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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 5 17:48:07 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 5 16:29:04 2016. If the N returns to a full B'way express (with the W's return) the merges reduce:D at 36st. Q at Gold St. R+W at 34st. In reverse it would be: R at 60st tunnel Q at 34st D at Gold st 3 merges is the same as what the M and R have to deal with... |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 5 19:05:23 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 5 17:48:07 2016. But the northbound N has to merge back with the R and W to get to Astoria. Astoria needs more service than just the W and 96th/2nd needs less than N + Q. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 5 23:09:16 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 5 19:05:23 2016. Yup I included that already. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 6 00:03:31 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 5 16:29:04 2016. I know Sea Beach Fred would have a stroke if that were to happen.:) |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:00:59 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016. When second avenue subway is done; Make service smooth and efficiently. Switched Terminal Between Astoria and 71st Street QueensWeekdays: (N) 96th Street/2nd Avenue - Coney Island via Broadway Exp/4th Av- Sea Beach. (Q) 96th Street/2nd Avenue - Coney Island via Broadway Exp/ Brighton Local. (R) Astoria - 95th Street via Broadway Local; all times(New Terminal) (W) Whitehall Street - 71st Street via Broadway local.(New Terminal) Late nights and weekends in Manhattan: (N) Broadway Express/4th Av Exp-Sea Beach all the way to Brooklyn via Bridge. Longest Line in Brooklyn; All times (Q) Broadway Local via Bridge (R) Broadway Local to 95th Street- Bay Ridge 24/7: Eliminating Shuttle R train in Brooklyn. All times (W) No Service Between Manhattan and Queens Late nights in Brooklyn (D/R) 4th Av Local 24/7 (N) 4th Av. Exp and Sea Beach Leave one 4th Av Express Service in Brooklyn. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:01:24 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016. When second avenue subway is done; Make service smooth and efficiently. Switched Terminal Between Astoria and 71st Street QueensWeekdays: (N) 96th Street/2nd Avenue - Coney Island via Broadway Exp/4th Av- Sea Beach. (Q) 96th Street/2nd Avenue - Coney Island via Broadway Exp/ Brighton Local. (R) Astoria - 95th Street via Broadway Local; all times(New Terminal) (W) Whitehall Street - 71st Street via Broadway local.(New Terminal) Late nights and weekends in Manhattan: (N) Broadway Express/4th Av Exp-Sea Beach all the way to Brooklyn via Bridge. Longest Line in Brooklyn; All times (Q) Broadway Local via Bridge (R) Broadway Local to 95th Street- Bay Ridge 24/7: Eliminating Shuttle R train in Brooklyn. All times (W) No Service Between Manhattan and Queens Late nights in Brooklyn (D/R) 4th Av Local 24/7 (N) 4th Av. Exp and Sea Beach Leave one 4th Av Express Service in Brooklyn. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:07:28 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Feb 4 19:45:08 2016. Yes In Queens |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:07:39 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Feb 4 19:45:08 2016. Yes In Queens |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:17:52 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:01:24 2016. R train shuttle should be eliminated in Brooklyn;let in run all of times from/to borough; Because we staying away in trouble;Instead you will getting off for another waiting time. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 02:51:24 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 5 23:09:16 2016. Oh yes you did. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 6 03:57:57 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:00:59 2016. i like the "broadway local via bridge" routing. very bmt-prime era canoodling with available infrastructure options. |
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| (1384476) | |
Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by caine515 on Sat Feb 6 07:49:41 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:00:59 2016. That can't be done. The "R" originally was astoria-95 but the table moved it for a terminal with a yard close by. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 09:20:58 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:00:59 2016. Do you read responses?First paragraph: it's 71st AVENUE. The R will not run between Astoria and 95 because there are no maintenance facilities at either end. Therefore there would be increased operating costs for more t/o's & time involved to get the equipment to one. Especially a real challenge to go from Astoria to Jamaica Yard. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 09:21:39 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Sat Feb 6 02:17:52 2016. Thanks Chipper 10. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 09:27:35 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 09:20:58 2016. So how do morning rush hour trains from Astoria get added into the system? Are they stored overnight on the express tracks? Or do they make very early trips from one of the yards in Brooklyn to Astoria, arriving there when they are needed for the trip into Manhattan? |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 10:17:40 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 6 03:57:57 2016. I wouldn't mind it so much if it was the Brighton service. But Broadway Local and then skipping DeKalb while the Broadway Express stops there. . .eh. . . |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Feb 6 10:26:40 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by ntrainride on Sat Feb 6 03:57:57 2016. The N already does this full time. It contributes to fouling up Broadway BMT service regularly. If it's limited to weekends and overnight hours, like the 2004-10 and 1987-88 weekend N, then maybe it could work. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 10:27:00 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 09:20:58 2016. Correct me if I'm wrong but for yard access it seems the only semi-feasible ways for the 95th St service to ever avoid going to Queens Blvd are for it to go to Nassau St or to 6th Ave. As long as the 95th St service goes to Broadway (however it gets there), it must also go to Queens Blvd (however it gets there).But if they ever wanted to have some real fun, they could do something like this: 6th Ave Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Local - 95th St 6th Ave Express - Bridge - Brighton Broadway Local - Tunnel - Brighton Broadway Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Express - West End Broadway Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Express - Sea Beach Both 4th and Brighton get both 6th and Broadway access, and there is no switching whatsoever north of DeKalb (and relatively little switching south of it). Doubt it would ever happen of course. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Feb 6 11:16:13 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 10:27:00 2016. This sounds very similar to a plan Wallyhorse has posted multiple times - on here, on NYCTF and on Second Ave Sagas (and probably elsewhere). Though I must say I do like the idea of no switching north of DeKalb, because Gold St Junction is a major choke point for the current B, D, N and Q services. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 6 11:33:19 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 10:27:00 2016. From a previous message:But if they ever wanted to have some real fun, they could do something like this: 6th Ave Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Local - 95th St 6th Ave Express - Bridge - Brighton Broadway Local - Tunnel - Brighton Broadway Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Express - West End Broadway Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Express - Sea Beach ------------- The last three of proposed routes in your list were actual real-life routings in the past. The basic idea with the Sixth Avenue line was that for financial and prestige reasons - Sixth Avenue Express trains were routed to/from Coney Island - with the IND take-over. The one subway line that travels down the "center" of Manhattan with direct access to Washington Heights, the Bronx, Queens & Brooklyn! I'm pretty sure there used to be a "Broadway Local - Tunnel - Brighton" that went to Astoria. The interesting part is the talk of the current R-train being "all local every where" which is recreated in this scheme. I suppose that you'd send this route to Astoria, but I also note that connecting Astoria to your either of your "Broadway Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Express" routes to both Sea Beach & West End - has also been done in the past. In addition - it appears that your "6th Ave Express - Bridge - Brighton" would be a part time route - again gaining the wrath of those who pitched and moaned about the D-train moving off the Brighton line and not serving the DeKalb Avenue station. Using today's (recent past routes) it seems that your "6th Ave Express - Bridge - 4th Ave Local - 95th St" and your "Broadway Local - Tunnel - Brighton" would be the only routes that would consistently stop at the DeKalb Avenue station. Just some thoughts. Mike |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 13:20:42 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 6 11:33:19 2016. You're too kind because my plan would never fly for the simple reason that no way would Brighton accept the loss of a bridge-to-Broadway service. Tunnel to Broadway means no Broadway, basically.Something has to go through the tunnel and the 95th St service is best suited for it. Unless it goes to Nassau and ENY, it must go to Forest Hills for yard access. It's doomed! There are simply too many people to make happy. Brighton has to have both 6th and Broadway access via bridge, 4th Ave needs the same (West End / Sea Beach), and the 95th St service does just fine staying on its own track and leaving everyone else alone. It's just unfortunate for Bay Ridge riders. Their only hope is to warrant a second service to 95th St that can become express starting at 59th and then go wherever. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 14:01:25 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 09:27:35 2016. The middle track.There is a difference in laying up a train with no defects and a train that has to go to a maintenance facility, which I was referring to. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 6 14:37:10 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by caine515 on Sat Feb 6 07:49:41 2016. DO NOT SAY IT CANNOT BE DONE.It most assuredly CAN be done! LION would extend the Astoria end (single track on quite concrete risers to a new yard to be built on the Co Ed property. THIS CAN BE DONE. The MTA can help ConEd eliminate polution on the site, ConEd gets to keep the ground level, MTA builds its yards on an upper level, and then above the yards goes parking commercial and the residential space as tall as you please. Good Rents will pay for the whole thing. Other R trains will terminate at Ninth Avenue/36th Street. The morning put-ins do NOT have to start at 95th Street, the can start att 36th Street. The Layups can say the last stop is 36th Street, but the train will continue to 9th Avenue where the pre-layup fumigation actually occurs, and the 'dolts that cannot figgr out how they got there will go upstairs to ride on a (D) train. IT CAN BE DONE. BMT LINES: Trains from 96th Street (Yes the (Q) AND the (N) need to go there in order to compete with the LEX) and all 63td Street Trains run EXPRESS on Broadway and over the bridge. ALL 60th Street Trains run LOCAL on Broadway and through the tunnel. PROBLEM IS no matter what train serves Astoria, it has to have a yard somewhere. ASTORIA is on the BROADWAY LOCAL, and the local tracks go to 95th Street. That is that. That is how it is Built. That is how it should be run. YOU GOT PROBLEM WITH IDEA OF LION?.... NOBODY argues with a LION and lives to tell about it. ROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 6 14:42:15 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 09:20:58 2016. YOU have built yourself into a box.IT CAN BE DONE. There is no reason why it cannot be done. EWE MUST THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX thay you have built. Yards can be built, and even if they are not the 9th Avenue / 36th Street yards can handle the (R) train terminal. The (C) division activities that are handled there can be moved out on to one of the piers. The tracks DO go there, you know. ROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 15:12:43 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 6 14:42:15 2016. I was referring to what we have today. CIYD for the N and JYD for the R. If the R ran between Astoria and 95, it would not have a maintenance facility at one end of the line. This is why the north terminals of the N and R were changed.If a new maintenance facility were built at either Astoria or 95, or extending one end of the line to a new maintenance facility, we have a new dynamic. Of course, all we need is money. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 16:38:07 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 14:01:25 2016. I understand. My question was a non sequitur. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 16:39:12 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 6 14:37:10 2016. Lots of things can be done for enough money.I live in a lion-proof apartment. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 20:16:22 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 6 14:37:10 2016. Trains that serve Astoria right now DO have a yard somewhere and it’s called Coney Island Yd which is why the N was routed there. Moving the R back to Astoria would mean that CIY would then become the closest yd for servicing the R fleet and getting trains to/from CIY requires turning trains laying up at 95 St on the mainline at 36 St, not operationally feasible. At the present time what can be done with the service is contingent on the facilities that exist NOW, not at some time in the future assuming that funding can even be found to build the facilities you are talking about. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 20:20:13 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 6 09:27:35 2016. They are stored at City Hall Yd and although they run light from Astoria to CHL at night, in the AMs they operate N/B in service from Canal to Astoria. Unlike the situation that exists an the S/E of the R Line which requires trains for CIY to turn on the mainline at 36 St, layups from Astoria can proceed directly south into CHL Yd without having to stop and change ends on ther mainline. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 20:27:14 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 10:27:00 2016. Your plan would require either the 4 Av lcl to cross over from the Manny bridge (6 Av Exp) tks somewhere on 6 Av to access 53 St and Xover to the lcl tk at Qns Plz unless you plan on having the service operate via 63 St which means that bway service to Qns Plz would be lost. There would certainly be no capacity too run Rs via the Qns Blvd exp tks. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:28:14 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 20:16:22 2016. You are living in a box. Do you *like* your box?LIONS work outside of the box. When Second Avenue opens the complexion of Broadway changes. Express trains will operate via 63rd street and go over the bridge. Local trains will operate via 60th street and go through the tunnel. To do otherwise would require onetrain to pass in front of the other, perhaps twice even. LION objects to these unnecessary delays. Astoria, like it or knot can only access the 60th street tunnel, ergo it is LOCAL. It go through tunnel. Like it or knot, it is the 4th Avenue Local. It goes to 95th street. OK, let the (R) run 71 to 95, yes that is done now and yes, it works, but what then of Astoria. Bring back the (W)? You still have the problem of no north yard, and you still have no South Terminal. You can turn trains at Canal, you can turn trains at Whitehall, but there still is no terminal there. Ninth Avenue and 36th Street make the PERFECT terminal for the (W) even if you throw in some short terns at Whitehall, and do some layups at City Hall. Either way, the LEAST you will have to do is to CAPTURE the 36th Street yards for passenger services. C Division trains can relocate to the piers. They have a good track going there. A little emenient domain, and the pier is all yours. ROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:33:14 