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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 08:26:38 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by Rockparkman on Sat Jun 23 10:08:14 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
If you didn't learn to read after 12 years of school, no amount of "making school cool" is going to help you. Face the fact that a share of the population lacks what it takes to master even this basic skill set.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 24 08:29:08 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 08:26:38 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Hey Mengele, YOU are the one who should be sterilized.

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(952654)

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jun 24 09:30:09 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by Rockparkman on Sat Jun 23 10:08:14 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The USA is not the same as it was in the 1960's. Hence Obama's act of Dreams.

You can replace the entire population of france with someone else, it won't make the newbies french.

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(952662)

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 24 10:24:40 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jun 24 09:30:09 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
True enough. However, people who have inate intelligence are being led astray by bullshit popular culture. If corporations want an intellectually oriented generation, they need to assert their ownership of that culture or get the fuck out of the way and let the Government do it.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 10:30:11 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 24 08:29:08 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Good to see you and Olog getting along on something.

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(952668)

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 24 10:33:10 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 10:30:11 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I do agree with him on that. Those who believe in the dark science you advocate should suffer total loss of freedom.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by AlM on Sun Jun 24 10:58:38 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 08:26:38 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I think the number of people who really can't learn to read is pretty small. I would think chaotic family conditions and/or emotional disturbance, perhaps combined with an impediment that makes it harder to learn, like dyslexia, are the most common reasons.



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(EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting "Sieg, Sieg" with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 27 02:02:46 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Der Spiegel

06/26/2012
'Sieg, Sieg' Chants and Hitler Salutes

Behavior of Some German Fans Cause for Concern

Germany has won applause for its easy-going brand of patriotism at football tournaments in recent years. But the behavior of some fans at the Euro 2012 is causing concern. Chants of 'Sieg, Sieg,' Hitler salutes and the display of offensive banners have now led to fines.

UEFA, European football's governing body, fined the German football association €25,000 ($31,000) on Monday for the behavior of its fans during a Euro 2012 match against Denmark in Lviv, Ukraine, on June 17. Supporters set off fireworks in the stadium, displayed "inappropriate banners and symbols" and made "inappropriate" chants, according to UEFA.

The penalty follows a €10,000 fine UEFA imposed on the German football association after supporters threw objects onto the pitch during Germany's opening match against Portugal.

UEFA gave no details, but German supporters have been criticized for chanting "Sieg, Sieg" (Victory) at matches, a call that evokes the Nazi greeting "Sieg Heil" and has been condemned as especially tasteless given that Poland and Ukraine, which are hosting the tournament, suffered terribly at the hands of German troops during World War II.

German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich said the chants were shameful and that he was angry that a small number of Germany supporters had displayed the black, red and white German Reich flag, which has become a neo-Nazi symbol.

'Ashamed'

"As a German patriot I am ashamed at how these people are trying to damage our reputation in Europe and the world," Friedrich told Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung in an interview published last week.

He also criticized a racist message posted on Twitter last week about German midfielder Mesut Özil, who is of Turkish descent but was born in Germany and has German citizenship. The message read: "Özil is definitely not a German! A piece of paper doesn't change your ancestry." Özil's management filed a legal complaint against the anonymous poster of the message.

Other football associations also face disciplinary action for spectator conduct. UEFA on Tuesday opened proceedings against the Russian and Spanish football associations for racist chanting by their supporters. Friedrich also criticized the behavior of Croatian fans who were heard singing racist songs and making ape sounds at black players.

Even though the vast majority of German fans have behaved well, the incidents clash with the image of easygoing, light-hearted patriotism that Germany has been projecting at international tournaments since it hosted the World Cup in 2006. During that tournament, millions began waving the flag, attaching it to their cars and painting their faces in the national colors.

Journalist Reports Seeing Hitler Salutes

Florian Schubert, a journalist who works for the anti-racism website Publikative.org, wrote an article about his experiences traveling with Germany fans to matches in the current tournament.

He wrote that German fans displayed a banner in the match against Denmark with the words "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us), which adorned the belt buckles of Wehrmacht soldiers. He also reported seeing some fans greeting each other with the Hitler salute in the central market square of Lviv after the match.

He took a picture of one Germany supporter in Lviv supporting a German football shirt emblazoned with the number "88" on the back — a neo-Nazi symbol that stands for Heil Hitler. The letter H is the eighth letter in the alphabet.

"Hardly any of these occurrences feature up in the reporting on the matches of the German national team even though journalists must have seen the same thing," writes Schubert. "It is also alarming that hardly any of the other Germany fans seem to mind the described songs, comments and behavior. And all this went on in a city where under Nazism more than half a million people were murdered by the German occupiers — almost the entire Jewish population (more than 400,000 men, women and children) but also more than 140,000 Russian prisoners of war."

cro


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team

Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jun 27 03:55:34 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting "Sieg, Sieg" with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 27 02:02:46 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
How the hell can a team be fined for the behavior of it's fans? That's so wrong. A team has no control over the fans.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 27 10:09:36 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting "Sieg, Sieg" with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 27 02:02:46 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The National Anthem is still the tune, if not the words, of Deutchland Uber Alles.

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EUEUEUEUEU pushing loss of national sovereignty to "save euro" (again)

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 27 10:13:29 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Der Spiegel

06/27/2012
The World From Berlin

'States Must Sacrifice Sovereignty to Save Euro'

Do European leaders trust each other enough to take the steps necessary to secure the long-term existence of the euro? German commentators warn that fundamental questions must be answered at Thursday's EU summit.

Europe's leaders convening in Brussels on Thursday for a European Union summit are under intense pressure to come up with a new plan to save the euro, but they seem as divided as ever.

Chancellor Angela Merkel used uncommonly stark language on Tuesday when she rejected the idea for common euro bonds by saying Europe would not share total debt liability "as long as I live." (alternate translation: "over my dead body".)

But German media commentators have drawn some comfort from a blueprint for a radical revamp of the eurozone's architecture presented this week by the "gang of four" European presidents: European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, Euro Group President Jean-Claude Juncker and European Central Bank President Mario Draghi.

The ideas would entail a dramatic loss of national sovereignty through the establishment of a central authority with power to demand changes in individual members' national budgets, as well as a "medium term" move towards euro bonds, as well as a banking union with a single authority that would insure banking deposits and have the power to shut or recapitalize banks directly, with help from Europe's permanent bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism.

Merkel's partners are pushing her to accept some form of collective debt issuance to ease the pressure on ailing states such as Spain and Italy, whose bond yields have risen to unsustainable levels in recent weeks.

German commentators say EU leaders will have to grasp the nettle and agree to at least the basic framework of a complete overhaul of the euro system if they want to save the single currency. Many agree with Merkel that euro bonds are the wrong answer, and that American calls for Germany to throw money at the problem won't solve the crisis. All countries will have to accept a loss of sovereignty to make the currency work in the long term — and in the medium term, says one commentator, the European Central Bank should take a bigger role in tackling the crisis.

Center-left Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:
Politicians like to dodge answers to the big questions because they are so risky. But politicians must now answer the euro question before it resolves itself with the collapse of Europe's currency: How much are you prepared to pay to keep the currency? The honest answer is this: If Europe's strong west and north want the euro, they will have to pay more for it. It will be expensive, not just for German taxpayers. At the very least, the wealthy regions of Europe will have to take on higher risks on behalf of the ailing states. Before that, the taxpayers will have to answer the question whether they want to keep the euro. Is this currency the best one for them? The honest answer is "yes".

For economically strong countries like Germany, the euro opened up the markets of their neighbors for a lasting boom. To sever all the financial ties among the 17 member states after a euro collapse would cause immeasurable damage which would threaten Germany's jobs miracle. That's why it is the best thing to save the euro with transitional transfer payments.

But ... every policy of providing aid must follow the logic that it tackles the cause of the crisis — otherwise it will just cement the problem. Aid must only come in return for reforms, and that means economic modernization and that governments must no longer manage their deficits on their own. The model used so far, under which the individual states behave sensibly and make savings without being forced to, has failed. The euro can only be saved with a system of coercion. Brussels must have the power to decide on government spending in Italy, Portugal or wherever.

