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Re: EUEUEUEUEU economy controlled by Bundesbank (''secret dictator'')

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jun 10 02:23:07 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU economy controlled by Bundesbank ("secret dictator"), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 10 01:23:42 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Oh ... and here's the game:

http://www.qwmagazine.com/2012/06/08/occupy-europe-the-euro-collapse-is-a-goldman-sachs-scheme-to-bag-eu-banks-for-a-song/

Written by a CONSERVATIVE MP, so you know it's mmm-mmm-good! :)

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(948619)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU economy controlled by Bundesbank (''secret dictator'')

Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 10 07:32:20 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU economy controlled by Bundesbank (''secret dictator''), posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jun 10 02:23:07 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
MMM,Yummy.

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(949143)

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EUEUEUEUEU "bailout" (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 11 15:07:02 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Associated Press

Jun 11, 2:53 PM EDT

Spain bank rescue glee morphs into markets rout

DANIEL WOOLLS
Associated Press
MADRID (AP) — Euphoria over a lifeline of up to €100 billion ($125 billion) to rescue Spain's hurting banks morphed into a financial markets rout in a matter of hours Monday, as investors digested the still-undefined plan and became concerned the country may be unable to repay the new loans.

The rate on Spanish 10-year bonds — a measure of market trust in a country's ability to repay debt — rose to an alarmingly high yield of 6.47 percent at the close of trading after falling to 6 percent in the morning. And the benchmark IBEX-35 stock index closed down 0.5 percent after surging 6 percent in the morning.

Overshadowing Spain's acceptance over the weekend of a bailout for banks burdened by toxic property assets and loans are Greek elections next weekend and concerns that the anti-bailout left-wing party Syriza could become the largest party in parliament, putting the country's membership in the zone at risk.

Investors also zeroed in on Italy, sending its bond yields sharply higher amid worries it could be next in line for a bailout because of a deepening recession and increasing pressure on the administration of Premier Mario Monti. And Spain's economy is in terrible shape with no sign of improvement anytime soon.

"Plenty of risk still remains in place, with question marks over the ability of Spain to repay the debt, especially, if the country fails to get back on the growth path, the outcome of the upcoming Greek elections and the perception of situation in Italy," Anita Paluch of Gekko Global Markets wrote in a note to clients.

Spain's bond yield is worrisome because it is perilously close the 7 percent rate that is considered unsustainable, and the level that pushed Greece, Ireland and Portugal to ask for bailouts of their government finances. While Spain's bailout does not include the government, investors are worried that Spain might eventually be forced into such a situation.

The rescue for Spain's banks was portrayed by Spanish and European officials as a bid to contain Europe's widening recession and financial crisis that have hurt companies and investors around the world. Providing a financial lifeline to Spanish banks was designed to relieve anxiety on the economy.

Finance ministers of the 17 nations that use the euro said Saturday they would make the loan of up to €100 billion available to the Spanish government to prop up banks laden with non-performing loans and other toxic assets after the collapse of a real estate bubble.

Recession-hit Spain, which has the eurozone's fourth-largest economy, has yet to say how much of this money it will tap while it waits for the results of two independent audits of the country's banking industry, not due until June 21 — after the Greek elections. The bailout loans will be paid into the Spanish government's Fund for Orderly Bank Restructuring (FROB), which would then use the money to strengthen the country's teetering banks.

In a report released late last week, the International Monetary Fund estimated Spain needs around €40 billion to prop up banks hurting from an unprecedented real estate boom that went bust.

Worried investors still don't know precisely how much Spain will seek, and how large a safety margin of extra money it might take to cushion itself against further shocks, such as a deterioration in the economy already in its second recession in three years with unemployment of nearly 25 percent, the highest in the eurozone.

"Markets will certainly ask the question about whether a second bailout might be required and the margin for error between the sort of euro40 billion the IMF is saying and the €100 billion ceiling in terms of what we heard," said Mark Miller of Capital Economics in London.

He added that with the bailout, Spain's debt-to-gross domestic product ratio — which was a relatively low 68.5 percent at the end of last year — could shoot up to the 90s next year. And bond yields will remain high.

