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| Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System (248757) | |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 02:25:55 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:23:04 2011. Thats because you say he is in your opinion...(Waits for the Leg hump reply) |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:33:53 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 02:25:55 2011. I'm not the only one with that opinion, it seems to be fairly widely held here... |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 02:36:18 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:33:53 2011. I never said otherwise... |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 02:37:38 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:23:04 2011. Whatever you like it to be it can be,son.Its his right to defend his stand..if he feels hes right. Perhaps he just may be wrong..but there are other ways to point out his errors..that to verbally beat him into the ground..throw dirt on his accomplishments..spit in his eye about his CAREER like you all had a major part in that... Face it..if hes wrong..then hes wrong..but there no need to do a victory lap about it as if you won the freakin house cup. I RESPECT HIM due to the simple fact that MULTIPLE PEOPLE bum rushed him just to prove him wrong..yet he stood his ground against each and every one of them... It was a pretty decent debate until the piss-ant of Sub-Chat got involved...then it pretty much went down hill. in any regard..you didnt have much of a point to prove..so whats the deal? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 02:39:35 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:33:53 2011. the point being this..nobody cares how YOU and the others feel about it.it is what it is. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 02:42:27 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 02:36:18 2011. "I can hear you calling in the air at night..hold on.." |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BigBusDriver on Thu Nov 24 02:48:20 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:23:04 2011. And your point is........?Is it that he's stubborn? Is THAT the point? At what time do we convene the firing squad? STILL LOL@BREE AND THE BAND OF MARKSMEN |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 03:14:41 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 02:42:27 2011. I wont be surprised if his buddy will roll with that ONE post with his Leg Humping... |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 04:46:51 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 02:37:38 2011. Please find a post where I (not someone else) have diminished BrooklynBus's career at the MTA.Just because someone stands their ground doesn't make them right. The debate isn't all that decent IMO, I haven't followed this one super closely but the B110 discussion was hard to maintain as BrooklynBus kept changing his view as facts were presented to him or just ignored those facts altogether. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 07:18:10 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 04:46:51 2011. Didn't Edwards say in that reply that "he may be wrong"? Maybe you should follow the whole thread take Brians advice.... Since you already said you haven't followed this one closely.. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 07:32:51 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 07:18:10 2011. Before telling me to follow the thread more carefully, you might want to pay more attention to my single post. Edwards did say "he may be wrong", but all I see is a defiant BrooklynBus in response to MANY people pointing out valid flaws with his arguments. This looks to me like the petty "tribal warfare" that goes on here where people will avoid disagreeing with their buddies as opposed to looking at the issues themselves more than anything else.Besides, if there is a whole subthread in here (or more) as I suspect there is where Brian posts one thing, then 4 or 5 people reply nothing of substance back, and then Brian copies and pastes his original post, why should I read all that anyway? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 08:13:06 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 07:32:51 2011. The words "Maybe you should follow Brians Advice" don't register I'm guessing right. Again if you have a problem with what the man says then that's ok. Nobody is disputing that. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 08:30:24 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 08:13:06 2011. In the discourse of normal conversation, the fact that you are advising me to follow Brian's advice implies that it is your advice, too. I realize this is BusChat so this might not qualify as normal conversation, but you can't distance yourself from Brian's advice at this point for this subthread. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 08:51:11 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:22:01 2011. What facts did I deny? You consider me stubborn because you weren't able to provide a fully persuade me to your point of view. I would have changed my mind if you could have provided better arguments which you couldn't. If I'm consistent, then I'm stubborn. If you convince me to change my mind, then I'm changing my position. It seems under those conditions, it's impossible to win, isn't it? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 08:51:48 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 02:23:04 2011. He's not proving your point. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 08:53:55 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 02:37:38 2011. You know what they say. It's good to be persistent but bad to be stubborn when in fact they are the same thing. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 08:56:09 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 07:32:51 2011. I haven't seen any "valid" flaws. I either would have responded I was wrong or refute them. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:22:13 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 08:51:11 2011. When I offered counterpoints to your arguments in the B110 thread here, you never replied to the post at all. When I stated that when everyone on the bus agrees to a voluntary seating arrangement, such activity can't be made illegal here, you totally sidestepped the issue at hand because directly acknowledging it would have undermined your entire argument. You also sidestepped the request in this post, but others were able to answer my questions (with answers that helped your arguments, imagine what could have been if you had actually taken the time to find the answers and reply them yourself!). Need I go on? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 09:27:16 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:22:13 2011. If I didn't respond to something it wasn't intentional. I don't spend every living moment on this site like Brian does. I will look at those links right now and respond. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:32:52 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 09:27:16 2011. And revive a thread that ended a long time ago? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 09:49:43 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:22:13 2011. Okay, I just looked at the three links you posted. I see responses by myself in the second two links where we discussed the issues at length. How can you say that I was ignoring your posts. It seems that you either didn't read what I said or we argued the point and I just didn't agree with you because your arguments just weren't strong enough. I do not intend to reread them again and go over the same points we already discussed.As for the first link, I must of overlooked it. But it seems like you just want to get into a religious discussion which I would rather not because it could take forever and is off-topic anyway. I will only address your first point of how can I prove Orthodox women have been brainwashed. Of course I can't provide positive proof using statistics or other documentation. I will just say this. Since the 1960s women in this country have been liberated. They now hold more high level jobs than men do. Marriages for most people are an equal partnership. Many will say that in many households it is the women who make most of the decisions about day to day activities. Contrary, in Orthodox households (as in some other religions) the man is still considered to be the boss. A woman's role is to obey, stay home and have children. Some do have jobs like secretarial duties, teaching, etc. But how many run businesses or have major roles in large corporations. I don't think it is that many. Also, I'm not hearing of any major movement where Orthodox women are trying to change their current role. They seem to be quite content in being second class citizens while the world around them has changed and is continuing to change for the better. Restricting people's activities so they are not allowed to find out what is going on the outside world is brainwashing. Of course I am not talking about all Orthodox, but primarily the Ultra Orthodox. Tell me what would you call it when a picture of Hillary Clinton, the Secretary of State, has to be erased from a picture showing a group of men at a conference when showing the news just because they do not want Orthodox women to see that there are women in the world who are decision makers? That my friend is brainwashing. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 09:53:42 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:32:52 2011. Apparently you just asked me to do that. Now you say, I shouldnt? You just want to make your accusations that I didn't respond without me actually responding? So what is it you would like me to do. Apologize for not responding? Then just keep quiet? |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Nov 24 09:58:13 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 08:30:24 2011. I can ask if I so choose I have read the thread.. You are a grown man nobody is telling you to listen as you frist said. Still not disputing your disagreement with how he comes across. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 10:04:30 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 09:53:42 2011. You said you missed the post, I can accept that. Why do you want to restart a conversation where in the reply you chose to make to my inquiries long after the fact, you have only made it clear you don't internalize what people tell you about their own personal views to the point you don't realize where you do have common ground with others? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 10:26:53 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 10:04:30 2011. wow..if that the case..why did you bring it up?Look..as I said..this is something thats gonna go on and on...nobody's going budge on this.. sometimes its best to agree to disagree,and move on. from a personal stand point..I happen to like the new sbs services..but completly hate the recent service changes to the Brooklyn network. what became of it is a bunch of disjointed lines,forcing double transfers longer trips,and sometimes an extra fare. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BigBusDriver on Thu Nov 24 10:57:09 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:32:52 2011. Oh the hypocrisy! BrooklynBus agrees to go back and review an old post, and you raise a hue and cry, yet when BREE-ANNE (the one you call 'Brian') necroposts like mad, not a word is said!So it's okay for you AND BREE to rub his nose in it, but when he attempts to remedy the situation, and POSSIBLY apologize or change his view, you are against it. You and BREE are cut from the same cloth. DIAPER CLOTH, because you are both usually FULL OF SHIT! STILL LOL@BREE AND THE SISTERHOOD |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 24 11:28:24 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 09:32:52 2011. whoa..nes-pa?this is the ultimate slap in the face.. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 11:54:20 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 10:04:30 2011. I can't even understand what you just said and I really don't care any more. I only responded because first of all you accused me of ignoring three links you posted when in fact I only ignored one. Then you make a statement that Orthodox women are not brainwashed and when I state my case that they are, now you think it is better if I just wouldn't have said anything.We obviously disagree on certain matters of religion and you even slightly changed your original position about the B110, so let's just leave it at that. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 12:19:13 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 11:54:20 2011. You have a strange concept of what it means to ignore. I also acknowledge when you "responded" to my posts by not directly addressing anything I actually wrote. Your claim that Orthodox women are brainwashed has been refuted by many people (if you want to say ultra-Orthodox, you might have a slightly stronger argument and even then it is a bit of a push). I suggested starting up a discussion that has been over for months was silly, I accepted your explanation that you didn't see the thread at the time, but you seem to have something to prove for some odd reason (I wonder what that could be...).As for your last statement, I didn't change my opinion about the B110, I said exactly what I said I would say if someone provided evidence to the contrary of what I posted. Several people here did in fact do that (though you were so busy grasping at straws and perpetuating anti-Semitic BS you didn't bother to post that information yourself). And you now make a point of how my opinion changed slightly, yet you fail to acknowledge the ways in which your points were demonstrated to be impossible to prove or outright false and wrong. Are you sure you aren't the stubborn one? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Nov 24 13:49:24 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 23 15:59:56 2011. "Obviously the public agency/operator is looking to either make money, break even, or lose as little money as possible (i.e. require the smallest subsidy possible) all while best fulfilling its mission of meeting the needs of its customers w.r.t providing transportation services. "Success", as the knowledgeable people use it, means that both the customers' needs are met and the operator's needs are met."But the extent to which they meet their goals should be taken into consideration. If they're saving a little bit of money and inconveniencing a bunch of riders, they're still meeting their goals (saving money and still providing service), but not to the ideal extent. Personally, I have no problem with +SBS+, as long as it fits the situation. In the case of the Bx12 and M15 +SBS+, I don't really see anything wrong with how they implemented it, at least in theory (for instance, the issue with excessive waits for local buses shouldn't have happened in theory). I mean, if they are able to save a large amount of money by inconveniencing relatively few passengers, then I'm all for it. This is just a general statement. In BrooklynBus' opinion, he feels that the savings resulting from +SBS+ aren't enough considering the number of riders inconvenienced (and they aren't balanced out by enough people who benefit from +SBS+). Since he does live in the general area of the B44, he does know at least something about the ridership habits of the riders (such as the fact that they'd prefer to reach the Brighton Line rather than the Nostrand Avenue Line). |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 14:21:24 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Nov 24 13:49:24 2011. The problem is that the MTA has made no estimate of riders inconvenienced as if they don't matter. They only talk of benefits to SBS riders. That is only half the picture. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 14:54:46 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 12:19:13 2011. You were the one who accused me of ignoring posts, now you say I don't understand what it means? If others have disputed that ultra Oethodox women have been brainwashed is immaterial. I gave you a specific example regarding the Hillary Clinton. Photo which you are not responding to so don't accuse me of talking around the issue. That is what you have just done by stating that brainwashing has been disputed by others. That is immaterial.You ask what I have to prove. I dont like being accused of something that I am not like being Anti-semitic which you have accused me of. I am Jewish and proud of it. I just don't have to agree with how you see Judaism. Here's where you changed your mind. Your initial position was that you had no sympathy for the reporters when both were asked to change their seat because they were only looking for a story and had no place being on the bus. In this post you say unequivicably that no one should be told where they cannot sit. Call me stubborn or persistent. Whatever you want. But I won't change my opinion unless your argument is good enough to persuade me. So far it hasn't been. And I am quite willing to drop things right here. I have nothing else to prove unless you keep challenging my statements. http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 15:20:29 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 14:54:46 2011. You didn't link to any post, so it is hard for me to see what you are referring to. That said, my stance didn't change in the way you claim. I've been consistent in saying legitimate travelers shouldn't be told where they have to sit. I have yet to put the photographer in the category of a legitimate traveler. Again, try reading what I write, not what you want me to say.You posted utter BS about Kaparot being torturous to the chickens, which then led to other urban legends being posted as fact. If you are in fact proud of being Jewish, then why are you posting the sort of false statements that anti-Semites use to spread their hateful views of Judaism? Plenty of Jews are opposed to using a live chicken for Kaparot, but they don't have to express that opposition in the way you did. I don't believe the modesty laws demanded upon by the ultra-Orthodox are in fact required based on the way the texts are written. I think I've made this abundantly clear. You'll have to explain how the removal of Hillary Clinton from the photo qualifies as brainwashing women into thinking they are second class citizens, I don't approve of it but I think your argument might be faulty. |
