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| Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach (702033) | |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 21:07:55 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 1 20:22:28 2010. The literal definition of the words aside, atheism (in its correct weak form, not the strong form that asserts that there is definitely no God) is indeed equivalent to agnosticism. It is indeed correct not garner belief in something for which there is no evidence. By that argument we are "agnostic" to a lot of things, like the Boogie Man, Fairies, and pink unicorns. I doubt most self-professed agnostics are undecided to about the existence or non-existence of these things.Agnosticism: There is not enough information to decide either way. There is plenty of information to make a decision about the existence of god, namely the complete lack of evidence of his existence, which leads one to the conclusion that he can be regarded to be nonexistent. In any case, theism is necessary. Our whole concept of marriage / family unit comes from it (otherwise men would simply fuck many women, and leave them to raise the children on their own, except for their 'favorite' - is that better than what we have now?). False. The Western concept of marriage and family is a culturally recent and unusual invention. It is typical of pre-Western societies to practice polygyny, which is quite different from the idea of family values we seem to hold dear. As well, all societies have developed an idea of the family unit. Our laws are based in it. False. This is an inaccuracy constantly repeated, mostly by the religious right about American laws. Who decides what is right and wrong? Society? But if you do not get caught society will never learn what you did, and you will not be looked down upon. At that point the line between right and wrong is completely arbitrary and decided on a personal basis. If people are free to move the line wherever you want, in a few generations it will disappear entirely. Quite to the contrary, as societies have moved away from religion they have moved towards a greater sense of morality and human welfare, and have moved away from the barbarism demanded by religious "morality," such as the stoning of women and homosexuals, the genocide of whole ethnic groups, and the enslavement of people. What your basically saying is that humans need religion for morality, which is patently untrue. Morality is not based on religion but instead based on the social contract, which basically states that in order to get the benefits of living in a social group one needs to adhere to certain rules. The development of morality and an innate moral sense was necessary for the evolution of a social species, and what allows humans to live harmoniously in a group. |
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Re: Burden of Proof (Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach) |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 21:31:33 2010, in response to Burden of Proof (Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach), posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Dec 1 20:21:21 2010. Of course you can prove things outside of mathematics. I can prove that the Earth orbits the Sun. I can prove that (non-salty) water freezes at 32 degrees. I can prove that fire is hot. But, hey, what if we are in the Matrix?Ridiculous, you would say? I would agree, but we cannot completely discount the possibility. Facts have a built-in level of uncertainty with them, and no matter how sure we are of something, we can never be absolutely sure that they are correct. But the more certain a fact is, the greater and greater stretches of the imagination we have to make to conceive that they are false. In science, we accept this level of uncertainty -- which is why we demand proof of something before we accept its reality and not give credence to propositions solely because they have not been disproved (especially if they are unfalsifiable, that is, cannot be in principle disproved -- like God). |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 23:09:24 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Dec 1 16:05:59 2010. With one exception, every city is in a state. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 23:18:22 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 21:07:55 2010. EXCELLENT POST!Marriage is effectively a contract where the woman agrees to provide sex to the man in exchange for help raising the resulting children. It would arise in a completely rational society without religious belief. The woman benefits because she gets children but doesn't have to raise them on her own. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 23:19:39 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 20:18:05 2010. So long as religious types insist on imposing their views on others, I will try to impose my views on them. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Dec 1 23:19:48 2010, in response to Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Nov 30 22:21:11 2010. NOT a great way to win people over. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 2 00:51:48 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 21:07:55 2010. There is plenty of information to make a decision about the existence of god, namely the complete lack of evidence of his existence, which leads one to the conclusion that he can be regarded to be nonexistentHe "can be regarded to be" instead of he "is". Why the ambiguity in language? False. The Western concept of marriage and family is a culturally recent and unusual invention That's a lie. And it's not a Western concept exclusively. This is an inaccuracy constantly repeated, mostly by the religious right about American laws Yet you have absolutely no proof of your claim, not to mention having to resorting to personal attacks against a small segment of US society. The US Constitution is rooted in the Ten Commandments. And there's the second POTUS' opinion on the matter: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.And he's continuously proven right on that matter. as societies have moved away from religion they have moved towards a greater sense of morality and human welfare, and have moved away from the barbarism demanded by religious "morality," such as the stoning of women and homosexuals, the genocide of whole ethnic groups, and the enslavement of people . . . with the USSR and People's Republic of China as shining examples of same. Ever read the Black Book of Communism? Stop citing fantasy as reality. Morality is not based on religion but instead based on the social contract, which basically states that in order to get the benefits of living in a social group one needs to adhere to certain rules You're arguing in circles. Not to mention displaying no knowledge of the "social contract" or the history of the concept. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 2 00:53:19 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 23:18:22 2010. Yeah, lies = "excellent post" to you. Never mind circular arguments and blanket statements.Marriage is effectively a contract where the woman agrees to provide sex to the man in exchange for help raising the resulting children Highly misogynistic viewpoint. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 05:24:30 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 23:09:24 2010. LOL |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 05:29:49 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 1 01:49:11 2010. Just like you and luch. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 05:36:13 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 13:38:07 2010. >>>>>I'm a physics major, son. <<<<You poor soul, luch's father. 8-) |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 2 06:07:51 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 16:00:42 2010. As well, crime rates are much higher in Red States, and atheists are vastly underrepresented in prisons...Oh, you mean like Georgia is a red state, but liberal Atlanta has a huge crime rate. Or Louisiana is a red state, but has liberal New Orleans in it with a high crime rate. You need more stats than just the "state". |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 2 06:09:01 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 23:09:24 2010. Yes, but many cities have different demographics, and crime rates that the other parts of the state. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 2 06:12:35 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Wed Dec 1 12:31:32 2010. Oh you mean like Islam never decries other religions or beliefs? Yes, "tolerant" Islam. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 2 06:14:36 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 1 12:58:05 2010. Hey Sues. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 06:37:02 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 1 16:41:02 2010. Caspar is a ghost. 8-) |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 2 08:59:13 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 14:12:30 2010. Those are the 3 Wiseguys and are Eye-talian, so fuggedaboudit.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 2 11:12:51 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 11:00:08 2010. The September 11th ad mentioned somewhere up thread would have been just as effective, perhaps even more effective in creating a national conversation. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 2 11:14:25 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 1 09:02:38 2010. Put them all in a subway car and have them do a preach-off. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 11:31:38 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 2 11:14:25 2010. All that space has been rented to these fantastic ads. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:33:20 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 2 11:12:51 2010. Brilliant response. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 2 11:35:16 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 11:31:38 2010. Didn't know you were into that sort of thing. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 2 11:36:47 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 2 11:12:51 2010. I agree.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Dec 2 11:37:53 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 2 00:51:48 2010. >>>>>There is plenty of information to make a decision about the existence of god, namely the complete lack of evidence of his existence, which leads one to the conclusion that he can be regarded to be nonexistentHe "can be regarded to be" instead of he "is". Why the ambiguity in language? God can be regarded to be nonexistent just like the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man can be regarded to be nonexistent. I cannot prove that any of these things do not exist. But, it's not up to me to prove that these things don't exist, it's up to those that claim that they do to prove that they in fact do. >>>> The Western concept of marriage and family is a culturally recent and unusual invention That's a lie. And it's not a Western concept exclusively. Certainly when one takes into account all the trimmings of Western marriage, such as sexual monogamy and the nuclear family, in addition to other factors such as the relative ease of divorce and being able to enter several in one's life time, then this is quite unique to Western society. That being said, all I said initially was that the Western idea of marriage is, from an anthropological stand point quite unusual, for the biggest reason being the absence of pologyny, among others. The US Constitution is rooted in the Ten Commandments. Quite false. For one, only two of the Ten Commandments are actual American laws. Two, the Founders went to great lengths to ensure a separation of religion and government. And there's the second POTUS' opinion on the matter: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. And here's the third's:
Among many other things that he and the other Founders have said against religion, Christianity in particular. >>>>>as societies have moved away from religion they have moved towards a greater sense of morality and human welfare, and have moved away from the barbarism demanded by religious "morality," such as the stoning of women and homosexuals, the genocide of whole ethnic groups, and the enslavement of people . . . with the USSR and People's Republic of China as shining examples of same. Ever read the Black Book of Communism? In the words of Bill Maher, communism is a state religion. As our friend Scrabbleship recently demonstrated, it's a set of dogmatic beliefs that are held to without scrutiny or support of the empirical evidence, and in fact in contradiction to what the evidence shows, just like religions such as Christianity, Mormonism, or Scientology. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Dec 2 11:39:14 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 05:36:13 2010. I know, tell me about it, man. I tried my best with him but then parents don't shape personality anyway, so I couldn't win... :D |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:41:17 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 11:31:38 2010. I don't like those ads. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:42:21 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by JayMan on Thu Dec 2 11:39:14 2010. Says the atheist who celebrates Christmas. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 11:43:45 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:41:17 2010. Wow, what a fucking surprise. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Dec 2 11:45:30 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 2 06:12:35 2010. Muslims surely do -- in fact all religions do. That is the hallmark of religion, each claims to have the irrevocable truth as told by God (or gods, gurus, spirits, or whatever) and are held inscrutable to facts.I certainly wasn't trying to defend Islam, and in fact I'll say it here: the teachings of Islam are bullshit, based on myths and the ramblings of one "prophet"/crazy conqueror (which always amazes me when Islam is supposedly "peaceful" when it was forged in war by a militaristic dictator). |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 11:52:41 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:41:17 2010. Why don't you like the I Love My Boo campaign, which is specifically meant to fight homophobia?BTW, the black model in these ads is Derrick Briggs, a good friend of mine who understands, better than most, the destructive effects of anti-gay bigotry. Would you object to this ad if it showed two hot lesbians kissing? |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Dec 2 11:57:19 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 11:52:41 2010. Hmm.I really do like these ads, though. I like them a lot, because in particularly in black (and I guess Latino) community, being in a long term, loving, committed relationship with a same sex partner really is considered "taboo" or even "unbelievable", even amongst "gay" people. At least, this is my experience. Additionally, positive gay minorities aren't represented well at all in the general scheme of things; makes it tough to have something to look up to. I hope they spread these to more cities like Philadelphia. We need this down here. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 2 11:57:51 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 2 11:14:25 2010. I'd like to see some Jell-O wrestling on the calendar :Pyour pal, Fred |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:59:36 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 11:52:41 2010. I just don't like the ad. No reason to see anyone of any sexual preference kissing, really. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 11:59:42 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Dec 2 11:57:19 2010. Write GMHC and tell them how you feel. E-mail me and I'll give yoyu the e-mail of the contact person there. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Dec 2 12:00:01 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:59:36 2010. That's fair. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:00:41 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:59:36 2010. So then you dislike the THOUSANDS of ads over the years showing straight couples kissing, too, right, Luch? |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:02:37 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:00:41 2010. Link? |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:05:51 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:02:37 2010. Link to what? The innumerable ads over the years, showing straight couples kissing? Straight couples have been depicted kissing in subway ads for everything from movies to toothpaste, and I'm sure I could find and photograph a few for you later on today... |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:13:37 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:05:51 2010. This argument reminds me of a television ad I saw a few weeks ago. I'll have to find it.It's about a woman who goes on vacation. Her boyfriend missed the flight, and she's on the beach or boat slip with another man. This ad promotes cuckoldry, promiscuity, feminization of men, and every other goal female lib movement. As for the gay black men kissing, I don't know why anyone would run this ad. I don't see the reason for it. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 12:16:04 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 11:52:41 2010. >>>>Would you object to this ad if it showed two hot lesbians kissing?<<<<Haha, every straight mans fantasy. The old double standard, in full effect. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:18:36 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:13:37 2010. The reason the I Love My Boo campaign ran, was to promote awareness of the LGBT community and fight homophobia, through an eye-catching depiction of two gay men loving each other, freely and openly, which is how they should be able to.The text in the ad does acknowledge that it's not safe for gay couples to express their love in certain areas, but that's the point--straight couples can express their affection without fear of reproisal, but gay couples can't. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 2 12:19:03 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 11:42:21 2010. You gonna have an Eggnog Shake?your pal, Fred |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Dec 2 12:20:21 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 1 14:13:07 2010. Shame. It uses a nice Greek root. |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 12:23:32 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:02:37 2010. 
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:25:24 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:18:36 2010. This will promote homophobia.Hey, Rush Limbaugh is in trouble again. He's calling Assange a "Sissy". |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 12:27:29 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:25:24 2010. >>>>This will promote homophobia.<<<<You do a fine job of that. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:29:43 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 2 12:19:03 2010. You gonna have an Eggnog Shake?They just came out yesterday at the location near me. Once again, I'm convinced that McDonald's won't dare sell Eggnog or Shamrock in NY Metro to avoid the inevitable complaints about religious and ethnic preferences. People keep track of shit like this, and McDonald's is the market leader in fast food. When I was in NY earlier this year, I spoke to the owner of the location at Myrtle and Wycoff and he said that he is not allowed to sell any seasonal promotional shakes. No one in the NYC boroughs or Long Island can. |
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Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 2 12:31:47 2010, in response to Re: Atheist Billboard At Lincoln Tunnel Approach, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:29:43 2010. Sux man, I like an Eggnog Shake while breathing NY air.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:36:39 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Dec 2 12:27:29 2010. He changed the subject, just like you said he does!!! |
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Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Dec 2 12:38:27 2010, in response to Re: Gay Ads On Subway Trains, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 2 12:36:39 2010. No I didn't. |
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