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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:31:25 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 18 17:19:22 2015. LIRR doesn't want any since there are too many clearance issues. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:34:34 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 17 19:05:35 2015. I was talking about LIRR. MN is off their rocker with the 3rd rail extension BS for Penn service. If at some point, the capacity is available, they should either buy used NJT/Amtrak gear or tag onto an NJT/MARC/Amtrak order and do loco-hauled push-pull, which would eliminate the need for additional 3rd rail. Either that, or they could pool with/ lease equipment from NJT, and do run-throughs, which might make things a tiny bit less chaotic at Penn and squeak a tiny bit more capacity out of an already way beyond capacity station. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:36:05 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 17 19:01:31 2015. The ALP45DP is a 100mph diesel and a 125mph electric. Besides, a Sprinter-based DM would be a different locomotive, same idea. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:38:04 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by pragmatist on Tue Feb 17 21:01:29 2015. If you make the experience good enough, which the Acela successfully does, then I think they could grab marketshare from cars, as well as induce demand for people who otherwise might try to avoid traveling between the two cities. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:38:47 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 18 01:09:07 2015. That's just the problem. We have a mobility crisis, and the climate crisis, and we are like frogs in the boiling pot. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:40:48 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 18 18:22:33 2015. Other than the fact that it is right. The are electric locomotives all over the world, and they are, for the most part, called locomotives. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:40:53 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Feb 18 17:19:22 2015. Correct. Which apparently won't clear ESA or Brooklyn, so that idea was kind of a dud. The necessary extensions to LIRR's electrification will have to be third rail. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:43:08 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by R30A on Tue Feb 17 21:13:38 2015. Electrification will never go everywhere. There will always have to be secondary lines that don't have it and use whatever fuel will be used in the future. Likely biodiesel in the foreseeable future. However, the main lines and busy commuter operations need to be electrified. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:43:57 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:36:05 2015. Amtrak has limited it to 100MPH on the NEC, regardless of what Siemens says it can do. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Feb 18 18:44:42 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:40:48 2015. I'll try and bring peace to the valley by splitting the difference. The classic definition of a locomotive would be "self propelled", but modern usage includes electricity as an energy source for propulsion. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:45:59 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:34:34 2015. I suppose MN does not want a unique fleet captive to one (small) service. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:47:28 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:40:53 2015. British Railways (whatever the various companies are called now) has a 3rd rail MU system all over southern England. I don't see what the big deal is. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Feb 18 18:55:53 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:38:04 2015. The Albany station being in Rennsalaer hurts a bit. It is a pretty nice station, but a bit of a pain to get to the other side, especially up towards the airport. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:59:38 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by j trainloco on Tue Feb 17 21:38:13 2015. That's just the thing. Future electrification will have to be, at least partly, public works projects. There are two things are driving the need for electrification, the mobility crisis, and the climate crisis. We need to get trucks off the road, and we need to cut the use of diesel fuel. Even biodiesel can't replace the current use of diesel fuel one to one, and the biggest way to cut diesel consumption quickly is by electrifying railroads, increasing the use of closed intermodal, and creating an open intermodal service, with both forms sharing electrified rail superhighways with passenger and regular freight traffic.Our highways are heavily subsidized, and that needs to end. The Eisenhower highway system needs to go 100% toll, and force trucks to pay their fair share, which won't be cheap, and on top of the current driver shortage, would likely just about end long-haul trucking, which is an absurd concept that shouldn't exist, and need not exist in a world with electrified 90mph open intermodal. We also can't build our way out of our highway congestion problems, we need rail. This article has it right. Now apply this to a series of rail superhighways criss-crossing the US: http://newamerica.net/publications/special/steel_wheel_interstates_14053 Electrification also didn't make sense when diesel was 50 cents a gallon or something, and no one thought twice about dumping CO2 into the atmosphere. There's also Denver RTD that just built a gorgeous 25kV/60 electrified rail system. Unfortunately, they put POS Stupidliner V's on their system, but the track and electrification itself is pretty impressive. And then there's Shore Line East and MBTA Providence Line, both of which are 15 years behind the ball on their almost-free electrification. They already have all of the power handling equipment, catenary poles, all they need is a little bit more wire to finish electrifying their routes, and some electric locos. There is definitely a place for lighter density services to run DMUs, but the services that need full-sized 3000hp+ push-pull should all be electrifying. Commuter lines have so many reasons to electrify. There's the performance/speed, local pollution, public image, in addition to operating costs and CO2 emissions. For long-haul freight, it's focused more squarely on CO2 emissions and fuel costs, but it would have other benefits, like establishing renewable energy transmission corridors, and getting more capacity out of mainlines with more powerful electric locomotives that can keep speed up hills, and increased tunnel capacity. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 19:02:24 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:47:28 2015. It's a lot cheaper to put overhead wire in, and it's more energy efficient, but in LIRR's case, the only option is to continue expanding the 3rd rail system. That's still far better than diesel or people driving cars around. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 19:02:27 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:45:59 2015. They could lease from NJT or buy it through NJT and have them maintain them if it's that much of an issue. The NJT equipment model already works with the eggball trains. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 19:04:18 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 18:43:57 2015. Is Amtrak putting NJT through arbitrary BS, or did they just not bother testing them because NJT doesn't need them to go that fast? Either way, it's irrelevant, as the fact of the matter is that they physically can do 125 on the NEC if Amtrak allowed them to. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 19:11:25 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 19:04:18 2015. From the capital planning people at Amtrak, they have said to me they do not like the axle load situation, and urged NJT to order them with 6 wheel trucks. They didn't and this is the result. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 18 20:05:48 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 18 19:11:25 2015. the axle load on ALP45DP is lower than the PL42ac which is 10 tons more on same amount of axles. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 18 21:36:55 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 19:02:27 2015. It depends if you're talking about Hudson or New Haven service. In any case, would it be difficult to have shoes which can handle both types of third rail? |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 18 21:39:41 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:59:38 2015. What's wrong with the Silverliner V's? They seem to be doing quite well. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 19 07:26:02 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 18 21:36:55 2015. all M-8's (except the 30 cars manufactured in Japan) are equipped with third rail that can handle LIRR and NYC third rail, and without any mechanical adjustment. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 20 18:30:57 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 18 20:05:48 2015. Doesn't much matter. The PL42 don't run 100 MPH on the NEC, seldom run south of Rahway, generally rush hours on Bay Head trains. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 20 18:52:57 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 20 18:30:57 2015. still a ALP45dp is 27 000 lbs lighter than Amtraks Genesis so axle load can't have anything to do with it. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Feb 20 19:29:06 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 18 18:22:33 2015. I wasn't going to type links to all the languages that use "Locomotive" for electrics and you well know they are called that all over the world. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Feb 20 19:37:30 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 16 18:50:36 2015. How much easier or cheaper would it be just to have a dedicated diesel and a dedicated electric in the same train? Switch out one with the other when the time is right. I know there will be 1 locomotive of dead weight at any given time, but the costs of DM's kinda offsets that. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Feb 20 19:54:21 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:40:48 2015. Pennsy had these signs at the end of the wire They would have needed bigger signs to spell out locomotive. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 20 20:00:07 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by merrick1 on Fri Feb 20 19:54:21 2015. no self respecting railroader will ever call an Electric Motor " a locomotive". |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by j trainloco on Fri Feb 20 21:46:20 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by 3-9 on Fri Feb 20 19:37:30 2015. I know there will be 1 locomotive of dead weight at any given time, but the costs of DM's kinda offsets that.There would also be the cost of buying and maintaining twice as many locomotives, which the cost of DMs most certainly not offset. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 21 00:05:48 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 20 20:00:07 2015. no self respecting railroader will ever call an Electric Motor " a locomotive".I've jokingly noted that the people with a bias against expansion of electric operations at Metro-North seem to be the two who worked there on diesel locomotives. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 21 06:37:57 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 20 18:52:57 2015. Do Genesis get over 100MPH in the NEC in the rarity that they run Philly - DC ?Amtrak's RR - they make the rules, and they do not much like the ALP45DP, nor NJT in general, for that matter. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 08:51:35 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 21 06:37:57 2015. yes but again the rule making has nothing to do with axle loading. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 08:57:54 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 21 00:05:48 2015. only place CDOT keeps dreaming of electrification is Danbury branch and only trolley cars ;-) MN has no plans to expand electrification. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 21 14:54:22 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 21 00:05:48 2015. Good one! Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of curmudgeons in the railroad industry who can't think beyond tomorrow, can't imagine a better way to do things, because "that's the way we've done it for 50 years". Unfortunately, they are effectively a monopoly on whatever run they do, and without competition, market forces don't apply to them. If there was a market and competition, any railroad with that kind of attitude would go out of business. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 21 14:57:50 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 08:51:35 2015. Just repeating what I heard from them about what their excuse was.I have no idea what all these engines weigh. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 21 14:58:27 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 20 20:00:07 2015. Well that's what most of the world actually calls them. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 21 14:58:29 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by 3-9 on Fri Feb 20 19:37:30 2015. It wouldn't be. They did them for Atlantic City because they didn't really have any better options at the time, but that didn't end up working out anyway. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 21 14:58:42 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 08:57:54 2015. The Hudson Line is the obvious candidate for electrification, but they would need cooperation with Amtrak to get overhead wire up, and new railcars, and all that, so it wouldn't be a cheap endeavor. The New Haven Line and the Harlem Line are all set, so that just leaves the Danbury to New Milford. The Waterbury branch doesn't need electrification. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 21 16:18:28 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Feb 21 14:58:42 2015. Third rail extention on the Hudson Line almost happened. Back in the early 70's Penn Central & The MTA divised funding & had a plan in place to extend 3d rail from Croton-North to Peekskill with a possible future extention twoards Poughkeepsie. Dutchess Co. bitched big time, protesting that the $$$ their kickin into the MTA's piggy bank should not be limited to a Peekskill extention & wanted to see extended electrification all the way to Poughkeepsie in one shot. Why should we be kickin in our taxes on a plan that does not benefit us? How do we know that you'll keep up your end of the deal for future extentions?Well, after a drawn out cat fight, the MTA played hardball(aka screw you all) & killed the 3d rail extention plan outright. So today, 3d rail ends adjacent to the old Croton North Station & will not go another inch further north for the forseeable future. Comes back to the same old problem. Intent is there but the $$$ is not. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 21 16:25:00 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 16 18:34:39 2015. The costs would be astronomical... for what?But it's only a cost if you have to spend it. You don't really have to reelectrify the existing 3rd rail sections, just place catenary wire over the existing diesel segments and run multisystem EMUs. So then the comparison is between electrifying the diesel segments with high voltage AC catenary or lower voltage DC third rail. Maybe, if they wanted to put up with two different fleets for a while, They're already maintaining two different fleets. A fleet of multivoltage EMUs could share many more components and so on with the large DC EMU fleet than the current diesel fleet does. but even that seems like an unnecessarily expensive way of doing things. Again, it's only a cost if you'd otherwise not have to pay it. The C3s and DE/DM30ACs aren't that far from replacement. Swapping them out for multisystem EMUs through attrition really is a no-cost solution, outside of the premium paid for the EMUs. But then dual mode diesels and their special bilevels aren't going to be cheap to build either. IMHO the most pertinent factor is that third rail costs somewhere between half again and twice the money of high voltage AC catenary. For the money to install 3rd rail over half the existing diesel network, you can electrify the entire LIRR diesel system with catenary. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 21 16:49:04 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Feb 18 18:36:05 2015. Oh good, we didn't waste enough money on NJT's dual mode misadventure, lets throw even more good money after bad building another dozen or so Amtrak dual modes from another manufacturer. Maybe this time we can get the cost up to more than $24 million a pop! Dare to dream.Never mind that for the money NJT is pissing away on the DPs they could have electrified most of the network. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 21 20:14:48 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 21 16:18:28 2015. And in fairness, that tax is the same amount as those who have subway service every twenty minutes. Same amount for far less service does make people a bit frustrated when asked to ante up. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 21 20:31:34 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 21 20:14:48 2015. On the other hand, Poughkeepsie to NYC train service is one of the most subsidized services in the entire metro area. Compare the price to the same distance on the New Haven line. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 21 20:34:23 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 21 20:31:34 2015. I would imagine that was a political concession to keep them in the district. I recall many years ago, there was a secession attempt by several northern counties to cut loose from the MTA. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 21 20:38:14 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 21 20:34:23 2015. Or it may just be: we get $x from you; we'll spend it on your county. And since there are so few MTA services in Dutchess County, they get subsidized a lot. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Asgard on Sat Feb 21 20:51:03 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 20 20:00:07 2015. Strange that the Pennsylvania called them "electric engines". |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 21 21:02:35 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 21 20:38:14 2015. Could be. What always got me when I lived down there was that Ulster got taxed and got nothing at all for it. After several years of complaining, they got ONE school bus to the train at Poughkeepsie. As I understand it, they eventually did secede. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 21:09:35 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Asgard on Sat Feb 21 20:51:03 2015. so how is electric engine a engine ??? it does not produce the power it needs its like a toaster or motor plugged into outside source of energy. |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by Asgard on Sat Feb 21 21:25:46 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 21:09:35 2015. That's why it's so odd that the PRR called them "electric engines". |
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Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 21 22:15:07 2015, in response to Re: How 3rd Rail Running Commuter Rail Could Have Avoided / Ameliorated Fiery Crash, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 21 21:09:35 2015. so how is electric engine a engine ???en·gine ˈenjən noun 1. a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion. synonyms: motor, machine, mechanism; More a thing that is the agent or instrument of a particular process. "exports used to be the engine of growth" synonyms: cause, agent, instrument, originator, initiator, generator "the main engine of change" 2. a railroad locomotive. |
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