2011. Yeah, the whole hearsay argument about this is nothing more than that. I want to prove this one way or another too, but not by just manufacturing some sort of "proof" out of nothing. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by f179dj on Mon Jan 31 22:44:43 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 22:21:13 2011. 185 on the QB line is a dead end, literally. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 22:48:05 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by f179dj on Mon Jan 31 22:44:43 2011. I've heard there is a platform, albeit a small one there...is this true? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by f179dj on Mon Jan 31 23:03:37 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 22:48:05 2011. Yeah, the benchwall. LOL. It's an inside joke.You could look into the vacant land at 186-187 Hillside (on the south side; AAA took part of it in the late fifties/early sixties, and at 188 Hilside, still vacant at the same time. A gas station eventually took over the south east corner; Jeffers Funeral Home the north east corner. The western corners at that location were already developed. Then there's the south east corner of 197 and Hillside, undeveloped until last year (sorry, I don't count used car lots that don't "put down roots"). The other three corners at that location were already built-up. But much of the property to the west of 197 for a block or so is set back, when it really doesn't need to be. Happy hunting. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 23:06:14 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by f179dj on Mon Jan 31 23:03:37 2011. Hmmm, Interesting stuff. Anything about the Narrows tunnel? I've heard that it extended at least 150 in from the Bklyn side.-Dan |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 23:09:31 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by f179dj on Mon Jan 31 23:03:37 2011. Hmmm, Interesting stuff. Anything about the Narrows tunnel? I've heard that it extended at least 150 in from the Bklyn side.-Dan |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by f179dj on Mon Jan 31 23:19:34 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 23:06:14 2011. Sorry, I'm from Queens, and from the place in question for almost four times your lifetime; no Brooklyn folklore here (however, iirc, there was a story in the NYDN about this a decade or two ago). |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 31 23:20:58 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by kahlua on Mon Jan 31 16:51:23 2011. LOL. Next time you are passing someone on a two lane road, you make sure you do not exceed the speed limit. LOL! |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 31 23:34:37 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Randyo on Mon Jan 31 22:31:25 2011. where are the entrances/exits?There are not on the street and there are none on the empty lots. |
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Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by grimace1169 on Tue Feb 1 00:11:41 2011, in response to Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened?, posted by Randyo on Sun Jan 30 22:00:45 2011. I don't believe I had posted this on here before. I know about the open space above (looks like 4 trackways) and also that this is what Mr. Brennen says on his great website but I believe there is a shell at 2nd Ave. Look at the ceiling between the open space and the 2nd ave. exit. There are what appears to be 5 trackways in the ceiling, nothing very different looking but 5 lengths going across the ceiling. Look at the middle one. It would appear that it was planned to have a staircase go up to the ceiling at this point. A very small staircase ala Utica ave. perhaps? There are lightbulb fixtures in the ceiling at this point typical of a staircase. This is repeated on both F platforms. It would have been an unusual arrangement ala 7th and 34st or 8th and 34st. Picture this, you go through the turnstile at the 2nd ave. entrance and walk right across to the S/B 2nd ave. local train. I don't know why this arrangement was chosen and I can not account for the open space within the station. 2nd ave is one of the most unique IND stations we have. Now I know what you must be thinking. I don't know what the mezz looked like years ago, maybe somebody here does. The area is walled off and an employee facility is in the area now. It is fairly new because of the new V line service at the time. I have access and behind a door within the facility that houses machinery and such, you can climb down and see where it was supposed to be trackways in this area and not the open area that we can all see in the station. In other words, beneath the facility floor is 4 feet of open space. This facility pretty much took up most of the area but maybe one day this space will be reclaimed. |
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Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 1 00:13:18 2011, in response to Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened?, posted by grimace1169 on Tue Feb 1 00:11:41 2011. Hey stranger! Good to see ya! :) |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Feb 1 07:38:59 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 31 23:34:37 2011. Because the station was never opened. Because it was never finished. Even the reports on the station (if true) say only one side was finished. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Feb 1 10:31:40 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 31 21:46:00 2011. What he said!avid Reader |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 10:56:35 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 23:09:31 2011. Where did you hear this? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 11:12:16 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 22:21:13 2011. I provided proof that was posted here that the narrows tunnel was built on the brooklyn side from senator st,the eastern end to at least the con ed/sewerage plant on the west end of the belt p`way.google the narrows tunnel,there`s a lot written about it.In stan fishler`s book "the subway"on page 163 is a photo of when a low-v- took out the bumper block at flatbush/nostrand.its the same location where the b/b is today.the photo shows tunnel w/o track beyound the b/b.untill a few years ago there were sealed up gratings on the sidewalk untill,iirc home depot was built next to the ROW.so goes the theory that there MUST be gratings to prove a subway exsists.also at 66th.ave west of queens blvd,no gratings.past the b/b`s at 95st.on the R the 2 track empty tunnel extends to 101st.no gratings.the only entrance to this,as I was told is a manhole cover on the left hand side of the street facing towards 96st. |
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Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 11:25:04 2011, in response to Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened?, posted by Jeff H. on Mon Jan 31 21:04:06 2011. Jeff,i,m pretty sure I snail/mailed you all of this info years ago.check your hardcopies. |
