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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1181983) | |||
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri May 9 15:09:59 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 9 12:06:22 2014. I think 2 is the crux of many of your problems here. I don't give a damn if you are religious or not, but I am religious, and provided my religious choices don't negatively impact your life ... you should respect my choices in the way I respect yours.If your religion is officially endorsed by the government, then it does affect my life by definition. Are you claiming that opposing theocracy "disrespects" your religion? Or are you claiming it's inherently "disrespectful" that I believe your religion is wrong and hope that, someday, people will choose to abandon it? If that's the case, then your disrespect for my beliefs is no less than mine for yours. ...(and they don't in this case, and they sure as hell don't in the case of your Passover thread)... I never said they did. In this case, you appear to be arguing that it is inherently disrespectful to your beliefs that I don't share them (but do hold the natural human inclination to wish everybody else accepted the facts that I see). In the Passover thread, you argued that it was inherently disrespectful to your beliefs that I didn't share them (or that I performed the related rituals "wrong"). Neither is consistent with your supposed acceptance of other people's beliefs. If a state wishes to maintain policies such as Israel's (Jewish and Democratic), then it does need to manage its demographics in a way you find objectionable, or else it has to engage in policies that are far worse (i.e. an apartheid style system to ensure a minority rules over a majority). America and the Chinese Exclusion Act. Segregation. Both examples of a state that wished to maintain policies and "needed" to manage its demographics in a way I find objectionable. Hopefully, you will find them both objectionable too. Israel seeks to live in peace with its neighbors, its neighbors need to demonstrate that they wish to live in peace with Israel. Jordan and Egypt seem to be managing thus far. Not sure who else there is, given your repeated insistence that Palestine is not a country. Of course, it's not just Israel's neighbors that are relevant here— neither Canada nor Uganda are anywhere near Israel, yet Israel is more likely to accept a (generally) privileged immigrant from the former than a persecuted refugee from the latter, as long as he doesn't eat pork or party on Friday night. Israel is not creating poverty within the disputed territories... So the blockade never happened? I'm imagining it? Sure they're not "creating" it (as in, exclusively) but they're contributing to it and certainly not alleviating it. the poverty is the result of a group of people being abandoned by the countries and people who are best suited to help that population, leaving Israel "responsible" in the eyes of many (such as yourself, who have been deluded by the Palestinian propaganda against Israel) Right, because a Jewish American poli sci major who wrote a thesis on the subject is totally "Palestinian propaganda." ...for neglecting a population that it doesn't want to be part of its own country... Ah, here we are back to Israel and its choice to exclude people for not being Jewish which is, as previously noted, a problem. If someone doesn't want to join Israel, that's their prerogative, but you're not seriously going to argue that every single person in Palestine has dedicated their life to Israel's destruction. By your own admission on point 6, Israel's policies in the disputed territories are justified. Israel has been at war with some countries and entities for 66 years... Which countries? ...including Hamas, which is the governing power in the Gaza Strip. Which you have repeatedly stated is not a country. Which is it? By this logic, Israel is justified in its policies in both Gaza and the West Bank. Even if I overlook your flip-flop and accept that you now suddenly consider Palestine to be a country, you need to take a second look at the prohibited tactics in a war. If Israel is genuinely at war with Palestine, then the appropriate response would be to eliminate the threat as expediently as possible with a minimum of loss. Since Israel is a military superpower compared to Palestine, ending the threat would probably involve overthrowing Hamas, not squeezing Palestine's civilian population while letting the actual enemy continue to act with impunity. That Israel decided to "withdraw" suggests it's not as much a war as you think it is. Furthermore, while you claim it is a disproportionate response for Israel to bomb mosques in the Gaza Strip in response to the rockets sent over from Gaza to Israel by Hamas, you make no mention of the fact that Hamas uses human shields and purposely places its weapons infrastructure in densely populated areas in order to maximize civilian casualties. Come on, bombing a mosque during prayers? There's no way that's justified, especially when a more efficient overthrow of the offending entity has been declared out of consideration. In other words, Israel's policies are much closer to your ideals than those of the PA or Hamas. Gee, really? I guess Israel isn't that horrible of a country after all... Oh come on, seriously? You know, if you stopped making ridiculous assumptions about what I believe, then there would be far less carnage in the local straw man population. |
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