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| (680390) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 22:57:38 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 22:52:47 2008. What UP subdivision was this on? I'm trying to find it, and I know it should be in this thread, but I can't pinpoint it.I know this is a tragedy, but I really hope that this isn't something like the Chase, MD wreck (the Conrail E/R in that crash ended up serving 4 years in prison). |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 22:58:19 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 22:56:48 2008. LAPD is already reporting at least 20. |
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| (680393) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 22:58:52 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 22:51:20 2008. Hmm...if some of those experts should come up this way, they'd be s****ing themselves - MNRR and NJT have trains that go WAY faster than Metrolink trains in push mode on a daily basis. The trick here is that both of these agencies don't have to deal with nearly as many grade crossings as Metrolink does. |
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| (680394) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 22:58:56 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 22:56:38 2008. I looked at some of the photos and it appears that the two trailing cars are still on the tracks unscathed. Only the leading car was damaged, although it basically engulfed the entire locomotive. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 22:59:44 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 22:56:38 2008. I know this sounds sensitive, but the FRA should require crashworthiness standards to be improved such that a passenger car can be in reasonably good shape if the locomotive were to hit another train, instead of the telescoping that rendered the first car essentially a coffin. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Sep 12 23:00:07 2008, in response to **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 20:01:24 2008. "**Breaking News** - Metrolink "Say no more. I send my prayers. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:00:13 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 22:56:38 2008. The funny thing is that whenever I ride trains, I TEND to sit as close to the front as possible. That seems to be the most dangerous point. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:01:08 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 22:58:56 2008. Is it just me, or does it look like the locomotive was smashed into the lead car, essentially obliterating it? I could see Metrolink in the future not using the front car behind the locomotive from now on. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:02:52 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 22:59:44 2008. That is why they should use frames. And we don't even know how fast the trains were moving yet... |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Ken S. on Fri Sep 12 23:04:27 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:01:08 2008. That's what it looks like to me. I know Metrolink can use those NJT Comets they want as buffer cars. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 23:04:36 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 22:57:38 2008. I don't think this will come close to the Chase, MD wreck - on the job weed use, criminal negligence in the operation of a freight locomotive, and inadequate signaling all converged to produce that disaster.To me, having two trains end up in a showdown on a single track line suggests that whatever investigation needs to focus on who's responsible for governing train movements on that line (dispatching, signaling, the whold nine.) |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 23:05:03 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:02:52 2008. You honestly think that using "frames" can prevent a F59PH from basically demolishing an entire passenger car? |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 23:05:03 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:01:08 2008. The loco was shoved anywhere from halfway to two thirds of the way into the first passenger car according to on scene reports. I've only seen them pull out maybe 20-30 people that were alive in that car. Depending on how many got out themselves before the news showed up there could be quite a few that unfortunately didn't make it. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:05:57 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 20:35:38 2008. I saw two unit numbers: 123 (possibly 125) and 207 (sure). Not sure which took the impact; looks like 207 is upright but one end in dirt. Can't tell if there was a cab car (6xx) involved; too much wreckage.wayne |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:06:51 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 23:05:03 2008. However, perhaps design improvements can be made in future designs so that the damage is less severe. This is not a comment on the integrity of existing rolling stock...just a comment on the remains of the first car here. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:07:33 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Ken S. on Fri Sep 12 23:04:27 2008. But I bet those comets would rip those multilevels to SHREDS as well. They need to buy real railcars, not those Canadian bulliners.Just like if they used an old pullman car as a "buffer", what do you think would happen? I'd say the best thing to do would be to employ better signalling, since these chitliners fold up even at lower speeds. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:07:36 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 23:05:03 2008. And this is a car designed for 140? |
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| (680410) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:08:36 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 23:04:36 2008. The track is owned by Union Pacific, but Metrolink dispatches that section of the Coast Line. |
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| (680411) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:10:26 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 23:04:36 2008. I agree, But did you know only 14 passengers were killed, and two crew members, on the MD crash?And this wreck is close to topping it. Those BUDDs did a good job protecting passengers. Most passengers died from the fire, not the actual trauma. If you ever look at an amfleet, you can see it has good collision posts with reinforcements. The fact that these Bilevels are so big makes it easier to penetrate them, however, and the lack of reinforcement doesn't make it any better. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:11:39 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 22:58:52 2008. However...there is much better signaling in the Northeast than in SoCal for railroads. Does ATS exist on every commuter line in the Northeast...maybe except for the CSX Brunswick and Camden lines and the part of the Worcester Line owned by CSX? |
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| (680414) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Chicagopcclcars on Fri Sep 12 23:13:02 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:05:57 2008. From TO Three L.A. Times pics show UP 8485 that pushed SCEX metro loco 855 backwards in to the first car, Coach 185, of train #111. The 855 is 80%TO poster also reporting Metrolink engineer a fatality. David |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:13:26 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 23:05:03 2008. If engineered properly, of course they can. And you just flipped the script: the F59PH was pulling the train;it didn't hit it, which makes ths telescoping even stranger. By the looks of it; the jacknifing action of the freight cars would have made the situation better, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, since it would prevent the loco from actually ENTERING the car, but that didn't occur, so I guess it is uselss to speculate. |
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| (680418) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 23:17:18 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:11:39 2008. True.Not sure is ATS is so widespread up here. Perhaps someone from out in the MD area could better address the situation on the CSX Brunswick and Camden Lines (the later being the CSX Capitol Subdivision, IINM). And likewise for the Worcester Line. |
