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| LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information (1125633) | |
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| (1125633) | |
LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Dec 19 10:38:44 2011   |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 19 13:59:25 2011, in response to LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Dec 19 10:38:44 2011. RFP: Richmond, Fredricksburg, and Potomac? |
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| (1125685) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 15:43:34 2011, in response to LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Dec 19 10:38:44 2011. I do hope this is the end of MN's idea of MLV/electric loco nonsense.All they need to do is look at NJT and say don't let this happen to you. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1125729) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Dec 19 18:10:50 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 15:43:34 2011. What would be nice are multilevel MUs... not the entire train but maybe 3 car sets with a multilevel in the middle. Use them primarily on heavy hitter lines like Ronkonkoma. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 18:46:14 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Dec 19 18:10:50 2011. What would be nice are multilevel MUsNo they wouldn't. Unless you like longer dwell times? |
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| (1125737) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 18:47:47 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 15:43:34 2011. I do hope this is the end of MN's idea of MLV/electric loco nonsenseI doubt there was ever a serious beginning to that. They certainly don't want to have to use the overhead third rail in GCT again. |
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| (1125740) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 19 19:04:29 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 19 13:59:25 2011. or perhaps Request for proposal |
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| (1125771) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Mon Dec 19 19:58:07 2011, in response to LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Dec 19 10:38:44 2011. Translation: We're giving it to Bombardier for an M-7 variant. |
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| (1125773) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by PATHman on Mon Dec 19 20:01:13 2011, in response to LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Dec 19 10:38:44 2011. I'm not sure I understand why both agencies are ordering a different fleet. Can't they simply order more M7/A's and M8's? |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Dec 19 20:05:19 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Dec 19 18:10:50 2011. You don't gain as much seating as you'd think with a MLV. |
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| (1125777) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by PATHman on Mon Dec 19 20:06:12 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Dec 19 20:05:19 2011. Not true. Keep in mind the intangible known as the middle seat. They're essentially a waste of seats, but they're not present on MLV's. |
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| (1125779) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Dec 19 20:12:14 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 15:43:34 2011. All they need to do is look at NJT and say don't let this happen to you.The only thing about NJT that doesn't apply to is its adequate reverse peak schedule for most lines and its relatively younger fleet. |
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| (1125784) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 20:36:26 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by PATHman on Mon Dec 19 20:06:12 2011. No they are not a waste of a seat. They do get sat in. |
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| (1125786) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 20:38:26 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by PATHman on Mon Dec 19 20:01:13 2011. An M-9 is basically as M-7, like an M-3 was an M-1, and a M-2, 4, and 6 are basically the same car. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 19 20:44:16 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 18:47:47 2011. with two power cars there would not be need for overhead third rail.I make it in with one genesis every day in electric. |
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| (1125789) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 19 20:46:04 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 20:38:26 2011. Correct, the M-9 will be a M-7 with updated technology. |
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| (1125790) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Train2104 on Mon Dec 19 20:47:24 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 19 20:44:16 2011. Well, with LIRR, I remember reading somewhere that even the best engineer can't make it from NYP to WSY without the engine starting up on them, just the better the engineer the later it starts. |
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| (1125795) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 21:02:38 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Train2104 on Mon Dec 19 20:47:24 2011. Amtrak demands them to be top and tailed since they want an engineer on a shoe-equipped vehicle. Not an issue for Empire trains since they are not push-pull. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 22:25:35 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by nasadowsk on Mon Dec 19 19:58:07 2011. So we're not getting three doors per side, aluminum, 3.0mphs acceleration, 100 mph MAS, with capabilities for eventual catenary usage? :-) |
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| (1125816) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 22:29:26 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 18:46:14 2011. No they wouldn't. Unless you like longer dwell times?SNCF & RATP manage to move 55K riders per hour at peak on RER A with this. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:33:41 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 22:25:35 2011. Why do you need three doors per side? So you can have fewer revenue seats? |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:34:19 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 19 20:44:16 2011. Inbound? |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:36:38 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 22:29:26 2011. SNCF's days of draining the public coffers for unlimited train lengths and unlimited platform lengths are coming to an end. Very low seating capacity for two levels indeed. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:37:13 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by nasadowsk on Mon Dec 19 19:58:07 2011. BBD's rep is starting to get really tarnished. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by PATHman on Mon Dec 19 23:02:47 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 19 20:36:26 2011. Very rarely. Based on my experience, most people would rather stand than sit in a middle seat. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Dec 19 23:12:41 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 19 20:46:04 2011. What kind of updated technology? |
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| (1125832) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 23:31:46 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:33:41 2011. Why do you need three doors per side?Improved ingress and egress and reduced dwell times. So you can have fewer revenue seats? The main goal of a transit agency is to move people. Comfort is secondary to that goal, and given the desire to carry more people, if removing seats allows us to do a better job at moving more people, then it should be done. |