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 6 15:12:43 2016. Ach! Today is over! 63rd Street is upon us.Both the (Q) and the (N) knead to go to Second Avenue if it is to compete with the Lexington. IT NEEDS SERVICE. LOTS OF IT. 10 minute intervals will not cut it the Yeast Side. EXPRESS Tracks serve 63rd Street. (period) LOCAL Tracks serve 60th Street. (period) Keep your fingers off of the levers or you will slow this LION down! NO SLOW LIONS ON BROADWAY! ROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:45:43 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 20:20:13 2016. Layups at 36th can proceed into 9th Lower (or upper for that matter) for fumigation and the run express into CYI or layup at 36thROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:46:49 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 6 20:27:14 2016. 60th Street = local via tunnel63rd Street = Express via bridge. ROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:13:23 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:28:14 2016. Express trains will operate via 63rd street and go over the bridge.Local trains will operate via 60th street and go through the tunnel. You are unbalanced. The demand for Broadway from Brooklyn is overwhelmingly for Bridge trains. The demand for Broadway from the "north" is overwhelmingly (roughly 75%) for the 60th street tunnel. It's no point having a theoretical masterpiece with no merges if you have Astoria being vastly underserved. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:14:40 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 07:33:14 2016. Lion better keep clear of Astoria or he will meet a very sad end. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:15:30 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Dec 25 16:33:41 2015. Broadway Part Time Express N 96th Street via Express and Bridge to Coney IslandBroadway Full Time Express Q 96th Street via Express and Bridge to Coney Island Broadway Short–Line R Queens Boulevard via Local to Whitehall Broadway Full Time Local W LaGuardia Airport via Local and Tunnel to Bay Ridge Late Nights W alternates to Coney Island via Sea Beach and 95th This would involve a yard at Con Edison |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:31:26 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:15:30 2016. And underserves Astoria. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:42:11 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 6 10:27:00 2016. C Bedford Park Boulevard or 145th Street to Ozone ParkB 168th Street to Bay Ridge – 95th Street via Sixth Avenue Express, Manhattan Bridge and Fourth Avenue Local Late Nights Atlantic Avenue to Bay Ridge – 95th Street Shuttle D Norwood – 205th Street to Coney Island via Sixth Avenue Express, the Manhattan Bridge and Brighton Local N 96th Street to Coney Island via Broadway Express, the Manhattan Bridge, Fourth Avenue Express, and the Sea Beach Line Q 96th Street to Coney Island via Broadway Express, the Manhattan Bridge, Fourth Avenue Express, and West End Line W Astoria – Ditmars Boulevard to Brighton Beach via Broadway Local, the Montague Tunnel, and Broadway Express Astoria–Ditmars Boulevard to Coney Island via Broadway Local and Sea Beach. Things in Bold are part time routes Late Night Services are underlined I am not necessarily advocating this, but pointing out how difficult it will be to reduce switching and delays. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:42:37 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:31:26 2016. I forgot to mention that the W would be 12 TPH. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:48:36 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:42:37 2016. OK, fine. You're solving the problem by throwing a lot of money at it. 96th/2nd and Bay Ridge just don't need those levels of service (20 tph and 12 tph respectively).And the Astoria line gets 13 tph at the moment. It will need even more with time. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 7 11:54:39 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:42:11 2016. Part time routes are a pain.When I lived in Astoria, I would often be at the Lexington Avenue N / R station around midnight. There were always people asking "Do you know if the last R has gone?" There was no way to know. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:55:48 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced, posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 7 11:54:39 2016. I know, that is why I am pointing out that that plan wouldn't work.It is a trade off. Reduced switching or part time routes. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 7 11:57:07 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 11:48:36 2016. you could short term some Ws at Whitehall. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 12:03:05 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? Massive Changes Needed if Switching is to be reduced, posted by merrick1 on Sun Feb 7 11:54:39 2016. Part time routes are a pain only if their ending leaves you high and dry.Say you're at 42nd/6th. If you want to get to the Brighton Line in the late evening, you don't know whether you can get a B or if you need to change to a Q at 34th. That's annoying. But if you want to get to CPW, and a D comes first, take it to 59th and then take the next local, whether it's a B, C, or A. No problem. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Feb 7 12:32:03 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:13:23 2016. Some time ago a few months back on this forum I presented a lengthy proposal to revamp the train routes once the Second Avenue subway opened. In that proposal I suggested the following:a) The R-train remain as is, usually 6am to midnight, with its usual Brooklyn shuttle segment. b) The W-train be re-created to service Astoria, traveling local between Whitehall Street and Astoria (24/7/365). I'd have rush-hour additional traveling between Astoria and the Canal Street, and rush hours between Astoria and the 9th Avenue station in Brooklyn. These two additional pathways rush hours were to give the Astoria segment the needed number of trains per hour that is obtained from the current N & Q train service. c) The Q-train would run as planned from 96th Street/Second Avenue to/from Coney Island as the Manhattan-Broadway express and the Brighton local. d) The N-train would run from 96th Street/Second Avenue to/from Coney Island as the Manhattan-Broadway and the Brooklyn 4th Avenue express along the Sea Beach line. The N-train would run 6am to midnight, where during the midnight hours the W-train would be extended to Coney Island via the Sea Beach line as the all local stop service for Queens, Manhattan and Fourth Avenue. ---------- I had proposed this arrangement to reduce the switching of trains on the Broadway line, to speed up service on the respective branchs - where the 60th Street Tunnel handles the local trains, and the 63rd Street Tunnel handles the express trains. In addition the idea was to provide the Second Avenue segment with the frequency of service that rivals the Lexington Avenue line which was one of the purposes of building the Second Avenue subway. I believed that the Q-train alone could not provide that frequency of service, and there would not make the Second Avenue segment competitive with the Lexington Avenue line - basically wasting billions of dollars. Having both the Q and N train routes service Second Avenue would accomplish several goals. There were several rounds of back and forth discussion of the idea, with many aspects discussed and detailed. Some folks brought out time schedules, while others talked about train yard access or how riders would transfer, etc. It was a lively discussion. In addition some folks created variations on the idea or expressed the ideas in their own ways. (Yeah!) In any case, the idea that Broadway Lion is promoting by definition (and from birth) includes the idea that the train service along the Astoria segment would get its current frequent needed rush hour levels of service. Mike |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 13:19:15 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:13:23 2016. Unbalanced?The scales just got thrown out the window with the opening of Second Avenue. There needs to be NO BALANCE between the express and the locals as they never share an inch of rail. With the (Q) and the (N) going to 96th Street/Second Avenue... 100% of the express traffic will go uptown. There is no change in Brooklyn or to 71st Street if you are going to tun the (R) that way. The Odd man out is ASTORIA. Astoria needs more service if it is going to loose two trains and get one in return. There will have to be a HUGE number of consists running on the (W), some can short turn at Whitehall, but Whitehall cannot possibly turn (W)s fast enough to choke the trains at Astoria without also choking the (R) trains to Brooklyn. If all (W) trains would turn at Whitehall... you would need three, perhaps four crews on the platform at one time. One arfiving, one walking north, one using the potty or falling back just incase of delays and one ready to depart instantly. Less hectic but also demanding more equipment would be to turn at 36th Street / 9th Avenue etc. etc. And in any event their home would have to be at Ninth Avenue. ROAR |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:21:32 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Michael549 on Sun Feb 7 12:32:03 2016. OK, fine. Make Broadway local service sufficient to cover Astoria and Forest Hills, with trains turning in Manhattan so that 4th Ave local service isn't overprovided.1. That's too much Manhattan Broadway local service. Money not spent well. 2. Too much service to 96th. More money not spent well. A lot of money spent just to avoid the really annoying frequent 2 minute delays at 34th St in the northbound direction. What could make the 2nd line more popular is the extension to 125th. That's a bunch of years in the future. What would also help is a pedestrian passageway underneath Lex from 63rd to 60th. That's not in anyone's plans. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 13:23:25 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 13:19:15 2016. There will have to be a HUGE number of consists running on the (W)OK, fine. Money not well spent. Too many local trains on Broadway in Manhattan, too many trains in the Montague, too many trains to 96th. |
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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 7 13:24:58 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 7 10:14:40 2016. PLAN of LION is to provide SATURATION SERVICE to ASTORIA.That is why him wants to put the (R) there. Saturate Astoria with as many trains as it can handle, and then turn some of them at Whitehall and/or 9th Avenue as Fort Ham needs not all of that service. LION would DISCONTINUE Bway Service to the Queensboro Line. It is a waste of time to go up there. Let the (M) handle it all. All you would knead is more (M)s If more than Metropolitan / Jamaica can handle then add (EE) service between 71st Street and the H&M terminal. : ) ROAR |
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