That is the dilemma ahead of the EU summit on Thursday. The ailing euro states clearly need more help, but it is equally clear that this help mustn't cement the old mistakes.

Due to this dilemma, the reality is more complicated than American demands imply: It's not just down to the stingy Germans who could solve everything by paying more.

The chancellor shouldn't agree to aid that she cannot withdraw again if reform pledges are broken. Common debt, financed by euro bonds, cannot be nationalized again. If the German saver becomes liable for Spanish bank accounts, he won't see his money again.

The aid instrument of choice is a different one: the European Central Bank could ease the financial pressure on Spain and Co. as far as necessary until the countries are stable again.

Of course the ECB wasn't set up to provide this kind of help, but in truth it's been buying junk (government) bonds since 2010. Using the ECB for a quick rescue mission until Europe has developed into a stabilitiy union — that is the way to finally get over this crisis.
Conservative Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes:
If the whole thing becomes reality, national governments will no longer have full power over how much they borrow. In the light of the public debt crisis — which for the past two years has gripped politicians, citizens and financial markets and according to leading policymakers has plunged the EU (and the global economy) into an existential crisis — this form of debt control is probably unavoidable. But it effectively means giving up national budget autonomy; the core power of parliaments would be transferred to a Brussels authority.

One has to know that. But one could and should already have known when monetary union was launched that the euro can only achieve its expected stabilitiy if the member states maintain budget discipline and if they reform their economies so that they can withstand competition in the 21st century. That is why the debate about mutualizing debt via euro bonds is misleading, because it only continues the borrowing practices of the past.
Business daily Financial Times Deutschland writes:
The four EU politicians propose a complete reconstruction of the monetary union into a real budget and economic union. At its core is a banking union with a powerful banking supervisory body (in which the ECB will be involved), a common deposit insurance for private accounts as well as an institution, financed by banks, to save ailing banks. And that is the right thing to do: A currency union can only survive if the member states jointly vouch for it — one will have to discuss what form that should take. It is good that the highest authorities have initiated a debate on the concept — for the politicians, but for the citizens as well. Everyone must now be made aware that a bigger mutualization of budgets and finances must inevitably entail a loss of sovereignty for national governments.

This is a warning to the chancellor as well as to the other government leaders who don't like to relinquish their sovereignty. No one needs grand speeches calling for "deeper political union" that aren't followed up by concrete policies. The leaders should agree to the grand outlines at the EU summit — and leave the details to be sorted out by the finance ministers. All that won't affect the current battle against the crisis. The firefighting goes on.
Conservative Die Welt writes:
For the first time there's a plan on the table that tries to find a delicate balance between greater common liability and valid guarantees that it won't be abused. Things are going to get serious at this summit; the changes debated will go to the core. That isn't a bad precondition for the EU to finally show the determination it has claimed to have for the past two years, but has shown too rarely.

The government leaders, and at some point all Europeans, will have to come clean on whether they trust one another to an extent that justifies sharing liability for the debts of others and curtailing national sovereignty. One has to take a deep breath to imagine saying "yes" to these steps.
— David Crossland


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:01:38 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 27 10:09:36 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They've been including the lyrics, of late.

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(EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Can't say that Germany de-Nazified itself now.

The Local

Religious circumcisions are crimes says court

Published: 26 Jun 12 11:03 CET
Religious circumcisions are bodily harm and thus a crime, a German court ruled this week, in what was dubbed a precedent-setting decision.

Non-medical circumcision is a "serious and irreversible interference in the integrity of the human body,” the Cologne district court ruled.

This criminalizes religious circumcisions performed by Jews and Muslims, the Financial Times Deutschland newspaper said on Tuesday. It says circumcision should be considered a crime of bodily harm.

Thousands of very young boys are circumcised in Germany each year, mainly for religious reasons.

In the United States most boys are circumcised shortly after birth - regardless of their religion, though the practice has declined in recent years and anti-circumcision protest groups have sprung up.

German doctors performing circumcisions that are not medically necessary have until now operated in a grey legal area. Until now they could claim that they were unaware that performing a circumcision is a crime.

Even if a physician was later found guilty by a court, there was a legal loophole and he could claim that the law was improper and avoid punishment. That is no longer the case, the Financial Times Deutschland said.

"The ruling is enormously important above all for doctors because it's the first time that they have a legal certainty," Holm Putzke of the University of Passau told the paper. He has been calling for prohibition for years.

“The court has, in contrast to many politicians, not allowed itself to be scared by the fear of being criticised as anti-Semitic or opposed to religion,” Putzke said.

"This decision could not only affect future legal rulings but in the best case it could lead to a change of consciousness among the affected religions when it comes to respecting the basic rights of children."

Jewish and Muslim groups have fought for years against a criminalization of circumcision. They did not have any immediate comment on Monday's ruling, saying they needed to review it first, the paper said.

The court ruling is likely to be highly controversial — experts expect the matter will end up being decided by the Federal Constitutional Court.

The Cologne decision came after a Muslim doctor performed a circumcision on a four-year-old boy. Two days later the mother brought the child to the emergency room because he was bleeding.

The prosecutor's office learned of the situation and filed charges against the doctor. The doctor was found not guilty in the first instance, but the prosecutor appealed.


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jun 28 21:21:44 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
If you don't circumcise a male child, then the parents need to teach the child how to keep his penis clean.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Jun 28 21:26:46 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
iawtp

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Dave on Thu Jun 28 21:49:28 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The article is inaccurate. An exception was made for Jewish children to legally have ritual circumcisions, but Muslims may not.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by TERRapin station on Thu Jun 28 23:04:22 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jun 28 21:21:44 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Holy shit, Batman!

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 23:12:32 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Dave on Thu Jun 28 21:49:28 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Source?

Because der Spiegel is saying the exact same thing as the Local article.

06/27/2012
Parents Vs. the State

Muslims and Jews Outraged by Circumcision Ruling

By Barbara Hans

Leaders of Germany's Jewish and Muslim communities have criticized a court ruling they fear could make circumcision a punishable offense in the country. Only 10 percent of German boys are circumcised, but the issue of whether parents should be able to decide if their children undergo the procedure remains divisive.

In Germany, most men aren't circumcised. But in a diverse country that is home to a number of religious communities, the question of whether parents should be able to determine whether or not their children undergo the procedure can be a hot-button topic. And it is an issue that is unlikely to go away anytime soon, despite a ruling by a German court this week that circumcision represents "bodily harm" to children.

Cologne's regional court ruled Tuesday that doctors in the country who circumcise a boy for religious reasons can be accused of committing bodily injury, even in cases where parents have given their express consent.

At issue is no less than the question of which takes precedence: parents' religious freedom or the right of a child's physical integrity. The Cologne judges have now decided that the right of parents to raise their children religiously does not take precedence over the child's right to self-determination. What's more, they also came to the conclusion that circumcision is in opposition to a child's well-being. Although the ruling is not legally binding for other courts, many expect it will influence other future decisions.

In Germany, circumcision procedures are regularly carried out by doctors, even if the justification is religious rather than medical. In some clinics, mass circumcisions are even carried out. So far, doctors have been operating in a legal gray area, with unclear legal provisions on the subject. Doctors have long been able to invoke that legal vagueness in order to claim the legality of their actions under current German law. After Tuesday's ruling, however, many fear this will no longer be the case.

Preventing the Threat of Stigmatization

The Cologne case involved a four-year-old boy who had been taken on Nov. 4, 2010 to a clinic in the same city, where he was circumcised at the express wish of his Muslim parents. Two days later, the parents brought their son to the emergency room at Cologne's university hospital because he suffered from profuse bleeding. The public prosecutor then filed charges against the doctor.