If the ratio gets up to Greek levels of 120 percent or so, and 10-year yields close in on the near-7-percent levels Spain hit several weeks ago "then people will ask that question about a second bailout" for Spain, Miller said.

Another issue is whether the European money comes with strings attached for the government, and not just an obligation for banks to restructure. When the bailout was announced on Saturday, Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos said the rescue would not force any new austerity measures on a government that has already issued a wave of painful measures since taking power in December.

Speaking to reporters Sunday, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy avoided using the term `bailout' to describe the aid, calling it instead a credit line without the strict austerity conditions that have accompanied bailouts for Greece, Portugal and Ireland.

However, the European Union made clear Monday the money is more than just a loan. Besides being paid back with interest, there will be conditions for the Spanish government.

"When people lend money, they never do it for free. They want to know what is done with the money," said Joaquin Almunia, the European Competition Commissioner.

"I am not talking about just the obligation to pay back the money, but also some other kind of terms," he told Cadena Ser radio, adding that these remain to be determined.

Spain's economy ministry released a statement later saying the package includes "the necessary conditionality for the financial sector" but requires new fiscal consolidation or structural reforms beyond those the government has already embarked on.

The loan will be supervised by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF, Almunia said.

A European Commission spokesman, Amadeu Altafaj, told Spanish state television that this troika will have people on the ground overseeing the restructuring of the Spanish financial sector. Representatives of the same three groups regularly visit Greece, Ireland and Portugal to make sure the governments in those nations are complying with bailout terms,

Altafaj noted that the European Commission last month recommended Spain undertake further reforms such as speeding up the phasing of a higher retirement age — it is to go from 65 to 67 — and raise VAT sales tax. The newspaper El Pais quoted EU officials Monday as saying these changes and others are part of the conditions that come with the bank rescue package.

Adding to the gloomy mood on Monday, the Fitch Ratings agency downgraded the credit rating of Spain's two largest international banks Banco Santander SA and Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria SA from A to BBB+.

The agency said the reasons for the downgrade were primarily because Spanish credit rating was downgraded to two notches above junk last week, because of a fresh forecast that Spain's faltering economy will remain in recession into 2013 "compared to the previous expectation that the economy would benefit from a mild recovery in 2013."

Banco Santander and BBVA are seen as immune from needing help from Spain's bank bailout because profits from their international operations have buffered their Spain losses. But Fitch also said they could be affected by any downturn that affects operations outside Spain. Both are big players in Latin America.

"Growth prospects for emerging markets in which Santander and BBVA subsidiaries operate have been revised down and they are not entirely immune to global economic trends but earnings from these markets will continue to contribute significantly to group earnings at both institutions," Fitch said in a statement.

Harold Heckle and Alan Clendenning in Madrid contributed to this report.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 12 09:31:54 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU "bailout" (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 11 15:07:02 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
At least people are starting to realize the limits of government trying to manipulate economies.

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(949364)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 09:36:57 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU "bailout" (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 11 15:07:02 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Wait a minute. Smaz said that this is why the stock market rallied last week when I claimed it was reaction to the Wisconsin "recall" vote.



Could Smaz have been so wrong???


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(949555)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 12 17:37:07 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 09:36:57 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Trolls like that think that these kind of geopolitical changes are just a big joke. Until it affects them personally.

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(949560)

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(EUEUEUEUEU) Italy next for the "bailout" loan sharks

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 12 17:43:15 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Business Insider

Why Italy Is Next In The Line Of Fire

Marc Chandler, Marc to Market | Jun. 12, 2012, 5:30 AM
There is a perverse logic unfolding. Spain is the fourth of the eurozone members to require external assistance. Cyprus is likely to be next, especially if Russia does not come to its aid as it did last year with a $2.5 billion loan.

That leaves the Italy as the last of southern debtor countries to be standing on its own in the face of end of a global credit cycle. Italy's problem is not a deficit. It is likely to be near 4% this year. It is also only debtor to be running a primary budget (excluding debt servicing costs) surplus.