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Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 11:30:29 2011, in response to Re: Time to put this myth to rest Was: 76st what happened?, posted by grimace1169 on Tue Feb 1 00:11:41 2011. Guys,Guys,Guys.I posted on this several times over the years.that was the only part of thr ORIGINAL 2nd.ave.subway built in Manh.its now crew quarters.when I got in several years ago it was just a large empty room,nothing else. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Feb 1 13:28:29 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 30 11:58:06 2011. There was a lot of that in Chicago. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:37:23 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by DHeese810 on Mon Jan 31 23:09:31 2011. The only thing that was started was the shaft, they didn't dig any of the tunnel, and I don't know if the shaft ever reached the tunnel depth anyway. It was most likely back-filled. It is in Owl's Head Park. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:39:58 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 22:17:26 2011. That's not "hearsay." Tunnelrat's posts, however are classic hearsay: "I heard it from someone, who heard it from someone else who worked there for 3 weeks in 1964. Or was it 1967?" |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 19:55:09 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:37:23 2011. The tunnel was described to me as this:picture the penn.rr tunnels coming into NYP.2 tubes w/o any track,no lites or roadbed.no wall between the tunnels.as it slopes towards the sewerage plant there is at least ankle deep water[normal seepage]probably more since its constuction was stopped in 1925.One of the entrances was at the 65st.exit of the belt p`way.it was a pull up type grating with a rung ladder going down 6 stories.The reason it was concreted over was because the kids used to play in it.One day the local punk who used to shake the other kids down for their pocket change slipped off one of the rungs & fell to the bottom,unknown if he survived[I hope he didn`t]after that the city sealed it with a concrete slab.10,or more years ago the city laid topsoil on top of this & turned into a little park area. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Feb 1 19:56:20 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:39:58 2011. "I heard it from someone, who heard it from someone else who worked there for 3 weeks in 1964. Or was it 1967?"I got a pretty good idea who that is.. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 19:57:07 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:39:58 2011. FYI:Richard"bruno"haupmann was convicted on HEARSAY. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:59:09 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 31 20:31:47 2011. I told you to click on the chain icon. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:00:05 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Feb 1 19:56:20 2011. Please post the post where I said that. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:09:06 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 19:55:09 2011. The tunnel was described to me…More hearsay. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:09:32 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:00:05 2011. It wasn't a literal quote. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:14:10 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 19:57:07 2011. Absolutely not. What part of the evidence against Hauptmann (who was convicted of kidnapping the Lindbergh baby) was hearsay? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:21:38 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:09:32 2011. You said I said it.I didn`t thats a LIE in my book.what other lies have you posted about me? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:22:43 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:14:10 2011. you do the research.I won`t |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:50:02 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:21:38 2011. I never said you said it. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:50:54 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:22:43 2011. So YOU were lying about Hauptmann. Yet another thing you're misinformed about and try to pass off as the truth. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 20:51:39 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 20:50:54 2011. more of your lies,lier. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Feb 1 20:57:56 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 19:39:58 2011. Just because something is heresay doesn't automatically mean it's necessarily bad |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 21:38:10 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Feb 1 20:57:56 2011. Hearsay is not universally excluded from a criminal case, at least under the federal rules. In any case, I was only correcting someone's use of the term "hearsay" to put something down, not saying that it's bad. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by f179dj on Tue Feb 1 22:07:06 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 19:55:09 2011. "as it slopes towards the sewerage plant"That's sewage treatment plant, WADR. Worked there for a couple of summers as your sort of college intern. Was great to wake up in the morning and see the ships lined up and/or coming into the harbor as the sun rose. Set the cholorine mixture at 11 pm, sleep, adjust it at 6 am; all while being on the payroll. Prolly still goes on, and that was 40 years ago. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 23:07:57 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by f179dj on Tue Feb 1 22:07:06 2011. the parking area by the verranzano was,&still is a great place for for biking,walking,GIRL WATCHING&ship watching. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 23:13:23 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 21:38:10 2011. Speaking of which,where did you get your info that only shafts were sunk for the narrows tunnel? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 23:42:33 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 31 21:57:46 2011. He's trying to show what the "five foot drops" would have looked like.Example: View Larger Map |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 23:45:43 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 23:13:23 2011. Don't know. It's the only information I've heard about it until now. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 23:56:29 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 1 23:45:43 2011. was it possible it was a newspaper article posted here? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 2 00:03:59 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 23:56:29 2011. yes. |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Feb 2 00:26:49 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 1 23:56:29 2011. how come you believe the article but you don`t believe my research& eyewittness accounts of said tunnel? |
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Re: 76st what happened? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 2 00:39:34 2011, in response to Re: 76st what happened?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 2 00:03:59 2011. More likely it was SubTalk. |
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