In its first ruling in the case, the lower Cologne district court ruled that the medical treatment given had been irreproachable and the judges acquitted the doctor. The court ruled that the surgery had in fact represented bodily injury, but that it had been justified by the "child's well-being" and noted that the parents had given their approval for the procedure. The court stated that circumcision serves as a "traditional-ritual course of action for documenting belonging culturally and religiously to the Muslim community." Circumcision, the court argued, would prevent the threat of stigmatization for the child among his peers. The court also stressed its opinion that there are medical advantages to circumcision. The public prosecutor responded by appealing the ruling, pushing the case up to the regional court.

The court ultimately rejected the appeal, ruling that the doctor had been innocent because of the legal uncertainty surrounding circumcision.

The judges nevertheless decided to issue some clarity for the future on that regard, ruling that the surgery, or bodily injury, had not been justified by the permission given by the parents and that it did not represent the well-being of the child. The court ruled that the child's right to physical integrity is more important than the parent's basic rights. The ruling stated that a mother's or father's right to freedom of religion as well as their right to determining how they raise their child would not be limited if they were forced to wait and allow their child to decide for himself if he wanted to be circumcised. The ruling states a child's right to self-determination should come first.

Heated Debate

A controversial discussion has been simmering in Germany for years over how to deal with religion-based circumcisions. In the past, Muslim groups in Germany have accused critics of circumcision of discrimination and paternalism.

And on Tuesday, the country's influential Central Council of Jews lambasted the ruling as an "unprecedented and dramatic intrusion on the right to self-determination of religious communities." One day later, the Central Council of Muslims in Germany (ZMD) joined in the chorus of critics. "Religious freedom is very important in our constitution and cannot become the pawn of a one-dimensional ruling that also further strengthens existing prejudices and clichés about this issue," ZMD chairman Aiman Mayzek said.

Ali Demir, chairman of the Islamic Religious Community, warned of the criminalization of both parents and doctors. "This is a harmless procedure, a tradition that is thousands of years old and highly symbolic." He said the ruling was discriminatory and would hinder the integration of Muslims in Germany.

A heated debate has been carried out in recent years by both legal experts and the medical community over circumcision. Doctors have even advised their colleagues to sign contracts with families before providing the procedure, to ensure they can't be sued at a later date.

It remains undisputed that circumcision leads to better hygiene and can also be helpful in preventing some forms of cancer. Still, medical experts who provided consultation for the appeal told the court there was no "need in Central Europe to perform circumcisions as part of preventative health care." Even from a medical perspective, circumcision is largely a question of faith.

Only 11 Percent of German Boys Are Circumcised

Although common in the United States (where nearly 55 percent of boys are circumcised), the Muslim world, Israel and other places, the practice is far less prevalent in Europe. In Germany, the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KIGGS) found in its latest study in 2007 that 10.9 percent of boys between the ages of 0 and 17 had undergone a circumcision. Globally, the World Health Organization estimates that one-third of men are circumcised.

Germany is home to as many as 4 million Muslims and at least 105,000 Jews, and the tradition of circumcision is common within both faiths. It is unlikely that parents will simply abandon efforts to circumcise their children as a result of the ruling.

At times in the past, legal proceedings have been taken against individuals who have provided circumcisions in Germany without being medical professionals. In 2006, a Turkish pensioner was prosecuted and fined in Düsseldorf for performing circumcisions on boys. The man had based his defense on the fact that he had been respected for the circumcisions he had performed in his country of origin. In Turkey, circumcisions do not need to be carried out by doctors.


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 29 02:54:03 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
FGM is decried by people all over the world, but MGM is "traditional."

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team

Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jun 29 04:41:57 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jun 27 03:55:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The federation is fined, not the team.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team

Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jun 29 04:51:04 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German s-ccer fans chanting ''Sieg, Sieg'' with Hitler salutes; UEFA fines team, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jun 29 04:41:57 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
no one should be fined for fan behavior. especially a chant. of course you disagree.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Dave on Fri Jun 29 07:30:48 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 23:12:32 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I thought I read there was an exception but now I can't find it. Oh, well...wishful thinking, perhaps!

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Jun 29 07:42:13 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jun 28 21:21:44 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Lol!!!!!!! than how is that any different than cleaning under your arms or a a girl cleaning her vagina? Men are too dumb to bathe and clean their penis?

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Jun 29 07:45:09 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jun 29 02:54:03 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yeah its pretty f'ed up. I am not getting into religious customs....but the non-religious practice is really questionable. The person whos body it is doesnt have a say.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by Fred G on Fri Jun 29 07:48:55 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jun 28 21:21:44 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d


your pal,
Fred

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jun 29 12:02:39 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
What does HHS Kathy have to say about it in the USA?

Will they ban overpiercing of the body and unsightly tattoos too? Or will they only go after the minority religions of that country?

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jun 29 12:12:35 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jun 29 12:02:39 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
dem der meds are truly running low. ain't they?

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU's diplomats say that the ''Jewish state'' is *too Jewish*

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 2 06:23:51 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU's diplomats say that the ''Jewish state'' is *too Jewish*, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 20 14:49:06 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Hmm; guess this headline was just too scary.

Ain't that right?

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(EUEUEUEUEU) Germany willing to risk *global economic crisis* to get full hegemony over Europe

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 2 06:44:41 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
german-foreign-policy.com

All or Nothing

2012/06/25
Just days before the opening of the EU crisis summit at the end of the week, the German government is increasing its pressure on the crisis-ridden euro countries to surrender their national sovereignty. The German finance minister rudely rejected Italy's demands to receive the badly needed help, without having to concede its sovereignty. Germany recently turned down similar Spanish efforts. The measures are part of a comprehensive program to consolidate German hegemony over the continent, under the motto of converting the "European integration" into a state-like eurozone structure, based on the right of interference in national budgets of the economically weaker countries. Around the globe, the protest against Berlin's austerity dictate is growing, because the German government's power ploys are driving not only European crisis countries into impoverishment but are also threatening to critically damage the global economy. A failure of the German va-banque game could provoke even a serious setback for the German economy.

Time is Running Out

Just days before the special EU summit opens in Brussels, national antagonisms, fueled by the dynamics of the developing crisis, are escalating between the strongest European countries. Resistance to German austerity dictates is particularly growing stronger in countries, falling ever deeper into recession, because of these measures. Last Friday, Italian Prime Minster Mario Monti warned in reference to the upcoming summit that "we have a week to save the eurozone."[1] At the summit on June 28 and 29, the EU heads of states and governments with again discuss further measures for overcoming the crisis.

Fighting for Sovereignty

The recent exchange of blows began when Mario Monti demanded that the European Central Bank (ECB) massively buy bonds from the distressed Euro zone countries. According to Monti, the purchase should be automatically initiated as soon as the interest rate differential between Germany and the crisis countries exceeds a certain threshold. With this proposal, the Italian prime minister was hoping to achieve a containment of the Italian debt crisis, manifesting itself in rising interest rates and a prolonged recession. Through unlimited purchases of bonds, Rome would benefit from the falling interest rates and achieve a relaxation of the Italian debt crisis, without having to risk the loss of its national sovereignty, associated with the recourse to the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) rescue fund. According to Monti's game plan, the EFSF and European Stability Mechanism (ESM) rescue funds should "only protect" the ECB "against part of a possible loss due to the purchases," reported the business press.[2] German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble immediately criticized the proposal by pointing out that the European "rescue funds" already now can directly buy government bonds — but only if an "agreement has been reached on a corresponding adjustment program." Schäuble, therefore, insists on infringing on Italy's sovereignty.

