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Final contact from MH370 came after systems shutdown |
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Posted by DAnD124 on Mon Mar 17 00:01:43 2014, in response to Malaysian Airlines Says Plane With 239 Is Missing, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 20:58:11 2014. http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/malaysianairlinemystery2014/all-right-good-night-haunting-final-contact-from-missing-mh370-uttered-after-disabling-of-tracking-systems-started/article1-1196329.aspx |
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Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by DAnD124 on Mon Mar 17 00:08:13 2014, in response to Malaysian Airlines Says Plane With 239 Is Missing, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 20:58:11 2014. http://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-el-al-expert-iran-likely-involved-in-mh-370/ |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014, in response to Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by DAnD124 on Mon Mar 17 00:08:13 2014. Crazy and frightening scenario: Iran has the plane, and either killed or locked up all the passengers and crew. They remove all the seats, and, having secretly built, stolen, or purchased a working nuclear bomb, place it on the aircraft, fuel it up, and fly it off to some nearby target, like an Israeli city.Highly unlikely, but dreaming up sick shit like that is what we writers do... |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Mar 17 01:41:14 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014. Coast To Coast had a similar scenario with Iran. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 17 02:07:21 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014. Heh. No way it could make it there. Kazakhstan perhaps, but even that's a long shot. Nice to see all the wingnuts on the rampage ... :-\ |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Mar 17 04:29:21 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014. The sad thing is...these things are possible. No one wojld have believed the 20 hijacker 911 story and carry out before it happened either.That said....Iran wouldn't need this plane....if that was their plan....they could have used a plane already just in their country....no need for all this. |
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Re: Final contact from MH370 came after systems shutdown |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Mar 17 06:20:48 2014, in response to Final contact from MH370 came after systems shutdown, posted by DAnD124 on Mon Mar 17 00:01:43 2014. An experienced pilot, Zaharie has been described by current and former co-workers as a flying enthusiast who spent his days off operating a life-sized flight simulator he had set up at home.I see their reporters are as ignorant as ours when it comes to aviation writing. You can see in the pictures that the captain was running Microsoft Flight Simulator with a three monitor setup. |
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Re: Final contact from MH370 came after systems shutdown |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Mar 17 06:23:44 2014, in response to Re: Final contact from MH370 came after systems shutdown, posted by Dave on Mon Mar 17 06:20:48 2014. I meant four monitors. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 08:39:12 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 17 02:07:21 2014. Also, the FBI has been investigating the passengers for over a week. No sign any of them has nefarious connections.Also, there's never been a successful passenger hijacking since 9/11, because of the fortified cockpit door and increased passenger awareness. Finally, has there been a silent hijacking ever, where the pilot wasn't able to get off a distress call? |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 11:17:57 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014. Pretty unlikely. Iran Air owns 9 747's. If the Iranian government wanted to take a passenger airplane and convert it for nefarious use, it seems like a lot of trouble to steal one from halfway around the world when you could just confiscate one from your national airline and avoid putting potential targets on heightened alert. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 17 11:21:48 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 11:17:57 2014. Exactly. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 11:22:34 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 11:17:57 2014. Well, conceivably it could be a renegade piece of the Republican Guard that did it without any official sanction.But then there are all the other absurdities of this being a successful hijacking of the plane back to Iran by Iranians. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Mar 17 11:51:12 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 08:39:12 2014. "Also, there's never been a successful passenger hijacking since 9/11, because of the fortified cockpit door and increased passenger awareness."I read somewhere that several countries are lax about cockpit security and keep their cockpit doors unlocked. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 12:07:07 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Mar 17 11:51:12 2014. Yes, that could have happened here. But then there are still the other two factors that work against it being a hijacking. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 17 13:45:51 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 11:17:57 2014. Didn't stop them on 9/11. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 17 13:46:56 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Mar 17 04:29:21 2014. Sending one from Iran would put everyone on alert. Never mind the fuel factor. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 17 13:56:29 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 17 13:45:51 2014. Yes, but that was a different kind of attack, needing planes already in the area.I am not saying this couldn't be possible, just not the scenario given, as they could have used a plane they already have than shipping this one to Iran. That said, until it's found, speculation can happen, and nothing can be ruled out. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 17 14:01:06 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 12:07:07 2014. You already made your mind up that this wasn't a terrorist thing. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 14:27:38 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 17 14:01:06 2014. I wouldn't say made up my mind. Just far less likely than pilot suicide, which in itself is incredibly unlikely.A pilot suicide has happened before; if this is one, it's just done more cleverly than the previous ones. A hijacking of this sort has never been done before. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 17 14:30:50 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 08:39:12 2014. Definitely going to be an interesting one once they figure out what REALLY happened. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 14:38:44 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 17 14:30:50 2014. If they do. What if this is all the news we ever get other than "Well, it doesn't look like they took the northern route because we would have seen something more by now."The Indian Ocean is big. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 14:49:22 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 17 14:30:50 2014. If the plane has indeed crashed into the Indian Ocean, we are likely to never know what happened -- even if the plane is found.The cockpit voice recorders tape over themselves every 2 hours. If the plane kept flying for 5-7 hours after abruptly changing course, whatever commotion happened in the cockpit to allow that to occur will have been deleted. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 17 15:11:24 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 17 13:45:51 2014. Didn't stop them [Iran] on 9/11.Iran had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Those, who did, lacked aircraft. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 15:15:03 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 14:49:22 2014. If the plane is found in the Indian Ocean, there could still be some hints of what happened.The black box might say "This plane is on autopilot with heading 10 degrees west of south" or something like that. Autopsies might be able to show if people died of impact or hypoxia. Oxygen cannisters might be full or empty. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 17 15:25:27 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 14:38:44 2014. And they well could have. India isn't really looking hard in that direction with what radar they have. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 15:26:37 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 17 15:15:03 2014. You might get something off the flight data recorder, but in terms of exactly what happened and who did what (pilot, co-pilot, both, neither) is wiped away from history. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Mar 17 16:43:46 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014. In addition to Charles' comments about using existing 747s, they could just buy a 777. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Charles G on Mon Mar 17 18:06:41 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by WillD on Mon Mar 17 16:43:46 2014. For Sale - $52,000,000, 52300 TT; 290 Seats; Well maintained..hard to find Boeing 777-200ER;Interesting choice of words... |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 17 18:52:53 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 01:25:03 2014. Huh? Iran already has plenty of its own planes if they wanted to do this. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Mar 17 20:13:23 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 17 18:52:53 2014. But why use one of their own assets? The political and emotional impact of successfully hijacking someone else's jet, and turning into a weapon of mass destruction, is so much greater, than using their own plane to do it. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:10:03 2014, in response to Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by DAnD124 on Mon Mar 17 00:08:13 2014. I'm gonna toss this one in here because an article in the NYTimes raised an interesting possibility to my mind:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html Mentioned in the article is that the FMS ("Flight Management System") computer can not only be operated by the pilots in the keyboard, but also REMOTELY to set waypoint instructions by the airline. I'm going to guess that this can be done over a communication link and therefore my own mind is wondering if it isn't possible (given this) that the plane conceivably could have been hacked. Iran, North Korea, China, Syria and a number of other nations have digital warriors FAR more competent than ours and thus I'm wondering if this might be a possibility. Since we have some pilots here, I'm wondering if the FMS could also be hooked up to other COMM systems and possibly a mass pwnage of the plane could have left the pilots unable to do anything if the system locked out their keyboard and prevented dropping out the auto pilot. I know it's far fetched and all, but I've seen even stranger pwnage. And Iran discovered the other day that their nuclear facilities had been "cyber-attacked" as well. What I don't get is why they would hit THIS particular flight, but I'm curious as to how FMS works in terms of "could it be?" My theory here would depend on how the airline can "preload" waypoints into that system and I have no idea of how it actually works. Flyboys? Any ideas? :) |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:18:40 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:10:03 2014. I should also add that the reason why I'm off on this particular tangent is that both Chinese and Russian "honkers" are throwing the kitchen sink at computers of all sorts worldwide right now, and our OWN server farm has been under some pretty constant attacks lately. In reviewing the logs I've seen some REALLY bizarre stuff getting tossed our way, and no ... nobody's managed to make it past my code. Yet. :)But I've seen some REALLY bizarre things in the logs and I have seen some tags of "FMS" thinking it was Foreign Military System queries, but perhaps they mean the OTHER "FMS" in what their probing is ... that's why I'm wondering what that traffic might be about. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 18 02:42:42 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:10:03 2014. Biggest sticking point to any kind of outside interference: no distress call of any kind, for example no pilot call saying, something weird is happening and we're not sure what, but we're going off course.The biggest factor pointing to pilot complicity is that there was no signal of any kind that something had gone wrong. Mechanical failure, an explosion, an attempted hijacking, hacking, all these give time for the pilot to say we have a problem here. Also, if the plane went off course for an unexplained reason, the pilot could take manual control of the plane. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:47:56 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 18 02:42:42 2014. From what VERY little I know about modern aircraft, especially Hairbeese, is that the computers know best and will override a pilot causing all sorts of unexpected outcomes. I know nothing about this particular plane, but I sure am waste deep in the surprises folks who know how particular systems work can toss as unexpected results when they hijack the digitals. That's why I'm wondering about this possibility and whether or not the "remote access" can overrride the cockpit. I sincerely wouldn't be surprised if this is possible.But those who DO it are far more likely to know if it's even remotely possible. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:52:17 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:47:56 2014. Let me add that I'm really not comfortable with the concept of "fly by wire" when computers are involved. I'd probably be a little more calm if it weren't for being overrun by our Chinese "friends" the past couple of days at our server farm. So far, all's well but MAN they're busy little fuckers. :(
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Mar 18 06:23:15 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 02:47:56 2014. No, the pilots can easily override the FMS. A1M is correct; had the FMS been hacked they could have issued a distress call or set the transponder to 7700, etc. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 18 08:37:51 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Dave on Tue Mar 18 06:23:15 2014. Nice. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Mar 18 10:44:30 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 18 08:37:51 2014. The Flight Management System is powered thru various interconnected electrical busses with the last gasp being the battery. Disconnecting the appropriate busses will take the Flight Management Computers off-line.The FMS aids the flight crew with navigation, in–flight performance optimization, fuel monitoring, and flight deck displays using Flight Management Computers (FMCs). Automatic flight functions manage the airplane lateral flight path (LNAV) and vertical flight path (VNAV). Disconnecting the autopilot from the FMS will leave the FMS providing route guidance only but not control the aircraft itself (moving the elevator, rudder and ailerons, etc). Cortelyounext can provide much more information since his aircraft use FMS. |
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Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 18 15:59:10 2014, in response to Re: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in MH 370 Read more: Ex-El Al expert: Iran likely involved in, posted by Dave on Tue Mar 18 06:23:15 2014. Cool! Thanks for that ... had me wondering since I still remember that Airbeese headed for the trees on takeoff with the pilot saying "up, up, up!" and the computer saying "Nuh-uh." |
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Re: Stolen passport tickets were sold to Iranian Re: Malaysian Airlines Says Plane With 239 Is Missing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 23 23:06:56 2014, in response to Re: Stolen passport tickets were sold to Iranian Re: Malaysian Airlines Says Plane With 239 Is Missing, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 11 03:46:56 2014. That explains a lot about yerself, then. Got enough arm length to embrace the suck? |
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