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Posted by BigBusDriver on Thu Nov 24 15:21:17 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 14:54:46 2011. Well presented and stated response. Bravo!I bet the Sisterhood is flinging emails back and forth right now! |
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Posted by BigBusDriver on Thu Nov 24 15:28:16 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 15:20:29 2011. I've been consistent in saying legitimate travelers shouldn't be told where they have to sit. I have yet to put the photographer in the category of a legitimate traveler. Again, try reading what I write, not what you want me to say.Did they not pay their fare? Are they being discriminated by YOU because YOU don't deem them "legitimate" by a LABEL??? You are a disgusting hypocrite! I guess you don't want 'them' on 'your' buses? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Nov 24 15:45:59 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 14:54:46 2011. He's apparently incapable of having a debate with someone without calling that person names. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Nov 24 16:15:28 2011, in response to How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 21 11:05:09 2011. That particular service change helped Southwest and southern Brooklyn, along with Flatlands and the then-nascent Spring Creek Towers, however. It is some of the latest cuts that have really been detrimental. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 18:13:25 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Nov 24 15:20:29 2011. The link is right there at the bottom of the post. If it doesn't work, let me know and I will correct it.As far as Kaparot, I actually thought it was worse than it actually was until I saw the video someone posted. After viewing it I stated okay it's not torture, but it still was uncomfortable for the chicken because it screamed every time the lady picked it up and swung it around her, although she did it slowly. As far a Hillary Clinton, I explained in detail why removing her from the picture was so that Jewish women will not see that there are women on this country in very high positions. Reread what I wrote and tell me that it wasn't brainwashing. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Nov 25 03:27:25 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 24 18:13:25 2011. I already said there is no link.You can explain all you want that Hillary Clinton was removed so that ultra-Orthodox (stop generalizing, this is part of the problem here) won't see women in high positions, but that doesn't make your opinion right, because there is no Jewish law that prevents women from knowing that. The actual reason she was removed from the photo is because having women in a newspaper photo is "sexually suggestive". Here is the complete statement from the newspaper about why they made the change (added emphasis is mine): The White House released a picture showing the President following “live” the events in the apprehension of Osama Bin Laden, last week Sunday. Also present in the Situation Room were various high-ranking government and military officials. Our photo editor realized the significance of this historic moment, and published the picture, but in his haste he did not read the "fine print" that accompanied the picture, forbidding any changes. We should not have published the altered picture, and we have conveyed our regrets and apologies to the White House and to the State Department. The allegations that religious Jews denigrate women or do not respect women in public office, is a malicious slander and libel. The current Secretary of State, the Honorable Hillary R. Clinton, was a Senator representing New York State with great distinction 8 years. She won overwhelming majorities in the Orthodox Jewish communities in her initial campaign in '00, and when she was re-elected in '06, because the religious community appreciated her unique capabilities and compassion to all communities. The Jewish religion does not allow for discrimination based on gender, race, etc. We respect all government officials. We even have special prayers for the welfare of our Government and the government leaders, and there is no mention of gender in such prayers. All Government employees are sworn into office, promising adherence to the Constitution, and our Constitution attests to our greatness as a nation that is a light beacon to the entire world. The First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. (See below.) That has precedence even to our cherished freedom of the press! In accord with our religious beliefs, we do not publish photos of women, which in no way relegates them to a lower status. Publishing a newspaper is a big responsibility, and our policies are guided by a Rabbinical Board. Because of laws of modesty, we are not allowed to publish pictures of women, and we regret if this gives an impression of disparaging to women, which is certainly never our intention. We apologize if this was seen as offensive. We are proud Americans of the Jewish faith, and there is no conflict in that, and we will with the help of the Almighty continue as law-abiding citizens, in this great country of our's, until the ultimate redemption. You can try to make your point as much as you want, but that doesn't make it correct or factual. It isn't brainwashing (at least not of the type you claim, if you want to try making an argument that the men of this community have been taught that they are unable to control their sexual impulses on their own and need help to do it, you might find some agreement there) under the actual circumstances of the situation as opposed to the ones you want. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Nov 25 10:37:48 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Nov 25 03:27:25 2011. I apologize. Here is the correct link.http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=246764 In the next to last line you state that no one is arguing the fact that anyone should be allowed to sit where they want. I interpreted that as anyone. Then in the last sentence you mention again how reporters are not legitimate travelers. So maybe you havent changed your position. But the notion that they are not is absurd. Anyone who pays a fare is a legitimate traveler. Yes she was out for a story, and that was the only way to get it, since what are the chances that an ordinary person who is offended by being asked to change seats would ever bother to make an issue of it? According to your logic, the police should never engage in sting operations to catch drug dealers or other criminals since they wouldn't be legitimate purchasers of those drugs. As far as the Hillary Clinton picture goes, thanks for digging up that information. It just proves that I was not the only one to come to the conclusion of brainwashing. Yes, they can apologize and deny all they want, but I don't buy it. You just don't make a blanket rule that every women cannot be shown in a newspaper photograph. That is plain ridiculous to suggest that a picture of any woman is sexually suggestive to men. If that were the case, photography of women should just be banned. Why would it be okay to display a picture of a woman in someone's house where it can be seen by all visitors, but not in a newspaper? I could understand their reasoning if they were objecting to the type of dress she was wearing, saying it was suggestive because it was too tight or too low cut. That would make sense if it were banned for religious reasons, but not to ban any photograph of a woman. There are just too many inconsistencies in Orthodox Judaism for it to appeal to me. Basically it is just a Board of Rabbis who can make any decision they want which must be obeyed, based on illogical reasoning, just to suit their purposes and give any reasons they want which cannot be challenged. Discussion is not permitted and if you want to call me anti-Semitic for saying that go ahead. No one is going to tell me that I don't have the right to think for myself. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by R40SlantontheB on Fri Nov 25 22:32:35 2011, in response to How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 21 11:05:09 2011. Those complainers should have to deal with Veolia and most of these private operators, then they'd be kissing that MTA logo. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Nov 26 12:16:19 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Nov 25 10:37:48 2011. what are the chances that an ordinary person who is offended by being asked to change seats would ever bother to make an issue of it?If they are truly offended, very high. That is my point. It seems as if this reporter was looking to make a story where one didn't necessarily exist. Infiltrating other communities to force them to change their ways when it doesn't negatively impact anyone is wrong. That is the point of the article I posted about the fact that ultimately, the ultra-Orthodox community is going to need to demand the changes from within itself. If only ultra-Orthodox people are on board the bus, what does it matter to you or anyone else how they sit? When I asked you to demonstrate that regular travelers use this bus and would be negatively impacted by this policy, you failed to come up with any examples. (It should be noted that other posters did provide examples in response to the questions I was actually asking.) It doesn't trouble you that a reporter who might just have something against Jews would go on the B110 on a secondhand hunch to write a story that paints all Jews as practicing this sort of custom? Are you aware of the fact that many people who hold misconceptions about Judaism or downright anti-Semitic views pick up these opinions from hearsay and/or inaccurate media reports? Obviously, if people are being asked to conform to the separated seating scheme against their own volition, that is a problem, but if no one is being hurt by it, why should you or anyone else care? Until someone can prove otherwise, I am under the assumption based on the way the original article was written that this reporter was not following up a previous incident or personal experience based on legitimate travel (i.e. needing to go from point A to point B, not to do their own work) and had no business interfering with a custom that seems to have no negative impact on anyone outside the ultra-Orthodox community. Get the difference now? It just proves that I was not the only one to come to the conclusion of brainwashing. Um, who else came to that conclusion? Yes, they can apologize and deny all they want, but I don't buy it. That doesn't mean anyone is being brainwashed. You just don't make a blanket rule that every women cannot be shown in a newspaper photograph. That is plain ridiculous to suggest that a picture of any woman is sexually suggestive to men. If that were the case, photography of women should just be banned. Why would it be okay to display a picture of a woman in someone's house where it can be seen by all visitors, but not in a newspaper? I suggest before trying to continue this sort of conversation in vain, you actually take the time to learn a little bit about the modesty rules that these ultra-Orthodox communities abide by (rightly or wrongly), and try to understand where they are coming from. Try to see things from their point of view. If you are unwilling or unable, that would be an example of why some of us here think you are stubborn. No one is asking you to agree with the other side, but you seem to have a complete inability to even consider why other people might want to have a point of view different from your own. I could understand their reasoning if they were objecting to the type of dress she was wearing, saying it was suggestive because it was too tight or too low cut. That would make sense if it were banned for religious reasons, but not to ban any photograph of a woman. This is about as ridiculous when you said you wouldn't have a problem with a left/right divide