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| $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR (1471832) | |
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| (1471832) | |
$787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by heypaul on Fri Apr 6 06:15:04 2018 Hoping to find ways to take pressure off subway |
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| (1471835) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 6 06:40:26 2018, in response to $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by heypaul on Fri Apr 6 06:15:04 2018. The department has tapped engineering firm AECOM to look at potential changes that would boost ridership on Long Island Rail Road and Metro North lines running within the five boroughs.Reducing fares within city limits, for example, would entice more residents to use commuter rails... No schitt, Sherlock. The commuter fares are specifically set high to discourage intracity travel. Bronx to Grand Central is $9.25 peak. Queens to Penn Station is $10.25 peak— because they don't want dirty city commuters on the suburbanites' trains. So if you decided that you now want to encourage city commuters to take LIRR/MNRR, the obvious step is to eliminate the penalty fares designed to discourage exactly that. |
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| (1471840) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Apr 6 08:04:10 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 6 06:40:26 2018. Sure they are going to let me insert my MetroCard in an LIRR/MNRR ticket machine to get a city ticket at subway fare?I use cityticket all the time to go from Atlantic Terminal to Jamacia on the weekend. I pay for the quicker, ON TIME trip of subway to downtown Brooklyn than LIRR. I doubt there are many that do that. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1471841) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Fri Apr 6 09:06:45 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Apr 6 08:04:10 2018. Perhaps they'd allow the Unlimited Metrocard to be accepted on Off-Peak trains (via turnstiles or "proof of payment" machines) between Atlantic Terminal & Jamaica as a test.Wouldn't have the capacity to do this on many peak trains and suburbanites would raise hell. |
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| (1471842) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 10:06:11 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by BrooklynTrain on Fri Apr 6 09:06:45 2018. Time to move away from MetroCard and to a tap card. |
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| (1471848) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 10:33:44 2018, in response to $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by heypaul on Fri Apr 6 06:15:04 2018. They sure missed a golden opportunity there. Instead of blowing money on that ESA station, they ought to have run the LIRR via the 63rd Street Tunnel's lower level onto the express tracks of the 6th Avenue or Broadway subways. For way less than the money they spent on ESA thus far, they could have run such trains as a loop around Manhattan by connecting them to the Atlantic Avenue branch via some new fancy connector too; and if they needed cars shorter than the Metropolitans for that service, they could have budgeted for that as well. Go figger.A bit too late to extend Metro-North to the Battery though. That is where the New York & Harlæm's terminal ought to have been, or at least be a through station with the CNJ/B&O at that location. |
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| (1471849) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 10:38:36 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 6 06:40:26 2018. If 12-car LIRR trains from Queens to NYP are already full, how are you going to squeeze subway pax on there, eh?This sounds like some kind of ploy to subway-ize the Atlantic Branch. We might even see R211s to Hempstead, lol. |
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| (1471850) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Apr 6 10:40:52 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 10:38:36 2018. Another proposal that will go nowhere. Suburban commuters (voters) will raise hell on earth with the MTA and their elected officials if the MTA even considers this. |
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| (1471852) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 11:03:59 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Dan on Fri Apr 6 10:40:52 2018. That's how some of the LIRR operated in the past though, isn't it? Ran onto the els and all. The MP41s were designed to run into the IRT from the Atlantic Branch too. |
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| (1471854) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 6 11:51:54 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 10:06:11 2018. That's the plan. |
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| (1471855) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Apr 6 11:58:36 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 11:03:59 2018. A long long long time ago. |
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| (1471856) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 12:04:54 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Dan on Fri Apr 6 11:58:36 2018. That mirrors, to me, interurban operations elsewhere, e.g. the North Shore Line in Chicago where you could ride from the elevated Loop all the way to Milwaukee. |
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| (1471859) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 6 12:58:53 2018, in response to $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by heypaul on Fri Apr 6 06:15:04 2018. Typical NYC proposal: relieve our problems by sloughing them off on someone else.Show me where the excess capacity on the LIRR is to absorb significant city ridership. Suburban fares are close to confiscatory; but if you avoid going to a City terminal (to Jamaica only for the best example) the difference between a one-way peak ticket to Jamaica or Penn is ~$4.25. Off peak is about $3. These would be the baselines on how low the city fare could go. |
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| (1471862) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 6 13:26:08 2018, in response to $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by heypaul on Fri Apr 6 06:15:04 2018. Aside from not needing a cushy contract--the basic answers are obvious to all--the money would be better spent putting next generation farecard readers on the platforms and honoring NYCT fares within the 5 boros. |