The challenge stems from the accumulation of prior deficits. Its debt is approximately €2 trillion. The refinancing costs require it to borrow something on the scale of €35 billion a month by selling bonds and bills. The market's appetite is waning and even the head of Debt Agency warned last week that foreign investors are pulling back from the auctions.

Ironically, Italian banks appear to have accumulated Italian bonds faster than the government has been issuing, suggesting they are also absorbing foreign sales. Italy holds a bill sale on Wednesday and a bond sale on Thursday. Yields have backed up sharply in recent days, but it is unlikely to be sufficient to appease international investors given the current environment and ahead of the Greek elections.

The initial momentum of technocrat prime minister Monti has faded. He secured €20 billion in savings quickly, but his reforms in pensions, services and labor markets appear to have been diluted. There is no doubt he has helped shift the agenda in Europe towards both more growth measures and greater integration. However important he is on the European stage, his ability to shape the post-Berlusconi Italy appears limited.

There is little room to maneuver. The ECB's monetary policy is too tight for a country that contracted, as Italy did by 0.8% in Q1. That is an annualized pace of greater than 3% Households cut spending by 1% and exports fell 0.6%. More recent data from Q2 shows the contraction shows no signs of abating. And interest rates are rising to boot. Italian yields have actually risen more than Spanish yields over the past week and month.

Italy did not experience a housing market bubble, like Spain and Ireland. Besides its past deficits (can we call them legacy costs?), Italy is weighed down by—Italy's ultimate problem is simply its lack of economic vigor. Its growth has trailed the European Union average for the past decade. It does have an significant industrial sector that generates a third the country's GDP, but the incentive structures are so tilted toward rent-seeking behavior that it squeezes out the space for profit-seeking entrepreneurs.

Unlike in Spain and Ireland, where the private debts (banks) became public, in Italy's case the public debt appears to be the major drag on the banks. In Italy's case, the LTRO increased the exposure of vulnerable banks to a vulnerable sovereign.

At the start of the year, I had anticipated Spain taking over the role of lightning rod from Italy, which had served the role in the second half of 2011. I am concerned now that even if the deal with Spain is insufficient, that Rubicon has been or will be shortly crossed. Italy will come under closer scrutiny.


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(949562)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Rockparkman on Tue Jun 12 17:43:23 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 12 09:31:54 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
What we REALLY need is to take all the Nazis and send them to Alaska to mine gold so the US can go back on the Gold Standard. Yeah, man REAL money.

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(949610)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:20:53 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 12 09:31:54 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Correction: this is the kind of result you get when constantly remove the powers of government until it's no longer able to help.

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(949612)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:22:33 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 09:36:57 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Why would the stock market care about the recall vote in one state?

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(949618)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 19:33:28 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:20:53 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
And Goldman Sachs manipulating the result with no oversight.

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(949619)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 19:33:52 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:22:33 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Because Hannity sez so. :)

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(949623)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:39:40 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 19:33:28 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Oh, but big corporations are not like big government, they are A-OK! Even when they fail, it's because government had a hand in it!

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(949624)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 19:40:48 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:39:40 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
And no matter how big they screw it up, it's up to the middle class taxpayer to bail their asses out because it's not their fault. :)

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(949625)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:41:10 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 19:33:52 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
He certainly has a bigger mouth that Warren Buffett, that's for sure :-).


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(949627)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 19:45:03 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:41:10 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Somebody has to dispense truth, justice and the American way ... :)



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(949658)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:14:07 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 19:22:33 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Had Walker lost the recall vote it would be clear to Wall St. that the policies of the big spending liberals were predominant. The fact that the lunatics of the left lost sends a message to investors that there is hope for economic stability which is a friendlier environment for investing.

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(949662)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 20:21:27 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:14:07 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
But that only showed how one state of one country felt. Though it was a loss for the Democrats, it didn't necessarily reflect how, say, New York or California will vote come November. OTOH, there are upheavals which can make or break whole countries going on right now, which would have huge impacts on the global corporations being traded in the stock market.

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(949664)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:26:28 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 20:21:27 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The same, albeit less dramatic results were seen in other state elections and will likely be seen in November. As for the foreign bailouts, I think that the saner powers that be are beginning to see that based on the extent of and the size of the bailouts throughout europe, that it's all a house of cards - one that will be falling quite soon.


