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Join my Valley Metro facebook |
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Posted by dontwalkhand on Mon Dec 15 14:22:48 2008 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=35724594100I have created a Valley Metro facebook where all Valley Metro riders/bus operators/ etc. can come together and promote public transit usage in Arizona. |
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Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008, in response to Join my Valley Metro facebook, posted by dontwalkhand on Mon Dec 15 14:22:48 2008. For all you Valley Metro (Phoenix) fans, here is what I have seen prior to the great changeover on 12/29/08. Remember that tis is subject to change and will be confirmed next week:Phoenix: New Flyers 8046-8050 have been switched from Phoenix-South to Phoenix-West. Expect some 2004 D60LF to go as well. So far, the highest 2008 D60LF that I have seen is 8056. These buses are almost identical to the 2007 D60LFs right down to the fact that they are ALREADY tagged up inside (despite being in service very briefly). The only differences that I noticed are the exterior cameras and the buses have the "priority seating" stickers like the 2006 and 2007 C40LFRs on the windows (rather than on the ad racks). At least they are at the front of the bus unlike on the 2006 C40LFRs (where by the rear door there are stickers that state that the front of the bus is for disabled people only despite being near the middle of the bus). The buses still have the same seats and no LED lighting. I did not notice if the walls were vandal-resistant or not, but I doubt it in this case. Tempe and RPTA. The bottom line is, Tempe cannot handle CNG buses because they cannot fuel them Already, the 2006 C40LFRs have been transferred back to the RPTA and I saw 6401 and 6402 back on Route 30 with RPTA stickers. I don't know if the others have been transferred back as well (6406-6410 etc) and I have not seen bus 6647 since two weeks ago. In return, the Tempe fleet has become more interesting with at least some of the 1998 NABIs 6157-6163, 1999 NABIs 6246-6253 (6254-6255 were already at Tempe), and 1999 NABI 35-LFWs 6256-6261 (saw one of them on route 56-Priest, which was a nice surprise) transferred to Tempe! These buses have not had their headsigns reprogrammed yet, but at least some of them claim City of Tempe ownership. The only thing about this is it seems that the RPTA is going to have a shortage of buses with them giving most of their LNG NABIs to Tempe because Tempe cannot fuel the 2006 C40LFRs. Given the fact that the RPTA is getting route 77 and Tempe is getting route 81 so that Tempe can operate most of the Scottsdale services (not to mention express bus expansion with the RPTA), we will have to see what happens. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by dontwalkhand on Tue Dec 23 14:37:09 2008, in response to Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008. I was on the 56 yesterday, and there was a 35-LFW operating on it, It was in horrible condition, and only one speaker worked on the entire bus, so the Route Scout was turned all the way up, and the speaker was rattling. The other speakers were rusted and were not functioning. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Tue Dec 23 22:30:41 2008, in response to Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008. As far as Phoenix is concerned, I saw 2008 D60LF 8059 on the Red Line westbound on Friday at about 8:00 p.m.Also, I would venture to guess that ALL of the 2006 C40LFRs (6401-6410) are now operating for the RPTA. Today I saw 6405, 6408, 6409, and 6410 operating on various RPTA routes (30, 45, 61). I guess we may see increased use of the remaining 1994 D40LFs (as well as more use of the EZ Riders) on RPTA routes for the immediate future. I know that the Tempe division plans included a CNG fueling station. If the 2008 C40LFRs can work with that station, I'd venture to say that maybe 6638-6647 would likely be moved to Tempe (if they aren't already there). |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by transitbusfan on Tue Dec 23 23:42:45 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by dontwalkhand on Tue Dec 23 14:37:09 2008. Today, I rode a 2008 New Flyer D60LF #6612 on Route 30- University going to downtown MesaToday, I rode a 2002 NABI 40-LFW #6377 on Red Line Westbound to Downtown Tempe Today, I saw 2006 New Flyer D40LFR #6404 on Route 30- University Westbound with RPTA Sticker on it Last week I saw 1998 NABI 40-LFW #6079 on Route 67- 67th Avenue Southbound from Arrowhead Towne Center. I saw 1998 NABI 40-LFW #6085 Not in Service with First Transit Sticker on 43th Avenue southbound I saw 1998 NABI 40-LFW #6042 on Green Line (Thomas) Westbound with First Transit Sticker. Phoenix is sending more 1998 NABI 40-LFW 6000's series to First Transit to replace 1996 New Flyer D40LF 3700's series. Tonight I hear from Veolia-Tempe driver on Route 66, he said to me First Transit might won the contract to runs Tempe bus services. