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| Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning (1377833) | |
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| (1386342) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:54:48 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 21 09:47:16 2016. Only 3 per day, and as deadheads from Chambers to ENY. South of Chambers is regarded as Southern Division railroad. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 10:27:09 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:36:38 2016. I would beg to differ. They were more shiny, they had marker lights, the express/local lights, were painted, and had the two front rollsigns. |
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| (1386350) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 10:27:37 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:54:48 2016. BMT Southern Division |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1386358) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 11:34:15 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 10:27:09 2016. They were far dirtier then than now. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 11:54:19 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:54:48 2016. Pre Christie (apologies to those who remember), the TT was daily West End local to Chambers, south terminal Bay Pky. in the rush, STL during the day, and the TT to 36/4 midnights & all day Subway. |
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| (1386361) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 21 11:57:00 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:24:14 2016. IINM the R-32s had J signs on their original route curtains. When the R-16s served their final days on the J, they displayed orange JJ signs. |
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| (1386362) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 21 11:58:07 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:28:37 2016. Curly Joe and Moe. |
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| (1386363) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 11:58:58 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 11:34:15 2016. True but the car washers were usually broke in those old days.But IMO I'd rather have a dirty R32 lit up in the front with markers and paper end signs rather than a clean R32 with an unreadable digital sign. |
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| (1386364) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 21 11:59:34 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 11:54:19 2016. I remember seeing TT layups in ENY Yard I July of 1967. |
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| (1386365) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 21 12:00:13 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 11:58:58 2016. Not to mention the blue doors and green backlit side signs. |
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| (1386366) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 12:17:22 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 21 11:59:34 2016. Wasn't this recreated with a few |
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| (1386378) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Feb 21 14:00:32 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 11:34:15 2016. Their digital signs aren't. That was the worst thing to happen to the R32s (and R38s) during their GOH. |
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| (1386381) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 21 14:30:31 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 11:58:58 2016. Right on!!! The absolutely best front signage was the OEM giant lettering on the Slants. You immediately knew whether to stay by the edge or stand back. |
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| (1386387) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 14:49:27 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 21 14:30:31 2016. I fully agree! I wish that still existed. With the NTTs especially on the B Division, e.g the E and F, you can't tell which train it is until it right next to you. |
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| (1386395) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 21 15:09:11 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 20 21:28:47 2016. The R has to contend with the M, which has to contend with the F, which has to contend with the E.Honestly it's a miracle trains ever get anywhere... |
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| (1386397) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 15:33:26 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 21 15:09:11 2016. The M mixed with the R, then the F, then the J. Despite that, it works well.I think the R has it easier, yet is a horror show. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 16:10:13 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 14:49:27 2016. Even by looking orange and blue from a distance?When was the last time you saw an R46 on the E? |
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| (1386423) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 21 17:53:09 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 17:57:02 2016. I though I was more bolstering your logic than criticizing it. |
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| (1386424) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 17:55:51 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 16:10:13 2016. NO, I am discussing R160s. A minority of the F trains are R46s and then I can easily tell the difference. NTTs refer to newer cars. |
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| (1386432) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 21 18:27:31 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 21 15:09:11 2016. The number of merges among the several lines does cause schedule making to be a rather complicated process. The problem with paper railroading vs the real world is that while running times between locations are often in odd amounts such as 2 min and 15 sec, scheduling even computer generated can only be done to the nearest half minute. Thus the 2 min 15 sec runtime would have to be bumped up to 2 min 30 sec in order to avoid the train ending up late based on the written timetable. Also while 2 min clearance between trains is the ideal, trains are often secluded 1 1/2 min apart which is the absolute minimum clearance between trains. Back in the days of manual scheduling, when a train had to clear 2 services as is the case, for example a 2 having to clear both a 5 at 149 St and a 3 at 135 St, if the clearance were tight, we would merely increase the running time for one train so that it would clear both services. With computer generated timetables, such a procedure would be cumbersome so that the solution became adding junction points like 142 St Jct on the IRT or 11 