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| (1228852) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 14 18:47:23 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 18:14:11 2013. No signage, no announcements.How true. If there was signage it was probably covered by graffiti. I supposed that the conductor was supposed to make announcements over the PA system. But in those days we were glad if the train at least moved. The PA system and lights were simply extras. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1228853) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by FWT9000 on Fri Jun 14 18:48:47 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 13 21:12:54 2013. Is this what you are looking for? |
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| (1228856) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 18:51:32 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 14 18:43:15 2013. True, but the map never told you where a Q train ran. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1228859) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 18:57:49 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 14 18:47:23 2013. I remember that in the 70's/early 80's if the PA's worked, it was noteworthy. Only time I ever encountered regular PA announcements back then was when we took the A train to the Museum and it was an R44. Still remember the shock in 1982 or 1983 at hearing a female conductor, which was quite a novelty back then. |
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| (1228862) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 14 19:12:43 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 18:51:32 2013. True, but the map never told you where a Q train ran. \Chris: I have both the 1965 and pre-Chryste Street 1967 maps in front of me. They contain the following information for the "Q" train. Q - Brighton Express (via bridge) 57 Street - Brighton Beach Mon - Fri 6 AM to 7 PM The 1967 maps adds the following not " Local in Bklyn 9 AM to 3 PM. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1228868) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 19:24:27 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Jun 13 15:39:10 2013. The F line bypassed 169th only during rush hour (when the E ran enough service to handle demand). It ran express between Church and Bergen only during rush hour, and (after 1972) only trains that ran to Coney Island. Kings Highway trains ran local. The Culver el express service was instituted after 1976. The 4 ran to Flatbush rush hours, Atlantic Ave middays and Utica Ave evenings and weekends. The A/E/HH thing could get confusing, since what ran local and express on Fulton St was constantly changing. Sometimes E, sometimes A. |
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| (1228892) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jun 14 21:03:26 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by FWT9000 on Fri Jun 14 18:48:47 2013. Dat be da one I told you about. get it! |
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| (1228905) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jun 14 21:40:28 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 18:25:23 2013. Especially on the Eastern Division where they did not even identify the routes by numbers. You never saw a 10, 14, 15, or 16 on any subway map. |
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| (1228919) | |
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Posted by FWT9000 on Fri Jun 14 22:21:42 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jun 14 21:03:26 2013. This guy has it cheaperBetter bargain here Cool book Has all the BMT maps Wish there is one like this for the IRT |
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| (1228929) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by b1bus on Fri Jun 14 22:36:24 2013, in response to Old Subway Maps, posted by BusRider on Thu Jun 13 13:03:01 2013. The CC once had 3 uptown and 3 downtown terminals.Bedford Pk Blvd RH 145st Midday, evening, 168st weekend Rock park RH Euclid ave Midday evening WTC weekend. before being streamlined into 1 service. |
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| (1228931) | |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri Jun 14 22:38:19 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 19:24:27 2013. The "4" also ran to Flatbush Ave. via Bklyn local nights and early Sunday mornings (until 10:30 am) when the "3" did not operate. As far as the "A" and "E", I can shed some light from approx. 1974.Starting with the "A": ran between 207 St & Lefferts Blvd 24/7, express in Manhattan 34/7, local in Brooklyn all times except rush hours when it operated express. Also ran between 207 St & Far Rockaway 7 days a week from 6:00am-11:30pm, express in Manhattan, local in Brooklyn except rush hours when it operated express. Also the "A" ran between Euclid Ave & Far Rockaway via Rockaway Pk 7 days a week from 11:30pm-6:00am-thus known as "The Round Robin". This arrangement remained until 8/77 when ”A” began operating local in Manhattan during midnight hours; 12/88, the ”A” runs express in Brooklyn from 6:00am-9:00pm; sometime in 1992, the ”A” began operating to Far Rockaway 24/7 and the Lefferts Blvd ”A” running btwn Euclid Ave. & Lefferts Blvd midnights. Also during this time, a third ”A” began operating btwn 59 St-Columbus Circle and Rockaway Pk peak direction only. I'm not sure when the ”A” began operating express in Brooklyn 7 days a week-maybe '98/'99. As for the ”E”: ran from 179 St-World Trade Ctr 24/7-express in Queens from Queens Plz-71 Ave and local in Manhattan. During rush hours, extended past WTC to Euclid Ave and Rockaway Pk-express in Manhattan, local in Brooklyn. Also operated as a shuttle between Broad Channel and Rockaway Pk all times except rush hours and midnight hours. This arrangement lasted until 8/76 when it was discontinued south of WTC. In 12/88 began operating to Jamaica Ctr. |
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| (1228953) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 03:58:28 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jun 14 21:40:28 2013. Not until 1955. I bet people saw the numbers and said "whuh?" ... |
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| (1228954) | |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 04:06:15 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jun 14 16:38:25 2013. That route lasted a whopping 7 months.Oddly enough, had the R27/30/32 cars been used east prior to 1967, these trains would have been signed KK as this letter was originally assigned to the old BMT 14 route, not the 6th Ave IND. |
