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| Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! (480189) | |
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| (482144) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 27 16:36:09 2007, in response to The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by E Line Fan on Sun Aug 26 20:46:44 2007. There never was a "QQ." I rode the first R-27 when the Brighton Lcl was running to Ctl and the trains were always signed "QT" for locals operating vis tunnel and "QB" for locals operating via bridge. When the R-27s were first delivered, the BMT service pattern of weekend Brighton Locals operating express in Manhattan was still being operated and these trains carried "QB" signs. Unlike the IND which considered a train to be an "express" carrying a single letter designation if it ran express anywhere on its route, the BMT did just the opposite and thue trains operating local on the Brighton Line were designated as "Brighton Locals" even thought they ran express in Manhattan. Since the roll signs on the R-27s referred to the trains as "Bway-Brighton" rather than just plain "Brighton" it presented a bit of confusion to the passengers. This was further complicated with the R-32s which simply referred to all the services as "Broadway" with the branch line nsme eliminated. At that point, all Brighton Locals operated local in Manhattan as well as Brooklyn. |
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| (482152) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 27 16:51:35 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 27 16:36:09 2007. One difference between the BMT lines in Manhattan and the IND subway system, was that the BMT lines had one major 4-track operation in Manhattan, the BMT-Broadway line, while the IND had the 8th Avenue and 6th Avenue services.Since the BMT-Broadway line was the major route that was feed by trunk lines in Brooklyn, it made more sense to emphasize the trunk routes where the trains originated and returned. Yes, the Canarsie and Brooklyn-Broadway lines existed, but their presence in Manhattan was simply not as great as the BMT-Broadway line. For example, the QT and QB lines could mention either "Tunnel" or "Bridge" and the riders would know what that meant. For example saying "Tunnel" or "Bridge" as a description for any of the IRT routes would puzzle the most knowledge-able IRT rider. (Now only the #1 route uses a bridge to travel between the boroughs. A Few transit fans can also point out that all of the IRT "El's" routes used bridges to reach another borough.) A statement such as "Tunnel" or "Bridge" (until 1967) would have made no sense to the regular IND rider. Even after 1967 such a statement would still not make much sense to such a rider. Mike |
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| (482157) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 27 17:17:21 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 27 16:51:35 2007. However, the only division which had trains in the same service which could travel between the trunk line and the branch lines by 2 different routes was the BMT Southern Division. The Canarsie Line could only access Manhattan via the North 7 St tube and the Jamaica Line could only access Nassau St via the Willy B. The same is true of the other divisions. All trains on any given line travel between boroughs via only one means, either a bridge or tunnel but not both. While you are correct in saying that the terms "bridge" or "tunnel" would be meaningless to an IND rider, passengers using th BMT Bway Subway would still need to know this information. It was actually less neccessary to specify bridge or tunnel on lines which only ran via one or the other full time. the only service in later years that utilized both routes at varying times of day was the Brighton Local. Otherwise under normal circumstances, all BMT B'way expresses operated via bridge at all times and the 4 Av Lcl operated via the tunnel at all times. I have noticed that the signs on the R-160 don't display "via tunnel" but say "via Whitehall" when the N operates via the tunnel. Actually, the IND did utilize a similar route qualifier when it added "Houston" to the side signs of trains which operated via the Houston St route. |
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| (482233) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 27 20:14:53 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 11:06:16 2007. It should..It never existed. |
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| (482411) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Aug 28 02:24:54 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 11:06:16 2007. But not as obscene as (TT). |
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| (482494) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 08:49:11 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by SMAZ on Tue Aug 28 02:24:54 2007. Or (PP) <PP> |
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| (482516) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 28 09:31:38 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 27 16:51:35 2007. Since the BMT-Broadway line was the major route that was feed by trunk lines in Brooklyn, it made more sense to emphasize the trunk routes where the trains originated and returned.The BMT Company emphasized only the Brooklyn route. The Standards and D-Types signs read "Sea Beach Express", "West End Express", etc. with no mention of Broadway. Since there was only one major Manhattan route the approach was that the train went via Broadway unless indicated otherwise. Nassau st trains were signed "via Nassau St". The Standards had two sign boxes on each side of the train - the top sign curtain of one indicated the route and the top curtain of the other indicated "via Tunnel", "via Bridge", or "Via Nassau St"*. The D-Types had "Tunnel" and "Bridge" lighted glass panels on their sides. *Loop trains used 2 possible signs: one read: "Via Tunnel thru Nassau Loop Via Bridge to Brooklyn" (3 lines) the other read:"Via Bridge thru Nassau Loop Via Tunnel to Brooklyn" |
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| (482526) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 28 10:12:26 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 08:49:11 2007. "Take a PP against the wall."O-K. |
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| (482605) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 12:33:43 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 28 10:12:26 2007. "This PP is being held for connection." |
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| (482618) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Tue Aug 28 13:14:22 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 12:33:43 2007. of course, the FF actually made its way into popular culture, on 'F Troop'.Anyone remember the 'Burglar from BanFF'? |
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| (482631) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 13:37:09 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Tue Aug 28 13:14:22 2007. FF has another, more esoteric meaning. It involves hands and nether regions. Draw your own pictures. |
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| (482700) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 28 15:25:15 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Tue Aug 28 13:14:22 2007. Fumble-fingered officers. |
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| (482701) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 28 15:25:34 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 12:33:43 2007. Hey, when you gotta go, you gotta go. |
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| (482769) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 28 18:08:49 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 28 09:31:38 2007. The earlier steels with the small signs merely had the designation "Nassau St" in the sign box since the more comprehensive description on the larger signs didn't fit. |
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| (488988) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Tue Sep 11 03:08:35 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Aug 28 08:49:11 2007. How about (FF) |
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| (489097) | |
Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)! |
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Posted by vfrt on Tue Sep 11 12:12:25 2007, in response to Re: The (Q) and the (QQ) Re: Say, I Miss The (EE)!, posted by E Line Fan on Tue Sep 11 03:08:35 2007. 'FF' was on the R-1/9 series rollsigns, but was never used. A while back a poster stated that he saw 'FF' on an a specific R-44 (or 46?)train set back in the 1970s. I think his memory is faulty, he may have seen 'EE'. I've never seen any other reference anywhere, on any transit website. to 'FF' signage on a R-44/46. |
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