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| Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 (1627805) | |
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| (1627805) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 09:15:02 2023 Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 1920 – from The Book of First Runs The IRT Livonia Avenue Line is extended from Utica Avenue to Junius Street. 1940 – from The Book of First Runs The Newark City Subway is extended one stop from Heller Parkway to Franklin Avenue. (Ed. Note: Today Heller Parkway is closed but extant. Franklin Avenue station was rebuilt and re-named Branch Brook Park.) One of the worst collisions in the history of the Long Island Railroad occurred on Thanksgiving Eve during the PM Rush. Train No. 780, an eastbound Hempstead Branch train had its brakes lock up while on the Mainline in the vicinity of Richmond Hill, New York. It was struck from behind by a twelve car Babylon Express, No. 174. 79 passengers were killed and over 300 injured.The lead car of No. 174 was MP-54 1523 and it smashed into the rear car (No. 1516) of No. 780. Source: "Next Stop Grand Central" (Boston Mills Press) by Mr. Stan Fischler Source: Cudahy, Brian J. A Century of Subways (2003) , Fordham University Press (Ed. Note. This accident occurred on November 22, 1950. Thankgiving Day was on November 23 that year.) 1967 – from The Book of Last Runs CHRYSTIE STREET MINUS 4 This is Wednesday, November 22, 1967, one day before Thanksgiving and four days before the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway. Today will be the last day of operation the original “QB Broadway-Brighton Local via Bridge.” (BMT Route # 1 Brighton). The “QB” ran during weekday evenings and midnight hours and at all times on the weekends. It operated between Ditmars Boulevard, Astoria and Coney Island via the north side of the Manhattan Bridge making local stops. The last train probably operated sometime around 6 AM on Wednesday morning. For the next four days the “QT Broadway-Brighton Local via Tunnel” would run full time. Today will also be the last day of service between the BMT Southern Section and the Nassau Street Line via the south side of the Manhattan Bridge. Although the Fourth Avenue-Nassau Street trains (M/S)(BMT Route #2 4th Avenue) would operate for one more day on Friday, November 24 they will run via the tunnel on that day. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:26:35 2023, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 09:15:02 2023. When did the last T train run? I saw a post on Facwebook by one gentleman who said he rode on the last T train over the bridge on the 22nd. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 14:31:41 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:26:35 2023. When did the last T train run? I saw a post on Facwebook by one gentleman who said he rode on the last T train over the bridge on the 22nd. Steve: The last Broadway train over the bridge ran on Friday night, November 24, 1967. I was on that train and I believe that it was a "T". The "T" also ran on Saturday, November 25 between 57/7 and Coney Island. However it ran via the tunnel as did all the Broadway services that day. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 16:01:20 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 14:31:41 2023. IINM weekday T trains ran on an extended rush hour pattern until 8:00 PM or so. They didn't operate during middays, during which time the TT ran all the way to Coney Island.Depending on what time it was when that last Broadway train crossed the bridge, it might have been an N. I was in the cuty on the 24th! While I didn't ride on the BMT al all, I did experience my very first CPW express dash on a prewar D train. The following Monday, the R-32s took over base service. |
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| (1627845) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 23 05:59:11 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 16:01:20 2023. I was working the midnight at Astoria tower most of that week but that Saturday I was working City Hall tower and by that time all Bway service was operating via the tunnel. Also, from the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, I noticed that thr R-27/30s that had been the backbone of the Brighton Lcl service were now replaced with R-32s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 23 09:25:15 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 23 05:59:11 2023. IINM a numner of R-27/30s went over to the Three Stooges Division, where they took over on the JJ and the new QJ service. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Nov 23 09:46:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 23 05:59:11 2023. Made sense as those R32's were changed over to D's when the changes went into effect Saturday night into Sunday. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Nov 23 12:35:56 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Nov 23 09:46:49 2023. Made sense as those R32's were changed over to D's when the changes went into effect Saturday night into Sunday. That's exactly how it happened. I was at Coney Island that night. Brighton "QT"'s arriving at Coney Island were resigned as "D"'s with R-32's. Arriving "D"'s with R-1/9 became outbound "F"'s. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by gbs on Thu Nov 23 22:03:31 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Nov 23 12:35:56 2023. Right after Chrystie, I was standing on the Manhattan-bound platform at 63 Drive watching (in shock and disappointment) train after train of old, dirty, dingy 3-digit R1s and R4s going to Jamaica. Prior to that, Jamaica Yard had mostly the newer 4-digit R6s and R9s. The older trains had large one-piece storm-door windows, while the newer cars had split storm-door windows. R4:  R6:  |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 24 03:03:05 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Nov 23 12:35:56 2023. Depending on the car numbers, some arriving S/B Ds coming off the Culver were sent into Stillwell Yd reversed and sent back over the Brighton Line to return as Ds to restock Concourse Yd. I was working the midnight at Creek tower that morning and was notified if an arriving D had to be transferred off the Culver to the Brighton. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 24 10:03:35 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Thu Nov 23 22:03:31 2023. As a kid, I aways wondered how the "Chicken Wire " got in the glass, never thinking it was laminated, as a kid.