St Cut on the BMT into the internal timetable so that trains could be held at those junction points without interfering with trains at stations where such complex mergers occur. The auction points are usually omitted from the timetable that’s sent to the road so that they become in effect “hidden holds” performing essentially the same function as the variable runtime changes did under the manual system. I also used to be SOP in scheduling that the timetable for the route with the most merges got generated first and the other lines built around it. On the IRT it used to be the 2, but over the years it has now become the 5 since it has to merge with the 2 in the Bx, the 4 in Manhattan and Bkln and with both the 2 and 3 at Nostrand Jct. On the BMT/IND, the R has to deal with the M in Qns and the N and Q in Manhattan but now both the F and the M have merges with 3 other lines so which one gets done first is anyones guess although I’m sure a current SOP is in place. Internally, a conflict where 2 trains arrive at the same merge point at the same time is referred to as a “bang” and we used to generate manual bang sheets with all the possible conflicting merge points and train intervals written on them, Although computer generated bang sheets are available, When I was working there, we still found the hand written ones more useful and a bit less confusing. The problem came in when in moving one train out of the way of a conflict, we would sometimes create a conflict with another line which had to be resolved yet somehow we managed to get it done. |
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| (1386446) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 19:22:58 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 17:55:51 2016. Not as bad as when we had R32's on the E and F. Try telling them apart. |
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| (1386448) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Feb 21 19:24:15 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 19:22:58 2016. That was awful.Because of how they are lit, Everything said E regardless of whether it was an E or F. |
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| (1386451) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 19:28:36 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by R30A on Sun Feb 21 19:24:15 2016. Would it break the bank to put a yellow LED sign in them instead of that flip dot thing ? They will be around 5 more years at least. |
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| (1386459) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 21 19:57:20 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:24:14 2016. R-32s and 38s got QJ signs when the destination signs were replaced with the new route signs and the original route signs were blanked out. |
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| (1386541) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 22 13:53:31 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 20 15:04:28 2016. I disagree. 9th Ave and the local stations north of 36th St have generally have lower ridership than the local stations south of 36th and those busier stations would still be served only by the (R). It doesn't help that Green-Wood Cemetery is literally a block away from two of those stations - 25th St and 9th Ave. A (W) train running to/from 9th Ave wouldn't be much of a supplement to the (R). You'd be better off running the (W) further down the West End Line to/from Bay Pkwy. At least then, you can get the busier stations on that line. |
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| (1386571) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 22 17:43:37 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Sun Feb 21 18:27:31 2016. Wow, it sounds like there's a lot of order to the chaos.I thought for same time arrival merges, either a coin flip or whichever was scheduled to get in there first (or whichever was the opposite route of the previous one through) would be first. |
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| (1386586) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 22 18:22:47 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 21 15:09:11 2016. They don't always. Nearly every day, I get at least one Service Alert e-mail from the MTA about a delay on Broadway or Queens Blvd. Often, I get Service Alerts for both lines in the same day. Yes, it can be that bad. |
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| (1386587) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 22 18:25:45 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Sun Feb 21 18:27:31 2016. The problem with paper railroading vs the real world is that while running times between locations are often in odd amounts such as 2 min and 15 sec, scheduling even computer generated can only be done to the nearest half minute.This is an example of NYCT's ineptness. One of scheduling's commandments is not thou shall work in 30 second increments. Indeed, if you look at IRT schedules from the early 1900's, you will see they calculated arrival times in 15 second increments. All this without computers - only pencils and green eye shades. (Actually they used graph paper, T-Squares and triangles.) One of the first tasks in analyzing an engineering problem is to determine what precision and accuracy is required. Let's look at the merge problem. It takes approximately 1 minute for a train to clear a switch. If trains are operating on 2 minute headways, there will be 1 minute of free time between trains. If each train is within 30 seconds of its scheduled arrival time, there will not be a merging conflict. For 90 second headways (40 tph), the envelope is 15 seconds. Neither can be accomplished, if schedules are resolved to 30 second accuracy. Other systems do operate at close to the nominal 40 tph. Schedules are resolved down to the second. There are clocks in each station to alert the crew whether they are ahead or behind schedule. They trust the crew to alter dwell time accordingly. NYCT has a lot to learn. |
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| (1386589) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 22 18:39:41 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 22 18:25:45 2016. They trust the crew to alter dwell time accordingly.Do the doors have blades that guillotine those who block them, to prevent them from increasing dwell time beyond the desired amount? |
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| (1386594) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 22 19:31:09 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by AlM on Mon Feb 22 18:39:41 2016. IMO passengers are much more apt to hold doors delaying a train today than they were in the old days because they were too heavy and they hurt! Because the doors slammed closed against the steel car body. The rubber did not stymie the blow! |
