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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:04:35 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Fred G on Mon Jan 3 18:30:04 2005. IWAWTP.The extra W is for wwholeheartedly. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Jan 3 20:05:25 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:04:35 2005. wwholeheartedly.What is that extra w for? |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:16:09 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Jan 3 18:15:37 2005. You just want to try and delete religion totally from this country by saying that.I want to delete religion from the GOVERNMENT of this country, not from this country, exactly as the framers of the Constitution intended. Religion was a big part in the founding of this country. No, it wasn't The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion. Is the Great Awakening nothing? No, but that doesn't change the text or meaning of the US Constitution. People like you are just so intolerant. And it comes from the ones like the ACLU who claim to be so tolerant. Yes, I am intolerant of people who feel it is the business of the United States Government to promote THEIR religion or any religion for that matter, when the Constitution is very clear on the matter. |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 20:50:31 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 19:31:56 2005. The 25th of December was not chosen at random, it was chosen because it was Christmas Day, and some people felt that could be commercially exploited. That still does not make the holiday non-religious in nature.Correct, but the vast majority of the people standing on line at KMart are certainly not thinking of Jesus, nor are they when they are putting their Woolworth's balls on the tree. So what? Religious celebrations evolve over time, and the fact that they are introduced solely in order for someone to make money does not make them any less religious. Religions have always tried to make money from the faithful. Ever heard of tithing? Or selling indulgences? Tithing has nothing to do with getting the XBox you wanted as a gift, nor buying the watch for a father. Tithing is giving a ccertain amount of your income to the church, which is irrelevant to Christmas shopping. So? The parade takes place on a different holiday and bears little resemblance to the celebration of Christmas. And the Christmas the United States celebrates bears little resemblance to the celebration of the [religious] Christmas, in fact it's quite different than the rest of the world too (although the "Americanized" version is slowly sneaking in elsewhere now too).. As for the parade, the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade wus begun in the 1920's as a publicity for Macy's beginning the holiday shopping season. In fact, it was originally called the "Macy's Christmas Pagent", later the "Macy's Christmas Parade", the finally it is now called the "Macy's Thanksgiving Parade". It is completely rooted in Christmas though....the secular one. Santa Claus is St. Nicholas, a Christian saint. Perhaps, but I'm sure he never touched a reindeer, nor rode a flying sled. behind flying reindeer. Pure Fiction. Pure non-religious fiction. It seems silly to say that CHRISTmas is not a religious holiday when religion is right there in the name! We are talking about Rudolph here. A fictional animal invented by a retailer in the 1930's. He may have been "born" on Christmas, of rode around on "Christmas" (fictionally), but that doesn't make him a religious icon. |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:55:30 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 20:50:31 2005. Correct, but the vast majority of the people standing on line at KMart are certainly not thinking of Jesus, nor are they when they are putting their Woolworth's balls on the tree.Right, and people can do and think as the please, this isn't a problem. The problem is when a religious holiday is celebrated by a government agency. This includes things like Christmas trees and decorations and Rudolph. Macy*s is not a government agency. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:55:50 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Jan 3 20:05:25 2005. typo |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 20:57:40 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:55:50 2005. I'm King of the Typos. |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 21:06:22 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:55:30 2005. Okay. I agree on much of the Govt stuff.Althought, government obviously should be closed on Christmas (for financial reasons, and manpower reasons), but I agree on the Flag thing. I still don't see a problem with Rudolph, etc (American inventions). As for Macy's, I only brought that up because if people think "Christmas" is so "religious" in this country (which it's not, even if it's origins are in religion), than the American Icon of the "Macy's Thanksgiving Parade" is "religious" too, seeing that it is really the "Macy's Christmas Pageant" (Macy's Christmas Parade later) in it's origin, hense, "religious" by people's definition of "religious" in much of this thread.* *but then again, I don't think the Macy*s parade is any more religious than the rest of the "crap" that goes on during the Christmas Season. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon Jan 3 21:42:06 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Jan 3 18:05:33 2005. The schools are not closed on most of the Jewish holidays. In most of the country, they are not closed on any of them, except when a Jewish holiday happens to fall out when school is closed anyway. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon Jan 3 21:46:17 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Jan 3 12:48:16 2005. Chanukah is "around this time of year" because the rededication of the Temple -- the event that Chanukah celebrates -- fell on the 25th of Kislev, which falls roughly around this time of year, usually in December, sometimes in late November.Chanukah is not a "big celebration" compared to most other Jewish holidays, except in the (mostly Christian) minds of those who assume Chanukah is the "Jewish Christmas." The Biblically ordained Pilgrimage Festivals and Days of Awe are much bigger celebrations. I certainly don't want the government putting up decorations on Sukkos; I can decorate my own sukkah myself if I so choose. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Flxiblemetro on Mon Jan 3 21:54:57 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 16:40:27 2005. Hey GP38/R42 Chris,Jehovah's Witnesses definitely don't believe any of those secular customs of Christmas you posted. They believe those customs came from ancient false religions |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 3 23:15:01 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 19:49:55 2005. yes |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 23:46:31 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 3 23:15:01 2005. No.I ought now go break some Woolworth's balls over your head, or maybe the red bulb from that Montgomery Ward reindeer (less painful than the Bible I was threatened with). :) |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 00:50:05 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 23:46:31 2005. Yes |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 4 07:03:00 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 00:50:05 2005. Yes. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 4 07:05:11 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 23:46:31 2005. You want a non-religious holiday? Start a new holiday towards the end of February that involves Americans giving presents to other Americans and call it "Present Day." THAT would be a non-religious holiday that all Americans could feel comfortable participating in. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 4 09:51:46 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 4 07:05:11 2005. Hey, I like that, a day in Ferbruary called "Pres[id]ent Day"! |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 4 09:52:42 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 4 09:51:46 2005. Hey, I like that, a day in Ferbruary called "Pres[id]ent Day"!Whenever "Ferbruary" is (geez, I really messed that month up). |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 4 09:55:43 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 00:50:05 2005. Yes to the breaking of the Woolworth's balls and red bulb over the head? |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Jan 4 12:12:39 2005, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Verbal Kent on Sat Dec 25 21:51:29 2004. The seculiberalists would eliminate any mention in the history books and literature of anything that had to do with religion.That's not what all this is about. It's not about a revisionist history wherein we can all blindly pretend that there was no religion. After all, if you eliminate religion from history, then how do you explain all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of 'God'? I don't think the human psyche could stand to have all that guilt placed squarely on our shoulders. Teach about religion, teach children the good parts and the bad parts, don't leave stuff out, however it must be done without any implied favoring of one religion or another. Also so long as you're teaching public school kids, there should be no celebration of any religious holidays. Instead of your paranoid fantasies wherein the black helicopters come for your bibles to burn them, it's really just about not having our Government sponsor one religion over another. A nativity scene on the lawn of a town hall is a clear sponsorship of Christianity by that governmental body. Adding a Menorah, Kwanzaa Candles, Festivus pole, or whatever next to it does not make it better, it makes it worse. Now the government is implicitly telling you "these religions are ok, but if you choose not to practice a religion, then that's not okay". Of course people will find that offensive, you're insane if you think everyone who doesn't believe what you believe will cowtow to your opinion and just keep their mouth shut over such an obvious affront to 200 years of judicial rulings. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 16:07:28 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 4 09:55:43 2005. Sure, why not. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Tue Jan 4 20:43:07 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:16:09 2005. I am intolerant of people who feel it is the business of the United States Government to promote THEIR religion or any religion for that matter, when the Constitution is very clear on the matter.I see what you mean, but does that in effect mean that public schools should not be off on Jewish holidays or that the tree outside City Hall has to be refered to as a "holiday tree"? -James |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Tue Jan 4 20:48:47 2005, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 19:19:09 2005. Wrong. Anyone can see what is being conveyed through a symbol and can see that it isn't just a baby being born.Not really depending on the extent of the nativity. Just Mary and Joseph with Jesus in the middle is not much of a representation of a savior being born. If you add an angle and kings kneeling at the scene, it becomes more like it. But I don't think you can say Jesus, Mary, and Joseph alone has to be interpreted as a religious symbol. -James |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Anon_e_mouse on Tue Jan 4 21:00:40 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Mon Jan 3 20:03:04 2005. In a school district where few or no students are Jewish, it would be silly to close on Jewish holidays, just as it is silly to close on Christmas in a district where there are few or no Christians (yes, it's rare, but I'm sure there's at least one).There is one, in Rockland County, NY as I recall, that was carefully gerrymandered to encompass an Orthodox enclave. It made the news a few years back due to some controversy over special ed students - I don't recall the exact issue now or how it was resolved. Until next time... Anon_e_mouse |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by willD on Tue Jan 4 21:20:19 2005, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Broadway Buffer on Tue Jan 4 20:48:47 2005. Here's the only problem with that little scheme: All the afformentioned people would constitute the family of Mr and Mrs Joseph Christ of Nazareth. The story describing the scene you recounted is in the bible, which is, amongst other roles as coaster or convenient bug planting location (remember the X-files?), the foundation of Christianity. Given that you're constructing the scene based wholly upon the story told in the Bible, it can only be construed as a Religious symbol. And in it's capacity as a religious symbol it cannot be erected on the property of a governmental institution because then the Government is clearly lending it's tacit support of that religion through those religious symbols placed on it's lawn. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 4 21:45:50 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Anon_e_mouse on Tue Jan 4 21:00:40 2005. There is one, in Rockland County, NY as I recall, that was carefully gerrymandered to encompass an Orthodox enclave. It made the news a few years back due to some controversy over special ed students - I don't recall the exact issue now or how it was resolved.Kiryas Joel. Most of the town's children attended private religious schools, but community leaders wanted the local school district to provide special education services for the children in need of such. I don't know what the eventual outcome was.. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 4 21:46:23 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Anon_e_mouse on Tue Jan 4 21:00:40 2005. There is one, in Rockland County, NY as I recall, that was carefully gerrymandered to encompass an Orthodox enclave. It made the news a few years back due to some controversy over special ed students - I don't recall the exact issue now or how it was resolved.Kiryas Joel. Most of the town's children attended private religious schools, but community leaders wanted the local school district to provide special education services for the children in need of such. I don't know what the eventual outcome was.. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 4 21:49:14 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 4 21:45:50 2005. The outcome was that the State Court of Appeals repeatedly ruled the school district unconstitutional because it was clearly created to serve a religious purpose. The Legislature kept coming back with minor variants of what the court had just turned down. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 22:54:51 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 4 21:49:14 2005. The case was appealed to the US Supreme Court and the Court ruled against the gerrymandering. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 22:55:45 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Tue Jan 4 20:43:07 2005. I've already posted about that. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:03:49 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Wed Dec 22 11:42:55 2004. No. There is only one god. He is just worshipped differently by thetwo religions. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:05:47 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 30 17:52:48 2004. It's not. Just as you claim Christians don't understand, so you don't understand this notion. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:08:18 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Dec 30 19:06:18 2004. Wow - I feel like i missed the boat on this one, but I see my arguments in this have already been discussed by others too. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:12:17 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Dec 30 16:07:39 2004. Exactly.The Christian faith believes things changed with the coming of Jesus and it was where the Jewish religion was going. The Jews that remained Jews believe he was not the messiah, and continued on thier reigion from that point,an are stil waiting for the Messiah, which Chritians believe was already here. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:13:47 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Rail Blue on Tue Dec 28 22:55:11 2004. That's exactly the point. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:14:41 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Dec 28 23:02:26 2004. True, but it is believed that things changed with the coming of Jesus. |
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Re: Correction in second sentence Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:18:36 2005, in response to Correction in second sentence Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Dec 28 22:18:09 2004. Well stated. |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:21:05 2005, in response to Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 18:02:25 2005. Christmas evolved from a religious holiay to a big business. Most of the things that go on at Xmas were started by retailers, as stated.And don't think the Jewish retailers weren't any less involved with the "Christmas" we see now than the Christian retailers were. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by R143 on Wed Jan 5 14:25:18 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Mon Jan 3 21:46:17 2005. But you seem to assume the Christian Christmas is some "big celebration" when in fact, most of what you see has nothing to do with the Christian Christmas any more than the "Jewish" unimportand Hanukah is. What you see is what the secular world made out of it, just like the secular word may have begun to do to hanukah. |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Wed Jan 5 20:40:49 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 22:55:45 2005. Yes I know, sorry about that. I read this before I went up to that one. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Anon_e_mouse on Thu Jan 6 00:34:31 2005, in response to Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Dec 20 15:48:20 2004. The Union of Reform Judaism (the synagogue arm of the Reform movement) publishes a daily study email entitled Ten Minutes of Torah. I thought that this Wednesday's issue was particularly appropriate to this discussion and initially shared it with American Pig. He agreed with my notion to post it here, so... here it is. The last sentence sums it all up very well: It's who you are. I may not be what some would define as a religious Jew, in that I do not follow Orthodox practice, but my Jewish identity is first and foremost a religious one; it is an essential part of me, without which I would be but a shell. It's who I am.Until next time... Anon_e_mouse ----- January 5, 2005 24 Tevet 5765 Galilee Diary by Marc Rosenstein ...And a happy new year I accompanied a group of Israeli teachers on a Partnership 2000 visit to meet their peers in an American Jewish community last week. One of the teachers went shopping with her hostess for school materials, and found some great bulletin-board borders. "But you can't buy those," said her hostess, "those are Christmas symbols!" To which the Israeli responded, "But to us they have no meaning; they are pretty and colorful and don't have any symbolic overtones to my students." Their argument became the subject of a discussion among the whole group, which made clear to the Israelis that the colorful, cheerful, happy "holiday season" is for many