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 01:18:54 2008, in response to Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008. The only thing about this is it seems that the RPTA is going to have a shortage of busesScary. I hope it means that the 1994 D40LFs will stay in service a little longer. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 01:24:08 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by phxtusbusfan on Tue Dec 23 22:30:41 2008. If the 2008 C40LFRs can work with that station, I'd venture to say that maybe 6638-6647 would likely be moved to Tempe (if they aren't already there).Could you please explain why Tempe would get these 2008 C40LFRs (6638-6647) and not other 2008 C40LFRs (such as 6597-6606, or any other combination)? |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 01:40:38 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 01:24:08 2008. No reason, just number continuity and the fact that 6647 was already there at one point in time. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 01:45:13 2008, in response to Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008. great changeover on 12/29/08Just to let everyone know, there is a thread for METRO Light Rail on SubChat: http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=724075. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 17:52:47 2008, in response to Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008. I saw both 6640 (yes 6640) and 6647 on the 72 today.Here's the proof:    
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 20:07:51 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 17:52:47 2008. Great catch!Are the 35-footers still on Route 72 (from what you saw today)? |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 20:45:25 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 20:07:51 2008. I saw 35-footers on it yesterday. Today, I saw only 40-footers (but I was only in Tempe for about 45 minutes and didn't catch what was anywhere else). |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by transitbusfan on Wed Dec 24 21:02:10 2008, in response to Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Tue Dec 23 10:52:43 2008. Today I saw 2008 New Flyer D40LFR #6647 on Route 72- Scottsdale/Rural Northbound at Loloma Station this afternoon.Also I saw 2007 New Flyer D60LF #8036 on Route 41- Indian School Westbound, 2007 New Flyer D60LF #8026 on Route 41- Indian School Eastbound and 2007 New Flyer D60LF #8047 on Route 41- Indian School earlier this afternoon. I saw 1999 NABI 40-LFW #6244 on Route 50- Camelback Eastbound (Veolia-Phoenix operated) I saw 2008 New Flyer D40LFR #6612 on Route 81- Hayden Northbound. I rode this same bus on Route 30-University. I rode 1998 NABI 35-LFW #6193 on Route 72- Scottsdale/Rural Southbound to Thomas Road. This bus have clean windows and still in good shape. I saw 1999 NABI 40-LFW #6254 on Route 72- Scottsdale/Rural Northbound at Loloma Station with non-working destination sign. The RPTA need the phoenix-owned 1996 New Flyer D40LF #3700 series to cover the bus shortage at the Mesa Facility. It may be weird to see the 3700's series 1996 New Flyer D40LF on Route 156- Chandler Blvd or Route 61- Southern. By next month Route 67- 67th Avenue will run 1998 NABI 40-LFW #6000 series all the timw on that route like Route 72 does in Scottsdale and Tempe. Route 67- 67th Avenue will be the next Route 72 with NABI buses all the times. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:16:51 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by dontwalkhand on Tue Dec 23 14:37:09 2008. Do you remember what number it was (or what model year, 1998, 1999 Tempe, or 2000 ex-Scottsdale)? There are only 7 1998 35-LFWs left running local routes with the rest having been transferred over to the FLASH (and they have also been cleaned up to a great degree). I would guess that this was a 1999 35-LFW, which can be hit or miss (depending mostly whether they have replaced the rear side windows). I was on 6206 (?) on Monday and it was in-between (not as dirty as some 35-LFWs but not as clean as others, particularly some of the FLASH buses). Nevertheless, the 35-LFWs may have soft seats, but once they are cut up there really is no benefit. I heard that these buses will soon be rehabbed, and also since they are off the 45 and 77 they should be in better shape in general. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:18:39 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by transitbusfan on Tue Dec 23 23:42:45 2008. Interesting that First Transit would take over Veolia-Tempe's operations. I always thought they wanted to keep Veolia at least for the East Valley.As for the 1998 NABI 40-LFWs I am still trying to figure out which buses are at Phoenix-West (First Transit). I would guess that 6042 is a recent transfer from Phoenix-North to Phoenix-West, probably in exchange for a 2007 D40LF. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:19:18 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by phxtusbusfan on Tue Dec 23 22:30:41 2008. Yep the 2006 C40LFRs were transferred over pretty quickly from Tempe back over to the RPTA. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:20:34 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Dec 24 01:18:54 2008. I hope they make it past 12/29/08 and all of the changes. If they can then I would expect them to stick around until the next group of New Flyers arrive. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:26:41 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by transitbusfan on Wed Dec 24 21:02:10 2008. 1. As I stated in an earlier post, the 35-LFWs for Tempe have become hit-or-miss in terms of cleanliness. I would expect since they have been removed from routes 45 and 77 that they will generally become cleaner and in better shape.2. 6254 really needs to get its sign fixed or get a Luminator Horizon. However, I don't know if that bus is still owned by the RPTA and if they will allow that, despite the fact that 2000 E-Z Riders 4153-4154, which may still be owned by the city of Scottsdale, have had their signs replaced. 3. I don't think there will be as great of a bus shortage as I thought there would be at first. The RPTA would not try to transfer buses to Tempe at the expense of having a bus shortage. The last time they had a bus shortage (back in 2005-2006) was due to the ElDorado National Transmarks and their inability to cover certain routes as far as I know. From what phxtusbusfan has posted, the 1994 D40LFs actually seem to be in better shape than the 1996 D40LFs despite being two years older. They were run into the ground by Phoenix previously but it appears the RPTA has tried their best to take care of them. 4. I always thought route 67 used 1996 D40LFs? Are they quickly disappearing? |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:36:16 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 17:52:47 2008. Nice pics!I checked out the rest of your album from today and noticed some interesting things: 1. Nice shots of the "new kids" at the Tempe Division, especially 6161 6640, and 6647. It will be nice to see some of the 6157-6163 batch back in Tempe as I haven't seen those buses in a while. It appears that the LNG NABIs from the RPTA have not had their signs reprogrammed in the "Tempe" style. 2. Also, your pics of the Red Line (unless someone gets out there Friday) might be the last shots of Phoenix buses running the Red Line, some of the last shots of the Red line in general, and also some of the last shots of Phoenix artics running in Tempe. After December 29, the only Phoenix line running into downtown Tempe will be route 44-44th Street, which doesn't use artics that often. I took what may have been my last ride ever on the Red Line last Monday, and as I got off I realized how odd it is that the Red Line will be gone since it has been running for 15 years. Also, I find it ironic that the 2008 New Flyer D60LFs are running the Red Line for such a short time. (BTW the Blue Line bus stop signs near my house have already started to be replaced with route 39-40th Street signs). |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by transitbusfan on Thu Dec 25 00:44:29 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:26:41 2008. Yeah, I don't see a 3700's series 1996 New Flyer D40LF on Green Line (Thomas), Route 41- Indian School, Route 17- McDowell, Route 3- Van Buren and Route 13- Buckeye.Bus Fan, you must take a last ride on 3700's series 1996 New Flyer D40LF on Route 67 before to be all gone. Last week, I saw a 1998 NABI 40-LFW #6071 on Route 67- 67th Avenue at Arrowhead Mall going southbound to Buckeye Road. I rode a 1996 New Flyer D40LF #3725 on Route 67- 67th Avenue going north to Arrowhead Mall last week. |
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PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Thu Dec 25 13:22:09 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 24 23:36:16 2008. A Tribute to the Red Line:      A Tribute to the Blue Line:    A Tribute to the 1994 D40LFs:        A Tribute to the 1996 D40LFs:     |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by busway flyer on Thu Dec 25 13:49:25 2008, in response to PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by phxtusbusfan on Thu Dec 25 13:22:09 2008. Let me ask you this, are the routes going to be gone b/c of the light rail lines or what?Charlie - BFTA |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Thu Dec 25 13:52:08 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by busway flyer on Thu Dec 25 13:49:25 2008. The Red Line is being replaced in part by the light rail, Route 40, and an extension of Route 15. The Blue Line is going to be replaced in part by the light rail, extra "trippers" on Route 0, and Route 39. Another route, the Green Line, isn't really going away or being changed. It's simply going to be renamed from the Green Line to Route 29. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Thu Dec 25 22:49:16 2008, in response to PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by phxtusbusfan on Thu Dec 25 13:22:09 2008. Question - I notice 3710 has a pre-1997 license plate while 4023 sports the (almost) current design (and a higher number). But of course, 4023 is a 1994 bus.Were the 1994s actually owned by Valley Coach at one time, then sold to City of Phoenix? If that were the case, then the 4000s would have had a bus/taxi plate (3ZS-xxx or similar), then would have changed when the transfer to government agency took place. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by transitbusfan on Fri Dec 26 04:44:57 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 20:45:25 2008. Tonight phxtusbusfan I was looking on your picture, I find a 2007 New Flyer D40LF #6517 on Route 170- Bell Westbound to 51st Avenue.This picture was taken on December 9, 2008. Please show this pictures on subchat.com This bus was operated by First Transit (Phoenix West Division) now Veolia-Phoenix (North Division) Please take more pictures of Red Line buses operated by Phoenix on the last day this morning and NABI 40-LFW on Route 67- 67th Avenue this afternoon. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Fri Dec 26 10:47:56 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by transitbusfan on Fri Dec 26 04:44:57 2008. Actually, that photo was taken on December 9, 2007 when the bus and Route 170 were both operated by First Transit. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Fri Dec 26 14:48:41 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by phxtusbusfan on Wed Dec 24 17:52:47 2008. 6251 seen on #72 12/26. |
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Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Mon Dec 29 11:16:49 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro Bus Moves (12/23/08), posted by transitbusfan on Thu Dec 25 00:44:29 2008. Too bad it seems that the 1996 D40LFs are disappearing so fast. As I have stated before there is a possibility that the last remaining 1994 D40LFs may retire after the 1996 D40LFs. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Mon Dec 29 11:21:58 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Thu Dec 25 22:49:16 2008. According to this production list, http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/builders/nfilist.html, the 1994 and 1996 D40LFs were both ordered by Valley Coach. According to this production list http://community-2.webtv.net/ajkristopans/FLYER/page2.html, the 1994 and 1996 D40LFs were both ordered by Valley Metro. I don't remember what the Western Transit production list said. My guess is that the 1994 D40LFs were either originally owned by the City of Phoenix, RPTA, or both. I don't think they were originally owned by Valley Coach because they were probably bought with public funds. As for the license plates, these may be replacements. However, it is an interesting question to ask. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Mon Dec 29 12:47:15 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by roscoman1986 on Mon Dec 29 11:21:58 2008. I found the city order, so the 4000s were indeed ordered by the City of Phoenix as purchasing agent for RPTA (original 49, then another 22). ($229,311 each!). Beat the Neoplan bid by $12K. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Mon Dec 29 14:48:47 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Mon Dec 29 12:47:15 2008. Does that mean that 49 buses were owned by the City of Phoenix and 22 were owned by the RPTA (I would guess the lower numbered ones) or those 22 buses were options? |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by phxtusbusfan on Mon Dec 29 16:40:53 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Thu Dec 25 22:49:16 2008. I remember reading some City of Phoenix documentation authorizing the purchase of the 1994 and 1996 D40LFs. I am almost 100% certain that these buses were purchased by the City of Phoenix from New Flyer directly. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Mon Dec 29 23:34:28 2008, in response to PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by phxtusbusfan on Thu Dec 25 13:22:09 2008. Nice pics!1. The nicest thing about the Red Line was the fact that it was operated by Phoenix on weekdays and Tempe on weekends. I will miss seeing and riding the D60LFs in Tempe, especially the 2008 D60LFs that probably won't spend much time in Tempe (save for a substitution on route 44). I would guess the 2007 D60LFs will never go back to Tempe except for special moves and if First Transit decides to take over the route 44. As for the opposite (Tempe buses in Phoenix), that will definitely be missed. Although they were not that nice inside, the soft seats of the 35-LFWs and 40-LFWs 6378-6381 were a nice contrast to the Phoenix NABI hard