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| (1386595) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 22 19:38:04 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 22 19:31:09 2016. In 1970 I was in Paris for a few days. I lost a bit of focus while riding the Metro and suddenly realized this was my stop. I charged off the train as the doors were closing, and they closed on my outspread arms. The doors bounced back (not sure if it was because the conductor did something, or because of my actions), but my arms felt sore for quite a while after, given my age. I've never felt anything like that in the US, not even back then. |
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| (1386602) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Feb 22 20:28:58 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 22 18:25:45 2016. Thanks for the information. Are there any lines where 40 TPH with the current terminal set ups? CBTC might end up to be a waste of money. |
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| (1386613) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 22 22:02:07 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by AlM on Mon Feb 22 19:38:04 2016. In 1970 I was in Paris...The Sprague's were fairly common back then. Their door mechanism was fairly simple. There was an hydraulic piston that pushed the doors shut. Once the train was clear of the station, the piston was released. Only the latches held the doors shut. The piston would again be actuated, when the train approached the next station. The piston would be released when the train stopped. The released piston would allow the passengers to manually open the door. There was no mechanism to open the doors. The pistons pushed the door shut. |
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| (1386615) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 22 22:08:56 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by AlM on Mon Feb 22 18:39:41 2016. Do the doors have blades that guillotine those who block them, to prevent them from increasing dwell time beyond the desired amount?I checked dwell time at each station along the Lex express, when the SAS was being debated. Dwell time at each station was within 30 seconds, when there wasn't a long interval between trains. They were operating around 24 tph at that time. The presence of platform conductors at Grand Central tended to increase dwell times. |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:07:44 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 22 17:43:37 2016. That used to be the way it was done in the old days, but scheduling has been cleaned up since then. |
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| (1386671) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:16:57 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 22 18:25:45 2016. The problem with old IRT schedules vs modern schedules is that most of the IRT and also BMT for that matter had no signals so trains operated on visual observation of the trains ahead. Even after signaling was introduces especially on the BMT and later the IND, M/M were allowed to key by red automatic signals and close in on trains ahead without having to get permission from the RCC. Over the years due to a combination of employee incompetence and the inability for whatever reason of management and supervision to enFORCE operating rules, the duties of operating personnel were dumbed down which had an adverse effect on operations. I have done what were and maybe still are referred to as “replacement time” checks to determine the actual time it takes for a train to fully clear a station and the followers to enter and it is usually more than the one minute you cite. |
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| (1386711) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 23 19:42:21 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Tue Feb 23 15:16:57 2016. Creating schedules with running times resolved with greater precision and accuracy than 30 seconds is a necessary step to operating at 30-40 tph without merging conflicts. Whether the ability to key-by is necessary to maintain 30-40 tph isn't germane to whether such schedules are required.Was keying-by required to maintain 30+ tph? There are 3 important reasons why it wasn't used. First, the schedules were created so that every train saw nothing but green signal aspects. That's what the graph paper, T-squares and triangles (and Euclid's 5th postulate) guaranteed. Second, braking is one component of headway. Keying-by at slow speed increases braking time. Minimum headway is based on a much shorter time than keying-by provides. Third, the practice of keying-by to maintain schedules was banned by the Transit Commission in 1929. The only reason for keying-by was to pass a broken signal. I will be the first to admit that 30+ tph could not be maintained in the presence of broken signals. I have done what were and maybe still are referred to as “replacement time” checks to determine the actual time it takes for a train to fully clear a station and the followers to enter and it is usually more than the one minute you cite. What exactly is your definition of "replacement time" and how did you measure it? |
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| (1386715) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 23 20:11:33 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 23 19:42:21 2016. How often do you ride the subway in rush hour?I would estimate that the standard deviation of dwell time is at least 20 seconds, possibly more, and it's not due to C/Rs who are unfocused. The precision you advocate seems to be undermined by the riders. |
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| (1386722) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 23 22:22:04 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by AlM on Tue Feb 23 20:11:33 2016. I would estimate that the standard deviation of dwell time is at least 20 seconds, possibly more, and it's not due to C/Rs who are unfocusedThe actual dwell time is only part of the equation. You also need to know the headway from the last train. One would expect dwell time to increase with increased headway, due to increased passengers flow. Assume a 30 tph service level (120 second headway). The 30 second quantiztion level is 25% of the mean. That alone accounts for 7.5 seconds variation in loading time. I've also measured braking and acceleration rates when the lines were not crowded. The standard deviation in each ran around 33% of the mean. That's another +/- 20 seconds difference in headway. There's the adage: if you cannot be good be consistent. The idea being one can get better if there's a stationary target. NYCT operations are neither good nor consistent. The precision you advocate seems to be undermined by the riders. The riders did not decide to measure time with a sundial. NYCT is blaming its shortcomings on its victims. It's hardly a phenomenon unique to NYCT. |