Germany as Profiteer

The German-Italian episode is an example of the current front lines within the EU: Berlin is granting assistance only in exchange for the surrender of sovereignty, whereas the governments of the crisis countries are trying to limit these restrictions on their national sovereignty as much as possible. By heightening the pressure on countries to abdicate their sovereignty, Berlin willingly takes the risk of exacerbating the crisis. If the interest burden grows, time will be running out for Spain and Italy, because of the unacceptably high interest rates, they can "barely refinance themselves on the market," noted the business press.[3] For Germany however, the crisis is economically also very advantageous. In times of crisis, German government bonds are considered a "safe haven." Therefore, Berlin reported extremely low interest rates. In addition, the euro's value has sharply dropped in comparison to the value of other currencies, which in turn will benefit the German export industry. The Federal Republic has therefore no interest in changing the current constellation, which enables Germany to increase its economic preponderance over the rest of the eurozone — at least as long as the turmoil on the financial markets seems manageable. This is why, in Rome, last Friday, Chancellor Merkel again blocked serious measures aimed at stimulating economic growth. The announced stimulus package of €130 billion turned out to be a sham, based mainly on a reshuffling of the EU budget by simply relabeling already long planned investment funds, for example, from the EU's regional funds.

Global Protests

The ruthless instrumentalization of the crisis dynamics for the purpose of reinforcing its power, has provoked growing protests against Berlin in numerous countries, even outside of Europe. At the G-20 Summit in Mexico the "Germans, seen as bigoted and egotistical" were blamed for the escalation of the Euro crisis, according to an article in the German Spiegel-Online. "From US President Barack Obama all the way to the heads of governments of India, Brazil, Argentina, and Russia, there was only scathing condemnation of Merkel's policy, which is driving the global economy into a recession."[4] The conservative press sees Germany being cast in the role of the "crisis scapegoat," which is being mainly propagated by "Anglo-American politicians and media."[5] In fact, now even left-leaning liberal media organs, such as Britain's "New Statesman," have begun to sharply attack the German Chancellor. Just a few days ago, the magazine characterized Merkel as currently the most dangerous politician, who, with her "mania for austerity" is pushing the world "towards a new depression." A wide chasm has developed also between Washington and Berlin, because the escalation of the euro crisis is threatening the US economy and US President Barack Obama's chances of re-election. Merkel is also encountering growing opposition in Europe. France's newly elected President Hollande is seeking to build a common front with Rome and Madrid against Berlin. In mid-June, for example, the right-wing Spanish government accused Berlin, with unusual bluntness, of exacerbating the crisis. If Germany "throws one country to the wolves, that will affect everyone," warned Foreign Minister José Manuel Garcia-Margallo.[6]

Disempowerment of the Periphery

The European integration plans, just recently imposed on the EU primarily by Berlin, sheds light on why the German government would risk its isolation. The realization of these plans would transform the eurozone into a sort of state structure under German hegemony, shattering the very foundations of national sovereignty, at least, of the weaker eurozone countries. According to these plans, within the future eurozone state, the member countries will no longer be in a position to independently take out credit. All expenditures, not covered by autonomous revenue, must be requested from a central EU body. At EU level, this would "then be decided in common which country will be allowed how much in new debts," it was reported.[7] The "approval process" is to be supervised by representatives of the individual parliaments. In exchange, common European loans, the so-called euro bonds, will be issued — to finance the approved debts at the eurozone level. Until now, Berlin has rejected the idea of Euro Bonds, because they would lead to increased interests for German state credits. The new considerations, being propagated by various media organs, correspond to proposals made public in late May by the German ECB presidium member Jörg Asmussen. The USA's Wall Street Journal recently picked up this theme. It writes that the new European "steps toward integration" are part of a "shift" in German crisis policy. Berlin is sending "strong signals" that it would eventually be willing to "lift its objections to ideas such as common eurozone bonds" if other European governments were to "agree to transfer further powers to Europe."[8] In the New York Times, the economist Jacob Kirkegaard explains that "if German taxpayers are going to be liable for Italian debt, then they have to have some democratic say in how Italy runs its affairs and spends German money."[9] Berlin is aware that a renunciation of the disastrous austerity policy is economically necessary, but wants to do so only under complete German control. By way of the bureaucracy in Brussels, the German government is seeking nothing less than the direct supervision of the crisis countries' kernel of national sovereignty — their budget planning.

The Transfer Union

In fact, Berlin could use this means to consolidate its hegemony over Europe — imposed under the constraints of its economic pauperization strategy. Currently, Germany, due to its low budget deficits, would hardly be affected by these imposed limitations. It could use its enormously bloated current account surplus, accumulated over the past few years, to rehabilitate its own budget at the expense of the euro zone. The extremely accelerated, highly aggressive export orientation of the Federal Republic of Germany was made possible by the introduction of the euro, which removed the euro countries' possibility of devaluing their currency to defend their economies against German competition. The infamous German Hartz IV labor laws, introduced by the Social Democrat/Green coalition government, was an exports-favoring intensification — sinking German wage levels, in comparison to those of other euro countries. The German industry's export offensive — which, since the introduction of the euro, has accumulated a current account surplus of approximately €800 billion within the eurozone[10] — has decisively contributed to the debt crisis inside the eurozone. The German export industry, profiting from the precarious low-wage sector, has accumulated the current account surplus. This naturally corresponds to the deficits, particularly in the southern eurozone countries, some of which have entered a process of deindustrialization.

Possible Setback

Berlin's power ploys to consolidate its hegemony over Europe is not without risks, even for Germany itself. A glance at the most recent economic data shows possible dislocations. With their eurozone austerity dictate, the German government has allowed the German industry's most important export markets to dry up. Last month, German industrial export contracts dropped to their lowest point since April 2009, when Germany, along with the rest of the eurozone — and a large portion of the global economy — was suffering a deep recession. The purchasing manager index (PMI), which fell to a pre-recessional 48.5 points also indicates a sudden downturn. "In German enterprises, the opinion is gaining ground that the turbulence in the eurozone has already damaged business prospects for the second semester of 2012," explains the Markit Institute.[11] The IFO Business Climate Index, which records prognoses of German enterprises, sank in June, for the second month in a row.

Collateral Damage

The financial sector's instability is another risk factor. Germany's continued refusal to support the stimulation of economic activity with credit financing, is threatening an irreversible exacerbation of the euro crisis, in which a collapse of the financial system could plunge the entire global economy into a deep depression. The consequences could even surpass the dislocation of the socioeconomic established order following the global economic crisis of the 1930s. If it surpasses the breaking point of the already battered global finance system, such a cascade of crises would take on enormous speed and, at a certain point, render any effective countermeasures impossible. Even minor incidents, such as a breakdown in negotiations at the upcoming EU summit meeting, could trigger an irreversible shock. Berlin is playing an "all or nothing" power game. For the European crisis countries, nothing less than their national sovereignty is in jeopardy. For Germany, the stakes are on the consolidated hegemony over Europe. Berlin is even prepared to risk a global economic crisis of unfathomable dimensions as collateral damage.
[1] Mario Monti: we have a week to save the eurozone; www.guardian.co.uk 22.06.2012
[2] EZB soll für Euro-Retter Bonds aufkaufen; www.ftd.de 21.06.2012
[3] Spanien und Italien läuft die Zeit davon; www.handelsblatt.com 21.06.2012
[4] Drei gegen Deutschland; www.spiegel.de 22.06.2012
[5] Deutschlands neue Rolle als Krisen-Sündenbock; www.welt.de 11.06.2012
[6] Greek Election on Sunday Looms Large, whilst Rajoy Battles ECB for Loans; www.theleader.info 19.06.2012
[7] Der Traum vom neuen Europa; www.spiegel.de 12.06.2012
[8] Germany Signals Crisis Shift; online.wsj.com 03.06.2012
[9] German Rectitude Has Its Risks; www.nytimes.com 15.06.2012
[10] see also Die deutsche Transferunion
[11] Schlechte Stimmung in deutscher Industrie; www.ftd.de 21.06.2012



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Re: EUEUEUEUEU's diplomats say that the ''Jewish state'' is *too Jewish*

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jul 2 07:19:37 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU's diplomats say that the "Jewish state" is *too Jewish*, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 16 13:51:45 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Mohammad Darawshe, an Arab Israeli activist for the Jersualem-and-New-York-based NGO the Abraham Fund, told EUobserver Israeli laws give "some level of de jure protection" to Arab citizens' rights. But he said "de facto" discrimination is widening the economic gap between Arabs and Jews.