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| (1471863) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Fri Apr 6 13:29:41 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 6 12:58:53 2018. The highest fares between any two zones are between zones 1 and 3, $10.25 peak and $7.50 off-peak. Travel between any two suburban zones (except 12 to/from 14) is $3.25 and there is no peak/off-peak distinction.On single zone fares, travel in zone 1 is $8.75 peak/$6.25 off-peak and travel in zone 3 is $5.50 peak/$4.00 off-peak. Travel in all other zones is $3.25 at all times. All long trips are costly, those entering or beginning in the city a bit more, but short length trips in the suburbs are incredibly cheap. It's a fair contention that city LIRR prices should be higher because there are many more trips for portions of the LIRR that run through the city. That said, service at Long Island City, Hunterspoint, Woodside, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, Nostrand Avenue, and East New York isn't much less than service to most suburban stations. In any case, there is quite a bit of off-peak and reverse-peak LIRR capacity that could be used by city commuters. |
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| (1471873) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 6 13:56:24 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by displaced angeleno on Fri Apr 6 13:29:41 2018. In any case, there is quite a bit of off-peak and reverse-peak LIRR capacity that could be used by city commuters.That's the key. How do you attract riders ONLY to underused service. That is why Long Island to Long Island fares are cheaper. Any fare the railroad gets there is gravy because there is virtually no capacity issue, and the audience is negligible. |
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| (1471875) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Fri Apr 6 14:22:39 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 6 13:56:24 2018. The riders are complaining that they can't afford $2.75 and they're begging for taxpayers to pay half of that. If they won't accept Unlimited Metrocard at $2.75, the riders at East New York and Nostrand Ave won't be riding. |
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| (1471876) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 6 14:33:09 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by BrooklynTrain on Fri Apr 6 14:22:39 2018. Perhaps the riders aren’t all alike. |
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| (1471877) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 15:12:00 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 6 13:26:08 2018. There is no capacity to lower fares on the railroads in-city. |
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| (1471879) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 15:20:21 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Dan on Fri Apr 6 11:58:36 2018. In a galaxy far, far away... |
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| (1471885) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 6 15:44:11 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 6 10:33:44 2018. The problem with running LIRR or M/N into the subway system is that neither RR’s equipment will fit on the NYCTS. Even the long lasting “experiment” with 75 ft cars required a bit of tunnel slicing to just barely accommodate the longer cars. |
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| (1471886) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 6 15:46:21 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 15:12:00 2018. The LIRR C/Rs could be issued some sort of portable card reader to handle Metrocards. |
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| (1471889) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 6 16:09:23 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 15:12:00 2018. Agreed. To use the example I'm most familiar with, if you dramatically lowered fares from Wakefield (and intermediate points) to GCT, ridership would go through the roof and they would have to institute a lot more Mt Vernon West to GCT trains.And there aren't any time slots available for those trains, so you'd have to remove trains from the suburbs, where the alternative of using the subway doesn't exist. So it would be a win-lose situation, with the losers losing a lot more than the winners win. |
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| (1471898) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Jace on Fri Apr 6 17:23:18 2018, in response to $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by heypaul on Fri Apr 6 06:15:04 2018. Another petty publicity stunt by Di Blasio in his ongoing battle with Cuomo; here comes the city to help save hapless city commuters from the underperforming state (MTA).I wonder if this is at all related to the apparent sinking of the BQX project. The mayor should only blame himself on that one, it was doomed from the get go. He picked the wrong horse to back. |
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| (1471899) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 6 17:54:11 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 6 16:09:23 2018. You could move some suburban trains to Penn, which is the plan, freeing some slots into GCT. |
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| (1471920) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Apr 7 06:42:49 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 6 12:58:53 2018. This would have to be for off-peak use only. They could reduce the fare for CityTicket to bring it closer to (or even equal to) the subway fare. Wasn't that the original idea for it? Maybe expand it's hours too, to include weekday evenings after the P.M. rush. |
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| (1471926) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 10:23:27 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Apr 7 06:42:49 2018. There is no freeking point to this. You'd have to pa another fare to use the subway once you got to Manhattan.Commuter trains are already FULL, and customers from LONG ISLAND do not need to be crowded by people who already have access to the Subway. As it is they are free to use the LIRR, but only pay the full fair fare. Better Yet, let most trains SKIP Jamaica entirely. ROAR |
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| (1471927) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 10:25:42 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 10:23:27 2018. Better Yet, let most trains SKIP Jamaica entirely.You're out of your mind. Do you have any idea how many people change trains there? |
