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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 14:32:21 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 13:48:48 2015.

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But NYCT has had buses from Roosevelt Ave to LGA for 40 or more years. The only difference is that now some of them run express. How does PANYNJ get involved except for the minor item of posting the correct bus line numbers at its bus stops?


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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 23 14:59:48 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 22 20:53:55 2015.

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Was thinking recently that if the TA had opted to lengthen the Flushing Line platforms to hold 12 cars rather than 11, it would have not only increased capacity on the line but would have eliminated the need to order special single cars for the 1964 World’s Fair. Of course with the NTTs there would still be the problem of providing an extra car in the “normal” 5 car sets being ordered for the IRT, but even with that being done, that would make the standard train length on the Flushing Line 600 ft like the standard train length on the BMT/IND even if the IRT cars are bit narrower.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 23 15:02:47 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jan 22 21:00:00 2015.

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I would suspect if that were to happen, the MTA would merely demolish the line between Astoria Blvd and Ditmars and make the necessary adjustments to the bus routes in the area. THAT ought to make the NIMBYs happy!!!!

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(1335237)

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 15:15:26 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 14:32:21 2015.

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How does PANYNJ get involved...

Remember Carey Bus?

From the NY Times - Nov 11, 1997

In a heated dispute that could affect thousands of people commuting to New York City's airports, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has suddenly canceled its 47-year-old agreement with Carey Bus Lines to provide airport service from midtown Manhattan and replaced it with Gray Line New York, the city's largest tour bus company.

The sudden switch was imposed at 12:01 on Sunday morning when the authority's police force barred Carey buses from entering the Port Authority Bus Terminal at Eighth Avenue and 42d Street...

Under terms of its agreement with the Port Authority, Mr. Flateman said Gray Line had obtained several permits for use of the bus terminal and airports, some of them extending over more than 10 years. He said the company had agreed to make payments to the Port Authority that will be adjusted to reflect Gray Line's income, but are expected to be about $1 million a year.


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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Jan 23 15:41:26 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 13:40:33 2015.

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Again what? They are also replacing larger planes with even larger planes. And they will be serving several million more people by 2030.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 23 15:57:26 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by italianstallion on Thu Jan 22 23:32:56 2015.

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This is where my plan of rebuilding the Flushing Line to B division specifications is useful.
You need to move some signals, extend platforms, build a new tunnel under the east river. The 7 is really crowded and with the AIRTRAIN or a 7 extension this will severely relieve crowding.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 16:16:00 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 15:15:26 2015.

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Interesting but irrelevant. PA would get clobbered from all sides if it tried to ban NYCT buses from LGA.

There was nothing realistically stopping express NYCT buses to LGA for the last 40 years other than NYCT not feeling like running them.



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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by pragmatist on Fri Jan 23 16:20:05 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Jan 23 15:41:26 2015.

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The most current examples of airline upsizing that would involve LGA, Southwest buying 737-800s and JetBlue buying A321s. Most industry analysts expect their primary use to be at slot limited airports. Quite a few years ago, very large a/c operated out of LGA, since they were range limited, they were not fully fueled, and could get on and off 7000 foot runways. Eastern had L1011 & A300, American had DC-10, Delta and TWA L1011, United DC-10. Later, 767's were not uncommon, including a very brief use of the 767-400 which is a very large plane. Aside from no margins for error with the runways, they pretty much needed to be at the end gates. The business model for the airlines shifted to more flights with smaller planes, All but the 767's are gone, and domestically, they are mostly on trans-cons.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 16:28:20 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 13:40:33 2015.

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That comes to 71.9 passengers per plane.

But that could hypothetically include 50% of planes having 50 seats and 50% of planes having 150 seats, averaging 71.9% occupied.

Now if you replace all 50 seat planes with 90 seat planes, you've raised capacity by 20% even without raising the occupancy rate.




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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:28:18 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by randyo on Fri Jan 23 15:02:47 2015.

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I'd hope not given the ridership from there. I'd say run 12tph to ditmars and 8tph to LGA

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:29:36 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 23 12:30:22 2015.

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He said 30tph, with Astoria running 20 and R running 10

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:31:23 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 23 13:30:11 2015.

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Perhaps this led to it's failure? What if it was promoted as a real option for the entire airport, with a shuttle connection to the other terminals?

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:33:14 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 23 15:57:26 2015.

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Any 7 extension probably wouldn't add too many new riders, since most are already taking a bus to Flushing for the connection

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:35:13 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 11:54:52 2015.

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So what's the solution then, because you'd throw the same comment if I said run it at roadway level to pass under the flight path

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:41:42 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 12:12:46 2015.