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 10:05:52 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Thu Nov 23 22:03:31 2023. The newest R9s were only 27 years old at the time of Christie St. The oldest R1s were 10 years older and looked it. To Brighton line riders though they were all ancient. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 24 10:17:43 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 10:05:52 2023. Line them up next to shinny R32s & R38s and they sure looked ancient. And when they slapped that Ronan Blue and silver paint job on some of them, they looked even worse |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 11:27:42 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Thu Nov 23 22:03:31 2023. 401 amd 1300 from the museum fleet. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 11:28:28 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 10:05:52 2023. But they were newer than the Triplexes and BMT standards! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 11:29:58 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Nov 23 12:35:56 2023. The AA and D became predominantly R-32s literally overnight. I remember it well. |
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Re: Tusca Almac for Nov 22 Photos |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 24 11:51:31 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by gbs on Thu Nov 23 22:03:31 2023. I wish the triplexes had been retained and served along withthe R-1/9's. If for nothing else but the evolutionary aspects.   |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:44:47 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 24 10:17:43 2023. That silver and blue paint scheme worked well on the R21's and R-22. I agree with you that is looked positively horrible on the R-1-9. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tusca Almac for Nov 22 Photos |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:46:54 2023, in response to Re: Tusca Almac for Nov 22 Photos, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 24 11:51:31 2023. I liked the D-Types. Once the r-32's showed up they died in a hurry. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Nov 24 15:28:44 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 10:05:52 2023. I think the the carblighting was the key.Incandescent vs. florescent. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 15:50:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Nov 24 15:28:44 2023. That was definitely a major factor, along with the smell, the rough ride, the conductor position and the rattan seats. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 15:51:24 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:44:47 2023. It was lipstick on a pig. |
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| (1627938) | |
Re: Tusca Almac for Nov 22 Photos |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 17:38:46 2023, in response to Re: Tusca Almac for Nov 22 Photos, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:46:54 2023. The Triplexes could easily have lasted another ten years. It's just that the R-32s were being delivered so rapidly, they had to make room for them, so the Triplexes became sacrificial lambs. Besides, they were labeled as, "non-standard" with their articulating design, and the TA wanted to get rid of everything that was deemed non-standard. A crying shame, if you ask me. While the R-16s were put out of their misery, the Triplexes were sent to premature slaughter. |
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| (1627940) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 17:43:38 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 15:50:49 2023. But they had character and personality. Plus a marvelous cacaphony of moans, groans, grunts, snarls, hisses and throbbing air compressors, topped off with spur-cut gears that were quite literally music to my ears. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 17:44:57 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 15:51:24 2023. Thank God the BMT standards weren't around long enough for that paint job. Can you imagine how they had looked? |
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Re: T.A. for Nov 22 Photos |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 25 00:48:03 2023, in response to Re: Tusca Almac for Nov 22 Photos, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 24 11:51:31 2023. What's with the incoherent editing of words? |
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| (1627975) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Nov 25 04:15:29 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 11:29:58 2023. The way I had originally heard it was that the D was supposed to become 100% R-32 and the AA/B was supposed to be 100% R-1/9s. At some point it was changed so that both lines got some of each. |
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Re: T.A. for Nov 22 Photos |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Nov 25 07:14:01 2023, in response to Re: T.A. for Nov 22 Photos, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 25 00:48:03 2023. What's with the incoherent editing of words?Only incoherent to YOU. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Nov 25 07:23:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:44:47 2023. It would have been better if the R1/9's received a green paint job similar to the one the R-10's got.The Yellow MOW R/1/9's was cool.  Spotted the yellow Metro money train yesterday!  |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Nov 25 08:07:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Zac on Fri Nov 24 15:50:49 2023. That was definitely a major factor, along with the smell, the rough ride, the conductor position and the rattan seats.Would you prefer a hard, plastic seat over a rattan seat and seat back? What's a matter for you? 
