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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 12:02:20 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:53:36 2016. Right. There's something about a train! |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 12:07:46 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:53:36 2016. BTW, do you know why Muni does not include the E and F lines on its normal light-rail map? Also, on its website, their schedules are shunted off to a separate section called Historic Streetcars.It's almost like they market them as a tourist line, when, as you say, many residents use them for commuting. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 7 12:23:47 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 6 19:57:01 2016. That would be a societal artifice magnified by government, then. Buses and "light rail" did develop together. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 12:42:29 2016, in response to DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 3 18:33:18 2016. What corridors are there that might be more deserving of light rail? |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:50:20 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 3 20:38:49 2016. Streetcars sound like an ancient concept.Try telling that to the people of Portland, Seattle, Little Rock, Charlotte and Tacoma. And soon, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Oklahoma City and El Paso. And San Francisco, where Muni's F-Line carries over 24,000 riders a day. Then there's the San Diego Trolley. Its backers didn't want it to be called that, but the public did. It's the light rail system that started the surface rail renaissance in the US, and carries over 119,000 riders a weekday (latest 2015 figures) on just three lines--behind Boston (the leader), Los Angeles and San Francisco. So much for an "ancient concept." |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:52:00 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:50:20 2016. I might point out that Boston still calls its Green Line LRVs "Trolleys." |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:55:18 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:49:57 2016. No, it's not. The G has short trains, infrequent service and on its north end, doesn't even connect to the IND at Queens Plaza.Further inland, there is huge potential demand. Or don't you get stuck on the Van Wyck or the Grand Central Parkway, or the Belt Parkway? |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:58:14 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 12:07:46 2016. However, according to APTA, they lump ridership in with the Muni Metro light rail services. All of their rail service, when combined, makes Muni's ridership second in the United States. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:58:53 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 7 12:23:47 2016. Bullshit. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose incredibly-expensive streetcar line |
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Posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 13:04:18 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose incredibly-expensive streetcar line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:17:10 2016. LOL |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 13:19:58 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 11:53:36 2016. Indeed. even before the Embarcadero segment opened the F tripled the ridership of the 32 IIRC. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 13:22:22 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:49:57 2016. It's called economic development.HBLRT loads 41,000 per day. 20 years ago, it was zero. It was not taken from PATH. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 13:23:59 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:50:20 2016. To the likes of Robert Moses, Mayor LaGuardia, or the Board of Transportation, yes they are an ancient concept. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 13:25:53 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 7 12:23:47 2016. Totally wrong. Streetcars whether you call them light rail or not, date to the 1800s; buses the 1920s. The comparison in rider choice is stark--ridership onthe 32-ETB route in SF tripled when replaced by the F-Market PPCs and historics. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:27:24 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 13:22:22 2016. There weren't 19 subway stations near the HBLRT 20 years ago. There were and are 3, all in the under 2-mile stretch from Exchange Place to Hoboken. Apples. Oranges. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 13:45:41 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by milantram on Sun Feb 7 12:58:14 2016. Interesting. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 13:47:18 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 7 12:23:47 2016. Despite your political idiocy, I always thought you knew your rail history. I guess I was wrong. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 13:48:31 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:27:24 2016. The question is whether the total apples and oranges are greater than the single fruit before HBLR was built. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 13:50:52 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 12:42:29 2016. Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway, in lieu of Bx12. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:52:16 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 13:48:31 2016. HBLRT is a success. It allows many people taking many different kinds of trips to reduce their travel time.No one has made the same argument for a Brooklyn waterfront line. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 7 13:56:01 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:56:20 2016. Oh absolutely.Just take a look across the river at the new lightrail system... Its plenty busy all day till the last train. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 14:02:09 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 13:50:52 2016. East Bway - Pitt St - Avenue C - 14th/1st Ave. An increasingly heavily built up and gentrifying area with the nearest subway service a long way away, except at the end points. Sufficiently uncrowded streets that you could take away 2 lanes for dedicated tracks. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 7 14:02:16 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 05:58:13 2016. We are talking local NYC.In any event, you want to go out on a tangent? Just look how great some Democratic control for decades cities like Detroit. Yeah, that worked real good for them. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 7 14:03:03 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 12:01:31 2016. Yes, it's wonderful how the Republican Mayors cleaned it up |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 7 14:03:40 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:54:48 2016. A lot of the crap NYC went through by the 70's and 80's DID start in the 50's and 60's.Although one of the worst things for the NYC housing stock was Rent Control. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 7 14:06:16 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 6 22:19:29 2016. Anything offered to improve crosstown service between Brooklyn and Queens is a worty project.This "train on the street" will do just that with room to spare. If the desire is still there for the South Jamaica line.. then fight for it. After all,it was the MTAs fault the line was never completed. Right now..Brooklyn needs this service...along with a Utica avenue subway...And another Crosstown route using the Bay Ridge branch. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 7 14:09:28 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 6 22:19:29 2016. Anything offered to improve crosstown service between Brooklyn and Queens is a worty project.This "train on the street" will do just that with room to spare. If the desire is still there for the South Jamaica line.. then fight for it. After all,it was the MTAs fault the line was never completed. Right now..Brooklyn needs this service...along with a Utica avenue subway...And another Crosstown route using the Bay Ridge branch. Besides...who sez it has to be an MTA project? The DOT or Port Authority are just as capable to design/build and operate. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 7 14:09:47 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 6 22:19:29 2016. Anything offered to improve crosstown service between Brooklyn and Queens is a worty project.This "train on the street" will do just that with room to spare. If the desire is still there for the South Jamaica line.. then fight for it. After all,it was the MTAs fault the line was never completed. Right now..Brooklyn needs this service...along with a Utica avenue subway...And another Crosstown route using the Bay Ridge branch. Besides...who sez it has to be an MTA project? The DOT or Port Authority are just as capable to design/build and operate. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 14:10:50 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 7 14:03:03 2016. The murder trend reversed under Dinkins. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 14:12:21 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 14:02:09 2016. Not a bad idea. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 14:15:45 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 12:42:29 2016. One missed opportunity was when the West Side Hwy was rebuilt into the current boulevard. A light-rail could've been built alongside it, starting from from Columbus Circle west to 12th, then down along the river to Battery Park City. It could have been the NYC equivalent of San Francisco's F Embarcadero line. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 14:19:01 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:52:16 2016. when the IND QB line was planned it was not very developed. The history of transit in the US is both serving established markets AND creating new ones--kinda like providing utilities and streets. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 14:20:51 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 7 14:03:03 2016. the muder trend shift occurred in many cities w/mayors of both parties, try again. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 7 14:24:08 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 6 22:19:29 2016. DOT THE RIGHT WAY,EXTEND THE E TO GREEN ACRES.NO PARKING IN ROSEDALE. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 14:24:27 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 7 14:06:16 2016. Yes on all counts. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 7 14:32:50 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 14:15:45 2016. SF had an active corps of Railfans who managed to persuade the City that the historic trolleys were a good idea. Part of the effort began when the Cable Car system had to be shut down for complete reconstruction. The Cable Cars are a strong tourist magnet and the Mayor (now Sen. Feinstein) was worried about diminished revenues. M. H.Klebolt and others presented her with anHitoric Trolley Festival plan which she bought into. It was a success; thus "proof of concept" for the full F-Market & Wharves of today and the E-Embarcadero. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 15:32:33 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:27:24 2016. HBLRT is the closest analogy we have in the area.LRT works as economic development. The B32 does not. The G train is too far away and has to few stops to call this LRT redundant. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 15:56:12 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 15:32:33 2016. HBLRT is the closest analogy we have in the area.True, but it is an incredibly flawed analogy because it has 3 nearby subway stations and the Brooklyn waterfront has 19 nearby subway stations. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 15:58:32 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 15:56:12 2016. "Nearby" is a stretch. At least for all 19. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 16:09:49 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 7 15:58:32 2016. At least 19 subway stations are at most half a mile walk, often less, to the last avenue/street before the water.I'm not counting Carroll St, Bergen St, Marcy Ave, or anything on the Astoria Line. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 16:11:04 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 15:56:12 2016. Other than the G train, which is mostly too far away, the rest simply take you to Manhattan, which should not count. Tallying up rider counts at Marcy Ave, Hewes Street are not particularly useful. There isn't even an official G/J transfer. The G one at Court Square is rather clumsy. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 16:15:48 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 16:09:49 2016. Doesn't make it redundant. Subway stops are much farther apart than LRT stops. A half mile in NYC often mean another neighborhood entirely.Ronan used the excuse the Myrtle Av el was redundant with the GG. But nobody who used the Myrtle Ave el moved to the GG. The market vanished, the neighborhood's death accelerated, the replacement bus did nothing. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 16:22:50 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 16:11:04 2016. Not a single person here can give an example of a common trip between two waterfront locations. That's for a good reason.If your goal is just "get from Brooklyn to Queens," the most effective way is to take the closest subway to the G, then take the G. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 16:48:43 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 16:22:50 2016. Because the development occurs AFTER the rail line is built.There' your good reason. Obviously the G train is quite irrelevant. How about form Queens to Queens and Brooklyn to Brooklyn ? |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 16:56:12 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 16:48:43 2016. Brooklyn to Brooklyn - the R is quite close to much of the southern waterfront, the G to the northern waterfront, and the 2, 3, 4, 5, A, F, and R in downtown.Queens to Queens is the only place where there aren't useful alternatives by subway. It's quite a walk to the Astoria Line. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 7 16:57:14 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:27:24 2016. Yet the light rail was built and it is well used...just like any new venture will be if built here. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 7 17:06:47 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 14:10:50 2016. And Giuliani would have had the worst year ever for murders except 2753 murders on 9/11/01 don't count for some reason |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 17:18:32 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 16:56:12 2016. You keep saying the G, and we have keep saying the G is too far inland to make any difference in development patterns nearer the shore. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 17:25:58 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 17:18:32 2016. You asked how to get from the Brooklyn waterfront to the Brooklyn waterfront, and I answered.The original article said one reason for this was to improve transportation between Brooklyn and Queens, and I addressed that. |
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Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 7 17:37:27 2016, in response to Re: DeBlasio to propose light rail line, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 17:25:58 2016. Brooklyn Waterfront included areas north of downtown Brooklyn's subway complex. Nobody said riders must cross the county line for this to be useful. |
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