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| Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line (1181375) | |
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| (1181864) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 12:47:45 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Oct 17 07:36:05 2012. I know it's nice playing armchair general, but it never would have happened. Although the 155St/8Av station could support steel subway cars, there would be other issues, as well. Remove Sedgewick Ave station platforms, widen tunnel clearances east of Anderson/Jerome, plus one more thing that no one brought up here. The old Putnam Bridge was the last steam powered swing bridge in NYC. It would need to have been rebuilt or replaced. Remember, there was a Recession, starting in late 1956. Also, the TA did not have the money for this project. The 2nd Ave subway funding had been diverted to keep the existing lines running. |
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| (1181869) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:02:33 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 12:47:45 2012. During that era, any precious capital funding not needed to replace the aging IRT and BMT fleet was sucked up by Christie St. I can see why this project would have been rejected. |
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| (1181871) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 13:17:55 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Ian Lennon on Fri Oct 19 01:03:36 2012. MD-80 were tri jets..based on DC-10. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1181872) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 13:21:11 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:02:33 2012. There was just too much to do: Build a subway-to el connector, rehab the 155St/8Av el station, replace steam powered Putnam Bridge, remove Sedgewick Ave station platforms (Putnam gone- not needed anymore), widen tunnel east of Anderson/Jerome, plus other rehabs on the 40 year old structure (in 1958). If you really wanted to go to the west side of Manhattan, just take the "D" or "CC" (back then) to 59th Street/Columbus Circle and catch the #1. |
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| (1181876) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 13:30:14 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 12:47:45 2012. YUP..and all of the rest went to the various Chrystie st subway linked projects..and even that was half built..lacking key factors that are still needed till this very day...like the Nassau st connection.. Even without the SAS..this was a great idea that should have been built..that whole mess that we went through from 1986 to mid 2004 would have been avoided since B/D train could use the Nassau Loop for Grand st/6th avenue service.. |
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| (1181878) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:32:47 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 13:21:11 2012. I doubt they would have saved the 155th St el station. If done, the line would have run from the 145th St yard, probably next to or underneath the Harlem River drive to the Putnam Bridge, next stop being Sedgwick Ave. |
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| (1181879) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 13:34:40 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 13:30:14 2012. Yea, building Christie St to allow service to the WillyB or to Nassau St would have saved a lot of grief! And possible new service options! |
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| (1181882) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 13:49:35 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:32:47 2012. Trouble was that almost nobody rode the shuttle (and used Sedgwick Ave) after the Putnam Division was closed in May of 1958. Except, perhaps, a few Jehovahs Witnesses shuttling between their conventions at Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds! Most of them probably used 161/River and 155th/8th on the IND. |
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| (1181883) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 13:52:05 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 11:11:51 2012. Actually, it was not as simple as that. Moses was willing to take the fall as he didn't have to worry about re-election but quite frankly there was little support for O'Malley within the Board of Estimate (not here to defend Moses but he wasn't the only one who felt to make a hand out to O'Malley who was making more money than anybody else in baseball was absurd. Also the inconvenient eminent domain laws were an impediment and those existed till todya. Look how long it took to build Barclay Centerbecause of litigation). Also a lot of the opposition, too, was the usual Manhattan centric view point that Brooklyn was not all that important. Couple that with the absurd offer the Los Angeles city cvouncil was making to O'Malley and quite frankly, the proposed Styadium never had a chance. |
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| (1181884) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:52:26 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 13:49:35 2012. If the Polo Grounds had not been there, the entire line would have probably gone in 1940. Interestingly enough, even by 1950 the 155th el yards were already covered with high rise housing. However, would anyone really choose taking the shuttle to the Bronx for the #4 over the IND at 155th and 8th? Probably not. |
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| (1181887) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:55:47 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 13:52:05 2012. O'Malley himself was persuadable to stay, he just wanted a ballpark in Brooklyn that was both auto friendly and accessible by subway. His family wanted out, particularly his kids. They saw the well-underway urban decay and saw California as the Promised Land. They pushed him over the edge, and any attempt by the city to meet his demands of a new ballpark in Brooklyn would have probably not worked. LA's desperation at getting a major league baseball team also helped, they basically gave him Chavez Ravine for nothing. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 13:57:39 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 13:49:35 2012. more than just a few "witnesses" they ran 4 car trains to accomadate them. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:00:10 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 13:52:26 2012. Not in those neighborhoods on either side of the river. They were bad back then. When we visited relatives in the Bronx, my father used to use the 155th St Bridge. I used to see the shuttle structures. Anyone know when they removed the shuttle structures and the Putnam bridge? |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:03:05 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 13:57:39 2012. TR, do you know when they tore down the shuttle and bridge? |