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(949670)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Rockparkman on Tue Jun 12 20:37:01 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:26:28 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Which is why we need a comprehensive system of financial markets regulation which is both pervasive and global so the RATS cannot hide.
Free markets mean an enslaved middle class.

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(949671)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 20:37:31 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:26:28 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Certainly, we're heading towards something big in Europe. I think we're going to see countries dropping the euro and going with their own currencies, IMO.

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(949672)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 12 20:38:52 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:14:07 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
What is so unfriendly about the environment for investing right now?

your pal,
Fred

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(949674)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:41:38 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 20:37:31 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
well, if you recall, that was my point. Smaz said the bailout of Spain was the impetus for the small rally on Wall St. I disagreed.

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(949676)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:42:46 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 12 20:38:52 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
In one word, uncertainty. If you want a few others. "Lack of Leadership" but mostly uncertainty.

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(949683)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:00:59 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:41:38 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
It was understandable that the bailout in Spain could have started a rally, since that meant the EU was actually doing something to prevent Spain from collapsing. Whether that will be enough - well, that question is what caused the drop. The effects and magnitude of what's happening in Europe and Asia have a much more significant and immediate impact than the recall election of the governor of one state, esp. since national elections are months away.

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(949687)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 21:05:28 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:00:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The rally started on Wednesday. The rumors of the bailout didn't begin to be heard until late Thursday. Besides, it is not reasonable to believe that the same people would be happy about the bailout on Friday and go into a selling panic on Monday over the very same news.

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(949698)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:34:06 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 21:05:28 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Wednesday rose because of anticipation of the Fed: link

Thursday had news about China taking action, among other things: link

Friday, it was Fed inaction and caution about Spain's bailout, which had not been worked out yet: link

Monday, too uncertainty about the bailout as investors heard more details: link

So yeah, there are much bigger concerns on the minds of investors than Scott Walker. Welcome to the global economy.

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(949703)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 21:42:31 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:34:06 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
But ... but ... but ... his conservative common-taters insisted that breaking the backs of workers doubles your money! ;)

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(949705)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:44:34 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 21:42:31 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Depends on who "your" is referring to :-).


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 21:49:27 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:44:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Being a republican is like playing Lotto ... you honestly believe you'll get some if you keep dropping trou. :)

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(EUEUEUEUEU) Germany doesn't learn from history, pushes Europe to brink (just like 1931)

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 12 21:57:17 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Der Spiegel

06/12/2012
The Perils of Ignoring History

This Time, Europe Really Is on the Brink

A Commentary by Niall Ferguson and Nouriel Roubini

The European Union was created to avoid repeating the disasters of the 1930s, but Germany, of all countries, has failed to learn from history. As the euro crisis escalates, Berlin should remember how the banking crisis of 1931 contributed to the breakdown of democracy across Europe. Action is urgently needed to stop history from repeating itself.

Is it one minute to midnight in Europe?

The failure of German public opinion to grasp the dire state of affairs in Europe today is inviting a repeat of precisely the crisis of the mid-20th century that European integration was designed to avoid.

With every increase in the probability of a disorderly Greek exit from the monetary union, the pressure on the Spanish banks increases and with it the danger of a Mediterranean-wide bank run so big that it would overwhelm the European Central Bank. Already there has been a substantial re-nationalization of the European financial system. This centrifugal process could easily continue to the point of complete disintegration.

We find it extraordinary that it should be Germany, of all countries, that is failing to learn from history. Fixated on the non-threat of inflation, today's Germans appear to attach more importance to the year 1923 (the year of hyperinflation) than to the year 1933 (the year democracy died). They would do well to remember how a European banking crisis two years before 1933 contributed directly to the breakdown of democracy not just in their own country but right across the European continent.

Astonishingly, few Europeans (including bankers) seem to remember what happened in May 1931 when Creditanstalt, the biggest Austrian bank, had to be bailed out by a government that was itself on the brink of insolvency. The ensuing European bank crisis, which saw the failure of two of Germany's biggest banks, ushered in the second half of the Great Depression. If the first half had been dominated by the American stock market crash, the second was all about European banks going bust.


