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| Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities (1190820) | |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 16:30:45 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 12:16:55 2014. Just boycott food, medical, energy, consumer goods and entertainment and they will make no money. That will teach them. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 17:01:03 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 16:22:27 2014. You have low standards.Try raising the basket more than two feet above the ground before announcing slam dunks. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 17:01:06 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 16:19:55 2014. You're living on free money from the government. You can call it a "pension" if it makes you feel better, but government handouts are government handouts.If you weren't so anti-union, I wouldn't make fun of you for it. I feel that taking the piss out of hypocrites is a public service. Feel free to eliminate your hypocrisy by (a) relinquishing your "pension" or (b) supporting the union that gave it to you. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 17:01:12 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 15:27:40 2014. You take every opportunity to grouse about me, but you're too scared of me to actually respond to any of my posts directly.So yeah, you take me seriously alright. That you feel the need to specifically deny that you take me seriously just confirms that you do. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by train dude on Wed Jun 4 18:30:03 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 17:01:06 2014. Unlike welfare social security and pensions are earned. Earned might not be a concept that you can readily understand as is the case with most little socialist shits |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 18:46:34 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by train dude on Wed Jun 4 18:30:03 2014. Your pension was earned by the labour unions who fought and died for the right to collectively bargain. You were the one lucky shit who got a union job and then declared that you were entitled to that pension while declaring that people who work much harder than you simply aren't meant to support themselves.So yeah. Feel free to enjoy your retirement, smugly declaring that you "earned" your government handout while mocking all of us who actually work for a living. After all, their jobs were "never intended" to support them. Although it's definitely hypocritical of you to whine about how I'm a "socialist" while you're living on welfare yourself. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 18:58:41 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 18:46:34 2014. He's also forgetting he "earned" that Social Seciurity as well. What he gets is tied to what his contributions(matched by the employer) were. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:03:32 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 17:01:06 2014. You're living on free money from the government.Uhh... no. A pension is part of the compensation package, *not* a government handout. Part of the whole "public sector job pays less than private sector equivalent" deal. I don't know the specifics of the MTA but usually there is some formula which directly correlates to how long you worked and how much you made. Would you say the pensions GM workers, etc. have are "corporate handouts?" |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 19:15:31 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:03:32 2014. Exactly. Earned is earned. It's not a "handout". It's an agreed compensation for work. Unless he feels that government jobs are "handouts" in and of themselves. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 4 19:26:03 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:03:32 2014. "Uhh... no. A pension is part of the compensation package, *not* a government handout. "I would argue that the pension itself is not a handout, but I am rather perturbed about the exemption for state income taxes that is given to public employees in New York State, while those receiving private pensions or making use of their 401k/IRA or equivalent accounts only receive the exclusion for the first $20k of income. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:34:04 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 4 19:26:03 2014. People at retirement age already flee for warmer climates. Add in the incentive of cheaper (or no) taxes elsewhere, and we'll be bleeding NY taxpayer money to other states.I do agree that the low 20k exclusion should be changed to something much higher. While the loss of a private sector retiree is less clear-cut, they generally will be bringing money in from out of state (or possibly even out of the country). |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 19:35:04 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:03:32 2014. pwn3d. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 19:39:10 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 17:01:06 2014. LOL! You're looking for someone to curbstomp you, aintcha.So are you saying that the subway system should never have been taken over by the city? Yes or no? And it was illegal to force the private subway companies to not raise the fare? Yes or no? (And no, I won't "define" liberal and conservative for you since it's already defined.) |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 20:08:49 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 19:15:31 2014. That these pensions wee negotiated by unions is still flying right past him. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 20:16:46 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 18:58:41 2014. But he has. The original intent was you pay in.....you get back. Not the govt robbing it for every program they desire. Pension is part of earnings. Different scenario. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 20:39:29 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 20:16:46 2014. Last I looked, duing the Clinton admiistration, a surplus was achieved, and the fund would pay out in full to all babyboomers. Now? LOL! Thanks, redboys! |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 4 20:43:31 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:34:04 2014. "Add in the incentive of cheaper (or no) taxes elsewhere, and we'll be bleeding NY taxpayer money to other states."And now you see why I'm not fond of federalism. :-) "I do agree that the low 20k exclusion should be changed to something much highere. " Given the increase in senior citizens in our society, either senior citizens will pay more in taxes or other younger people will simply pay more to make up for the exemptions. I don't mind indexing the exclusion to inflation, but I wouldn't want an overly generous exemption to avoid burdening the young. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:11:42 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:02:59 2014. Except that one of the biggest expenses for a poor person is housing, which has particularly low labor requirements. A general increase in the price of labor will not proportionally increase the price of housing. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by DanD124 on Wed Jun 4 21:13:51 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:11:42 2014. wouldn't the fact that every other poor person also has more money cause the cost of housing to raise? |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:28:31 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:47:18 2014. You might want to mention that to Romney and friends sometime ... |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:30:11 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:00:59 2014. Why would their wages go down as a result? If anything they'd go up too in order to buy that pizza or burger. Don't you remember that famous republican war cry of "lifts ALL boats?" |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:31:27 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 12:14:44 2014. Why? Did the workers who make petroleum and put it in the ground get a raise? :) |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:37:52 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:00:59 2014. No, they won't.First, the cost of things isn't usually 100% for labor. The full cost of that Big Mac isn't just the people working at that McDonald's, but there are capital inputs as well. Second, as I've pointed out many times, the price of goods is NOT based on their cost, it is based on the demand for those goods. If it cost me 25¢ to make a widget, but I could sell my entire supply of widgets for $100, I would do that and make a profit of $99.75 per widget. If the cost of making those widgets went up, they'd still be priced at $100. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:40:55 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by DanD124 on Wed Jun 4 21:13:51 2014. Sure it would, but it'd be lower in proportion to their own ability to pay it. One of the things that drove me out of the city was that even though I was working in radio when I left, my rent in the Bronx was getting to be very close to half my monthly wages. Didn't leave much for anything else. When I left the city and moved upstate, that rent came down to about 10% of my monthly wages ... |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:41:59 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 09:27:41 2014. Precisely ... unless the rentiers decide to double up on that and that's what they've been doing all along which is why those wages haven't been keeping up to the increased productivity. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 21:42:02 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:30:11 2014. Where did I say they would go down? Theirs would go up to bit everyone can only buy the same thing as everything goes up and no one is any better than before. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:45:09 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 21:42:02 2014. Actually, we're all better off by curtailing (economic) rent. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:46:06 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by DanD124 on Wed Jun 4 21:13:51 2014. This would be mitigated by the fact that there would be less (economic) rent. i.e. less ostentatious ultra-luxury housing. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 21:49:50 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:46:28 2014. Then their employers can go flip burgers and pay penance for their sins. :) |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 22:05:46 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:37:52 2014. What a supreme profiteer. I would't expect any variety of sympathy in your absorbing the added cost, either. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 22:08:03 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 21:42:02 2014. You DID say "downgraded" ... whoopsie on my part there. Reality is that wages across the board have been stagnant for quite a while now and yet prices continued to go up while the top 1% pocketed the entire difference. Time for EVERYBODY to get a raise, OR ... back that productivity off until it matches the wages since we keep hearing that wages are tied to productivity, and that's been through the roof lately. Wage earners have been getting ripped off for a while now. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 22:13:25 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 22:05:46 2014. That's not profiteering. That's how the world actually works. And right-wingers believe that regulation is counterproductive.Although full disclosure: I support what some people call "profiteering." |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jun 5 03:25:30 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 21:37:52 2014. If the cost of making those widgets went up, they'd still be priced at $100.But it's also important to note that if the cost went above $100, you'd raise the price and sell fewer of them. And in fact, even if the cost came anywhere near $100, you'd probably raise the price an sell fewer of them. And furthermore, if you could really make them for $.25 and sell them for $100, pretty soon you'd have competitors selling them for $50, and eventually the price would drop to $.25 (assuming the $.25 includes your return on investment) if there weren't any significant barriers to market entry. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 5 03:32:12 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 5 03:25:30 2014. Welcome to modern reality - the BIG thing now is to make it impossible for competitors to enter the market by abusing patent and copyright law. :( |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Jun 5 05:37:36 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jun 4 19:03:32 2014. Would you say the pensions GM workers, etc. have are "corporate handouts?"Only if they were opposed to the union that earned that pension for them. See, this is what Train Dude & Company don't understand— I'm mocking his hypocrisy in hating unions while reaping the benefits thereof. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Jun 5 05:37:38 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 19:35:04 2014. Fail. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Jun 5 05:37:57 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 19:39:10 2014. LOL! You're looking for someone to curbstomp you, aintcha.Dude, you've been curbstomped so many times that concrete and asphalt are your new favourite foods. And yet, you keep coming back for more. So are you saying that the subway system should never have been taken over by the city? Yes or no? Invalid question. The subway system was built by the city; they could hardly "take over" something they created themselves. And it was illegal to force the private subway companies to not raise the fare? Yes or no? Another invalid question. Nobody "forced" the private companies to do anything. (And no, I won't "define" liberal and conservative for you since it's already defined.) Well, you defined "right-wing" here. Your definition was incoherent, but whatever. Let's roll with it. You hate anything associated with what you perceive as "the left" so presumably you're on the right. Do you favour a feudal system where most political power is wielded by a hereditary monarch but some influence is held by a small class of hereditary aristocrats? Do you support the creation of an official state religion? I'm happy to add these to the list of "Questions Olog Failed To Answer" if you insist on dodging. In the meantime, go ahead and define "liberal" for me. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 5 05:58:58 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:00:59 2014. The only people who feel their salary is downgraded by min wage being raised are those who believe in a caste system, where those kinds of skills are unimportant compared to the great importance of one's own skills. The rest of us realize that a) wages rising doesn't mean everything automatically goes up dramatically and b) it's a good thing to see people have more buying power.your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 5 06:21:30 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 22:08:03 2014. Yeah....downgraded doesn't mean reduced. |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 5 06:24:26 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 5 05:58:58 2014. But they won't see more buying power. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Jun 5 06:29:22 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 5 06:24:26 2014. Yes they would. |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 5 06:37:48 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 5 06:24:26 2014. Prove it.your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 5 09:22:45 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 4 22:13:25 2014. It is an absurd return. Such is not necessary for a business to survive and thrive. It's also the reason why there is such high public support for onerous corporate tax rates. If businesses whine about the US corporate tax rates being so high, they ought to realize their models are ripping the consumer off, and the consumer KNOWS this.The most popular tax ever passed was the windfall profits tax of the 1970s. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 09:49:03 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 5 06:37:48 2014. Just one example:http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-25/when-minimum-wage-goes-up-the-menu-price-also-rises |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Jun 5 09:55:33 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 09:49:03 2014. Oh well.....that means the 1% will have to pay MORE for their food....THIW. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 10:00:01 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Jun 5 09:55:33 2014. Yeah, I am sure they use all those low end fast food places all the time..... |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Jun 5 10:03:59 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 10:00:01 2014. I highly doubt that at all......they wouldn't DARE do so a thing. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 10:04:54 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Jun 5 09:55:33 2014. Since when to "1%ers" eat at the same restaurants as average people? Only rich people go to restaurants? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 10:05:41 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Jun 5 10:03:59 2014. Wherever they go. There or not. But you are saying only 1%ers go to restaurants? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Thu Jun 5 10:07:26 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 5 10:05:41 2014. Seems like only the 1%ers can AFFORD to go out, and the rest will have to stay home and do without. |
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