He added that right-wing Jewish groups are steering the country "downhill" in terms of civil liberties: "Israel's charter says it is 'Jewish' and 'democratic' but some Jews are trying to change the definition to make Jewishness the dominant factor."


Those statements aren't false, but the quote from Mark Regev that you quoted is true as well. That being said, since the number of Israelis who would like to engage in such an ethnic cleansing is an extremist minority, the EU ought to focus on issues within its own borders, such as the economy, instead of meddling in Israel's affairs.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU's diplomats say that the ''Jewish state'' is *too Jewish*

Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Jul 2 08:42:50 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU's diplomats say that the ''Jewish state'' is *too Jewish*, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 2 06:23:51 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
There's the UN guy that says that parts of Europe are 'too homongenous' and it must be changed. The question is, why now after so long? Secondly, I can guess all the races he's not talking about bringing to Europe. Thirdly, what of Africa, or Asia, including Palestine, Sudan, or Egypt? Should they be less homogenous?
What's with this werid obsession in Europe and the USA where people have to water down those folks who they feel is 'too white', even if they aren't actually white?
1
Although I saw that on BBC originally
2

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(EUEUEUEUEU) Rabbi condemns German court decision on circumcision as Nazism

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 3 07:02:33 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German court declares religious circumcision to be *criminal*, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 28 21:05:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
San Diego Jewish World

Germany’s circumcision decision smacks of Nazism

By Rabbi Michael Leo Samuel
CHULA VISTA, California — Since the end of the Second World War, Germany has come a long way in rehabilitating its past legacy of Nazism. Germany has proven itself as a good friend of Israel and the Jewish people. Germany has emerged as one of the most successful democratic countries of Europe. Jews have rebuilt their communities in many of Germany’s cities. I personally know many Holocaust survivors who have returned to Germany to receive keys to their cities and other honors. These are all meaningful steps; and most Jews do not believe that the children should have to suffer for the sins of the parents. However, our tradition warns us that children must never consciously or unconsciously follow their sinful parents’ poor example. George Santayana: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” I would paraphrase the citation a little differently: Those who fail to redeem the past, are condemned to relive it.

However, one thoughtless legal decision has threatened the wellbeing of Germany’s fledgling Jewish communities. On June 26th, 2012, the District Court of the Federal State of Cologne ruled that ritual circumcision for children as required by the parents, constitutes an infliction of bodily harm to the child, and is therefore—a criminal offense.

In bad economic times like we are witnessing in Europe today, it is easy for a country like Germany or other former Axis allies to revert to their history of xenophobic attitudes. One can be sure that the anti-Semites and Neo-Nazis will cheer this legal decision. The physicians at the Jewish Hospital in Berlin have already stopped performing circumcisions for fear of legal action.

For the German government, they need to ask themselves an important question: At what cost? Are they prepared to undo nearly sixty-five years of mending fences and good will? The German courts are entitled to past whatever legislation they want—so long as it does not affect the Jewish community. However, if this court’s decision is upheld by the higher courts, Germany will have taken one gigantic step backwards toward the realization of Hitler’s macabre dream—a Judenrein Germany (a Jew-free Germany).

The Jewish people have been practicing circumcision for nearly 4000 years, and the ritual has not prevented the Jew from being a progressive force for social change and democracy. In addition, circumcision has also helped prevent the spread of AIDS in Africa—no small achievement! A significant number of the Nobel Prize winners have been Jews; the Jewish people aim to make a positive difference to the world. Whenever there is a crisis in the world, the State of Israel is always there to lend its medical and scientific expertise—no matter who the afflicted country happens to be. Israel has produced numerous new medical technologies that have improved the quality of people’s lives.

The ritual of circumcision has never turned us into bloodthirsty monsters. We are not barbarians bereft of a moral conscience. It behooves the German government to act compassionately and justly toward its Jewish minority population.

The world will always have evil people capable of making other nations’ lives along with their fellow countrymen’s lives miserable. However, thoughtless people pose a far greater problem because the forces of tyranny subsist upon the thoughtlessness of their followers to obey their orders.

We need to let the German government know that their country still owes a moral debt to the victims of the Holocaust and their descendants. The best and simplest way to fulfill payment of this moral debt is to make sure the Jewish community remains a protected and respected minority in their country. When considering the great losses that our people have endured, this is a moral obligation the German people should feel proud to fulfill.


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Rabbi condemns German court decision on circumcision as Nazism

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 3 07:36:39 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) Rabbi condemns German court decision on circumcision as Nazism, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 3 07:02:33 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They should just drop the whole thing. If somebody wants a circumcision it's no skin off my dick.

your pal,
Fred

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(EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 7 20:58:23 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Where's Amnesty International?

The Local

Mayor designates parking spaces for men

Published: 7 Jul 12 13:10 CET
Calling himself a proponent of equal rights, the mayor of a small town in the Black Forest has designated special parking spaces in the municipal garage for men — because they're harder to get into.

Gallus Strobel, mayor of the town of Triberg, best known for its waterfalls and cuckoo clocks, has made headlines recently for his new parking garage policy.

Unlike the 12 spaces set aside for women, which are wider, well-lit, and closer to the exit, the men’s spaces require the driver to pull in at an angle, and avoid hitting cement pillars. They are an “attraction” for any ambitious driver, Strobel told the daily Süddeutsche Zeitung.

“But men are, as a rule, a little better at such challenges,” he told the paper.

Strobel, 58, who says he has parked in the spaces three times, admitted that “of course, there are also great women drivers!” He told the paper that when he came to the idea, he knew it would challenge “political correctness.” But he says he has received mostly positive feedback from his stunt.

Strobel said that the move was good advertising for his town, and that one man emailed him saying he would travel there just to test himself at parking.

Women, too, he says have put themselves to the challenge. “They are, of course, most welcome!” he told the paper.


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jul 7 21:21:36 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 7 20:58:23 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot

Posted by SLRT on Sun Jul 8 15:43:37 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 7 20:58:23 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Women don't want special parking spaces, they want a proportional number of public toilets to men, to eliminate lines.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jul 8 18:24:11 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) German mayor creates sex-segregated parking spaces in municipal parking lot, posted by SLRT on Sun Jul 8 15:43:37 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Heh. So how many urinals do they want in that case?

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EUEUEUEUEU is an empire—empires mean war

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 10 02:41:34 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The viewpoint of an historian from the Netherlands.

PressEurop — NRC Handelsblad

The EU is an empire, and empires mean war

9 July 2012

We are often told that the EU has brought peace to Europe. However, this view is not shared by historian Thierry Baudet, who provocatively argues that a process in which nation states give up their sovereignty inevitably results in conflict. That is why he recommends dissolving the euro and restoring national borders.

Partisans of the European project invariably argue that nationalism leads to war and while the development of Europe will safeguard peace — a noble objective that is more than sufficient compensation for any loss in democracy, sovereignty and transparency caused by Brussels. However, this theory is fundamentally flawed.

Nationalism does not lead to war. Attempts to build European empires lead to war. The urge to impose a straitjacket on the will of peoples leads to war. In short, the European project will lead to war.

Fascism and Nazism were both focused on the creation of Europe. As early as 1933, Mussolini declared that Europe could once again exert its power in the world if it succeeded in establishing a certain political unity.

Mussolini’s new Roman Empire

The Norwegian collaborationist Vidkun Quisling argued that we should create a Europe that does not waste its blood in murderous conflict, but one that is solidly united. And on 11 September 1940, Joseph Goebbels affirmed: I am certain that 50 years from now, we will no longer reason in terms of countries.

On 28 November 1941, in the course of a conversation with the Finnish minister of foreign affairs, Adolf Hitler remarked that the countries of Europe should obviously be together, like the members of a big family. In his authoritative study, Nations and States (1977), historian Hugh Seton-Watson, of the University of Oxford, concludes that Hitler’s intentions were not confined to what could be described as German nationalism.