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| (1181891) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 14:05:00 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:00:10 2012. here`s an interesting fact.the putnam bridge WAS owned by the NYCRR which charged the t.a. $17.000 a year in rental charges untill service ended. |
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| (1181892) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:07:03 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 13:52:05 2012. I heard that there were other possible sites in Brooklyn being considered, including East NY. Do you know where they were? |
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| (1181893) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:12:17 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 14:05:00 2012. Interesting, I did not realize that. But the bridge was the last steam powered one in NYC. So, they had to pay boiler tenders in addition to the bridge tenders. Right? Yet another reason not to connect the #3 from lenox ave. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 14:12:49 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:07:03 2012. Yhere was a whole set of books written including several that were devoted to showing it wasn't O'Malley but Moses. I don't remember exact locations but none of them were very palatable as Moses was determined that the proper location for the Dodgers was the Stadium he intended to build in Flusing Meadow.Howeverf to this day, I feel there were/are two locations that would have worked real well but apparently were never considered. One was Floyd Bennet Field.....good highway access but of course no rapid transit access (thank yoou for not building the extensions of the Nostrrand Avenue line and the Utica Avenue line.) Or...as MCU (aka Keyspan) Stadium has proven, Coney Island would have been awesome. Just picture a major league baseball stadium during a warm summer night with the Atlantic Ocen as a backdrop to right field. No it was never considered but the succdess of the Cyclones shows it might have worked (and of course you have the Stillwell Avenue subway terminal a couple of blocks away as well as the Belt Parkway). Hindsigh is so good, isn't it. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:14:20 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:00:10 2012. Sometime prior to 1964. Aerials from that year show it gone, the earliest post 1958 aerials I've seen. I bet it went before 1960, being a navigation hazard. |
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| (1181897) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:18:19 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 14:03:05 2012. In 1963 the Jerome Ave station was still standing, but the structure between it and the #4 line was gone: It's completely gone by 1966, according to Historic Aerials. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 14:21:40 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:18:19 2012. I remember as a kid attending Yankee games in 1962 and 1963 paying $1.30 for general admission tickets which were behind home plate and dependng on the advance coud be anywhere from a few rows up in the upper deck to the last 3rows.In anyh event I remember looking out over the bleachers to the subway line (the #4) leaving 161 Street and did see a structure that I had no idea of what it was heading for the next stop on the #4 train (167). Of course, since the shuttle had been discontinued, it wasn't listed on any maps at the time! |
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| (1181902) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:33:34 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 14:12:49 2012. Coney Island was already on the skids by the late 1950's. It was a different mindset then. Urban areas were considered unrecoverable, and everyone looked to the suburbs as where the future was. Urban renewal was for negros. |
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| (1181903) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 14:43:25 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:33:34 2012. ....then in reality (and I don't necessarily disagree with you) one would have to say Moses, who has been vilified to this day on the question of the removal of the Dodger franchise, was correct namely that the best locaton for the Dodgers would have been Flushing Meadow right smack in the middle of three different expressways all the better to bring the Dodgers' nouveau rich from their suburban homes on Long Island with the two car garages.It is unfortunate people are pointing to whatever success Barcvlay Center might have as proof that Atlantic/Flatbush would have worked for baseball. I just don't think one can compare an arena holding 17k to an outdoor stadium holding 65k and all the problems associated with it. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, and really I don't mean to vindicate Moses who was a disgusting human being, if O'Malley didn't have a ridiculous offer from LA in his pocket (to give away public land and all the oil rights that might be found there plus to kick people off land they had lived on for years using eminent domain laws_, the Dodgers probably end up in Fluyshing Meadow and can you imagine a powerful Brooklyn Dodger team moving into a new baseball stadium in 1964 with the World's Fair going on next door? And although I know there are a lot of younger people here who think Shea Stadium was a dump, the fact is that when it opened, it was considered a state of the art ball park with many of the same features as Dodger Stadium. Perhaps it might even have ended up looking like Dodger Stadium if O'Mally had been allowed to have some say in its construction although Shea Stadium was built ithe way it was so it could handle both baseball and football whereas Dodger Stadium has never, to the best of my knowledge ever hosted a football game. Of course, another villain in this is Admiral Yamamoto as the American Legue had scheduled a meeting in Chicago to vote on allowing the St. Louis Browns to move to Los Angeles. The only probelm was the meeting was scheduled for 08 Demcember 1941 and somehow something more important occurred the dahy before. Thank yhou Admiral Yamamoto. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:59:36 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 14:43:25 2012. Indeed, the Shea Stadium site was perfect for the Dodgers, except for one MAJOR problem: it's not in Brooklyn. They were NOT the New York Dodgers. O'Malley, with some justification, wanted a Brooklyn site. His demands for one in Downtown Brooklyn were probably unrealistic. Had he waited a few years, though the PRR would have probably sold him the Atlantic Yards site for a song, though even this area was not as auto friendly as he wanted. Floyd Bennet Field was also a pretty good location, given that the airfield there closed shortly beforehand, and the land was available. But the area is isolated from mass transit, and the Belt Parkway was not yet built there in the mid 50's, when O'Malley began agitating for a new stadium. It was on the fringes, and the city was pushing Flushing. There was no strong advocate for the FBF option.A couple of other things that get lost in this story. One, being that, outside Brooklyn there was hatred or indifference to the Dodgers' situation. The Yankees enjoyed more widespread support across most of the city. Even the Giants had strong connections to Manhattan and the Bronx. Unification diluted the Dodgers' appeal to a new city government. A lot of people probably didn't give a damn if the Dodgers left. The other was the simmering racism that created bad blood between a lot of baseball fans and the Dodgers. Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, bringing black fans into major league parks in huge numbers for the first time, especially as the Negro Leagues began folding in the mid 50's. A lot of people saw that, like inner cities, baseball itself may decline as black fans took over, driving white fans away and leading to the ghetto-ization of the sport. There was a strong desire to build new ballparks AWAY from the inner city to keep the crowds as white as possible. Ironically, by the time Bill Shea made his epic move to get NYC an NL expansion team in 1960, this fear had abated drastically. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 19 15:25:41 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 18 19:06:35 2012. Actually, you were right the first time since east of Anderson/Jerome is on el structure. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 19 15:30:23 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 12:24:40 2012. That's true based on the current stat of the infrastructure. if the line had been modified as intended, however, the Yankee Stadium would either have to have been built slightly south of its present location or the old stadium rebuilt where it stood. |
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| (1181916) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 15:44:45 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 19 15:30:23 2012. It would have been a TIGHT fit if they had lost that northern strip of land occupied by the shuttle structure. Remember, they had to construct it at the same time the old stadium was still there, so no overlapping was possible.You can even see they had to shave the turnouts back a bit to squeeze the stadium in. My guess is they left as little as possible to avoid compromising the structure of the el on River Ave. |
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| (1181918) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Oct 19 15:48:58 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 19 11:11:51 2012. i agree about robert moses nyc's favorite jackass.chud1 |
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| (1181920) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 15:51:56 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by chud1 on Fri Oct 19 15:48:58 2012. Moses did build most of our roads, and it's be impossible to drive around this city without them. He was a net negative for the city, but his road legacy is a plus. |
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| (1181922) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 16:07:05 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 17 14:20:43 2012. It should have been easy to keep the second platform on Van Sinderen for such services. Demand is still higher west of here and even back in the 80's some trains started their runs at Atlantic, using the "middle platform". |
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| (1181923) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 16:08:50 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:59:36 2012. ...you see very knowledgeable about this as I am and I've spent the last 55 years of my life being very bitter towards O'Maslley; this resentment has only abated a bit because I still feel what he did was wrong and greedy as the Dodgers were the biggest money makers in baseball at the time (even more so than the Yankees). Having said that, and having read every book and article that has cvome out about this, I have changed my view point a bit about Moses and I indicated above. Moses was the biggest spokesman for an anti Brooklyn Dodger feeling as you indicated whicvh existed throughout many levels of the NYC government including Mayor Wagner and the rest of his Manhattan centric city administration. Also it is a fact that condemning the land at Atlantic/Flatbush would have cost, according to Moses, $10,000.000 in 1957 dollars and at some point, a ramp would have haqd to have been built off the BQE in terms of the coming of agee of the automobile.If the St. Louis Brown who for a long time had an eye on Los Angeles, even after the aborted attempt in 1941, had ever been able t5o get themselves to Los Angeles, the offer is never made, probably, by the LA cit government and then what? I, for one, have never thought it was a big deal Flushing Meadow was not in Brooklyhn. The boundary between Brooklyn and Queens, of course, is totally artifricial except in the extreme western part where the Newtown Creek forms the boundary. It was simply based on the silly way some Dutch towns were laid out in the 17th century. Federal court cases involving Queens are heard in Brooklyhn Federal Court (as are those in Nassau and Suffolk counties). If O'Malley does not have the wicvked offer by the LA city government, chancdes are he long since moved to Flushing and the team would be playing there today robably still as the Brooklyhn Dodgers! To me, O'Malley's greed is still the #1 problem not as much Moses and the rest of the Manhattan centric NYC government which of curse is still with us to this day! |
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| (1181924) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 16:13:27 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 16:08:50 2012. I understand your scorn. My father cursed O'Malley until the day he died, even though he moved to the Mets in the 60's. But O'Malley only deserves SOME of the blame for the Dodgers moving to LA. Conditions, economics, race relations and politics also played their part. Of course, the politicians just loved the "blame O'Malley" line.O'Malley's biggest mistake was insisting, even as the 1957 season was winding down that the Dodgers were not moving, even while he was negotiating with LA city officials. It made the betrayal all the more painful. |
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| (1181926) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 16:16:25 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 15:51:56 2012. don`t forget the city & state parks he also built. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 16:23:21 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 16:16:25 2012. True. |