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| (1471929) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Apr 7 11:27:07 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 10:25:42 2018. Like the song says, I always switch trains in Jamaica Queens when I go to Valley Stream to see my aunt Eileen. |
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| (1471934) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 7 12:40:24 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 6 15:44:11 2018. That's what happens when they push for 85 feet. |
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| (1471935) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 7 12:55:31 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 10:23:27 2018. Better Yet, let most trains SKIP Jamaica entirelyWhy, nobody's getting off there to ride the subway to places other than Manhattan? Think again. They aren't all going to NY Penn. Never mind there being no bypass tracks so that trains can run through there at high speeds. |
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| (1471941) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 7 13:45:18 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 10:23:27 2018. making a distinction between LIRR,MN,NYCT, is like retuning topre-unification. It is ALL taxpayer supported (and anyone who buys anything taxable is a taxpayer) so who cares what color the uniforms/cars/stations are? Charging extra to use MN within the city is like charging extra to use an express. As to 'fair fares' thereis no such thing. None of the farebox recovery fortransit comes anywhere near sustaining operations, let alone capital improvements, new fleet etc. If the LIRR trains are 'already full' that means they need to pt out more service. |
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| (1471942) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 7 14:22:31 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 10:23:27 2018. So how does anyone on the Far Rockaway, West Hempstead, Hempstead branches travel to Penn Station when few of their trains operate in and out of Penn Station ? |
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| (1471943) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 7 14:34:05 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 6 16:09:23 2018. Depending on the length of the consist, may all that would be necessary is adding cars to existing trains. |
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| (1471945) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 7 14:44:03 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 7 14:34:05 2018. Cars that don't exist.There are few trains shorter than 10 cars headed in and out of Penn Station. |
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| (1471948) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 7 14:59:25 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 7 14:44:03 2018. So the reality is that in general transit use has increased over the 'bad old dsays' of the 19xxs and the various transit agencies have been slow to increase their fleets, speed up trains, etc. I far prefer this to notices of service cuts, discontinuances, last runs. I would, however echo Jarrett Walker (humatransit.org) who writeshttp://humantransit.org/2018/03/basics-slower-speed-is-a-service-cut.html because he is correct IMHO. |
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| (1471949) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 15:37:05 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 7 14:22:31 2018. Lion doesn't really know the NYC Metro area very well any more. |
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| (1471950) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 15:55:13 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 15:37:05 2018. Once they make the Atlantic line a subway shuttle everything will go to NYP/GCT.Many trains already skip JAM, so some will stop there otheres wil;l knot. ROAR |
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| (1471951) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sat Apr 7 15:55:40 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 15:12:00 2018. The problem is two-fold: both fares and service levels.If fares are lowered and service stays the same, then the trains will become overcrowded and unusable, particularly for those going to and from LI or the rest of the Hudson Valley. Fares not only need to be lowered, but service needs to be drastically increased across the entire system to support the additional ridership. If both are done then it would do a great deal to improve mobility across the region. As far as what the fares should be set at, there should be some sort of differentiation between local buses/subways and rail, so setting the fares at $2.75 within the city isn't the best idea. Further, rail fares aren't just too expensive in the city, it's a problem across the whole region as well...they're not just unaffordable in Queens and the Bronx, they are just as bad on Long Island, in Westchester, etc. The best thing to do would be to reduce fares to express bus-levels (i.e. the maximum fare between any two stations in NYC is equal to the cost of an express bus fare now) and extend those out to Long Island and the Hudson Valley as well, along these lines: http://library1.thelirrtoday.com/b/s!Alzm51r4FWdWh7Z4czlH4eV3jqeCJA Then drastically improve service so the railroads become integral parts of the region's transportation system and not just high-cost, high-waste systems that only effectively serve a very tiny portion of the region's population... |
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| (1471953) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 16:12:00 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 15:55:13 2018. Once they make the Atlantic line a subway shuttle everything will go to NYP/GCT.Duh! IF they do that, lots of people will have to get off their LIRR train at Jamaica. Otherwise there'd be no traffic for the Atlantic Ave shuttle. |
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| (1471960) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 7 16:54:15 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by lirr42 on Sat Apr 7 15:55:40 2018. Even lowering Zone3 - Zone1 fares to be $6.50 would cause peak direction over-crowding. |
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| (1471964) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 18:10:48 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by lirr42 on Sat Apr 7 15:55:40 2018. Further, rail fares aren't just too expensive in the city, it's a problem across the whole region as well...they're not just unaffordable in Queens and the Bronx, they are just as bad on Long Island, in Westchester, etc.But it actually costs that much, and much more, to provide the service. Last I heard, MNRR and LIRR fares were more heavily subsidized than NYCT fares. |