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So because LGA is already a monster, we shouldn't look to serve it? It's a small piece of the congestion puzzle, but every area, neighborhood, district, etc is a small piece. The fact is that we need to expand the rail network to areas that contribute to congestion where reasonably possible. LGA is definitely reasonably possible. But what's it matter, I'm arguing with the person who believes that in a city as dense as NYC, we don't need a second av subway despite overcrowding on the Lex and horrible traffic on the area streets.

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 18:31:04 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 10:07:25 2015.

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You're right. Run a special LIRR shuttle from Willets to Penn every 15 minutes in between regular LIRR trains.

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 18:34:24 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 18:31:04 2015.

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There's not enough capacity at the western end terminals for that

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 18:37:35 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 11:33:51 2015.

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You could underground the subway until 20th, then elevate it after that point.

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 18:44:16 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 18:34:24 2015.

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??

Mid-day, sure there is. Rush hours, there are far more trains than 4 per hour anyway.


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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 18:44:23 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 18:34:24 2015.

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There might be after East Side Access opens.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 19:47:33 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 18:37:35 2015.

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What's your budget?

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 19:51:41 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 18:44:23 2015.

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We keep hearing all sorts of things related to ESA and the plans after it is implemented. It remains to be seen if LIRR will continue running thru trains peak hours to FBA, if they'll redirect all those trains to the 2 Manhattan terminals, if LIRR can/will boost service from east of Jamaica to utilize any new capacity, or if Metro North will come into NYP. Until then, we can't really infer much. My suggestion is LIRR retain full time thru service to FBA and make better use of HPA/LIC and have an information campaign detailing travel times to different parts of the city from the different western terminals. Hopefully then they'll still have space available for both MN to NYP and 20 min headways to all city zone stops. This would include the stop at Willets Pt. If possible, 15 min headways west of Bay side during rush hour. Again, it depends on LIRR wisening up and making the most out of all 4 western terminals instead of relying just on GCT and NYP

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 19:57:46 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 18:44:16 2015.

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True

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 23 20:08:11 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 14:32:21 2015.

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I thought it was Triboro Coach Q33 ?

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 21:03:00 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 23 20:08:11 2015.

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OK, NYCT and its predecessors.


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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 21:12:23 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 18:44:16 2015.

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Rush hours, there are far more trains than 4 per hour anyway.

Only 3 stop at Main St.

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 21:16:46 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 21:12:23 2015.

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More could if the demand were there.


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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jan 23 21:55:14 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 20 18:09:32 2015.

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In the vicinity of the Hell Gate line, the Airtrain could move from being above the divider of the Grand Central to running on the grassy areas between the service roads and the parkway. Once past the railroad, it can return to being elevated above the divider.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jan 23 22:07:08 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 22 23:50:35 2015.

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Huh? Why would strong waterproofing affect people's eardrums?

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 22:24:19 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jan 23 21:55:14 2015.

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Yes, but the problem is that within a block on either side there is an overpass blocking that grassy area. At a minimum the overpasses would have to be rebuilt or removed.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Jan 23 23:30:32 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 09:54:29 2015.

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It would be similar to riding the Blue Line in Chicago to/from O'Hare Airport. That airport rail service seems to be doing just fine after 30 years of service.

Besides, it's the Q17 and the Q27 NYCT bus routes that are the heaviest in ridership to/from Main St-Flushing (the MTA doesn't have individual route ridership for the MTA buses, which are a separate bus division that took over operations from the seven private companies in 2005).

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 24 00:05:41 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Jan 23 23:30:32 2015.

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That Blue Line is one slow ride -- all local stops.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Jan 24 00:07:58 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 24 00:05:41 2015.

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It is, but people do take it. I did when I visited my cousin in Chicago.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 08:54:16 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 21:03:00 2015.

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That would be MTA Bus Company, which has nothing to do with NYCT.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by merrick1 on Sat Jan 24 08:57:25 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 23 22:24:19 2015.

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The Hell Gate Bridge approach has a truss under the track bed. I wonder if they could gain enough head room by rebuilding the approach with a truss above the track bed. I guess it would be difficult to rebuild a three track railroad bridge while maintaining traffic.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by merrick1 on Sat Jan 24 09:04:53 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 23 21:03:00 2015.

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I have the impression that the franchise operators didn't have much ability to change things. The Q 19 was not a very useful route. I think it had one bus assigned and actually missed a trip for the driver's lunch break. I don't think Triboro had the ability to change it.