What happened next? The banking crisis was followed by President Hoover's one-year moratorium on payment of World War I war debts and reparations. Nearly all sovereign borrowers subsequently defaulted on all or part of their external debts, beginning with Germany. Unemployment in Europe reached an agonizing peak in 1932: In July of that year, 49 percent of German trade union members were out of work.

The political consequences are well known. But the Nazis were only the worst of a large number of extremist movements to benefit politically from the crisis. "Anti-system" parties in Germany — including Communists as well as fascists — had won 13 percent of votes in 1928. By November 1932, they won nearly 60 percent. The far right also fared well in Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Romania. Communists gained in Bulgaria, France and Greece.

The result was the death of democracy in much of Europe. While 24 European regimes had been democratic in 1920, the number was down to 11 in 1939. Even bankers know what happened that year.

Those of us who repeatedly warned in the 1990s that the experiment of monetary union would end badly would be gloating now — if we were not so troubled by the prospect of history repeating itself.

Losing Faith

What is the situation today? Europe's periphery is in depression. According to the IMF, gross domestic product will contract this year by 4.7 percent in Greece and 3.3 percent in Portugal. Unemployment is 24 percent in Spain, 22 percent in Greece and 15 percent in Portugal. Public debt already exceeds 100 percent of GDP in Greece, Ireland, Italy and Portugal. These countries, along with Spain, are now effectively shut out of the bond market.

Now comes the banking crisis. We have warned for more than three years that continental Europe needed to clean up its banks' woeful balance sheets. Next to nothing was done. In the meanwhile, a silent run on the banks of the eurozone periphery has been underway for two years now: cross-border, interbank and wholesale funding has rolled off and been substituted with ECB financing; and "smart money" — large uninsured deposits of high net worth individuals — has quietly exited Greek and other "Club Med" banks.

But now the public is finally losing faith and the silent run may spread to smaller insured deposits. Indeed, if Greece were to exit, a deposit freeze would occur and euro deposits would be converted into new drachmas: so a euro in a Greek bank really is not equivalent to a euro in a German bank. Greeks have withdrawn more than €700 million ($875 million) from their banks in the past month.

More worryingly, there was also a surge of withdrawals from some Spanish banks last month. On a recent visit to Barcelona, one of us was repeatedly asked if it was safe to leave money in a Spanish bank. This kind of process is potentially explosive. What today is a leisurely "bank jog" could easily become a sprint for the exits. Indeed, a full run on other PIIGS banks would be impossible to avoid in the event of a Greek exit. Rational people would ask: Who is next?

In the meantime, the credit crunch in the eurozone banks on the periphery remains severe as banks — unable to achieve the new 9 percent capital targets by raising private capital — are selling assets and contracting credit, thus making the eurozone recession more severe. Fragmentation and balkanization of banking in the eurozone, together with domestication of public debt, is now well underway.

The process of political fragmentation is also speeding up. In the last Greek elections, seven in 10 voters cast their ballots for smaller parties opposed to the austerity program imposed on Greece in return for two EU-led bailouts. Established parties are also losing out to splinter parties in Italy, where the comedian Beppe Grillo's Five Star Movement has just won control of the city of Parma, and in Germany, where a maverick party called the Pirates is all the rage. Less frivolous populists now have substantial support in France, the Netherlands and Norway. This trend is ominous.

Reducing Moral Hazard

The way out of this crisis seems clear.

First, there needs to be a program of direct recapitalization — via preferred non-voting shares — of eurozone banks both in the periphery and the core by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) and its successor the European Stability Mechanism (ESM). The model should be the US's successful Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP).

The current approach of recapping the banks by the sovereigns borrowing from domestic bond markets — and/or the EFSF — has been a disaster in Ireland and Greece. It has led to a surge of public debt and made the sovereign even more insolvent while making banks more risky as an increasing amount of the debt is in their hands.

Direct capital injections would bypass the sovereign and avoid the surge in public debt. In practice, the eurozone taxpayer would become a shareholder in eurozone banks and the current balkanization of banking would be partially reversed. This might also help overcome the political resistance to cross-border mergers and acquisitions in coddled domestic banking systems.