His goal was to conquer all of Europe as well as a vast territory further afield. For his part, Mussolini wanted to found a new Roman Empire centered on the Mediterranean, while the Japanese were intent on building a Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere.

German racism was not an expression of nationalism. On the contrary, race transcends the national borders of the state, and racist theories are thus by definition international — rather than national — doctrines.

EU founding fathers

It is worth noting that until 17 July, 1940, Robert Schuman, one of the founders of the European project, was a Secretary of State for the Vichy regime, which collaborated with the Germans.

In 1938, as an MP representing Lorraine in the French parliament, he actively supported the Munich betrayal thus facilitating the annexation of part of Czechoslovakia by Hitler’s Germany. At the time, he also recommended that Mussolini and Hitler develop closer ties. On 10 July, 1940, Robert Schuman was among the MPs who supported Pétain when he took power.

Jean Monnet, another one of Europe’s founders, spent the war years in London where he attempted to prevent the broadcast of De Gaulle’s daily radio news bulletins (something he succeeded in doing on 20 and 21 June, 1940).

Setting aside the Second World War, “nationalism” is also blamed for starting the First World War. However, Germany’s goal in the the First World War was to impose the authority of a German empire over regions that were not German. It is also important to bear in mind that this particular war first broke out in the pan-national powder keg that was Austria-Hungary — a forerunner of the EU that refused to grant independence to Bosnian Serbs, which is why a group of “young Bosnians” plotted to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand in June 1914.

Political unity — a major source of tensions

Oppression exerted by a centralized regime is a source of tension, and one of the major lessons of the First World War was the “principle of self-determination” — most notably promoted by Woodrow Wilson, who advocated respect for different nationalities, arguing that they should not be dissolved and integrated in larger entities.

If we look further back in history, once again we see that it was not “nationalism” but imperialism and the desire to unify Europe that led to wars. Take for example the Napoleonic Wars. For the well-being of Europe, Napoleon wanted the same principles to apply throughout the continent: a European law, a high court of European justice, a common currency, the same units of measurement, the same laws, and so on. Napoleon expected that thereafter Europe would rapidly become a single united nation.

The idea that nationalism leads to war while European unification promotes peace is therefore false. And let’s not forget that Europe has not been at “peace” over the last 50 years. During most of that period, the countries of Europe were engaged in a fight to the death with the Soviet Union, which was once again the expression of yet another anti-national philosophy — in this case communism. As the Communist Manifesto insisted, “Working men have no country.”

As you might expect, today’s attempt to bring about political unity in Europe is a major source of tensions. The political landscape in virtually every country in Europe has now been marked by the emergence of increasingly powerful parties that are opposed to the established order.

Nationalism makes democracy possible

Distrust of the South is increasingly prevalent in Northern Europe, and vice-versa. Here again, it is not nationalism but the European project which is the source of the conflict. It follows that we should seek to create a Europe that is radically different to the current EU.

What we need is a Europe without a central regime: a Europe comprised of nation states, which are not afraid of national differences, and willing to cooperate with each other. The authority of nation states over their own borders should be restored, so that they themselves can decide who they want to allow in their territory.

In the service of their economic interest, they should opt for flexible visa regimes, which will nonetheless allow them to keep control of crime and immigration. We will also have to dissolve the euro to give nation states some monetary breathing space so that they can once again set their own interest rates in response to local conditions. Finally, we will have to get rid of harmonization, which undermines diversity.

Far from being a source of conflict, nationalism is the force that makes democracy possible. Without this unifying force, parliaments would be unable to take legitimate decisions. As the example of Belgium has shown, a lack of national unity can make the administration of a country extremely difficult. The irrational fear of nationalism could ultimately result in the establishment of a restrictive empire in Brussels. The time has come to call a halt and restore the nation state.


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EUEUEUEUEU forces Greece into "great depression"

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jul 22 18:51:17 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Reuters

Greece now in "Great Depression", PM says

Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:38am EDT
ATHENS (Reuters) — Greece is in a "Great Depression" similar to the American one in the 1930s, the country's Prime Minister Antonis Samaras told former U.S. President Bill Clinton on Sunday.

Samaras was speaking two days before a team of Greece's international lenders arrive in Athens to push for further cuts needed for the debt-laden country to qualify for further rescue payments and avoid a chaotic default.

Athens wants to soften the terms of a €130-billion bailout agreed last March with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund, to soften their impact on an economy going through its worst post-war recession.

By the end of this year Greek GDP is expected to have shrunk by about a fifth in five consecutive years of recession since 2008, hammered by tax hikes, spending cuts and wage reductions required by two EU/IMF bailouts. Unemployment climbed to a record 22.6 percent in the first quarter.

"You had the Great Depression in the United States," Samaras told Clinton, who was visiting Greece as part of a delegation of Greek-American businessmen. "This is exactly what we're going through in Greece — it's our version of the Great Depression."

Athens must reduce its budget deficit below 3 percent of GDP by the end of 2014, from 9.3 percent of GDP in 2011 — requiring almost another €12 billion in cuts and higher taxes on top of the €17 billion successive governments have cut from the budget shortfall.

Greece wants its lenders to give it two more years to achieve the budget goal to avoid an even deeper economic slump but its lenders have opposed the idea because it would imply even more financial aid.

Highlighting growing frustration with Athens, German magazine "Der Spiegel" reported on Sunday, citing high-ranking representatives in Brussels, that the IMF may not take part in any additional financing for Greece.

The German and Greek finance ministries declined to comment on the report, which suggested additional support required for Athens could range from €10-50 billion

No More

Officials have already indicated there would be a shortfall on the current bailout. How much is likely to depend on the extent by much Greece continues to miss its fiscal targets and the extent of support needed to keep its major banks afloat.

German economy minister Philipp Rösler told ARD public television he did not expect Greece could fulfill its requirements and that that would mean no more money to Athens.

"I am more than skeptical," Rösler, who is the head of the junior party in Germany's ruling coalition and often outspoken on eurozone issues, said in an interview.

"If Greece does not fulfill its requirements, there cannot be any more payments to Greece," added Rösler, whose views often do not reflect those of Chancellor Angela Merkel or Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble.

The inspection team of the international "troika" of the EU Commission, the IMF and the ECB will focus on the €11.7 billion of spending cuts Athens needs to take in 2013 and 2014.

Clinton criticized Greece's lenders for focusing excessively on austerity, saying Athens will be more likely to repay its debt if its manages economic recovery first.

"(It) is self-defeating… if every day people are saying this may or may not work to give us back 100 cents on the dollar, so give us more austerity today," he told Samaras.

"People need something to look forward to when they get up in the morning — young Greeks need something to believe in so they can stake their future out here," Clinton said.

(Reporting by Harry Papachristou in Athens, Markus Wacket and Annika Breidthardt in Berlin; editing by Patrick Graham)


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU forces Greece into ''great depression''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jul 22 19:06:30 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU forces Greece into "great depression", posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jul 22 18:51:17 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yay for those deficit hawks and supply-siders. THIS is how it works. :(

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU forces Greece into ''great depression''

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Jul 22 20:41:47 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU forces Greece into "great depression", posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jul 22 18:51:17 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, by insisting on austerity, aka, massive cuts in govt. spending.

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(EUEUEUEUEU) Germany less likely than ever to ban neo-Nazi party NPD

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 23 19:22:41 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
. . . and not primarily because of the alleged screwups (or not) of the BfV. Mostly because the German Constitutional Court keeps protecting neo-Nazis.

Der Spiegel

07/23/2012
Domestic Intelligence Scandal

Effort to Ban Far-Right NPD More Unlikely than Ever

A bid to ban Germany's far-right National Democratic Party looks more unlikely than ever due to the file-shredding scandal that has rocked the country's domestic intelligence agency. Bumbling in the investigation into a right-wing terror cell has cost the agency its credibility, an ally of Chancellor Merkel has warned.

The scandal surrounding the shredding of secret service files relating to right-wing extremists will make efforts to ban the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) even more difficult, a lawmaker said on Monday.

