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| Re: New York is doomed - more proof (173358) | |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Dec 11 12:25:35 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by American Pig on Wed Dec 6 20:24:03 2006. However, the LA Angels of Anaheim name did result in a lawsuit that has not been resolved, specifically regading the fact that this is deceptive advertising. All of the other teams play in the city, or close enough as to not cause confusion.Link |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Dec 11 12:29:29 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by BMT Guy on Tue Dec 5 23:53:09 2006. However, a NASCAR track would have brought in something that NYC desperately needs: TAX DOLLARS (and the tax assessed could well have totaled over $400K/yr.)Similarly, NYC politicians claim how we need more money---yet they help stifle projects that will bring in more property tax dollars (this was a case in point). At least the France family learned the hard way---donate heavily to Silver and Bruno if you want your way. |
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| (2009712) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 18 13:57:22 2025, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. NY has been "doomed" for how many decades now? |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 18 15:18:04 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 18 13:57:22 2025. 40. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Jan 18 18:51:04 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 18 13:57:22 2025. Since WFH |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jan 18 19:20:13 2025, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. That's what happens when you kick Trump and everyone out. If not for him, a lot more would've never been built. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 18 19:47:50 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Jan 18 18:51:04 2025. Thanks for setting the record straight 🤠 |
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| (2009746) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 18 22:00:16 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 18 15:18:04 2025. Looking at my 2006 posting after all these years, here is how the issues I raised worked out.- While the NASCAR track never got built on Staten Island, the Amazon facilities now on the site employ far more people than a seldom-used racetrack ever would. While New York never got the prestige of NASCAR, that doesn't matter quite so much as NASCAR seems to have passed its peak as a cultural thing. So, I was wrong. - Yes, Ground Zero eventually got rebuilt, and I have to say the results are quite pleasing. That does NOT, however, take away from the fact that it took an excruciatingly long time. Now, one could argue that all the delays don't matter anymore, they're in the past and what we have today is what counts, but I'd say that's letting the city off too easy. - I'm not sure what I meant about the Fulton transit hub. It seems okay. - Still no Walmarts in the city. And it's doubtful there ever will be, because of the unions. - As for the Second Avenue Subway, well, that's beyond contempt. |
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| (2009755) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:28:43 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 18 22:00:16 2025. How quickly could ground zero have been rebuilt?Most people in NYC, if not all because not taking out a map and measuring, are within 15 miles of a Walmart which is about their standard for the US. |
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| (2009758) | |
Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:35:31 2025, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. LOL |
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| (2009760) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 19 01:38:21 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:35:31 2025. He used to claim he traveled on LIRR to/from whatever supposedly gainful employment he engaged in. How is it he formed such viewpoints that are the opposite of real life over all that time? |
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| (2009761) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:42:21 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 19 01:38:21 2025. His prognostications from the early days of this forum are indicative of his present posts.Peter Debbie downer |
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| (2009762) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 19 01:52:33 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:42:21 2025. The most annoying is characterizing valid concern over Islamic terrorism as unfounded fear of Islamic world conquest, which although it is the stated goal of that religion/ideology, the problem is not their success in that regard but the damage they will do along the way and the fact that they are not averse to nuclear terrorism if given the chance. The OP needs to recognize reality and not smugly pigeonhole the problem nor those that recognize it. |
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| (2009763) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:54:49 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 19 01:52:33 2025. 👍🏼 |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sun Jan 19 09:39:15 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 18 22:00:16 2025. I'm not sure what I meant about the Fulton transit hub. It seems okay.It's weird to be building something in Lower Manhattan that's shorter than Trinity Church in this day and age, but what do I know about the economics of giant glass eggs? |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 10:47:55 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:28:43 2025. How quickly could ground zero have been rebuilt?Six to seven years at most. One year to clear the site, two years to draw up the designs and get things organized, and three years for construction. Possibly allow for another year to deal with any delays that might arise. Reconstructing Ground Zero was not merely a large construction project but had immense symbolic value, being a means of showing that the city, and to some extent the country, could be hit hard but not defeated. By taking such an excruciatingly long time, unfortunately, all that symbolic value was lost. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 10:59:34 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 01:28:43 2025. Most people in NYC, if not all because not taking out a map and measuring, are within 15 miles of a Walmart which is about their standard for the US.Indeed, the rear property line of the Valley Stream Walmart is the Queens border. In practical terms, the city's lack of a Wally World is not of great consequence, the stores aren't really designed for high-density, transit-dependent cities, but is rather a disturbing commentary on the city's utter submission to the unions. |