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| (1228955) | |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 04:09:25 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by BusRider on Fri Jun 14 16:01:16 2013. Similar, but not identical. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 04:12:23 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 14 18:02:26 2013. By the time I worked the KK in late 1969, there was no longer any PM skip stop service on the J. |
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| (1228957) | |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 04:15:22 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 19:24:27 2013. The rush hour Fs that ran exp between Church and Bergen also ran exp between K/Hwy and Church in the peak direction of traffic. I worked a run that did that on my last trip in 1969. |
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| (1228958) | |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 04:17:17 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri Jun 14 22:38:19 2013. Right.The service today is considerably more simplified. There are just a lot fewer rush hour only services these days. |
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| (1229023) | |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 12:14:19 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 03:58:28 2013. But, never on the maps, Chris! There were never any numbered BMT routes on pre-MTA subway maps. Like the World's Fair one, for example. |
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| (1229041) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 15 13:51:52 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 04:06:15 2013. I'll bet it beat the NX for duration. :) |
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| (1229042) | |
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Posted by NorthShore on Sat Jun 15 14:11:02 2013, in response to Old Subway Maps, posted by BusRider on Thu Jun 13 13:03:01 2013. There was an RR rush-hour only service from 95 St.,Bat Ridge to Chambers St. via Nassau St. |
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| (1229049) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 14:39:35 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by NorthShore on Sat Jun 15 14:11:02 2013. And later, a diamond "R". |
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| (1229052) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 14:47:20 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 15 03:58:28 2013. People on the 14 St Line were used to seeing the 13/14 St Fulton and 16/14 St Canarsie on the Multis. |
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| (1229053) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 14:52:25 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jun 14 18:25:23 2013. On the Hagstrom maps, the IND was in red, the IRT was in blue and the BMT was in yellow. These were the same colors displayed in the cars themselves. What is interesting is that although until the creation of the NYCTA in 1953, the Dyre Av Line was jurisdictionally part of the iND and used IRT crews despite using IRT rolling stock, the Hagstrom maps showed it in IRT blue on all its maps from the time of the city takeover. |
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| (1229057) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 15 14:59:18 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 14:52:25 2013. Just to check, wasn't Dyre IND crews until E180 got hooked up? |
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| (1229065) | |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 15:40:42 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 15 14:59:18 2013. I'm not sure of the exact date the changeover was actually made. The principal reason that Dyre was initially part of the IND was the way the law was written requiring all new or newly acquired rapid transit lines other than the ones acquired through unification to be part of the IND. In addition since the entire NYW&B ROW within the city limits was purchase by the city, it became a possible Bronx extension for the SAS (which it sill potentially is) and would be able to replace the proposed Morris Pk Av subway which was part of the IND second system. |
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| (1229066) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 15 15:47:43 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 15:40:42 2013. I remember being told that it was IND crews by my old compatriots until the connection at E180 was made, but I'm not sure of when either beyond hearing just that it was IND until then. I think I heard somewhere around 1955 or 1956 was when it changed to an IRT pick, but can't swear to it. |
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| (1229074) | |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 16:13:19 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 15:40:42 2013. I always thought that the Dyre Ave line was IND because it had been purchased with funding earmarked for the IND Concourse extension. Plus, the IRT and BMT were not getting any new routes. |
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| (1229076) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 16:15:04 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 16:13:19 2013. I'm not entirely familiar with all the details but it's possible that may have entered into it as well. |
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| (1229079) | |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 16:20:30 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 16:15:04 2013. The City was not going to buy it for the IRT, that's for sure. unification talks had already begun in 1936. |
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| (1229080) | |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Jun 15 16:48:37 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 15 15:40:42 2013. Considering how lightly used the Dyre Avenue line is would it make sense to connect it to the SAS? |
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| (1229194) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:46:56 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 16:20:30 2013. I know that, but by the time the purchase was completed, unification had already taken place. |
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| (1229195) | |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:48:12 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by merrick1 on Sat Jun 15 16:48:37 2013. Since the city was planning on an almost parallel Morris Pk Av subway as part of the IND second system, it probably did at the time. |
