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| Hertz Withdraws its EVs (1976411) | |
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Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024 Herts rental car has withdrawn all its EVs and replaced them with ICE cars due to the high maintenance costs of the EVs. Check your favorite source for more details. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 12 10:55:07 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. A good move. Several news repirts the have pointed out;1) issues driving an EV from chicago to NY and time taken to make the trip. 2) you can't drive an EV the entire length of Rt. 66 because of lack of recharging facilities 3) consumer reports on poor resale value of EVs after 5 years. Biden = wrong |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Jan 12 11:13:01 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. It's not all its 1/3rd of the fleet or 20K that they will sell. There is no way they can take the financial hit by getting rid of all at once.https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/11/hertz-sell-evs-tesla-fleet-gm-polestar-gas/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/business/2792096/hertz-sell-20000-electric-vehicles-replace-gas-vehicles/ Paywall https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/business/hertz-electric-vehicles-tesla.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/business/hertz-tesla-selling/index.html https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/11/hertz-sell-evs-tesla-fleet-gm-polestar-gas/ |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Jan 12 11:43:30 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. They got cars that run on ice? Are they steam engines? |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 12:11:01 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Jan 12 11:13:01 2024. 20K cars is still a lot of cars. Good luck selling them, all well knowing that they are up for sale due to high maintenance costs. Thats the last thing anyone would want to hear when in the market for a used car. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 12:22:47 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. They bought Teslas. It's not the EV part of Teslas that has the high maintenance. It's the rest of the car that's mediocre. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 12:23:24 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. REPAIR costs, not maintenance costs. There’s a difference. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 12:28:39 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 12:22:47 2024. Yes. That and they kept lowering the prices. Works for me because I leased and they don’t allow lease buyouts, but it means that it isn’t a status symbol anymore and I don’t want a Model S. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Fri Jan 12 12:28:54 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Jan 12 11:43:30 2024. 
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jan 12 12:41:35 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 12 10:55:07 2024. I can do all of those in a Tesla, and save time. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jan 12 12:42:22 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 12:22:47 2024. You're right, they bought Polestars and Kia's. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Jan 12 12:42:50 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. Yeah, all of the gaskets, oil changes, etc are very difficult to do on an EV. I've tried and gave up. Took me hours to figure out. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jan 12 17:19:22 2024, in response to Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 10:48:02 2024. The "metric system" of the 20s |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 17:40:10 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jan 12 17:19:22 2024. No. ICE is going to die. Live with it. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 18:44:11 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 17:40:10 2024. We will die long before ICE cars do. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 18:45:45 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 12:23:24 2024. Both still come out of pocket. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 19:16:14 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 18:44:11 2024. I won’t. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 19:18:02 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 18:45:45 2024. No they don’t. Repair costs might come out of insurance. They’re also generally unexpected. Maintenance costs are ongoing and known. A lot of money is saved by never having to change the oil and do other things that ICE cars need for their overly complicated and inefficient design. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 19:46:03 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 19:18:02 2024. How much is the insurance going in?? Repair costs are not covered by insurance. Only the usual situations that any car is covered depending on what your limits are. Oil changes ever 4-5K miles are usually under $100."...overly complicated and inefficient design." Nonsense. Are you saying that EV cars are less complicated to maintain thanks to not needing oil changes? I have 130K on my 2016 Subaru Forrester & have kept up with routine maintenance & it runs like a top. I'm probably going to need a new battery soon. A Diehard might set me back $200. Lets see how much a new battery will set EV owners back after 7 years and 130K miles on it. Probably more than $200 as a guess. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jan 12 19:54:46 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 17:40:10 2024. EVs are here, as is the metric system. Doesn't mean WE use it. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 20:10:52 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jan 12 19:54:46 2024. Most of US manufacturing uses the metric system. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jan 12 20:43:11 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 20:10:52 2024. You know what I mean. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 21:00:08 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 19:46:03 2024. Yes, EVs are less complicated, which is why dealers hate them. Repairs mean things that just happen, like that time the transmission failed on a Lexus my dad had. When I was getting the state inspection last time, talked to a guy who had a Tesla for literally weeks until it got in a minor fender bender and was totaled due to debris hitting the HV battery. That's the kind of repair that is more expensive on an EV, the rare kind, but if you have a whole fleet, the law of large numbers kicks in.Simplicity: No engine, no transmission, no catalytic converter, no exhaust system, no driveshaft. I had my 12 V battery replaced recently. Tesla did it for free, but if I bought my own I found them for around $200 on the internet. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 21:00:55 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 20:10:52 2024. So does the liquor industry. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 22:52:47 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 21:00:08 2024. So for all that simplicity, I have to deal with:!) limited driving range 2) lack of charging infrastructure, especially in remote areas 3) high up front costs 4) high insurance costs 5) limited model availibility 6) negitive enviornmental impact a/c battery production involves strip mining and machinery emissions Bottomm line here is EVs are not ready for prime time. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 12 22:55:22 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 21:00:08 2024. You left out a bunch of things. Radiators water pumps spark plugs air filters… |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 12 22:58:05 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 12 20:10:52 2024. Working on the old VW was so easy because of the metric system. I problem still remember what socket to use for whatever nut there is on that car. The old Volvo used standard and I always had to convert in my head what socket to use |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 13 01:17:33 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 22:52:47 2024. Don't forget about 7) high risk of thermal runaway with battery fire. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Charles G on Sat Jan 13 04:48:41 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 12 12:28:39 2024. Have you leased an EV recently?My understanding is that used EVs are not fetching much in the market. The monthly lease cost for a lease is based on the difference between the new car price and what the dealer expects the car to be worth when it is returned (the residual value) With residual values falling, the monthly charge on a new lease should be increasing. And the leasing companies must be taking a beating on the cars that are returned. But I haven't looked closely to see if that is actually happening |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 06:57:18 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 22:52:47 2024. I agree EVs aren't for everyone yet. I wouldn't rent one at the moment.But your citing of (6) means you're really swallowing the propaganda. Compare lithium extraction (which needs to be done better, I agree) with the environmental damage of oil drilling, PLUS the environmental damage of global warming. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 13 06:59:42 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 22:52:47 2024. You're missing the big point. An internal combustion vehicle is a reasonably cost effective and convenient means of transportation. The EV is a costly & inefficient symbol of the climate change religion. No matter how much logic and how much fact and how much common sense you bring to the table, the symbol of the faith overpowers the clumate believers. |
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Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 13 07:07:32 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 06:57:18 2024. I'm just wondering now far your anti-petroleum beliefs will go. Will you give up the nylon carpet on your floor or the vinyl floor in your kitchen? Will you give up all the plastics in your daily life? Are you ready to go without most medications or pain killers? How about heat in the winter or gasoline? Nah, you are just another phoney liberal who tosses a buck on the collection plate and says he did his part. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 09:41:57 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jan 12 20:43:11 2024. Yes, but what you mean is an unimportant factlet.Similarly, in 2065, there will still be lots of instances of hydrocarbons being burned. Just not lots on a percentage basis. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 10:59:23 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 22:52:47 2024. 1. I don’t drive more than 200 miles a day except in very rare circumstances. I don’t base my day to day life on “but sometimes.”2. Not true anymore, but only for Tesla. 3. Also not true anymore. Teslas are now cheap. 4. This is a function of the cost of the car. It’s not more expensive to ensure an EV by itself. 5. ????? 6. You’re talking about negative environmental impact while touting a car that literally spews its environmental waste into the air you breathe every time you use it? |
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Re: Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:04:43 2024, in response to Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 13 07:07:32 2024. Hydrocarbons are fine when they aren’t burned.Heat can be electric. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:25:34 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 12 22:55:22 2024. They still have air filters. But I did miss radiators and spark plugs. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:29:54 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Charles G on Sat Jan 13 04:48:41 2024. I leased in 2020. I have no intention of leasing again and want to buy. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 11:44:12 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 10:59:23 2024. One thing I would add that applies to my not wanting to rent an EV is that I don't want to invest the time to secure a reliable app that tells me exactly where all the charging stations that I can use are, and how fast they are.My internet searches on the topic (just for curiosity) have not been 100% helpful when describing charging speed and which kinds of cars are served by a given charging station. Also, when I'm renting a car is exactly when I don't want to spend a lot of time filling a car up on its fuel. Also, I just googled Tesla supercharger map. Outside of very major highways, the whole of the mountain states have very few supercharger stations. All of this will greatly improve year by year, of course. |
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Re: Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 13 11:48:11 2024, in response to Re: Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:04:43 2024. AlM said petroleum drilling or production. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:56:08 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 11:44:12 2024. Tesla has the charging stations built into the car GPS.So again, basically Tesla is the only option whether you like it or not. |
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Re: Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 12:21:10 2024, in response to Re: Phoney Climate Change Worshiper Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:04:43 2024. Hydrocarbons are fine when they aren’t burned.Exactly. And the environmental issues related to extraction of oil remain as important to address as the environmental issues related to the extraction of lithium, as well as future battery materials such as vanadium and sulfur (and also uranium for nuclear power). And electric heat via heat pump, as opposed to resistance heating, uses considerably less energy than burning fossil fuels. Retrofitting heat pumps into existing large apartment buildings is turning out to be extremely expensive because it is very labor-intensive. The date when Con Edison can shut off the gas is likely to be very far in the future. But for new construction and for private houses heat pumps are competitive with burning fossil fuels. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 12:22:22 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 11:25:34 2024. What is the purpose of an air filter in an EV? |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 12:34:05 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 12:22:22 2024. The air conditioner. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 13 13:17:00 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 12:34:05 2024. A cabin filter not an air filter for the fuel system. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 13 13:17:24 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 13 13:17:00 2024. Thanks. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 13:49:50 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 13 13:17:00 2024. Right, that makes sense.Come to think of it, I don't recall ever changing, or paying to change, the air filter for my car's AC/heater system. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 13 13:51:31 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 11:44:12 2024. So now Hertz is stuck with 20K of these lemons. Good luck trying to sell them. The'll no doubt go to an auction house (like all other trade-ins, lease returns, repos, etc) and be bid on by used car dealerships.To move those EVs, they'll have to sell them at a substantial loss or promise them the world warrantees. Since most rental/leased cars are not cared for well, to say the least, I cant see a big demand for used EVs that were once rentals. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 13 13:53:33 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 13:49:50 2024. You’d be amazed what will come out |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 13 13:58:28 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 12 22:55:22 2024. Today's cars, including hybrids, the coolant is good for 120K before needing changing. Spark plugs and serpentine belts are good for 80K miles before recommended changing. Water pumps are designed to last the life of the car. |
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Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 13 14:17:34 2024, in response to Re: Hertz Withdraws its EVs, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 13 13:53:33 2024. Not at all. I know what comes out of my indoor air filter.Now I'm just wondering if the dirt ever got cleared out in any of my cars. |
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