Of course, over time, sound banks that restore capital through earnings would be able to buy back the public preferred shares. So this partial nationalization would be temporary.

Second, to avoid a run on eurozone banks — a certainty in the case of a "Grexit" and likely in any case — a EU-wide system of deposit insurance needs to be created.

To reduce moral hazard (and the equity and credit risk undertaken by eurozone taxpayers through the recap and the deposit insurance scheme), several additional measures should also be implemented:
  • The deposit insurance scheme has to be funded by appropriate bank levies: This could be a financial transaction tax or, better, a levy on all bank liabilities — both deposits and other debt claims.

  • To limit the potential losses for eurozone taxpayers, there needs to be a bank resolution scheme in which unsecured creditors of banks — both junior and senior — would take a hit before taxpayer money is used to cover bank losses.

  • Measures to limit the size of banks to avoid the too-big-to-fail problem need to be undertaken. In the case of Bankia, the merger of seven smaller caixas merely created a bank that was too big to fail.

  • We also favor an EU-wide system of supervision and regulation. If the eurozone taxpayer backstops the capital and deposits of eurozone banks, then supervision and regulation cannot remain at the national level, where political distortions lead to less than optimal oversight of banks.
True, European-wide deposit insurance will not work if there is a continued risk of a country leaving the eurozone. Guaranteeing deposits in euros would be very expensive as the exiting country would need to convert all euro claims into a new national currency, which would swiftly depreciate against the euro. On the other side, if the deposit insurance holds only if a country doesn't exit, it will be incapable of stopping a bank run. So more needs to be done to reduce the probability of eurozone exits.

Part 2: No Alternative to Debt Mutualization

Specifically, three actions are needed:
  • Fiscal austerity policies should not be excessively front-loaded while structural reforms that accelerate productivity growth should be sped up.

  • Economic growth needs to be jump-started in the eurozone. Without growth, the social and political backlash against austerity will be overwhelming. Repaying debt cannot be sustainable without growth.

  • The policies to achieve this include further monetary easing by the ECB, a weaker euro, some fiscal stimulus in the core, more bottleneck-reducing and supply-stimulating infrastructure spending in the periphery (preferably with some kind of "golden rule" for public investment), and wage increases above productivity in the core to boost income and consumption.
Finally, given the unsustainably high public debts and borrowing costs of certain member states, we see no alternative to some kind of debt mutualization.

There are currently a number of different proposals for euro bonds. Among them, the German Council of Economic Experts' proposal for a European Redemption Fund (ERF) is to be preferred — not because it is the optimal one but rather because it is the only one that can assuage German concerns about taking on too much credit risk.

The ERF is a temporary program that does not lead to permanent euro bonds. It is supported by appropriate collateral and seniority for the fund and has strong conditionality. The main risk is that any proposal that is acceptable to Germany would imply such a loss of national fiscal policy sovereignty that it would be unacceptable to the eurozone periphery, particularly Italy and Spain.

Giving up some sovereignty is inevitable. However, becoming subject to a "neo-colonial" submission of one's fiscal policy to Germany — as a senior periphery leader put it to us at a recent meeting of the Nicolas Berggruen Institute (NBI) in Rome — is not acceptable.

Not Optional

Until recently, the German position has been relentlessly negative on all such proposals. German officials have repeatedly opposed the direct recapitalization of troubled banks. Chancellor Merkel has consistently ruled out euro bonds. Some German spokesmen have made it sound as if they actually want a Greek exit from the eurozone. Others have been over-eager to impose the same fiscal regime on Spain as has already been imposed on Portugal.

We understand German concerns about moral hazard. Putting German taxpayers' money on the line will be hard to justify if meaningful reforms do not materialize on the periphery. But such reforms are bound to take time. Structural reform of the German labor market was hardly an overnight success. By contrast, the European banking crisis is a financial hazard that could escalate in a matter of days.