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| (1386785) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 24 15:07:22 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 23 19:42:21 2016. The way we used to determine replacement time was from the time the rear of the first train cleared the leaving end of the station until the following train makes a complete stop at the appropriate car marker (usually 10). The dwell time will then determine what the scheduled leaving time for the following train within the parameters that the leaving time cannot be less than 1 1/2 min past the scheduled leaving time of the train ahead and ideally should be a full 2 min. |
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| (1386794) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 24 16:04:47 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Wed Feb 24 15:07:22 2016. I don't know exactly what this measures. It definitely does not measure the minimum headway.Here's how one should go about measuring the 3 components. N.B. these measurements are made on a clear track (green aspects showing). 1. braking time - the interval from when the front of a train enters the station and the doors open. 2. dwell time - the interval from when the doors open until the train starts moving to leave the station. 3. acceleration time - the interval from when the train starts leaving the station until first signal within the station changes from red to yellow. N.B. this signal usually has only red and yellow aspects. Let me explain this with the minimum number of signals (3) that control the train's passage through the station. There's a 3-aspect signal that is located just before the station entrance. Call this signal 1. There's a 2-aspect signal located somewhere on the station platform. This is signal 2. There's a 3-aspect signal located at the station exit. This is signal 3. Braking measurements are taken only when signal 2 shows a yellow aspect. This means signal 1 shows a green aspect. As the train enters the station signal 1 changes from green to red. As the train passes the insulated joint (IJ) associated with signal 2 it changes from yellow to red. When the entire train is within the station, the tripper for signal 1 will go up. Acceleration measurements are taken only when signal 3 shows a green aspect. As the train leaves the station, signal 3 changes from green to red. As the rear of the train passes the IJ associated with signal 2, its tripper goes up. The train completely leaves the station. Some time later the tripper on signal 3 goes up. Some time later signal 2 changes from red to yellow. This is the end of the acceleration time. The action of the signal 3's tripper going up, changes signal 1's aspect from red to yellow. The action of signal 2 changing from red to yellow, changes signal 1 from yellow to green. At this instant any following train will see a green aspect on entering the station and the cycle can repeat. Moreover, that following train will have seen nothing but green signals from leaving the previous station to its approach to signal 1. The nominal times for braking, acceleration and dwell times as defined above is roughly 30 seconds. |
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| (1386804) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 24 17:30:35 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 24 16:04:47 2016. Actually, when the entire train is in the station the tripper of signal 1 does not go up but remains down while the stop arm of the signal behind signal 1 goes up. Then when the rear of the train passes signal 2, the stop arm of signal 1 goes up. There are always at least 2 red signals behind every train, and the stop arm of the signal immediately behind the train stays down so that the train is protected by the stop arm of the signal behind the one immediately behind the train. |
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| (1386823) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 24 21:26:27 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Wed Feb 24 17:30:35 2016. That's what I meant to write. Thanks for pointing out the mistake. Serves me right for adding extraneous information.I was still correct regarding when signal 2 changes from red to yellow and signal 1 changes from yellow to green. Those are the important times. |
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| (1386884) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 25 17:35:25 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 24 21:26:27 2016. However, at the present time NYCTA rules prohibit trains from entering a station unless and until the entire train can berth at the platform impacting on the total time it takes the train to enter, take on/discharge passengers and depart. |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 25 17:51:50 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Thu Feb 25 17:35:25 2016. Why do they have that rule ? |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Feb 25 19:18:27 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Thu Feb 25 17:35:25 2016. at the present time NYCTA rules prohibit trains from entering a station unless and until the entire train can berth at the platformSignal 1, just before the station entrance, is green and Signal 2, in the station, is yellow. The next signal, Signal 3, is just beyond the station exit. Under what circumstances would an entering train not be able to berth at the platform? |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 25 19:24:07 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Feb 25 19:18:27 2016. Well it wouldn’t be able to enter the station until signal 2 is yellow so it would have to wait at signal 1. That takes time. |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Feb 25 19:33:13 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by randyo on Thu Feb 25 19:24:07 2016. Well it wouldn’t be able to enter the station until signal 2 is yellow so it would have to wait at signal 1. That takes time.The time interval from when signal 2 turns yellow to when signal 1 turns green is due to the signal system's reaction time. How much time do you believe this takes? (It's very easy to measure on an elevated station.) This is the only signal system related parameter in calculating minimum headway. |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by BusRider on Thu Feb 25 20:06:11 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Feb 25 19:18:27 2016. Some stations have no signals "in" the station and some have up to two look at 190th Street and 145th/125th Street on the Apple respectively. |
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Re: Broadway Line when SAS Service starts |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Feb 27 08:18:20 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Dec 22 03:17:57 2015. This actually was originally written as a response on another board: |
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