When MTA bus took over they extended it to Flushing making it a lot more useful.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 09:23:01 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 24 00:05:41 2015.

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They can do skip/stop again to save 5 minutes.

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 09:25:00 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:28:18 2015.

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N to one and W to the other ?

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 09:38:58 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 19:51:41 2015.

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All depends on what their operating budget will allow, regardless of what they "promise" today.

LIRR Willets Point would have to become a full-time stop, made ADA, would be more of a schlep than from the #7 station, and LIRR would be that much more opposed to a new Elmhurst station down the track. Outer Port Washington Branch passengers don't want 3 or 4 minutes added to the schedule for these. As it is, the local Poirt Wash schedule with all the trains and all the stop looks like a Trigonometry table.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jan 24 09:56:53 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 23 20:08:11 2015.

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NYCT has the Q48 which goes into the Airport from Roosevelt Ave as well.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 10:01:51 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jan 24 09:56:53 2015.

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20 minute intervals is pretty awful.

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 24 10:51:45 2015, in response to Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by gOlD_12tH on Tue Jan 20 11:59:31 2015.

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This bits and pieces approach to L G A is B S.

Pay close attention. Let's connect them ALL>

JFK to LGA via the Rockaway Branch, Montauk Branch, Fresh Meadows, to Hells Gate approach, to a double deck helix type connection.
Departures on top, arrivals on the lower level and out.
JFK to Newark via Rockaway Branch, Montauk Branch, 63Rd St. Tunnel, 6Th Ave to 34St. NYPENN, PATH to NJPENN to Newark Airport.

Somewhere in the Sunnyside area, a three way transfer to change to JFK bound, or LGA bound or NYC/Newark bound.

On the Montauk section of the JFK branch, a shuttle to Jamaica for service to Ronkonkoma/MacArthur Airport.

Type of rolling stock, maybe PATH, or WAMTA type or New Haven AC/DC type, with routing through NY Penn.


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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 11:05:50 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 24 10:51:45 2015.

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Sounds like a conceptual, connect the dots planner scheme that has no acceptance of reality.

Neither Amtrak nor LIRR will tolerate a Sunnyside station as it would gunk up the operations around Harold.

The Main Line to Hicksville is stuck at 2 tracks for the forseeable decade.

The Lower Montauk has been leased about to the NY&A. LIRR does not have trackage rights without a pilot.

PATH and WMATA type rolling stock cannot run on a FRA RR requiring 800,000 lbs buff strength. PATH has a partial exemption at 400,000 lbs. Other rapid transit is at best 200,000 lbs

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jan 24 11:08:21 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 09:25:00 2015.

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Sure, or even just split ended Ns similar to the A. Where would a new line terminate on the southern end?

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jan 24 11:12:49 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Jan 23 23:30:32 2015.

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When there are better options, why settle for garbage? I'd rather a separate airtrain system built with facility fee money to Astoria or Jackson Hts and transfer than a one seat 7 train ride

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jan 24 11:17:59 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 23 21:12:23 2015.

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We're talking Willets Pt, and service can be added. In the PM it's a little more difficult though just because the way the schedule is laid out for the sake of local stops connecting at Great Neck for E of Great Neck stops

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jan 24 11:20:28 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 24 09:38:58 2015.

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Unfortunately, Elmhurst is being done, which is a joke. Corona at least doesn't have any rail transit to the south. I guess the good news is I'll be able to connect to the QB local lines now? Oh wait, I don't live in Port Washington anymore. Adding Willets Pt full time is something that would just have to be accepted if this is done. Sorry if they don't like it.

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(1335415)

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Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years)

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Jan 24 12:39:17 2015, in response to Re: AirTrain Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport ($450 Million, 5 years), posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 23 17:31:23 2015.

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The ferry picked up passengers only at Wall St. with no midtown pickup point. And IIRC, the fare wasn't cheap, although cheaper than the helicopter service that Trump (now US Airways) Shuttle offered for a while.

with a shuttle connection to the other terminals?

Moving from Marine Air terminal to the others is a bitch. We need an Airtrain there!

And unless it's faster than Subway/LIRR+Q70, I don't think people will pay the higher fare.

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Re: Case Against LGA Link

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 24 12:50:37 2015, in response to Re: Case Against LGA Link, posted by merrick1 on Sat Jan 24 09:04:53 2015.

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They always had the ability to seek City permission to change their routes.

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Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 24 12:51:58 2015, in response to Re: Air Train Proposed To Connect (7) Line With LaGuardia Airport; video, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jan 24 11:20:28 2015.

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They might do it anyway once the Iron Triangle becomes a real neighborhood.

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