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| (2009777) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 11:22:35 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 10:47:55 2025. Nah |
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| (2009778) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 11:23:17 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 10:59:34 2025. The unions? |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 11:28:58 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 10:59:34 2025. I am also impressed with your willingness to knockout the local bodegas and mom and pops around town with a massive corporate conglomerate like Walmart in the 5 boroughs.Take a bow you deserve it. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 19 13:27:13 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 18 22:00:16 2025. Still no Walmarts in the city. And it's doubtful there ever will be, because of the unions.Unions have no power in western Queens that they don't have in eastern Nassau. I am willing to admit that Walmart may not build in NYC because of NYC's tendency toward overregulation. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jan 19 13:38:48 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 10:47:55 2025. I would have re-built them as they were. But that was economically unrealistic. IIRC they were losing money as in tenant rent wasn't covering the mortgage. Thats one reason the Port Authority unloaded them. They were built to stimulate economic development in lower Manhattan. Once that happened, the Port Authority got out of the real estate business, but stayed in the railroad business with its take over of the H&M railroad aka PATH these days. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 13:40:30 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 19 13:27:13 2025. I am willing to admit that Walmart may not build in NYC because of NYC's tendency toward overregulation.That's entirely possible. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Sun Jan 19 16:32:26 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jan 19 13:38:48 2025. Jim, you New Yorkers have your problems, us Californians our here have ours. We're both tied to the wrists because we do have one thing in common--both states are led by a pack of losers, incompetents and just plain boobs. If we can clean up our human waste we can then be happy again with our lot as people in Texas, Florida, Ohio and Tennessee are. |
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| (2009806) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Sun Jan 19 16:40:20 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Sun Jan 19 16:32:26 2025. THAT MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES !!WHAT A PIECE OF WORK THE MAYOR OF PASADENA WAS GOOD |
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| (2009810) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 19 17:32:52 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Sun Jan 19 16:32:26 2025. As a Californian, perhaps you could tell us, what should politicians have done in advance to make the recent fires less destructive?Seriously asking here. |
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| (2009821) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 20:44:12 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jan 19 13:38:48 2025. I’m pretty sure I read that by 2001 the towers were at a very low vacancy rate. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 21:54:32 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 20:44:12 2025. I’m pretty sure I read that by 2001 the towers were at a very low vacancy rate.That's right. They were full enough that had the attacks happened even an hour later not everyone below the impact zones would have been able to get out in time, fortunately when the attacks actually occurred many people weren't in yet* and as a result almost everyone below those zones got out safely. And of course with a later attack there would have been more people in the upper floors from which escape was impossible. Chances are the death toll would have been at least a thousand more. * = Supposedly, some people who normally would have been at work hadn't arrived because they had stayed up late the previous night watching the Giants play on Monday Night Football. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 20 00:16:05 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 21:54:32 2025. Is the Monday night football theory something you read on your favorite website? |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 20 01:01:07 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 20 00:16:05 2025. No. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 20 01:29:04 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 20 01:01:07 2025. I was half wrong. That’s still a little silly. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 20 09:10:00 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 19 21:54:32 2025. They were full enough that had the attacks happened even an hour later not everyone below the impact zones would have been able to get out in timeLink? That is a serious accusation that the stairways were misdesigned. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Jan 20 12:28:35 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by AlM on Mon Jan 20 09:10:00 2025. Huh???? |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 20 14:47:41 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by AlM on Mon Jan 20 09:10:00 2025. They were full enough that had the attacks happened even an hour later not everyone below the impact zones would have been able to get out in timeLink? That is a serious accusation that the stairways were misdesigned. The History Channel did a comprehensive analysis. They estimated that up to 14,000 people would have died had the attacks occurred later in the day when the towers were fully occupied, given that a full evacuation would have taken four hours - far longer than they stood. As for design flaws, there were only three staircases in each tower (older building codes would have required four); they were clustered near the core of the buildings to maximize rentable space rather than dispersed near the corners; and were shielded with nothing more than drywall. All of these features were legal, and one could argue that they were sufficient to meet all anticipated threats; but they ultimately proved disastrous. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 20 15:15:53 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 20 14:47:41 2025. Thank you for the link. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Mon Jan 20 19:41:11 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Sun Jan 19 16:40:20 2025. You're right on the mark my friend. Pasadena's mayor, though limited to the power he had over only one city, was out there pitching and showing enough concern and sympathy for his constituents that I heard the man was being praised in my Arcadia, Temple City and Monrovia for his determination to try to get to the bottom of what went wrong for such a tragedy to happen. Pasadena should be proud, other most influential leaders in LA and Sacramento shouldn't be-----not at al. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Mon Jan 20 19:48:16 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 19 17:32:52 2025. How about not taking money from the fire department and diverted it to illegals who entered this country in violation of the law. Or how about not clear cutting brush and bush for the past few years as even Trump, out of office the past four years kept screaming for the state to do and was ignored by Gruesome and his ilk. Or maybe making sure the dam in the Palisades was restocked with water, or that the governor should have known dry hillsides were potential areas for severe fires. There is a lot of blame to go around and maybe Newsome and Bass and a host of local officials might learn a bitter lesson from the havoc and tragedy they caused to hard working Angelenos---Hispanic, Black, Asian, White and Native Americans. Thousands of people have had their lives turned upside down because of negligence. It could have been greatly avoided if some of what was suggested had been done. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Jan 20 19:58:19 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Mon Jan 20 19:48:16 2025. GOOD POSTLETS RAIL FAN SOON |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jan 20 20:48:01 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Mon Jan 20 19:48:16 2025. Great Post! |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 20 22:43:03 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by #4SeaBeachFred on Mon Jan 20 19:48:16 2025. 💥 |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 09:23:44 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 20 14:47:41 2025. Apparently in the design stage, nobody thought of the possibility of someone deliberately flying fully loaded commercial aircraft into them. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 21 10:04:07 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 09:23:44 2025. They did consider a 707 being lost in the fog and determined the buildings would be able to absorb the impact and remain standing. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 11:39:39 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 21 10:04:07 2025. True. But a 707 at a reduced speed v/s a 767 travelling at appx 3200 feet per second is no comparison. But regardless, the buildings did survive the initial impacts even though some of the surviving occupants said that after impact, the buildings swayed like a metronome.. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 21 11:59:45 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 11:39:39 2025. Of course. They’ve gone did the best they could with the information they had available at the time. Who could have dreamt such an evil thing would take place.And for those reasons it’s not a flaw at all. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Jan 21 12:27:26 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 21 11:59:45 2025. "Who could have dreamt such an evil thing would take place."It is unfortunate that the building was being built just as the world was learning about palesteinian terrorism. When new the world just learned at the level of mass murder, hijackings, and even olympic massacres. It would've been easier to change the strength of the structure back then, as "islamophobia" was not yet invented until the following millenium. |
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| (2010001) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 12:31:28 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 21 11:59:45 2025. "And for those reasons it’s not a flaw at all."Never said or meant to imply that it was. That form of terrorism at the time was unstoppable |
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| (2010002) | |
Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 12:37:06 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Jan 21 12:27:26 2025. Structure strength had nothing to do with the collapse. The were strong enough to take the hit of those speeding planes and not collapse there and then in the first place. It was the heat from the burning jet fuel and office furniture that weakened the structural integrity of the supporting steel that lead to its failure and collapse. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jan 21 14:56:46 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 12:37:06 2025. Agree |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 21 17:46:31 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jan 21 12:37:06 2025. Structure strength had nothing to do with the collapse. The were strong enough to take the hit of those speeding planes and not collapse there and then in the first place. It was the heat from the burning jet fuel and office furniture that weakened the structural integrity of the supporting steel that lead to its failure and collapse.It seems to be the conventional wisdom that absolutely no one thought the towers might collapse, until they did. Certainly none of the FDNY leaders on the scene predicted a collapse. Yet a decade earlier the Philadelphia fire chief ordered all firefighters out of the burning 38-story One Meridian Plaza because of real fears that the tower would collapse (as things turned out, it didn't). And that was just an ordinary fire, there was no plane impact. Somehow that lesson was lost in the ensuing decade. In addition, a few minutes before the South Tower fell the news broadcast on Britain's Sky TV had a structural engineer on the line who said that a collapse was imminent. |
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Re: New York is doomed—more proff |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jan 21 20:10:54 2025, in response to Re: New York is doomed—more proff, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 21 17:46:31 2025. After the 1993 attack, I saw the huge crater the explosion made, and I saw how the building was just fine. In 2001 I thought there was no way it would collapse and I'm glad that I wasn't already in the buildings when the first collapse happened |
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