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| (1125837) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 23:46:36 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:36:38 2011. Very low seating capacity for two levels indeed.So you complain that the trains have very few seats, but having more seats would reduce the on-board capacity of the trains which would require either more cars, tracks, more lines, and/or more trains in order to deal with the levels of ridership, yet you complain that SNCF "drains the public coffers"? When an American agency moves what SNCF & RATP does on the RER A at 90 second headways, maybe their opinions will be valid, but until then, the French have far more experience on moving riders than we do. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 20 00:15:00 2011, in response to LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A "early stage" RFP information, posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Dec 19 10:38:44 2011. Yet another opportunity to adequately serve the east end of Long Island missed. Sure, they could have integrated reliable east end service with this rolling stock order to achieve economies of scale while achieving rolling stock changeover through attrition to implement a technology that is tried and true and has been used on the New Haven Line for the past century. But I'm sure the LIRR riders will be so much better with a tiny order for a few DMUs. After all, Trimet's experience with DMUs has been nothing but positive. No, wait, it's the complete opposite of that. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Dec 20 00:46:21 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 20 00:15:00 2011. Great post, I don't know why LIRR is so fixated with the idea that all of their electric territory has to be covered by third rail, but this order should put a halt to that mentality, even if it meant that the majority of their fleet still wouldn't be able to go into catenary territory. |
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| (1125846) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 20 01:10:59 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Dec 20 00:46:21 2011. I don't know why LIRR is so fixated with the idea that all of their electric territory has to be covered by third rail, but this order should put a halt to that mentality,Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. While other railroads using third rail are specifying their new EMUs be capable of being upgraded to a high voltage AC overhead power supply, other posts in this thread would indicate that the M9 will merely reinforce the LIRR's status quo. After decades of seeking the 'perfect' solution to serve the LIRR east end, ordering gas turbine EMUs and a host of unreliable diesel locomotives, they've barely achieved what they set out to do and are clearly content to declare their dual modes a complete success. even if it meant that the majority of their fleet still wouldn't be able to go into catenary territory. It's worth mentioning that the majority of the LIRR's fleet cannot venture into their diesel territory today, yet that hasn't stopped them from providing pathetic service. It also hasn't stopped them from seeking wildly expensive DMUs to accommodate the shrinking diesel network which will undoubtedly be abandoned at a certain point. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 20 06:42:53 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Dec 19 23:12:41 2011. We won't know until that becomes public! |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 20 06:43:53 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Dec 19 20:05:19 2011. Yes you do. We know exactly how much you gain. |
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| (1125898) | |
Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Dec 20 10:42:07 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 19 23:31:46 2011. On a subway or light rail train with a lot of passenger churn at multiple stations between the origin and destination of the train route, yes. On a commuter line where passengers get on at many stops, but get off at just one or two (or mostly on at one or two, but mostly off at many) no. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Dec 20 17:07:56 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Dec 19 23:12:41 2011. What kind of updated technology?Seat armrests that don't tear pants. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 20 17:36:26 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Dec 20 17:07:56 2011. The M-8's already have that. The armrests are curved so there's nothing to catch the clothing. your pal, Fred |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 17:57:32 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by PATHman on Mon Dec 19 23:02:47 2011. I commuted on the LIRR every day for 14 years. The middle seats get occupied. End of story. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 20 17:59:42 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 17:57:32 2011. They get occupied on NJT as well, despite propaganda to the contrary. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:03:06 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 20 17:59:42 2011. Propaganda was done to justify MLV's and perpetuate NJT's disdain for EMU's, from MMC's disdain from doing FRA cab inspections. Now they can spend their time doing brake inspections and derailment investigations. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 20 18:06:02 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:03:06 2011. Not just time; money as well.The MMC's shenanigans will catch up with them. The later, the worse. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:09:35 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Dec 20 10:42:07 2011. Some people here don't understand the concept of capacity.It is NOT how many seats you stuff in a railcar. It is thru-put of people per hour. It is hindered by slow acceleration, deceleration, poor ingress, egress, and NYPS station slot dwell time, which has come to define NJT. It is now common place for Trenton locals to take 100 minutes whereas it took Arrow III's 70 minutes 15 years ago. 3 additional stops does not explain it all. The inner doors on the MLV's should have been double width. That is horrid industrial design to keep them narrow where 2 stairways merge. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:10:31 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 19 22:37:13 2011. There is the CTA issue as well, not just cracking trucks, but stalls of 4 car trains at Tower 18. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:11:35 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 20 17:36:26 2011. Wonder if the M-9's will get all the refinements of the M-8's ? |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 19:57:59 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 20 18:06:02 2011. I have been waiting 25 years now with no end in sight. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Dec 20 20:06:36 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:11:35 2011. Wonder if the M-9's will get all the refinements of the M-8's ?Probably everthing except the red interior and solar power flush toilet ! Bill Newkirk |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 20:12:15 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Dec 20 20:06:36 2011. LIRR has a strong sentiment for uniformity right down to seat type and color. Or else both these spoiled brats (LIRR & MN) would make do with M-3's for another 15 years and maintain them, so that the TA can get their R179's and junk equipment from the 1960's, which has now been put off 5 times.If I had to look at all that red at 6am, I'd throw up my breakfast. They have taken this McGinnis-era thing too far. It would be like LIRR splashing orange all over the place. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Tue Dec 20 20:31:20 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 20 18:06:02 2011. NJT doesn't give a shit about how much money they waste as long as they get 'their' money next budget cycle. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by PATHman on Tue Dec 20 20:33:07 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 20 18:03:06 2011. How are the MLV's a waste? They always seem filled to capacity on the Northeast Corridor and NJ Coast Lines. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 20 22:51:03 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Dec 20 00:46:21 2011. One of the problems is that the non-electrified territory is not rated for the speed that would be required to attract more riders. The line from Ronkonkoma to Greenport has a MAS of 40 MPH IIRC. |
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Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 21 00:21:40 2011, in response to Re: LIRR & Metro-North on M-9/M-9A ''early stage'' RFP information, posted by nasadowsk on Tue Dec 20 20:31:20 2011. They can't last forever like that. Their "sacrifices" make no economic sense (most glaring example the weekend NJCL expresses, never mind not rebuilding the Comet IIIs and retiring the ALP-44s willy-nilly); they keep buying stuff that can't go everywhere on their network (MLVs can't go down to Bay Head); they even fly in the face of Einstein's attributed definition of madness with regard to resurrecting the former Amtrak Atlantic City Express. They're going to crash and burn. (What with Corzine embroiled in the whole MF Global mess, I wonder just how deep the NJT mess runs thanks to him.) |
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