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| (680419) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 23:17:19 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:13:26 2008. If engineered properly, of course they can.That's true, but at what cost? The car would essentially have to be designed along the lines of an armored tank to achieve such, as you would say, "robustness." What's needed is a better signaling system to ensure that these types of crashes don't happen in the first place. And you just flipped the script: the F59PH was pulling the train;it didn't hit it, which makes ths {sic} telescoping even stranger. Did you even look at the photos of the disaster? The F59PH was pulling the train. It hit UP 8485 head-on, which caused the F59PH to telescope backwards into the leading car. |
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| (680422) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:19:31 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Chicagopcclcars on Fri Sep 12 23:13:02 2008. Yes, that's a confirm - coach that telescoped is #185. Hard to tell the digits from a distance.wayne |
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| (680423) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:20:41 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 23:17:19 2008. My fault for even mentioning this. However, as others have said, lawsuits for wrongful death hopefully will force UP and BNSF to install ATS. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:23:16 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Sep 12 21:51:42 2008. But a CSX locomotive *could* appear in LA.ROAR |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:24:21 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 21:51:59 2008. BNSF is our provider.CP and CN also operate through here. There are also several regionals. ROAR |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:26:02 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:23:16 2008. To be fair, I thought CSX was the operator, since they are famous for having off-road trains.But UP is a good operator, no? In this situation, it seems the UP train had the rights to be movning I'm thinking, just like others, that the Metrolink train went against the switch. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:26:59 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:24:21 2008. What is Canadian National, and Canadian pacific doning there?That is something I never fully understood. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Sep 12 23:27:25 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 22:59:44 2008. The first - or last - cars are usually in for the worst in a collision, although the first car seems to fare better on derailments. But anyway, in high-speed collisions, it's basically curtains. The best thing is not to have a collision in the first place, especially not over 10-15 mph. Look at what happened to the Amfleets in a moderately speedy collision. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:29:20 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 22:55:55 2008. With a proper interlocking plant, it would (should) not have been possible for the dispatcher to align a single track for two opposing trains.Calif probly has never ever even *seen* a proper interlocking plant. ROAR |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Chicagopcclcars on Fri Sep 12 23:29:22 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:23:16 2008. LION, you know absolutely that K-Car was in a mad rush to blame using his usual phrasesSHAME! That BASTARD company CSX should NEVER ... and merely proved what an idiot he is and now he thinks we'll forget it he keeps posting on and on.....some of us WILL NEVER FORGET. You would do better joining in the STFU chorus...gthat seems the only way. David |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Sep 12 23:32:55 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:10:26 2008. Asshole, how many people were in the head car in the Chase, MD collision? |
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| (680440) | |
Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 12 23:34:46 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:26:59 2008. Read up on the history of railroads, particularly in the merger era (1965 onwards), and you will understand. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 12 23:36:32 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 12 20:35:38 2008. while push-pull has become controversial in SoCal, IMHO, when all is sorted out, we still should look seriously @ requiring cab signals/ATS on ALL routes w/ passenger services. Forcing compliance w/signal indications can't hurt and CAN prevent tragedies such as today. I am saddened at the needless casualties. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Sep 12 23:37:23 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 21:45:34 2008. You sound like a freakin retard! |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 23:39:03 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 21:35:48 2008. What's up with the soldier in this pic?!? |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 12 23:39:15 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:20:41 2008. However, as others have said, lawsuits for wrongful death hopefully will force UP and BNSF to install ATS.Which would scare the Class 1s and other freight railway operators from hosting passenger service due to the costs of installing ATS equipment on their freight locomotives. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:41:46 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Sep 12 23:27:25 2008. Yep, that diner was Moorgated and Coach 21236 didn't fare much better.=w= |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Sep 12 23:42:03 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Easy on Fri Sep 12 22:58:19 2008. WTF, FRA Tier II crash standards are supposed to prevent that sort of death toll. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:44:15 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 22:03:50 2008. Bear in mind that is a broad 90 degree curve there, and the freight was just coming out of a short tunnel. Obviously, someone was asleep at the switch. NTSB will get it sussed out as to who's at fault.-w- |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:44:34 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 12 23:39:15 2008. Then the Class Is could always choose to lease the lines to passenger lines, which could also get them out of property taxes. Norfolk Southern has done just that with its track that hosts the Port Jervis line (maintenance is now done by the MTA). |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:45:03 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Sep 12 23:32:55 2008. I don't know. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Sep 12 23:45:37 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 12 23:20:41 2008. You do realize that ATS doesn't actually stop the train. It informs the engineer that he has passed a non-CLEAR signal, which then requires an acknowledgment.What would help is cab signals, but I don't know how many of UP's western pool engine are equipped. CSS is a HUGE hassle, especially with small isolated segments. Instead of just running freight through you have to stop and change engines. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Ken S. on Fri Sep 12 23:46:44 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:45:03 2008. Then do us all a favor and SHUT UP. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 12 23:47:11 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Fri Sep 12 23:26:59 2008. SOO Line was *always* a Canadian subsidiary. There are others. Presently CP and CN are in a race to make viable north-south routes between Canada and Mexico.ROAR |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Sep 12 23:47:16 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Sep 12 23:39:15 2008. It's not clear what went wrong to cause today's collision. That said, FRA does have a rule regarding certain classes of track to have ATC at 80+ mph. (Of course, with cases like Chase, MD and Mount Vernon, NY, not even ATC works if your engineer (and in the latter case, the dispatchers) is a drug addict who's high). Possibly, especially with rail traffic projected to increase, lower rated classes of track - regardless of what's being hauled - should have their interlocking designs scrutinized and use ATC. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Sep 12 23:47:21 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:19:31 2008. This is the second time these Bomber coaches have failed to live up to impacts. Shows you what happens when you buy French. |
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Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Sep 12 23:47:52 2008, in response to Re: **Breaking News** - Metrolink Train collides with freight train, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Sep 12 23:44:15 2008. Exactly, black boxes tell all. |
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