seaters, and not to mention seeing and riding Tempe buses far away from Tempe itself. Too bad I only saw an E-Z Rider on the Red Line once back in 2001-2002 (and it was in Tempe) and apparently an operator said that a Tempe 45C-LFW ran the Red Line at least once. 2. The Blue Line was the route that I took from home to high school and back for nearly three years. My typical morning trip would be on a 1998 NABI 40-LFW from the South Division and during my freshman and sophomore years me and some friends always got the same bus every morning and had some fun memories and discussions. The trip home was run by North Division, running an RTS or 1996 D40LF (during my freshman year summer I got to ride on a 1994 D40LF but that didn't last very long). I remember the buses were always packed with students from Brophy and Xavier, who actually were pretty well-behaved (except during my freshman year summer I don't remember anyone getting kicked off the bus, and they didn't tag it up like other high school students). This route was the most crowded (especially with Xavier students) because so many lived over in Scottsdale. I met some nice people on this bus, some of which I keep in contact with to this day. Ironically, I didn't like the RTS or 1996 D40LFs at the time because it was the same bus type every day and they were "older" than the NABIs (despite the fact that the RTS and 1996 D40LFs are gone now and they both had soft seats). I remember wanting to have artics running on this particular trip. Turns out this was before I found out about North and South Division and the fact that North Division has no artics at all! 3. I didn't really start riding the 1994 D40LFs until I moved down to Tempe. Prior to that, I rode them during my high school summer on the Blue Line (they were the second bus type I ever took in Phoenix) back when they were based at the South Division. That didn't last very long once the 2002 NABIs came in and the buses were moved to Phoenix-West (Laidlaw at the time) and the RPTA. Sometimes, I would try to take the route 0-Central to Sunnyslope and take the 106 to PV Mall as an "experiment" to try to bypass the crowded afternoon Blue Line, which was also always late. As a result, I had a chance to ride on the 1994 D40LFs when Laidlaw ran them (and I also was lucky enough to catch a 1989 35-foot RTS but not a 35-foot Gillig unfortunately). In addition, I wanted to ride on 4071 because it had the same type of seating installed on the 2004 D60LFs as an experiment (hard seats). I remember the Laidlaw 1994 D40LFs were not in that great of shape, but I don't know if that was due to Phoenix-South or Laidlaw itself (considering that the Laidlaw routes except for the 59 and 67 did not necessarily pass through that bad of areas at the time). As for the RPTA D40LFs, I rode them once or twice in high school but not much otherwise. After I moved to Tempe to attend ASU, during my freshman year I rode a lot of RPTA D40LFs (although I tried to catch the Gilligs first and foremost). I remember that when the higher-numbered (4024-4039) D40LFs were first transferred to the RPTA in 2001 and 2002, some of them had ads and at least one (4029) had a wrap left on. In addition, 4021 had an interior ad on it as late as 2005-2006, long after it left Phoenix (unless the RPTA allowed advertising at one time). What is interesting is I don't know who ran the 1994 D40LFs with the RPTA into the ground: Phoenix or the RPTA? I would guess Phoenix because the rest of the RPTA buses are in pretty good shape (save for the mismatched seating). The soft seats were quite nice on these buses, however. 4. I have already discussed some memories about the 1996 D40LFs in my "Blue Line" paragraph. I didn't really get a chance to ride them when they were with Laidlaw/First Transit with the exception of a single trip on Route 13-Buckeye (with the mismatched seating, of course). These buses have been run into the ground at least twice in my opinion. The first time was with Phoenix-North, and the second time was when Veolia-Phoenix and First Transit switched routes. One thing that was interesting about the 1996 (and probably 1994 as well) D40LFs was that the rear side windows used to be covered by mesh to prevent tagging. The problem with this was that it made the bus look like a dungeon inside, and back when the D40LFs were wrapped it made it much worse. At least the interior lights on the 1996 D40LFs were slightly brighter than the 1994 D40LFs, and the soft seats were nice (until they became mismatched). Of course there was the L40LF 3727, which I only had a chance to ride once (on route 72 northbound). It was odd riding a 1996 bus on an RPTA route as it was brighter than the 1994 D40LFs. Too bad that one-of-a-kind bus is history now. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Tue Dec 30 18:03:59 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by roscoman1986 on Mon Dec 29 14:48:47 2008. The first 49 were approved by City Council on 7/7/93. The second 22 were options approved by City Council on 2/9/94. Both papers indicate that RPTA requested that the City of Phoenix act as its purchasing agent. No City funds were used to purchase these buses, just RPTA and FTA.I seem to remember that only the lower numbered 4000s ever operated on Rural Rd. While looking through the docs, I noticed the National Transmarks were done the same way. 4001 was City of Phoenix-owned. There was a note that 4001 was leased back to Neoplan for Altoona testing, and Neoplan supplied an over-the-road coach as a substitute. |