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 08:27:05 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Sat Nov 25 04:15:29 2023. I don't ever remember seeing an R-1/9 AA after Chrystie St., but once in a great while I'd get a prewar D. Ironically, I rode on the IND old timers more times on the Lonesome Larry than on all IND routes combined. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Nov 25 14:56:40 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 08:27:05 2023. That means 168 were able to lay up the 8 car 1/9's from the B and were able to cutv4x4 the R32's also coming off the B. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sat Nov 25 15:14:16 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 17:43:38 2023. They were UGLY and square. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sat Nov 25 15:15:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:44:47 2023. The R1-9s would have looked horrible in any color scheme. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 15:37:26 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sat Nov 25 15:15:49 2023. Except their original dark green. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 15:38:41 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sat Nov 25 15:14:16 2023. When I first saw the BMT standards, I thought they were from another century. Mind you, this was back in 1967. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:11:32 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Nov 25 08:07:17 2023. When the rattan seats wore down, they tended to prick your thighs and butt. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:15:51 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 15:38:41 2023. I felt the same way about the Arnines in the early '70s, along with them being ugly, square, clunky, and dim. Not like the more modern R-32s, -38s,-40s, and especially -42s. We take fluorescent lighting and air conditioning for granted now! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:37:36 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:44:47 2023. The silver and blue scheme still looked better than the previous color: dirt. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 01:30:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Nov 25 14:56:40 2023. When I was a M/M in mid 1969, I worked the AA and had an 8 car train of R-1/9s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 01:41:10 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Nov 25 08:07:17 2023. Eventually, the R-7s and 9s assigned to the BMT Eastern got hard plastic seats and they were more uncomfortable than the ones on the R-27/30s that were original equipment. |
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| (1628049) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 02:21:42 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:15:51 2023. What is interesting about the design of the R-9s is that with the possible exception of the R-1s and R-4s, the design of the later series cars, R-6s through the actual R-9s was already out of date by the time those cars were ordered. The BMT’s Green Hornet, Zephyr and even the production Multis were of a much more modern design. Bullseye lighting like on cars 484 and 744 was also available at the time but the city refused to incorporate than into the cars’ designs. The Budd Co submitted a design for an all stainless steel R-9 and although I have yet to see an artist’s rendering of it, I can assume it was more modern than even the R-10s which came years later. I can only assume that it would have looked like the BMT Zephyr but with IND dimensions and door arrangements. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 26 06:47:57 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 26 01:41:10 2023. BMT Eastern got hard plastic seats and they were more uncomfortable.Think "Torcher Chamber"! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 26 06:56:06 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:11:32 2023. When the rattan seats wore down, they tended to prick your thighs and butt.The replacement covering like the covering on the original R/10s was adequate and eye worthy.  |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 26 07:34:24 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 17:43:38 2023. Plus a marvelous cacophony of moans, groans, grunts, snarls, hisses and throbbing.This seems like someone was peeking at my nocturnal activities. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Nov 26 07:55:01 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 15:37:26 2023. They were especially UGLY in their original dark olive green. How appropriate that they were IND cars hence sentenced to be almost entirely underground, out of the public eye. |
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| (1628062) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Nov 26 08:02:10 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 25 15:38:41 2023. But the BMT standards had rounded doors and windows, which to me gave them a softer, quaint appearance. That quaint apperance was beguiling, though, because as you have stated several times previously, the Standards were strong, woe to any other rolling stock that happened to have bumped into, or be bumped by them. In comparison, IND R1-9s were UGLY weaklings, based on their becoming accordions in that terrible accident in the 1930s and in 1970, when 986 as a lead car on the E was flattened when it bumped into the rear of R10 3062 as a rear car on the A. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 26 09:05:18 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:11:32 2023. Women hated them when they wore down. The big complaint was that they would tear up pantyhose |
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| (1628069) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:50:43 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by 3-9 on Sat Nov 25 22:15:51 2023. By the time I first saw the BMT standards, I had gotten used to looking for the route and destination signs above the front storm door. The standards didn't have them, only marker lights. I was also puzzled as to why for such a big car, they only had three sets of doors per side when IND and BMT cars had four (I associated the R-27/30s and R-32s with the BMT). I rode on them every Saturday for two years on the Lonesome Larry and to me it was cruel and unusual punishment. Sometimes we'd bail at Union Square on our way back to Manhattan along with just about everyone else on the train (people just POURED out at Union Square) and transfer to the Broadway line for a nice, brisk express sprint to 34th St. That sprint is still nice and brisk to this day. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 26 09:54:12 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 22, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 26 06:47:57 2023. Torture chamber, perhaps? |
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