We have tried to come up with proposals that address German anxieties. But we want to emphasize that action is urgently needed. Germans must understand that bank recapitalization, European deposit insurance and debt mutualization are not optional. They are essential steps to avoid an irreversible disintegration of Europe's monetary union. If Germans are still not convinced, they must understand that the costs of a breakup of the eurozone would be astronomically high — for themselves as much as for anyone.

After all, Germany's current prosperity is in large measure a consequence of monetary union. The euro has given German exporters a far more competitive exchange rate than the old Deutsche mark would have. And the rest of the eurozone remains the destination for 42 percent of German exports. Plunging half of that market into a new Depression can hardly be good for Germany.

Ultimately, as Chancellor Merkel herself acknowledged last week, monetary union always implied further integration into a fiscal and political union.

But before Europe gets anywhere near taking this historical step, it must first of all show that it has learned the lessons of the past. The EU was created to avoid repeating the disasters of the 1930s. It is time Europe's leaders — and especially Germany's — understood how perilously close they are to doing just that.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 12 22:05:42 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 20:42:46 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Those are bumper sticker slogans as there's never a sure thing in the business world.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 22:06:26 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 12 21:34:06 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I cannot find the link to the item I was referring to but all your links still doesn't prove smaz right - which was the thrust of the post that you were referring to.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 22:10:34 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 12 22:05:42 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Perhaps but the billions of dollars sitting on the sidelines waiting for some clarity in the issue of tax reform and obama's class warfare are real. Those dollars won't get into the game until investors are certain of the rules by which they will be playing. Thats just how it works.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 12 22:13:15 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 22:10:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
What billions of dollars sitting on the sidelines?

your pal,
Fred

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 12 22:18:17 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 12 22:13:15 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Euros. :)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Jun 13 11:45:05 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 12 22:06:26 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
It also shows that the market isn't being influenced by vague, ideological events, only by economic news and data.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 13 12:51:15 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Wed Jun 13 11:45:05 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
+1, THIW and all that stuff.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 13 17:00:53 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by 3-9 on Wed Jun 13 11:45:05 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Well now, that's a matter of opinion. The same news drives the market up one day and drives it down the next if you believe the pundits. I cannot find the link to the article I was citing so for now I'll concede the point but I believe that you are far too dismissive about Wisconsin's affect on the markets.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jun 17 10:32:58 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Rockparkman on Tue Jun 12 17:43:23 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Only of you lead them to Alaska to mine gold.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 17 12:03:34 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jun 17 10:32:58 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
That is why we have AUTO RACKS. Just have them handle the rock and dirt butr NOWHERE NEAR the Concentrate.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 17 12:05:56 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 17 12:03:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
There is no train line to Alaska.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires

Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Jun 17 12:54:46 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''bailout'' (loan-sharking) of Spain backfires, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 17 12:05:56 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They can build the connection.

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EUEUEUEUEU "court of justice" rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 21 14:31:58 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
A real workers' paradise. Where have we heard this one before?

BBC News

21 June 2012 Last updated at 11:33 ET

EU court: Workers sick on leave can get extra time off

Workers who fall sick during their annual leave are entitled to take corresponding paid leave at a later date, the EU's top court has ruled.

The European Court of Justice ruling is legally binding throughout the EU.

Thursday's ruling was prompted by a Spanish trade union case against a group of department stores.

"The right to paid annual leave cannot be interpreted restrictively," the court says. The UK does not have an opt-out in this area of EU labor law.

The court in Luxembourg said the EU Working Time Directive grants workers a right to at least four weeks' paid annual leave "even where such leave coincides with periods of sick leave."

The ECJ says, "The point at which the temporary incapacity arose is irrelevant. Consequently, a worker is entitled to take paid annual leave, which coincides with a period of sick leave, at a later point in time, irrespective of the point at which the incapacity for work arose."

According to an earlier ECJ ruling, workers who fall sick before a period of annual leave can also reschedule that leave period so that it does not clash with their sick leave.

The UK's opt-out from the Working Time Directive only applies to the directive's clause setting a 48-hour limit on the working week.

The UK government says, "No-one can opt out of any other part of the directive."

The UK and at least 14 other countries use the opt-out, which enables workers voluntarily to work more than 48 hours a week.