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| (1181932) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 16:40:06 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 16:16:25 2012. ....of course he was very careful in designing the parkways leading to the state parks on Long Island to design the overpasses in such a way that buses carrying hoardes of disadvantaged city youths (including poor immingrants from the lower East Side who at the time were mostly Jewishand later on black city kids) from "polluting" his state parks on the Island (this according to Caro in the great book of the 1970's about Moses' life called the Power Broker which, by the way, had only one sentence in it regarding the whole situation with the Dodgers). |
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| (1181933) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 16:47:09 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 16:40:06 2012. This is an untrue urban legend. Buses used these roadways and do so to this day. Moses was a huge racist, but he is not guilty of this particular act. |
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Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 19 17:23:36 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 16:08:50 2012. A new ramp would not have to have been built from the BQE since there are already 2 exits in both directions coming off the BQE that are as close to the Atlantic/Flatbush area as they can physically be. |
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| (1181945) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 18:20:08 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Michael549 on Wed Oct 17 14:24:08 2012. BTW....even before the transfer was constructed at 171 Street, there was a transfer from wht is now the 4 to what is now the D and B via tickets. I don't know when that transfer started with a ticket but the transfer was completed I believe sometime in teh 1960's (abut how they would be able to keep people from taking the #4 to Yankee Stadium getting a ticket and then taking the D in the opposite direction is something I don't get or remember how it would be avoidable. |
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| (1181958) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 19 19:37:28 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 15:51:56 2012. No, the road legacy is a negative. |
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| (1181959) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 19 19:40:54 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 16:47:09 2012. As I understood it, while buses fit under the overpasses (and a few of the originals remain), they weren't allowed on the parkways for a number of years. Of course, my source was "The Power broker", f which I've only read excerpts, so if the book is wrong, or I took soemthing out of context, than I'd be wrong.But there's no doubt that buses use the parkways nowadays. I see it all the time. |
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| (1181961) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 19 19:45:42 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MATHA531 on Fri Oct 19 16:08:50 2012. speaking as a DC raised person, the real fault lies w/MLB and the US Congress having given them a pass on the anti-monopoly statutes. NONE of the gladiator sports team should have the right to walk on their location w/o the permission of the city/county involved. The one team in the NFL that behaves correctly is of course the "socialist" Packers. The "owners" should be merely contract managers/operators like Veolia/Herzog etc. |
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| (1181963) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 19 19:48:25 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:33:34 2012. Yeah...people really had given up on the urban core back then. |
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| (1181964) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 19:55:26 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 19 19:40:54 2012. They weren't allowed because most of these parkways prohibited commercial vehicles. No trucks. No beese. Just cars. Race was not the motivating factor, keeping traffic moving was. |
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| (1181965) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 19 19:55:32 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:59:36 2012. I have to correct you on one point- the Belt Parkway opened in 1940- well ahead of many other highways...minor detail that doesn't detract form the conversation..but here you go:http://www.nycroads.com/roads/belt/ |
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| (1181967) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 19:56:37 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 19 19:37:28 2012. You try getting to LaGuardia without the GCP. |
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| (1181970) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 20:00:57 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 19 19:55:32 2012. There's no such thing as the Belt Parkway per se, it's the "Belt System" which consisted of many segments. Although, looking at a 1951 aerial photo, it was either already open or construction was well underway. |
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| (1181972) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 19 20:07:04 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 19:56:37 2012. 
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| (1181998) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 20:50:09 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 19 20:07:04 2012. 
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| (1182003) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 21:31:20 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Oct 19 16:16:25 2012. or his housings complexes..some schools..and stuff he did in other parts of the state as well as the technical advise he gave to other cites. |
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| (1182004) | |
Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 21:45:34 2012, in response to Re: Polo grounds shuttle was to be connected to Lenox Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 19 14:33:34 2012. since I know more about the subject and the cause/effect of the downward turn..especially about the "negro" speculation..i'll continue to allow you to bury yourself in your mound of bullshit...until i figure you shitted on yourself enough..then ill save you with the PROPER CORRECTION..Then again,since I love watching you make an ass out of yourself..I'll continue to watch. |
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