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| (1471984) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sat Apr 7 21:18:15 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 7 18:10:48 2018. Needless to say any service increases would require considerable efficiencies so adding more service doesn't mean losing even more money than they do now...Just one example: the LIRR alone spends over $250 million on conductors, assistant conductors, and collectors each year. If the LIRR were to move to a proof of payment system and eliminate conductors (like railroads did across Europe in the 1990's) it would more than offset any loss from reducing fares to express-bus levels (which I put at $61.205 million per year at the current ridership levels) and drastically reduce the marginal cost of adding new service. This is not uncharted territory...taking infrequent, expensive, commuter-focused and fragmented rail systems and unifying them into a cohesive, modern regional rail system that has frequent service, reasonable fares, and resembles rapid transit in the city was done in many cities elsewhere over the course of the last few decades. The MTA should be moving full steam ahead towards a modernized system like this...instead they're shilling out hundreds of thousands of dollars to study something Paris figured out 30 years ago! |
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| (1471991) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 8 07:00:40 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by lirr42 on Sat Apr 7 21:18:15 2018. There are already delays passing through the Woodlawn junction at rush hour, and the signaling system is pretty modern. How do you add more trains? |
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| (1471992) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 8 08:42:51 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 8 07:00:40 2018. Woodlawn Jct is easy - rebuild the outbound New Haven connection to be a flyover (between the local and express tracks), like its inbound counterpart.The more disruptive one is the one for the Hudson line. That one needs to be rebuilt so that westbound gets a flying junction. In a perfect world it would be between tracks 1 and 3 so that three out of four tracks can directly access the Hudson line without a conflict. |
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| (1471993) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 8 08:46:43 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 6 15:12:00 2018. There is, sortof.Go to 2x2 seating, the extra aisle space becomes standee room. Inbound trips, city riders will always be standing. Outbound trips, some suburban riders will have to wait a few stops for seats to open up. |
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| (1471996) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 8 09:55:46 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 8 08:46:43 2018. Inbound suburban riders will also be standing.Outbound, a "few stops" may be a good half hour. Not for $300 a month. |
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| (1471998) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 8 10:52:01 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by lirr42 on Sat Apr 7 21:18:15 2018. :eliminate conductors (like railroads did across Europe in the 1990's) "That will never happen, not in our lifetimes anyway.As for MN/LIRR conductors, aside from protecting revenue, who works the doors? Who makes sure that a 10 car train dosen't open up all doors on a 4 car platform? Who makes sure no one is getting dragged? Who helps in evacuations ? Etc, etc. All it would take is for a few lawsuits from passengers getting hurt or someone dying from a heart attack that might have been saved...by notifying a conductor to have an ambulance waiting for the train at the next stop to negate any $$$ savings. Then there's the unions. In a sue happy society that we live in, we know that will happen. |
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| (1471999) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 8 11:38:11 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 8 10:52:01 2018. I am not convinced that POP systems maintain their revenue stream.When Newark Subway converted from PCC to LRV operation, with reduced frequencies, and went to POP, farebox recovery went from 100% to 30%. Some LIRR and NJT off peak train are still over-staffed with collectors. |
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| (1472000) | |
Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sun Apr 8 11:56:05 2018, in response to Re: $787K Study Seeks to Find Ways to Encourage Subway Riders to Ride LIRR and MNRR, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 8 10:52:01 2018. Who does all of those things on European regional railroads? The LIRR and Metro-North are not the only systems in the world that have trains with doors, short platforms, or emergencies.The answer to your question is the responsibilities of conductors, assistant conductors, and collectors would either be assumed by the engineperson or replaced by technology. The reality is there are no legal, regulatory, or even contractual requirement that says the railroads have to have three people to do the job of one person... The engineperson would operate the doors. The onboard software could be modified so the train knows to only open 4 cars at certain stations, sensors could be added by doors so they only open when a platform is detected. Or, even better, if the railroads are not spending $250 million each on conductors every year, the one-time costs of extending all of those 4-car platforms to 10-cars would be a drop in the bucket. For all other emergencies, the emergency intercoms can be used to reach the person in the cab...it's not like conductors always intervene directly in every situation. Often they just call the police and wait, which can be done just as effectively by the engineperson. Proof-of-payment and eliminating conductors is very likely the single biggest thing the railroad's can do to improve service. Not only would it save roughly a quarter-billion dollars each year for each railroad, but it would drastically reduce the marginal cost of adding more service. On the LIRR, conductors, assistant conductors, and collectors make up 73% of the marginal cost of adding new service. The MTA's first and most important responsibility is to deliver effective and affordable service to their passengers, not prop up the unions. Without talking proof-of-payment, entertaining any other idea put forth in this thread or by this study is just a waste of time. |
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