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| Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? (156639) | |
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Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 2 15:03:03 2006 OK, this is just horrible. 32 yr old milk truck driver/delivery guy went into a one room Amish school, asked the boys to leave, and proceeded to line the girls against the blackboard and shooting them execution style, then he killed himself. 4 dead, 7 inured.My question is this.....who the fuck has greivances with the Amish!? |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:07:54 2006, in response to Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 2 15:03:03 2006. This whole story has made me ill....literally. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 15:35:51 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:07:54 2006. AP reports it's a milk truck driver who took a bunch of girls hostage and told his wife, by cellphone, that he was taking revenge for something that happened 20 years ago. State troopers tried to negotiate with him but then heard shots. They broke through windows to get into the building but the suspect had already fatally wounded the girls and himself. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:37:22 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 15:35:51 2006. FOX News reports the milkman was known and was friendly with the local Amish community. Like I said, it makes you ill. |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 15:40:09 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:37:22 2006. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/us/03amishcnd.html?hp&ex=1159848000&en=daac5f1bbbfdd36a&ei=5094&partner=homepageThe girls never had a chance. He blew them away one by one. Some of the 10 may survive with brain damage/ Link here |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:47:18 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 15:40:09 2006. Interesting to note none in the Amish community seem to have refused modern medical treatment. God's will don't mean jack when your daughter has a bullet in her brain. |
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| (156654) | |
Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 15:51:13 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:47:18 2006. I think that may be more related to inability to pay. Amish don't believe in commercial health insurance; instead, they do their own by pooling community resources to pay. If one of them needs a kidney transplant, and the health kitty doesn't have enough $$, he's SOL.By the way, six girls are dead at last count, 4 in critical condition. Their parents are not being allowed to refuse treatment, but if any of the last 4 are in state where further treatment would be futile, the parents may ask for treatment to cease and the hospitals will probably comply. |
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| (156676) | |
Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Oct 2 17:08:18 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:47:18 2006. The Amish refusal to use technology has nothing to do with God's will, it has to do with the desire to minimize outside influences. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 17:53:31 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:07:54 2006. Keep in mind that lost amid this tragedy, two las Vegas schools were in lock-down at the same time as this incident because a student allegedly grought a 25 Cal. pistol to school.4 incident in roughly a week. On the other hand, Nevada and Colorado are RED states while Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are BLUE states. So I guess Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and Ted kennedy can't blame the republicans this time. |
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| (156688) | |
Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 17:57:43 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 17:53:31 2006. North Las Vegas police found the gun. At last word, they were still looking for the teenager. |
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| (156693) | |
Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 2 18:15:06 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 17:53:31 2006. Somehow I am sure we will see, "The Amish tragedy was all Bush's fault"....everything else seems to be.... |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by P-rad M on Mon Oct 2 18:15:27 2006, in response to Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 2 15:03:03 2006. Its an awful story though. I know this will give me nightmares cause this story is just everywhere so I'm just picturing it in my head how can a human being think of doing that, and to an Amish community. That guy must have been insane, and probably could've been an ex-con or just an insane person.P-rad M |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:19:04 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 17:53:31 2006. [a student allegedly grought a 25 Cal. pistol to school.]I doubt he brought the gun to school for 'show n' tell'. :-( |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 2 18:19:28 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 2 18:15:06 2006. Or that this will be taken as an example of Republican refusals to institute stricter gun controls (which, however, can't really be disputed...considering how a poison pill that was aimed at dismissing lawsuits against the gun industry was slipped in by Republicans last year into a totally unrelated bill.) |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:21:46 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by P-rad M on Mon Oct 2 18:15:27 2006. Maybe he was an insane Amish person....we don't know all the facts yet.Living an Amish lifestyle in a nation that is totally 180 degrees opposite of that lifestyle can certainly be frustrating if you are an unhappy Amish man (or woman). I'm sure it's not an easy way of life....and nor is ours. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:28:07 2006, in response to Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 2 15:03:03 2006. Sorry, didn't read the initial post. I see he was a milkman and was KNOWN in the Amish community, but was NOT OF the Amish.My feeling on the whole tragic affair: This was most likely a copycat of the Colorado maniac of a few days ago that pulled a similar scenerio, letting everyone go but young females. Interesting, in that I would have thought he was going to sexually assault the Amish girls, but seemed to want kill them instead. Truly tragic AND strange. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 18:28:42 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:21:46 2006. Somehow, I doubt it. Amish don't drive - except for the traditional horse & buggy. Besides most Amish in that area are named Lapp, Zook or Stoltsfus. Somehow, Robinson does not sound Amish:) |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:31:18 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 18:28:42 2006. TD, I made the previous post in haste as I had not read the initial message (re: perp being a Milkman). I would retract my post if I could... |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 18:49:20 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:31:18 2006. Not to worry, BG. I read the correction after I posted my message. If i could have retracted it, I would have. 8-) |