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Re: Join my Valley Metro facebook |
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Posted by nwfblv6 on Wed Dec 31 00:06:19 2008, in response to Join my Valley Metro facebook, posted by dontwalkhand on Mon Dec 15 14:22:48 2008. Some picture that I took in Phoenix on last Saturday include Lightrail and buses.http://www.chaffeeyiu.com/phx/ |
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Re: Join my Valley Metro facebook |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 31 01:04:42 2008, in response to Re: Join my Valley Metro facebook, posted by nwfblv6 on Wed Dec 31 00:06:19 2008. Nice pics! |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 31 01:42:37 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Tue Dec 30 18:03:59 2008. Interesting information! I had no idea that buses 4051-4072 were options (they were certainly no different than 4002-4050).By the way, do you know if any of the 1994 D40LFs were delivered to the RPTA new? I wasn't a busfan until 2001 so I didn't follow buses in Phoenix up until then (although I do have memories of buses between 1993 and 2001, the oldest being the AM Generals but no further information). If they weren't, I would guess the RPTA routes used RTS buses (including some 4300-series RTS with opening windows in the rear section as well) and some TMC RTS from Phoenix, cutaways, or were operated by another division before the D40LFs were transferred over (and the NABIs were delivered). The Transmarks were interesting buses. If I recall, 2301-2323 were built in 1994, owned by the City of Mesa (unless Phoenix operated them before) and were CNG powered. A document dating from 2000-2001 showed them owned by Mesa and operated by Laidlaw although I thought that Forsythe (later ATC) operated Mesa routes. I had no idea that there was a 1994 order of Transmarks until I started doing high school debate and we headed out to Gilbert, where I saw one on route 136. I only rode the Transmarks once in downtown Mesa (on route 104-Mesa Drive) back in 2004. One of the oddest bus sightings I ever saw was also around 2003-2004, when I saw a Transmark operating on North Central Avenue in Phoenix on Route 590-Deer Valley Express! I don't know what the story of this bus was (whether it was being loaned to Phoenix or assigned to ATC-Phoenix at the time) but it was a very odd sighting indeed. I never saw a Transmark again in the City of Phoenix. I don't know if these buses were retired in 2004 (when MV Transportation took over the Mesa Division) or 2005 (when MV Transportation combined the RPTA Division and the Mesa Division) but they were definitely gone by April 2005 and replaced by the leased Gilligs. Also, buses 2324-2329? were built in 1995, with 2324-2328? being owned by the RPTA, and bus 2329? owned by the City of Scottsdale. I saw a photo by Sid from NJ of one of these buses operating on route 81 sometime in 1999-2001 and I remember seeing one (probably out of service) at Shea and the 101 around the same time. These buses were retired sometime in 2002 and were sold off via Arizona Bus Sales. I don't know what happened to the Scottsdale-owned bus, but I remember seeing a brochure with a photo of this bus (or another similar one) in Scottsdale Connection colors. It was then wrapped with an "art" wrap according to the Spring/Summer 1999 Destinations newsletter (http://www.valleymetro.org/images/uploads/destinations_newsletter/Dest2039.pdf) and then was probably retired when Scottsdale Connection was merged into Valley Metro. There is also a photo at http://www.showbus.co.uk/gallery/foreign/usa/vm4.htm. I never had a chance to see 1993 Neoplan AN440LF 4001. From what I understand it was transferred over to the RPTA around 1999 and then saw shuttle service between the garage and downtown Tempe. I don't know when it was officially retired from service. I would guess that it had very similar specifications to the 1994 New Flyer D40LFs despite having a different manufacturer, and that is interesting to know that it was owned by the City of Phoenix. Also, I am guessing that the over-the-road coach that was substituted was a Neoplan Metroliner (which was not the last time that Valley Metro tested an over-the-road coach, as earlier this year they apparently tested an MCI D4500CT (but instead went with New Flyer BRT-styled suburban buses). |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by Sid from NJ on Wed Dec 31 07:55:55 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 31 01:42:37 2008. [I saw a photo by Sid from NJ of one of these buses operating on route 81 sometime in 1999-2001]I had forgotten about that sighting, but do recollect that the Transmarks, in general, could usually most easily be found on the 30, especially the rush hour short turn buses. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 31 14:18:27 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by Sid from NJ on Wed Dec 31 07:55:55 2008. I remember from 2005-2006 the now-retired 2000 ElDorado MST CNGs (2401-2406) that were purchased by the City of Mesa used to often operate the Route 30 short turn trips. Although they were interesting to ride, I am quite sure a lot of people were happy to see those "buses" go. They had a horrible ride quality and rattled constantly.As for the Transmarks, I thought that until 2005 the route 30 short turns were operated by the city of Tempe? Were they operated by Mesa before that (and I would guess that Tempe took over the service before the RPTA took over the entire route because Mesa did not want to run service for another city). |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Wed Dec 31 16:38:17 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 31 01:42:37 2008. I arrived in 1995 (after looking at RIPTA for 4 years), and didn't figure out the transit system for a while. I live closest to #72 and saw mostly 4000s and some RTSs. Downtown were RTS, Flxible Metro and AM General. Everything east of Tempe/Chandler seemed to be Transmark or TMC Citycruiser. Rarely, I would see those little electric buses passing over the 101. I did not notice the MSTs until 2002 or so.From the paperwork, it appears that all of the 4000s (and 3700s) were purchased with RPTA and FTA funds. I'm not sure how the transfer to the City of Phoenix took place, although apparently Phoenix did provide some funding to RPTA through a capital lease. The Phoenix papers showed that the first 23 Transmarks were ordered by Phoenix as purchasing agent for RPTA. At the same time the first of 13 Transmarks were approved, the city (as purchasing agent for RPTA) approved the purchase of 11 low-floor CNG, under-25 foot buses (from Arizona Bus Sales). Not sure what these were or if they were actually ordered: the order for 10 additional Transmarks (with wheelchair lifts) was approved a month later. I saw 4001 in service in the late 1990s in Tempe. But several years ago, it always was seen parked along the fence at the ATC facility (along with retired airport shuttles). When all of the buses moved from 44th St to Mesa, 4001 (and 3010) remained behind, and later disappeared. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Dec 31 19:33:17 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Wed Dec 31 16:38:17 2008. The 11 low-floor CNG, under-25 foot buses were likely Orion IIs. According to:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Metro_(Phoenix)_bus_fleet Only 6 Orion IIs ended up being delivered to Phoenix and were used on FLASH routes. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Wed Dec 31 23:53:10 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Dec 31 19:33:17 2008. I wonder if these buses were owned by Tempe at one time? However, they apparently didn't last that long on the FLASH service (considering that in 1996 two buses were sold to OC Transpo) but they were better than the open "tram" they replaced (which was similar in concept to the existing yellow shuttles at Sun Devil Stadium but used different vehicles. They apparently were part of the original FLASH fleet along with some of the 35-foot TMC RTS. Also I find that interesting that they were powered by CNG considering that Phoenix, Tempe, and the RPTA all went with LNG in 1998 (Mesa stuck with CNG and eventually the RPTA went to CNG). |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Jan 1 00:46:30 2009, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Wed Dec 31 16:38:17 2008. Yep, I remember the AM Generals but not the Flxible Metros (which lasted until 1998) since I was not a busfan until 2001. Also, downtown had the D40LFs, MAN Articulateds, and Orion IIs on the DASH shuttle. The TMC Citycruisers were actually 1987 Orion 01.502 30-footers but they had the same windows as the TMC Citycruisers. There were 10 of these buses (2701-2710) and I believe they were originally delivered to Phoenix (however I saw a photo of one in a different livery, possibly for Tempe, in a 1992 newsletter at the Phoenix Public Library).I remember seeing those little "electric" buses (they were built by now-defunct Advanced Vehicle Systems, or AVS) in 2002 and 2003 (although a couple were built before that according to http://www.valleymetro.org/images/uploads/destinations_newsletter/Dest1944.pdf, sorry about the lack of hyperlink). According to this brochure (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/lng_hybrid_bus.pdf, sorry