Hans-Peter Uhl, a security policy expert for the conservative Christian Social Union (CSU), the Bavarian sister party of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union, said the agency's credibility had been weakened by the affair, and that any evidence it presents against the NPD will be more assailable as a result.

He told Berliner Zeitung newspaper on Monday that the NPD's lawyers will seize on the destruction of files to cast doubt on the reliability of the findings of the domestic intelligence agency, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution.

"The material the agency would present to the Federal Constitutional Court in proceedings to outlaw the NPD is of course more vulnerable than before," Uhl said. "It makes a case even more unlikely than it was already. It is as good as finished. No one is seriously pursuing it anymore."

Germany launched a push to outlaw the NPD late last year amid a public uproar over right-wing extremism following the chance discovery in November that a neo-Nazi terrorist cell, the National Socialist Underground (NSU), murdered at least nine small businessmen of mostly Turkish background and one policewoman since between 2000 and 2007.

The agency's president, Heinz Fromm, resigned this month after it was revealed that an official shredded several files on his own initiative relating to informants in the right-wing scene just days after the NSU cell was discovered.

It has since emerged that a further six files from secret wiretapping operations were destroyed last November on instructions from the Interior Ministry. The files did not pertain directly to the terrorist network, but the admission and the timing of the deletions raised fresh questions about the agency's professionalism and the effectiveness of its leaders.

Major Hurdles to NPD Ban

Germany's security and law enforcement authorities have come under fire for a series of gaffes and a lack of coordination after failing to catch the killers for over a decade, and there have been calls for a fundamental reform of the system.

The very existence of the NSU was unknown until last November, when two of its members, Uwe Mundlos and Uwe Böhnhardt, committed suicide after a botched bank robbery and a wealth of evidence was discovered in their apartment in the eastern town of Zwickau. The third member of the group, Beate Zschäpe, is in custody.

Analysts of the far-right scene say the NPD has neo-Nazis among its members and links with extremist groups. But legal experts warn that outlawing the NPD, described by authorities as racist, revisionist, hostile to the constitution and sympathetic to National Socialism, would be a long-winded and difficult process, and may fail.

A previous bid to ban the NPD failed in 2003 when the Federal Constitutional Court threw out the case. The intelligence services, the court argued, had informants in the party's leadership, which meant that government agents were helping to shape the NPD's policies. That made it impossible to consider the case.

The German government is determined that a fiasco like the one in 2003 cannot be repeated under any circumstances. In preparation for a new ban attempt, the national and regional governments in Germany have severed ties with informants in the NPD's leadership. Their aim is to prove that the NPD poses a threat to the democratic constitution.

The NPD has said it will file a suit with the European Court of Human Rights against a ban.

cro — with wire reports


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Germany less likely than ever to ban neo-Nazi party NPD

Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jul 24 05:37:07 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) Germany less likely than ever to ban neo-Nazi party NPD, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 23 19:22:41 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Thank you, Reagan.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Germany less likely than ever to ban neo-Nazi party NPD

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 24 05:41:39 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Germany less likely than ever to ban neo-Nazi party NPD, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jul 24 05:37:07 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Gorbachev tore down that wall and gave him Merkel. :)

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 1 13:40:17 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 08:26:38 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Face the fact that a share of the population lacks what it takes to master even this basic skill set

Bullshit.

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EUEUEUEUEU "Grand Area" to expand German hegemony beyond Europe

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 1 14:18:18 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
GFP

In the EU's "Grand Area"

2012/07/26
A European think tank with ties to Germany is calling for the establishment of an EU-controlled "Grand Area" stretching from the Arctic through Central Asia and the Middle East to North Africa. With this "Grand Area," the "Group on Grand Strategy" (GoGS) seeks to create a power base for a European Federal State that it considers necessary to establish. This "Grand Area" should also serve European interests in resources and deter foreign powers from meddling. This concept, which corresponds in many ways to German interests, also includes the establishment within the "Grand Area" of a network of "European" military bases, which therefore would be outside any national control. The Bertelsmann Foundation, one of the most influential German think tanks, also has a representative on the GoGS Advisory Board. Within the Foundation, that political scientist's work is centered on the theme "Europe's future."

Liberal Order

The "Grand Area" plan was elaborated by James Rogers, one of the co-founders of the Group on Grand Strategy (GoGS). In his comprehensive paper "A new Geography of European Power?", Rogers makes a plea for the EU to take control over such a "Grand Area." European military and civilian forces should regularly intervene to arrest "disorders" and insure a "liberal order." According to Rogers, the "Grand Area" should "show the least likelihood of significant encroachment by powerful foreign actors" and should be defended "most cost-effectively through the expansion of the Common Security and Defense Policy."1 The "Grand Area" covers all of Europe, including Iceland and Greenland, and stretches to Central Asia and parts of South East Asia all the way to the Middle East and North Africa. For the most part, the map is oriented along current internationally-recognized, borders; however, in the case of Russia, it dissects its national territory.

70° East

James Rogers draws the eastern border of the "Grand Area" as a line running from the Pakistani-Indian border along the Sino-Kazakh border, the West Siberian Ishim, north to the Arctic Ocean. The North Siberian Yamal gas fields, which are among the largest in the world, are specifically tagged as part of the EU controlled "Grand Area." The small Russian town of Ishim is located at 69° East longitude. Not far away, along the 70° East longitude, was where the Nazis had drawn the line demarcating fascist Germany's spheres of interests from those of its ally, the Japanese empire.

Group on Grand Strategy

The Group on Grand Strategy, which published the "Grand Area" planning, was founded in the Summer of 2011 to prevent — according to its manifesto — the "wane" of European power, in the wake of "the world's geopolitical and geo-economic … world power shift[ing] towards the eastern half of Eurasia — and the Pacific rim in particular."2 They seek to become a "platform and a home for a new generation of European strategic thinkers" and advance self-defined "European interests" in public discourse. They particularly seek to promote a discussion on a "European Grand Strategy." The GoGS qualifies, in its own Manifesto, its project as "adventurous."3 Among the members of the group's advisory board is the political scientist Stefani Weiss, a Bertelsmann Foundation employee, covering the theme "Europe's Future," for the foundation, while also holding the post of assistant director of the Atlantik-Brücke. In April 2012, Walter Posch was the first employee of the chancellery-financed German Institute for International and Security Affairs (SWP) to publish a GoGS article.

Germany: "Terrestrial Power"

In GoGS publications, Germany is explicitly characterized as a "terrestrial power" that clings "tenaciously" to a "Bismarckian terrestrial strategy."4 This strategy, aimed at winning continental influence, nevertheless poses a danger to the "maritime powers" Great Britain and France, according to one of the reports. The strategist of the GoGS, Luis Simón, a former Volkswagen Foundation fellow, warns that a future "German-Russian axis" could develop, but "for the moment", Germany is clinging to the EU. However, Simón adds that the "British-American Power" in the Baltic — meaning the partially close collaboration between the Baltic countries and Poland with the USA and Great Britain — is preventing a more elaborate German-Russian rapprochement. According to the author, over the next few years, Great Britain will reinforce its influence in Eastern Europe, to make a rapprochement between Berlin and Moscow more difficult.5 As a matter of fact, British troops have been permanently stationed in the Czech Republic since 2000, where they carried out the United Kingdom's largest airborne maneuvers in 2010. James Rogers adds that a German renunciation of the "Atlantic Alliance" would renew the rivalry between Berlin and London, and "history has shown that nothing good can come of that."6

Georgia

Rogers, the GoGS's main writer, pointed to two countries to be considered for locating EU military bases. Germany is already seeking to intensify its influence with both. One is Georgia, a country of great geostrategic significance because of its position as a transport corridor between Central Asia and Europe as well as its common border with the unstable south of Russia. The EU has its European Monitoring Mission (EUMM) in Georgia. For the first three years (2008-2011), the EUMM had been headed by German diplomat Hansjörg Haber. Twenty German Federal Police officers, along with an approximately similar number of German civilians, including decommissioned military officers, are in operation. These EU troops have been accused repeatedly of being partisan in the Caucasus conflicts. In addition, the Bundeswehr is working directly with Georgia, regularly training Georgian officers. Great Britain and the USA also have military advisers in the country.