on the seating on the bus but you objected to a front/back split. You can't have it both ways. The argument from an ultra-Orthodox rabbi on this would be that it is easier to make a blanket rule to start determining what sort of clothing is suggestive, since not everyone is turned on by the same sorts of appearances. How do you make a religious law that takes that into account without it being a blanket prohibition? There are just too many inconsistencies in Orthodox Judaism for it to appeal to me. You are entitled to your opinion, but you aren't entitled to insult those who do practice ultra-Orthodox Judaism or who are more observant than you are. For someone complaining about others being brainwashed, you have some pretty strong preconceived notions about the way people are based on their opinions are about certain topics (again, maybe this is why some of us think you are stubborn). Basically it is just a Board of Rabbis who can make any decision they want which must be obeyed, based on illogical reasoning, just to suit their purposes and give any reasons they want which cannot be challenged. Your ignorance is astounding, no board of Rabbis can make decisions (and expect a large following) without citing the Tanach, Gemara, or other sources in their rulings. (Incidentally, the notion of using facts to back up opinions on this board doesn't seem to be in vogue these days, perhaps the posters here should be on the rabbinical councils by your logic.) Discussion is not permitted and if you want to call me anti-Semitic for saying that go ahead. As we've established, I'm not an ultra-Orthodox Jew, and I don't maintain that the religion has to be followed as supposedly instructed to Moses on Sinai. No one is going to tell me that I don't have the right to think for myself. No one has denied you that right, but you also don't have the right to post complete and utter lies and unfactual statements and get upset when people question them and oppose them with facts based in reality. Who isn't permitting discussion now? |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Nov 26 13:29:52 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by R40SlantontheB on Fri Nov 25 22:32:35 2011. Just because Nassau is getting screwed doesn't make it alright for city residents to get screwed (albiet in a different manner) |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by Mr RT on Wed Nov 30 13:50:36 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 23 11:06:29 2011. Well, you should N-O-T post here if you are not a bus fan to some extent !I say this because of the extent of the criticism you get from others here, and your many posts in defense of your position, i.e. you are talking to the wrong audience by posting here, unless you want their critique ... if so then you should accept it based on where it is coming from & not feel the need to try & change their opinion ... i.e. they don't look at buses and bus service the same way you apparently look at it ! I come here mainly to ... learn ... news, and happenings that I don't necessarly get internally ... I've done that for years & because of my questions on the old SubTalk I was one of the reasons BusTalk was started ... to get the "bus stuff" off of SubTalk. Uncle Dave did it as a favor ... What I learn here is valuable to me ... and I've made a number of busfan friends over the years too. At the August museum trip many saw me checking bracelets. I wore a yellow vest, but wasn't paid to be there. I rode several of the old buses with some friends, so I guess that makes me a bus fan to some extent. Last year I even posted several photos I took. |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 1 12:12:09 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by Mr RT on Wed Nov 30 13:50:36 2011. First of all, it depends how you define a bus fan. To me it is someone who is obsessed with the bus vehicle itself and the various models and manufacturers. I would consider myself obsessed with bus routes and service. To me that is not a traditional bus fan, since my knowledge though wide in certain areas is very limited in others. I become interested in transportation in other areas only after personally visiting there. I wouldn't pick up a book or map to study routes in cities where I have never been. A true bus fan would. I have very little interest in the specific models of buses although I have attended bus rodeos and bus vests and took only one subway fan trip in my life.As far as posting here, I never saw any rule that you had to be a bus fan. I get far less criticism and more support on NYC Transit Forums than I do here. They are also bus fans, but I believe that many of them over there are more intelligent than those here. That is evidenced by the lack of flame wars there and more sticking to the issues than on this forum. But I post here also to reach as die an audience as possible and also to learn about news events that are posted here. Some of the criticism I get here is intelligent and I enjoy conversing with those individuals, but not with some of them who cannot argue a point intelligently. As far as trying to change someone's mind, that is not possible when you are dealing with someone who will not open up their mind to accept new information and are convinced they are right no matter what evidence is presented to them, some of which they will refuse to even read, but have no problem in offering an opinion to something they admit they never even read. For those people there is no hope. (first paragraph should read bus fests not bus vests. iPad changes words it doesnt know if you don't catch it right away.) |
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Thu Dec 1 12:17:36 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 1 12:12:09 2011. I will say this much.. I'm a bus fan for my obsession to bus routes and to a certain degree looking at new bus models. I hope that to whoever determines the defination of a bus fan still considers me a bus fan (lol). I hope these personal badgering will end on these threads. It kills the fun of being apart, writing, or even reading a thread. |
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