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| (156715) | |
Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 19:50:35 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 18:19:04 2006. More like "show n'use." :0( |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Oct 2 20:07:14 2006, in response to Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Oct 2 15:03:03 2006. Prepare yourselves for the unending chorus of gun control, like it's going to stop the carnage. Back in the 20's, America's thirst for alcoholic beverages was squelched by Prohibition. But America still got the booze secretly.Generations later, America had a habit for illegal drugs. A war on drugs was launched and is still in effect. The war is still going on will do so forever. Now today America has an appetite for guns. Politicians, usually clueless Democrats always speak the words gun control to end the carnage. But the guns are still being made because America just has to have guns. The more you restrict these evils on American society, the more America will find a way to satisfy it's appetite. I see no end to drugs and guns in this country as long as we have the want and need for them. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Oct 2 20:58:33 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Oct 2 20:07:14 2006. IAWTP. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 2 21:12:55 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Oct 2 20:07:14 2006. Anti-terrorism is a major issue, right? Try scaring people straight---gun money helps support al-Qaida and related organizations. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:19:44 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Oct 2 20:07:14 2006. So, what's the answer???My only idea is the laws already on the books should be ENFORCED. For instance, this guy was a MILKMAN. What does a milkman need with a gun (I assume it was a handgun). I can understand if he owned a rifle for hunting purposes. But if this was a handgun then he should not have had it. PERIOD. (granted the laws vary from state to state and Penn. may allow ownership of handguns to common citizenry). |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 21:47:09 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:19:44 2006. Remember the immortal words of the eminent philosopher, Alfred E. Newman:If ice picks are outlawed, then only out-laws will have ice picks. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Oct 2 21:49:22 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 2 21:12:55 2006. No it doesn't, at least not LEGAL gun money. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:54:15 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 21:47:09 2006. But, the number of people with ice picks will be very small compared to the overall population? Wouldn't you agree?Putting the 'MAD' analogy aside, without SOME FORM of gun control these recent -- and likely future -- school shootings will only continue. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 2 21:59:17 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 21:47:09 2006. If ice picks are outlawed, then only out-laws will have ice picks.....and Sharon Stone. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Oct 2 22:06:14 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 18:28:42 2006. Some Amish do drive....we call them 'black buggy Amish' because they used to paint chrome bumpers black. They are not the 'people in the magazines' anymore. Even use steel wheeled 'rollerblades!'The key to practical Amish life is to accept technology but remain 'off the grid.' The telephone is considered an instrument of idleness but now accepted....at a distance located far away from the home. The rule has been that one tractor takes away the work of two men and three horses...ground driven machinery has been replaced by horse towed enginepowered machinery. The wood/workshops are illuminated by large glass windows to keep the work 'dawn to dusk' but there is machinery: engine powered raceways/hydraulic/pneumatic operated by the latest equipment....dealers readily convert electric tools. Amish have a reputation for hand sewn quilts and they have competition from the Orient. What they will not do is use machinery in that area...everything is done in 'quilt bees' often by done by local Church congregations. I've attended the auction at the Harristown Farm Center. My mom is dying and her collection of quilts starting from a 1953 Kutztown prize winner is being shipped all over the country to guilds and museums. What is left is my collection of Singer Featherweight sewing machines....I have eight...five 221s (one pre-war), two 221Ks (white machines) and a 300 (full size with the machined helical gearing.) I could spend an evening posting about Mennonite life from my personal experience. Pray for the victims of Roberts rampage. Peter |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 22:08:22 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:54:15 2006. I venture to say that I'm relatively sheltered vis-a-vis the ways of the inner city. Yet I am sure that if I had the cash, I could locate an illegal hand gun within an hor. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 22:09:36 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 2 21:59:17 2006. Ice pick but no panties? |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 2 22:09:57 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 2 15:47:18 2006. Huh? I'm sure it is similar to how on a Jewish holiday you can break most any rule in order to save a life. There's nothing wrong with that. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 22:11:22 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:19:44 2006. By the way:What goes clip-clop, clip-clop, clip-clop, pop-pop-pop, clip-clop, clip-clop, clip-clop? |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 2 22:13:24 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 2 22:09:57 2006. Yeah, I don't believe they are like the Christian Scientists religion, which don't believe in any medical treatment, only prayer. I am not sure though. I believe the Amish are able to take medicine, etc unlike Christian Scientists? |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Oct 2 22:14:10 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 2 22:09:57 2006. Vey very very true....not matter what the religion, when it comes to a loved one, people do what they gotta do to save 'em.Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 2 22:15:53 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Oct 2 22:14:10 2006. I would assume the Amish may also be allowed to be taken away in ambulances then too? |