Jews and Jewish educators a difficult time, when they feel overwhelmed by a powerful flood that threatens to wash away their own sense of who they (or their students) are. Interestingly, this is not a new dilemma: R. Gamaliel was bathing in the bath of Aphrodite in Akko. Proklos ben Philosophos [a non-Jew] asked him: It is written in your Torah, "Let nothing forbidden stick to your hand" [Deut. 13:18] -- so why are you bathing in the bath of Aphrodite [Venus]? He said to him: One must not answer in the bath house. When he went out, he answered: I didn't come into her turf, she came into mine: one doesn't say, "let's build a bath house in honor of Aphrodite," but rather, "let's make an Aphrodite to decorate our bath house." --Mishnah, Avodah Zarah 3:4 The head of the Sanhedrin, the rabbinical leader of the Jewish people in Israel in the first century, sees the statue of the pagan goddess adorning the local health club as merely a decoration, with no religious symbolism. Even his non-Jewish fellow-bather is surprised by his position. On the other hand, we know of rabbis who refused even to look at a coin that had the image of the emperor on them, not wanting to give the appearance of showing respect for a graven image. So the question of when a symbol loses its meaning is never simple. For most non-religious Israelis, Christmas and especially New Year's Day are simply universal western observances without religious meaning; and since Christians are all of 2% of the population here, we are not exactly under pressure, or in danger of submerging our identity. Today I noticed a poster advertising a Christmas disco party at a nearby kibbutz pub. And New Year's Eve parties have been big business here for years, just like in the rest of the west. It is not called New Year, though, but rather "Sylvester," which ironically brings the problem to the surface: December 31 is St Sylvester's day in the Catholic saints' calendar. Pope Sylvester I lived in the 4th century -- it is said that he baptized the emperor Constantine. In Germany, his day was traditionally celebrated with music and dance, food and drink, at a "Sylvester Ball." Until the rise of secular society in the past two hundred years, the "civil new year" was probably not a term with any meaning: the night of December 31 was indeed a religious holiday in Christian Europe (note that January 1 would be the day of Jesus' bris, too). Not many Jews in the middle ages were wondering if it was OK to celebrate. The fact that the day is called Sylvester here is an attempt to remind us of its origins. Thus, for example, in some years and some cities, the rabbinate has threatened to revoke the kashrut license of any restaurant hosting a Sylvester party, which to most Israelis sounds absurd. Who gets to decide the meaning of a symbol? What about Halloween in American Jewish schools? Is there anybody in America for whom Halloween is a religious holiday -- aside from the Jews who make a point of not celebrating it because it is a religious holiday? But if Halloween is OK, then what about St. Valentine's day? And what about candy canes and colored lights and even a December holiday tree? It's a slippery slope, and even in Israel one can lose one's footing. It's not what you know; but it's also not who you know -- or even where you live. It's who you are. Copyright © 2005 Union of Reform Judaism; used by permission. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Thu Jan 6 15:22:38 2005, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by BIE on Fri Dec 24 12:41:12 2004. Whoopie! |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jan 7 21:33:15 2005, in response to Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 3 18:02:25 2005. >>Lights all over the place has to do with God.<<Yes Uh no. I never saw anywhere in the Bible, or in any church that you should buy colorful lights and put them outside your home Acctually, the lights do have to do with God. Jesus is the light of the world. And I it's definitely in the bible. Because during the Alleluia, a common interlude in the middle of the sung version starts with "You are the light of the world, all of the earth gives your worship, and your majesty fills the heavens, fills the earth!" That is why we decorate with ligths. And even Santa is supposed to represent St. Nicholas. as a Christian symbol who gives during a season of giving. And that goes for shopping also. The three kings brought gifts to Jesus. Therefore, we give gifts to others. Aside from the commercialization of that aspect, it does have a lot to do with God. -James |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Jan 7 22:03:14 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jan 7 21:33:15 2005. Jesus is the light of the worldTo you he is BUT NOT TO ME!!! |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 7 22:48:33 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jan 7 21:33:15 2005.  And even Santa is supposed to represent St. Nicholas. Hey! Did you know that St. Nicholas is also the patron saint of prostitutes? Yes, it is so. And I found that out last year when I was staying overnight at a convent. The sisters seemed to make a big deal of it, though we never mentioned it in our litergies here at the monastery. |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Jan 7 23:07:28 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jan 7 21:33:15 2005. >>Lights all over the place has to do with God.<<Yes Then whoever doesn't have lights must be in league with the Prince of Darkness????? |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Jan 7 23:08:36 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 7 22:48:33 2005. There's a ton of prostitutes in the Old Testament |
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Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Jan 8 15:24:08 2005, in response to Re: Origins of the Secular Christmas Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Fri Jan 7 23:08:36 2005. So why don't brothels celebrate this fact every Christmas? They should. |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Jan 8 15:33:40 2005, in response to Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by WillD on Tue Jan 4 12:12:39 2005. Festivus poles don't represent a religion! They represent a TV show! Come on! |
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Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sat Jan 8 15:43:10 2005, in response to Re: ACLU's way: Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Tue Jan 4 22:54:51 2005. Good move. |
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