Carrying leave over

An EU source told the BBC that the ECJ ruling has full, immediate effect EU-wide, regardless of the type or size of employer.

Workers who believe their employer has infringed their right to paid annual leave can seek justice in their national courts.

Infringement cases against employers who violate the directive can also be brought by the European Commission or national governments.

Commenting on Thursday's ruling the Confederation of British Industry said that "as a result of earlier ECJ judgments, this change has already happened in the UK, bringing along headaches for employers."

Guy Bailey, CBI Head of Employment and Employee Relations, said that "with the rules currently under discussion again in Brussels, the CBI would like to see the judgments reversed, so that the directive is focused on the health and safety of the workforce, as originally intended."

The Working Time Directive has been hotly debated in the EU for years. The European Parliament has tried to get the opt-out removed, challenging the UK position.

The UK's Federation of Small Businesses urged the UK government on Thursday to "avoid implementation of any ECJ ruling on annual leave and sick leave for as long as possible, given the ongoing negotiations by the social partners on the Working Time Directive."

The business group said changing UK law in this area again "would be unhelpful, confusing and add burdens for small businesses, which at this time they can ill afford."

In cases where workers fall sick towards the end of the year, and are unable to take all of their annual leave, they can under EU law carry over their unused leave into the next accounting period.

The ECJ has also ruled that the long-term sick have the right to accumulate at least a year of unused annual leave. But the ECJ says the amount is not open-ended and member states can set an upper limit.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''court of justice'' rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off

Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 15:35:14 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU "court of justice" rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 21 14:31:58 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Still finding new rights to benefits, even as the continent "sinks giggling into the sea."

--*Credit to the long-time British satirical magazine Punch for that phrase.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''court of justice'' rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 21 16:03:46 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''court of justice'' rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 15:35:14 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
All rights are wrong over there.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''court of justice'' rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jun 21 18:22:22 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU ''court of justice'' rules that workers who get sick on vacation can get extra time off, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 15:35:14 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Greece is sinking because British employees must get extra time off when they get sick on vacation?



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(EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 23 03:06:44 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The Local

One in five German teens can't read well enough

Published: 22 Jun 12 15:13 CET
As many as one in five young people leave school in Germany without basic literacy skills, according to a report commissioned by the government.

As many as 20 percent of school-leavers cannot read properly or understand texts, and generally fail to find further training placements according to the report, the Sόddeutsche Zeitung newspaper said on Friday.

The “Education in Germany 2012” report, published every two years, said that improvements in early education had failed to help a stubborn core of up to 20 percent of pupils who leave school without sufficient literacy skills.

The authors warned that a lack of qualified early childcare staff could be partially to blame, and added that children learning German as a second language needed special support.

The report also cited some improvements in German education performance, including at the other end of the spectrum, a rise in the number of teenagers completing their Abitur exams — the German school-leaving certificate.

Speaking at the presentation of the report to the conference of Culture Ministers in Berlin on Friday, head of the research team Horst Weishaupt said the report showed many positive developments but also higlighted big challenges.

The authors welcomed the fact that most children aged three and over now go to some kind of kindergarten — but warned that local authorities must "massively increase" their efforts to raise the number of kindergarten places.
BTW, I first went to school being able to read because my parents taught me how to read.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by Rockparkman on Sat Jun 23 10:08:14 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 23 03:06:44 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
"BTW, I first went to school being able to read because my parents taught me how to read."

That IS how it WORKS. US media needs to be directed at the objective of making school cool as it was in the early 60s. Even ExxonMobil is pushing "STEM"* education in a huge ad campaign but art, history, culture, and physical conditioning (NOT to be confused with team sports) also need to be pushed. Technically advanced people without moral balance turn out to be Nazis.

*STEM= Science Technology Engineering Math.

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Re: (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate

Posted by JayMan on Sun Jun 24 08:24:04 2012, in response to (EUEUEUEUEU) A fifth of German teens leave high school illiterate, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 23 03:06:44 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm pretty certain, at least of the general population, the number is comparable in the States. The problem isn't the fault of the schools. It's that a share of the population is essentially too dumb to read. The throngs of Turkish immigrants there have swelled that share.

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