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Re: Link to NY News story |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Oct 2 22:15:54 2006, in response to Re: Link to NY News story, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Oct 2 22:14:10 2006. Not in Judaism. In Judaism you are COMMANDED to break the rules to save a life. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Oct 2 22:53:00 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:54:15 2006. No form of Gun Control will ever prevent such incidents. IF an individual wishes to do harm to others, there are supermarkets/hardware stores/farm stores/gas stations that offer far more dangerous weapons components. A person seeking to do harm to others does not need a firearm. I wonder if the author of 'Taylor Diaries: Day They Came for my Guns' sleeps peacably after the Oklahoma City incident.'Gun Control' does NOT work for the criminal populace. New York City licensees of NYPD have the BEST record of firearms possesion in the entire country...and the 'priviledge' is very expensive...$350 for pistols and $170 for long arms....three year period. School shootings and violence will continue until such scenarios are seriously investigated and terminated without predijous. I cite persons such as Marc Ecko as an origin. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Oct 2 23:02:23 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 22:11:22 2006. Black buggy downed upon by a SUV before going into a gallop. BTW: Pennsy DOT requires the buggy to carry operational marker lights....kerosene or battery. Country life. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BIE on Mon Oct 2 23:33:41 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 2 18:19:28 2006. I wish the Democrats would wake up and dump those who support gun control. Repeal the permit law If the cops don't like it TOUGH SHIT. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BIE on Mon Oct 2 23:54:49 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Oct 2 21:12:55 2006. You are so full of shit it is coming out your ears. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Tue Oct 3 00:13:34 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 22:08:22 2006. This issue is not based on 'inner-city vs. the suburbs' crime, as many of these recent shootings occurred in non-urban environments. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Tue Oct 3 00:32:30 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Oct 2 22:53:00 2006. I disagree....a firearm allows the person who wants to do harm to do evil deeds from afar w/o the intimacy of hand-to-hand combat or using a knife. Rarely do you get a lunatic using a knife to take out several people...Cowards use guns to do the kinds of acts like these school shootings. You never see a nut with a knife unless it is in a case of a heated argument a la domestic disputes and in some rare 'going postal' incidents. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Oct 3 01:42:44 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 2 22:11:22 2006. redbird express #2 elevated |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 3 06:18:26 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Oct 2 22:06:14 2006. Very good post, Peter. Living in Chester County, PA. I am familiar with the mostly Lancaster County Amish & Mennonites. My dear wife, who is gone now, taught me a lot.Why this man killed, is a mystery to us all. What a horrible thing! |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 3 06:21:05 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Oct 3 01:42:44 2006. redbird express #2 elevatedWhat it this? Is is relevant to this discussion? |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Oct 3 07:33:55 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BMT Guy on Mon Oct 2 21:19:44 2006. So, what's the answer???I don't know what's the answer. When something horrific like this happens, the first cry is for stricter gun control legislation. But that doesn't slow down or stop the flow of hand guns. Make it more difficult to buy a gun and now there is an illicit market created much like illegal drugs and prohibition alcohol. When I was a kid I owned a gun, a cap pistol I used to play cowboys and Indians. Till this day I never held or fired a real gun. One Christmas my brother got a military machine gun that shot real plastic bullets. Well, they spat out a few inches and dropped to the floor. Till this day he doesn't own a gun. Maybe the problem is that society can't think for itself and we have to let guns do the thinking. settle the scores, express anger and sorrow. If that's the case, we're in deep doo doo. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Tue Oct 3 10:14:25 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Oct 2 15:35:51 2006. Way to go, Tevye! Methinks you shoulda stuck to being a milkman and fiddling on the roof. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Tue Oct 3 10:20:29 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by BIE on Mon Oct 2 23:33:41 2006. Japan has a gun ban, so the Nipponese murder with knives. Murder still happens. |
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Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!? |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Tue Oct 3 10:25:50 2006, in response to Re: Who the hell shoots up an Amish school!?, posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Oct 2 20:07:14 2006. I favor gun control in places where population density is high (such as NYC), but guns are generally okay in the countryside. The reason is simple: that way, innocent bystanders ain't hurt as much or as often if there is an attempt to murder. (I doubt that gun control will actually stop murders, though, which is why I don't necessarily favor a ban in the the countryside, although I'm fine with one if the Second Amendment is tinkered with). |
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