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| Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System (249534) | |||
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Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Nov 26 12:16:19 2011, in response to Re: How the MTA is Destroying the Local Bus System, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Nov 25 10:37:48 2011. what are the chances that an ordinary person who is offended by being asked to change seats would ever bother to make an issue of it?If they are truly offended, very high. That is my point. It seems as if this reporter was looking to make a story where one didn't necessarily exist. Infiltrating other communities to force them to change their ways when it doesn't negatively impact anyone is wrong. That is the point of the article I posted about the fact that ultimately, the ultra-Orthodox community is going to need to demand the changes from within itself. If only ultra-Orthodox people are on board the bus, what does it matter to you or anyone else how they sit? When I asked you to demonstrate that regular travelers use this bus and would be negatively impacted by this policy, you failed to come up with any examples. (It should be noted that other posters did provide examples in response to the questions I was actually asking.) It doesn't trouble you that a reporter who might just have something against Jews would go on the B110 on a secondhand hunch to write a story that paints all Jews as practicing this sort of custom? Are you aware of the fact that many people who hold misconceptions about Judaism or downright anti-Semitic views pick up these opinions from hearsay and/or inaccurate media reports? Obviously, if people are being asked to conform to the separated seating scheme against their own volition, that is a problem, but if no one is being hurt by it, why should you or anyone else care? Until someone can prove otherwise, I am under the assumption based on the way the original article was written that this reporter was not following up a previous incident or personal experience based on legitimate travel (i.e. needing to go from point A to point B, not to do their own work) and had no business interfering with a custom that seems to have no negative impact on anyone outside the ultra-Orthodox community. Get the difference now? It just proves that I was not the only one to come to the conclusion of brainwashing. Um, who else came to that conclusion? Yes, they can apologize and deny all they want, but I don't buy it. That doesn't mean anyone is being brainwashed. You just don't make a blanket rule that every women cannot be shown in a newspaper photograph. That is plain ridiculous to suggest that a picture of any woman is sexually suggestive to men. If that were the case, photography of women should just be banned. Why would it be okay to display a picture of a woman in someone's house where it can be seen by all visitors, but not in a newspaper? I suggest before trying to continue this sort of conversation in vain, you actually take the time to learn a little bit about the modesty rules that these ultra-Orthodox communities abide by (rightly or wrongly), and try to understand where they are coming from. Try to see things from their point of view. If you are unwilling or unable, that would be an example of why some of us here think you are stubborn. No one is asking you to agree with the other side, but you seem to have a complete inability to even consider why other people might want to have a point of view different from your own. I could understand their reasoning if they were objecting to the type of dress she was wearing, saying it was suggestive because it was too tight or too low cut. That would make sense if it were banned for religious reasons, but not to ban any photograph of a woman. This is about as ridiculous when you said you wouldn't have a problem with a left/right divide on the seating on the bus but you objected to a front/back split. You can't have it both ways. The argument from an ultra-Orthodox rabbi on this would be that it is easier to make a blanket rule to start determining what sort of clothing is suggestive, since not everyone is turned on by the same sorts of appearances. How do you make a religious law that takes that into account without it being a blanket prohibition? There are just too many inconsistencies in Orthodox Judaism for it to appeal to me. You are entitled to your opinion, but you aren't entitled to insult those who do practice ultra-Orthodox Judaism or who are more observant than you are. For someone complaining about others being brainwashed, you have some pretty strong preconceived notions about the way people are based on their opinions are about certain topics (again, maybe this is why some of us think you are stubborn). Basically it is just a Board of Rabbis who can make any decision they want which must be obeyed, based on illogical reasoning, just to suit their purposes and give any reasons they want which cannot be challenged. Your ignorance is astounding, no board of Rabbis can make decisions (and expect a large following) without citing the Tanach, Gemara, or other sources in their rulings. (Incidentally, the notion of using facts to back up opinions on this board doesn't seem to be in vogue these days, perhaps the posters here should be on the rabbinical councils by your logic.) Discussion is not permitted and if you want to call me anti-Semitic for saying that go ahead. As we've established, I'm not an ultra-Orthodox Jew, and I don't maintain that the religion has to be followed as supposedly instructed to Moses on Sinai. No one is going to tell me that I don't have the right to think for myself. No one has denied you that right, but you also don't have the right to post complete and utter lies and unfactual statements and get upset when people question them and oppose them with facts based in reality. Who isn't permitting discussion now? |
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