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| (1229196) | |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:48:22 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by merrick1 on Sat Jun 15 16:48:37 2013. Since the city was planning on an almost parallel Morris Pk Av subway as part of the IND second system, it probably did at the time. |
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| (1229197) | |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:48:40 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 16:20:30 2013. I know that, but by the time the purchase was completed, unification had already taken place. |
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| (1229529) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Gene B. on Mon Jun 17 15:29:10 2013, in response to Old Subway Maps, posted by BusRider on Thu Jun 13 13:03:01 2013. I have a 1948 NYC Subway Map which omits the Culver Line entirely. |
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| (1229567) | |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 16:23:35 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Gene B. on Mon Jun 17 15:29:10 2013. Which one would that be? I recall the old circa 1945 Hagstrom maps in the subway which still showed the HH Court St shuttle and the 3 Av El service to Freeman St with the Culver Line shown as an IND line. In the lower left hand corner of the map was a sticker indicating that the Court St Shuttle was not in operation, the 3 Av Freeman St service had been discontinued, and the Culver Line was under temporary BMT operation S/O Ditmas Av. Apparently it was intended to have the iND operate via the Culver long before the IND was actually extended there. Another IND map which was in the cars a copy of which I believe is in one of the R-9 museum cars contains a service guide showing the HH Fulton St Local as operating between Court and Bway/ENY and the IND Fulton St Line going to Euclid. Both Maps are slightly anachronistic in that they show the IND going to Euclid but the HH shuttle was eliminated before the IND was extended to Euclid and possibly even before it was extended to ENY. |
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Posted by Gene B. on Mon Jun 17 17:52:03 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 16:23:35 2013. It is the 1948 route map and detail from the historical maps section of this website for 1940-1960. |
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| (1229611) | |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:28:33 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 14 18:12:33 2013. If you're talking about the original K, it was cut back to Broadway Junction and still ran to 57th St. This was in 1973. The QJ became the J at the same time; it was permanently truncated to Broad St. |
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| (1229638) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 17 19:15:32 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:28:33 2013. I could swear that at some point (probably the 80's) there was a K bullet on stations on 8th Avenue ... I have no idea of how that worked. :) |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Mon Jun 17 19:31:56 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 17 19:15:32 2013. I could swear that at some point (probably the 80's) there was a K bullet on stations on 8th Avenue ... I have no idea of how that worked. :)That was just the AA in dark glasses after they gave up on double letters. Eventually, the C ate it. |
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Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 19:36:15 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Gene B. on Mon Jun 17 17:52:03 2013. When I look up the historical maps section all I get are map covers, not the actual maps. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 17 19:45:29 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by FWT9000 on Fri Jun 14 22:21:42 2013. The IRT was bankrupt from 1932 until Unification in 1940. I do not believe that the IRT printed any route maps. Am I right, guys? |
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Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 17 19:52:39 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by kew gardens teleport on Mon Jun 17 19:31:56 2013. Damned hippies! :) |
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Posted by NorthShore on Mon Jun 17 20:37:09 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 17 19:45:29 2013. Maps were usually published by map companies such as Hagstrom and sold or given away by banks.etc. |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Mon Jun 17 20:42:09 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 17 19:45:29 2013. They had mapshttp://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/irt_1939.jpg I recall one from 1937 and earlier ones too. They had station guides on the back IIRC They are rare - never been able to afford one on ebay Just wishing someone would put them together in a book like the guy did for the BMT |
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| (1229686) | |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 17 20:42:46 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 19:36:15 2013. I think he means here:http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Historical_Maps |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Mon Jun 17 20:54:01 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jun 15 12:14:19 2013. The numbers were on the service guides on the back of the BMT mapshttp://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/bmt_1939_wf3.jpg |
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| (1229694) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 17 20:58:33 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by fwt9000 on Mon Jun 17 20:54:01 2013. I was talking about the 1960's maps. I have the pre-Unification ones! |
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| (1229700) | |
Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Mon Jun 17 21:09:30 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 17 20:58:33 2013. you're rightthe numbers vanished after the city took over IIRC lettered routes for the southern division started appearing after the 1964 Worlds Fair but the eastern division had names only till 1967 The IRT section had route names only till the 67 map IIRC |
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Re: Old Subway Maps |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 23:09:56 2013, in response to Re: Old Subway Maps, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri Jun 14 22:38:19 2013. I'm not sure when the ”A” began operating express in Brooklyn 7 days a week-maybe '98/'99.1999. |
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