Caspian Sea

Turkmenistan is another location being considered for a EU military base, according to the "Grand Area" strategists. This country, which has enormous natural gas deposits, cooperates very closely with China in the energy sector, but recently it has repeatedly made overtures toward the EU and NATO. President Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov, for example, took part in a NATO summit meeting in 2008. Last year, NATO representatives visited the Turkmen capital, Ashgabat. For years, its local airport has been a transport hub for fuel deliveries to the western occupation troops in Afghanistan. This year, it became known that Turkmenistan will buy patrol boats from Turkey and intends to build a new naval base at the Caspian Sea. In 2007, the US Marines signed a secret cooperation agreement with its Turkmen counterpart. Germany is also seeking to strengthen its influence in the country, although mainly at the economic level. In 2011, Siemens and Mercedes Benz signed major contracts with Turkmenistan. Germany is among that country's most important development aid providers. During a visit to the country in November 2011, German Foreign Minister, Westerwelle reached an accord with the Turkmen dictator, Berdimuhamedov, on the expansion of bilateral relations in sectors of politics, economy, culture, and sciences.

Carl Schmitt

The term "Grand Area" used by the GoGS had once been popularized by the "Third Reich's Crown Jurist" Carl Schmitt in his 1939 book "Völkerrechtliche Großraumordnung und Interventionsverbot für raumfremde Mächte: Ein Beitrag zum Reichsbegriff im Völkerrecht."7 In this work, Schmitt postulated that the "principle of non-interference by powers foreign to the realm is a valid international legal principle," which was supposed to secure sole access for Germany to all countries in Europe. To show the success of his Grand Area theory, Schmitt used the example of Rumania. As critics point out, Rumania was integrated into the German "Great Area" at the "expense of its natural resources and economic substance."8 The Group on Grand Strategy is obviously also demanding that the countries within the "Great Area" surrender their wealth to the advantage of Germany and the EU.
  1. James Rogers: A New Geography of European Power?, Brüssel 2011
  2. see also Europe's Decline (II), Europas Abstieg (III) and Das pazifische Jahrhundert
  3. Group on Grand Strategy: Manifesto, grandstrategy.eu.
  4. James Rogers; Luis Simón: Three geographies — and societies: The European Union's enduring problem, Group on Grand Strategy — Strategic Snapshot Nr. 2, 01.12.2011
  5. Luis Simón: Britain-France: a new agency for the neo-West? europeangeostrategy.ideasoneurope.eu 20.02.2012
  6. "Britain will never accept German leadership"; europeangeostrategy.ideasoneurope.eu 19.01.2012
  7. Carl Schmitt: Völkerrechtliche Großraumordnung mit Interventionsverbot für raumfremde Mächte — Ein Beitrag zum Reichsbegriff im Völkerrecht, Berlin 1991
  8. Dietrich Eichholtz: Brüchiges Bündnis; Junge Welt 22.04.2010



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(EUEUEUEUEU) Italian newspaper calls EU "Fourth Reich"

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 8 01:28:02 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Worldcrunch referencing Il Giornale

Berlusconi Newspaper Says Italy, Europe Now Under 'Fourth Reich'

August 3rd, 2012 – 11:08
Italian daily newspaper Il Giornale chose a deeply provocative headline for Friday's front page: 'Quarto Reich' — Fourth Reich, to comment on Germany's refusal to give the European Central Bank more leeway.

Il Giornale is a right-wing newspaper owned by Silvio Berlusconi's brother Paolo. "Since yesterday, Italy is no longer in Europe, it is in the Fourth Reich," writes the newspaper's editor-in-chief, Alessandro Sallusti, who writes that Germany has won, but Italy, Europe and the euro have lost after European Central Bank chief Mario Draghi.

Sallusti also says Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti has been defeated, after being "led around for months by the Germans and their false promises." Meanwhile, Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank has lost, had to "bow to the will of Angela Merkel."

In the First Reich, writes Sallusti, "the German head of state also had the title of Emperor of Rome," while two world wars and millions of deaths were not enough to appease the German hegemonic ambitions in the next two Reichs. History repeats itself, "not with cannons, but with the euro." The Germans want Italians and other Europeans to give up and hand over power to the "new Kaiser(in), Angela Merkel."

"The problem," Sallusti concludes, is that nobody is reacting.

A somewhat more neutral commentator, Allen Mattich of the Wall Street Journal, instead sees Draghi's reaction Thursday as the best option in a tricky situation, "to buy the single currency two or three years; enough time for Europe’s politicians to hammer out the fiscal union."


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(EUEUEUEUEU) Neo-Nazi flash mobs plaguing Germany

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 18 14:16:32 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
NY Daily News

Neo-Nazi flash mobs strike German cities, aim to become 'immortal' on YouTube

The racist group takes to the streets at night carrying torches. They organize via text message so that authorities won’t know where they’ll appear next.

By Anthony Bartkewicz AND Braden Goyette / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 11:25 AM
Updated: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 2:16 PM
A German neo-Nazi group has been harnessing 21st century technology to stage terrifying flash-mob protests that echo the fascist torch rallies of the 1930s — and then make them go viral.

In a demonstration on May 1st in Bauzen, Germany, hundreds of black-clad figures with white masks suddenly converged in a street carrying torches and signs with extreme nationalist slogans, then dissipated before a major police presence could arrive, according to Germany's Die Zeit newspaper.

The scene evokes the days of the Third Reich, when the Nazi SA would march with torches held high during night rallies as they saluted Hitler, according to Die Zeit.

A group calling themselves 'Die Unsterblichen' (The Immortals) has been orchestrating these kinds of flash mobs in cities all over Germany for the past several months, according to CNN. Several videos of their spontaneous protests can be found on YouTube, some of them with tens of thousands of views.

Most of the videos end with a chilling slogan — 'Make your short life immortal,' or 'So that those to come don't forget that you were German.'

The high-tech mob organizes their marches via text message so authorities don’t know where they’ll turn up next, CNN reported. The group's website encourages others to organize similar flash mob demonstrations, in order to 'become immortal.'

The group uses an outdated word — 'Volkstod' — on their signs, the newspaper noted, intentionally hearkening back to the days of the national socialism. It's a turn of phrase that neo-Nazis use to describe what they perceive as the degradation of the German race taking place under democratic government.

A Neo-Nazi group in the state of Brandenburg called 'Spreelichter' first came up with the idea of organizing flash mob protests in 2009, according to Die Zeit. The group was banned by state authorities earlier this summer.

The homes of more than a dozen known neo-Nazis have been raided by police in hopes of finding the group’s central leadership — if there is any to be found.

Dr. Hajo Funke, a professor at the Free University of Berlin, told CNN he believes the Immortals are hoping to attract young people to their cause with the dramatic and viral displays.

“It’s a very simple idea: Put masks on your faces and represent the danger to the people,” he told CNN.


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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Neo-Nazi flash mobs plaguing Germany

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 14:56:50 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) Neo-Nazi flash mobs plaguing Germany, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 18 14:16:32 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Part of the fuel for these Neo-Nazis is that Turkey is being considered for EU membership. In the 1960's many Turks were allowed to come to the (then) West Germany, to work in the VW and other industries. They were never fully assimilated and the Germans now fear that their country will be flooded with Muslim Turks, if EU membership is granted. By the way, you can always tell a German house from a Turkish one. The Germans have cable TV and the Turks use satelite dishes.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Neo-Nazi flash mobs plaguing Germany

Posted by Easy on Sat Aug 18 14:59:42 2012, in response to Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) Neo-Nazi flash mobs plaguing Germany, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 18 14:56:50 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
you can always tell a German house from a Turkish one. The Germans have cable TV and the Turks use satelite dishes.

Works here as well, but don't forget the chicken bones! :)

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