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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 9 12:43:37 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by stephenk on Sun Sep 9 01:57:54 2007. This ain't Japan. The only thing we both do is point to the c/r's board. That is where the idea came from. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 9 13:03:03 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 15:23:32 2007. Last time I checked, 42nd Street Times Square connected to the Port Authority. The terminal extends from 8th Avenue to 9th AvenueThere is no 10th Avenue stop due to costs but with the shell, it can be added if funds become available. I am guessing that if the area takes off maybe even a developer would pay for the station if they build a new office tower. (Remember- if a developer adds entrances to the subway they can build a bigger building.) |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 13:25:17 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 9 13:03:03 2007. Last time I checked, 42nd Street Times Square connected to the Port Authority. The terminal extends from 8th Avenue to 9th AvenueBrilliant. And the Times Square station is under 7th. If the 7 train wasn't being extended right past the PABT, I wouldn't make such an issue of it. It'd be like if we had a 34th Street crosstown subway going right past with no NYP stop and you had to go all the way to 6th or 9th Avenues. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Sep 9 13:29:49 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 9 13:03:03 2007. It's still not out of the question that the station won't be built.If a deal doesn't come together right now, MTA could begin an EIS process for the FTA. Given that the extension itself and the Javits station is funded, once construction begins, MTA could start the formal process of getting federal money for an "in-fill" station. WMATA used federal funds to pay for a portion of the New York Av-Florida Av-Gaulladet Univ station on the Red Line in DC. This is an example of an "in-fill" station added to an existing line. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 9 15:25:45 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 13:25:17 2007. When NJT is done with its NYP project it *will* extend from 6th to 9th Avenues.ROAR |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Sun Sep 9 15:46:37 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:26:07 2007. IAWTPHaving walked through this passageway plenty of times, it's far better from transfering to the Shuttle to the PABT. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Sep 9 18:14:45 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Sep 8 16:22:46 2007. When I was doing IRT schedules, there were actually 2 dropbacks at T/Sq Qns on the Flushing Line in the AM and PM, and during the midday there was always 1. Due to the frequency of service and passenger volume on the Flushing Line, It is a necessity to have a dropback crew in place during peak periods. By rhe way, once the new terminal at So/Fy is built, it will require at least one additional train and 2 addtional crews since the logistics at the new terminal will preclude crews from taking their own trains back to V/C during peak periods and the time it takes to dump the train and recharge will definitely mandate at least the 1 additional train in the car requirements. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Sep 9 18:17:57 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by stephenk on Sun Sep 9 02:20:06 2007. That right there precludes their successful installation here, as the MTA's track record for preventive maintenance is somewhere below zero. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sun Sep 9 18:44:12 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 9 15:25:45 2007. When NJT is done with its NYP project it *will* extend from 6th to 9th Avenues.Now all that's needed is thirty car trains to fit such a station... |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 18:47:39 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 9 15:25:45 2007. When NJT is done with its NYP projectThey haven't even started, yet. And if/when they get done, the NEC will fall apart. Were you aware that its present configuration will do nothing to solve the current congestion problem in the North River Tunnels and NYP, but instead exacerbate it? |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 9 20:01:50 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by 33rd Street on Sun Sep 9 15:46:37 2007. Thank you. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Sep 9 20:28:27 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 8 11:08:07 2007. It's not really a waste of money at all. Other valid reasons were mentioned, but this approach also allows for a climate-controlled platform. I've stood on enough bitter-cold platforms in winter and on enough near-boiling-hot platforms in summer to appreciate the value of a fully-enclosed platform. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 9 21:01:27 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sun Sep 9 18:44:12 2007. ROFLMAO! |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 9 21:02:24 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 18:47:39 2007. No. I was not aware. Do tell.ROAR |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Sep 9 21:44:30 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 9 18:14:45 2007. Gee, additional trains in the schedule, additional crews to keep said trains on schedule, frequent train service -- all of this saids "really bad" for the riding public. Thanks for the information.I could have sworn that the expressed opinion (by some members of this forum) on this new terminal was that it would be the worst disaster since the building of the subway system itself. Mike |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Sun Sep 9 21:51:45 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 9 20:01:50 2007. You're welcome. Just agreeing with someone who knows what he is saying. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 22:35:32 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by 33rd Street on Sun Sep 9 15:46:37 2007. You're another one that misses the point, with all due respect. It does not make sense to not build a stop immediately adjacent to PABT (I suggested 9th Avenue) when the subway is being extended right past the bus terminal. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Sep 9 23:00:13 2007, in response to (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Sep 8 03:20:30 2007. good. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Sep 10 00:27:26 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 22:35:32 2007. We see your point - and it's wrong. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 10 02:29:09 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Sep 10 00:27:26 2007. Knock it off, huh? |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 10 03:36:11 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 9 21:02:24 2007. Yup, 'tis true. The new tunnels will go to the new six tracks/platforms solely and give no access to the original 21 tracks of NYP. The original NYP and North River Tunnels will stay as they are, and as congested as they are. On top of that, NJT still plans to "double the number of trains into Manhattan" as advertised. There will be no quarter . . . |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 10 03:37:28 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sun Sep 9 10:10:36 2007. Why backtrack? |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 10 03:38:54 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Sep 9 20:28:27 2007. The money doesn't end with the initial capital cost, you know. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:24:59 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by MJF on Sat Sep 8 14:03:01 2007. 'That's not as accurate as stickling your head over the platform edge and looking down the tracks. That's what makes the train arrive faster. It's a New York tradition.'And it also makes it much harder for you to kill yourself when wither (a) you overbalance on to the track or (b) you look the wrong way and a trains sneaks up behind you and hits your head. Well, not you, because you are a railfan, but stoopid passengers. You know a train is coming into the platform because you can see it - the platform doors and the barriers in between the doors have glass in them.... |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:31:28 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Sep 8 16:02:03 2007. 'just because something works there doesn't mean that it will necessarily work here.'Ah, the attitude that has given Hew York all its wonderful nineteenth-cenrtury technology (8-) ! |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:35:03 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007. 'The definition of service to (destination) does not require the (destination) to be exactly at the station''More lies.' So, the only residents served by the subway are those whose house is right next door to a subway station? |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:37:11 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 08:36:08 2007. 'And then wait for the car type to change...'Well, on the Jubilee Line they had to get new cars to fit the platform doors - and then threw away the previous Jubilee Line cars, which were less than 20 years old, while keeping much older ones in service on other lines... Duh. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:48:42 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Michael549 on Sat Sep 8 12:09:26 2007. "It's most effective when used completely throughout the system, and of course would be required for any ZPTO type operation."'I am curious and wonder about how such doors could be installed and operated on the numerous elevated stations in the system' Factual information: the outdoor stations on The Jubilee Line Extension in London (Canning Town and Stratford) do *not* have platform doors. The underground ones (Westminster to North Greenwich inclusive) do. Neither does the Docklands Light Railway, which has ATO, but has one staff member on each train, but zero staff members on most stations. I'm not sure what the figures for fatalities from people falling off platforms on the DLR in its 20-year history are, but I certainly don't remember seeing many reports of same. Pace the Paris Metro, ZPTO is pointless. Even if the trains *do* in fact drive themselves, one staff member per train is a relatively inexpensive way of reassuring the passengers. Better to save money on fare-collection systems and do away with people in booths instead. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:53:01 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 15:22:15 2007. '..and put hard-working people out of work.'Capitalism is doing that with great efficiency at the moment by means of 'globalisation', aka expeorting jobs to China, which being the communist 'enemy', can supply large fleets of cheap docile labour. 'Get your head out of the 60s-type fantasy world.' Exactly. Everyone knows that the NYCT system should be run by 1900s technology, as Nature intended. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:58:48 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 17:26:32 2007. '..the answer is to enlarge the passageway and equip it with a moving sidewalk...'Cue Rail Blue, to show his picture of the one at Montparnasse-Bienvenue on tha Paris metro, originally two separate stations. We also need one between Kings Cross/St Pancras and Euston in London, to facilitate transfers from Liverpool, Birmingham and Manchester to the Eurostar. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 10 07:05:45 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 22:35:32 2007. You're wrong. Besides - 9 Av is a terrible place for a station for PABT. Most people want to be at the 8 Av end of the PABT. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:07:16 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 13:25:17 2007. And the Times Square station is under 7th.The east end of the #7 TSQ station is under 7th. The west end is halfway to 8th Ave underneath 41st St. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 09:09:15 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 9 13:03:03 2007. There is no 10th Avenue stop due to costs but with the shell, it can be added if funds become available. I am guessing that if the area takes off maybe even a developer would pay for the station if they build a new office tower."If" the area takes off? Have you been at 42nd and 10th lately? There are some very large new residential buildings there and there is no sign that the construction boom in the neighborhood has come to an end. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:47:00 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 15:58:29 2007. If Hell's Kitchen got a subway station, however, the line would have to curve upward---in other words, the wrong way. 10th Avenue and 40 or 41 Street is NOT Hell's Kitchen. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:48:11 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 8 23:43:28 2007. Well...guess who is getting the jobs? |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:50:09 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 21:30:49 2007. Actually, one could cut the M104 line to Times Square...and eliminate the M42 as well (customers along 42 Street can use the streetcar). That is about 15-20 fewer buses needed, replaced by only 8-9 streetcars max. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Kid Twist on Mon Sep 10 09:50:15 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 15:22:15 2007. Right. Because the purpose of the subway system isn't to move passengers efficiently. It exists to employ as many people as possible . |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:51:37 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Sep 8 15:51:06 2007. It would be a waste of money, however. Just build an elevator at the west end, and a moving sidewalk, as others have said. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:52:46 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Kid Twist on Mon Sep 10 09:50:15 2007. HOWEVER, you do have the problem of the doors closing when persons are still in the passageway moving in and out of the car. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:55:52 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:31:28 2007. And the opposition of the electorate to congestion pricing...most of it on principle. (Someone off-line said that Bloomberg should try to claim it as a charge of a service, which the city can charge, instead of a toll or tax, which the city CANNOT charge, to not run afoul of state law, even if the courts have to get involved to define what services can be charged for.) |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:56:47 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007. Actually, give Ron this one. He is right, and yu0 are wrong. Hurts, doesn't it? |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:58:19 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 05:48:42 2007. Better to save money on fare-collection systems and do away with people in booths instead.And if people are expected to have fare payment beforehand, and all fare machines are broken? (This happens FREQUENTLY in the NYC subway.) |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 09:59:42 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:52:46 2007. 'HOWEVER, you do have the problem of the doors closing when persons are still in the passageway moving in and out of the car.'That 'passageway' is only a few inches long - the platform-edge doors align with the car doors, and they are within a few inches of the side of the car. It's impossible to be caught in between the car door and the platform door, even for an anorexic. If the car door hits you, the platform door does too, and vice versa. I assume - though I don't know - that the controls work in such a way that the platform doors and the car doors open simultaneously, and then they close simulaltaneously. That is certainly what happens on AirTrain and its equivalents at other airports, on the Jubilee Line Extension, on line 14 in Paris, and in St Petersburg - which are the only places where I've seen platform doors. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 10:01:39 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 09:59:42 2007. ...and on the PeopleMover in Atlanta. But do any have provisions to prevent closure while the passageway is still fouled? That is my question. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 10:07:52 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:58:19 2007. 'Better to save money on fare-collection systems and do away with people in booths instead.''And if people are expected to have fare payment beforehand, and all fare machines are broken? (This happens FREQUENTLY in the NYC subway.)' There are lots of ways that are used, if you look around the world. One of the best: sell tickets, cards, tokens (whatever) in stores - useful extra trade for small mom-and-pop businesses. Make vandal-proof machines, or have a really quick-response repair service. Have conductors selling tickets on the train - Sheffield (UK) went back to that on their LRV system, when the ticket machines proved unreliable. Use smartcards that can be recharged with value over the Internet or by phone. Or just use a variety of these methods combined with a reduced number of real people in booths, to service those passengers who are desperate, or constitutionally incapable of thinking ahead. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Pelham R62A on Mon Sep 10 10:12:50 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 10:07:52 2007. I like the smartcard idea. I think that could be the future of the MetroCard. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Sep 10 10:25:12 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Pelham R62A on Mon Sep 10 10:12:50 2007. 'I like the smartcard idea. I think that could be the future of the MetroCard.'Well, it has worked well in London - something like 80% of all London travellers now use Oyster cards, and most of the rest (like me) are probably using tickets from National Rail stations that incorporate Tube travel on the same ticket. The number of single-journey tickets sold, from machines or from real people, has dropped dramatically - with, of course, the large incentive that the single cash fares are extortionately expensive. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Sep 10 10:31:38 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 10 03:37:28 2007. I'd say it was more like sidetracking. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 10:32:18 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 09:58:19 2007. And if people are expected to have fare payment beforehand, and all fare machines are broken? (This happens FREQUENTLY in the NYC subway.)It happens frequently? It has happened to me once in all the time NYCT has had fare machines. |
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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Sep 10 10:34:35 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 10 10:32:18 2007. I have been at entrances where all of the machines are broken, very frequently. Poster R30A can vouch for this too. |
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