about the lack of hyperlink again) the buses were LNG hybrid buses powered by a Capstone microturbine. They didn't last that long and were withdrawn from service in 2003 after being replaced by 2003 Startrans Senator cutaways 1332-1340 and some (ex-Mesa?) cutaways in the Valley Metro color scheme (which were themselves replaced by 2005 Startrans Senator cutaways 1399-1402). I don't know if they were withdrawn from service because AVS went out of business or because they were having major problems, but I assume the latter. For a while they were stored in a lot near the old Tempe bus yard and I read somewhere that they were supposed to be reactivated in 2006-2007 to replace the 2003 Startrans Senator cutaways that replaced them. However, it never happened and I don't know if these buses are still on the property. The ElDorado MST CNG buses (2401-2406) were built in 2000 and owned by the City of Mesa. I never saw them in person until 2005 because I never really went out to Mesa (and I did not know they existed until around 2003-2004). They were retired in 2006 after the 60-BRTs came in. The 60-BRTs displaced 40-foot buses, which freed up smaller buses that could replace the MSTs. I saw them about a year later around 44th Street and University Drive painted all white and in storage. I remember that a number of the 1994 D40LFs had markings by the rear doors that said Owner: Regional Public Transportation Authority/Manager: City of Phoenix/Operator: ATC/Vancom. Others had markings that stated RPTA ownership and still others (especially later repaints) had markings that stated City of Phoenix ownership. From what I remember almost all of the 1996 D40LFs had markings that stated City of Phoenix ownership but 3719 had additional markings by the rear door that stated RPTA ownership and Phoenix management (like the 1994 D40LFs). I don't remember if 3727 (the L40LF) was owned by the City of Phoenix or the RPTA, but this bus was repainted around 2002-2004 and in 2004 this bus was transferred over to the RPTA. I would guess that after it was transferred over to the RPTA it was also owned by the RPTA. In addition, some of the TMC RTS had the same situation. Although the majority of the 1988-1990 TMC RTS had City of Phoenix ownership markings, there were some 1988 TMC RTS that had the markings that stated RPTA ownership and Phoenix management, and this was also the case with the two 1989 TMC RTS 40-footers (4434-4435, which were ex-methanol powered buses). Some of the 1990 TMC RTS were originally operated by ATC/RPTA and then transfered to ATC/Phoenix (and finally Laidlaw). These buses had the full "Valley Metro" markings on them (as opposed to just the "Metro" markings on the other Phoenix buses), had black paint on the tops of the front and rear doors, and may have had different numbers in the past. Finally, I remember 4470 had markings stating RPTA ownership (despite being operated by Phoenix). I find that interesting that the City of Phoenix purchased the first 23 Transmarks and that the RPTA may have owned them at one time. I thought these buses were always owned by the City of Mesa. As for the ATC/RPTA facility, I remember seeing bus 3010 (which had a faded paint scheme) but never bus 4001. I tried looking for bus 4001 but for some reason I never found it at the time. This was back around 2003-2004. I remember that 3010 stayed behind in 2005 as well. I don't know the full story of bus 3010, but I believe that it is a 1992 Gillig that was a former demonstrator. It apparently was sold off to Arizona Bus Sales, who posted exterior and interior photos. The interior appeared to have hard blue and black seats. I don't remember when 3010 was in service but I heard that it was in service on Route 30-University. I wonder if it ever wore the Phoenix Transit colors? |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Thu Jan 1 01:00:13 2009, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Jan 1 00:46:30 2009. 3727 was transferred to the RPTA in the same deal as 6074-6084. Here is the City document discussing the transfer:http://phoenix.gov/phxb/ccimages/SendPDF?url=/ccimages/07p/rc567/04257030.tif&saveAS=RCA46006 I do recall those markings on the D40LFs and RTSs. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Thu Jan 1 18:49:39 2009, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Jan 1 00:46:30 2009. I saw the AVS buses in the same lot off University/44th. This photo taken November 2004. I'm pretty sure 3010 was Valley Coach ex-Sky Harbor 3010. The airport buses had the blue and black interior. I saw it on University and on (I think) Alma School. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by RTS_Book on Thu Jan 1 19:06:10 2009, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Dec 31 19:33:17 2008. Anyone have photos of the IIs? |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Jan 1 20:38:46 2009, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Thu Jan 1 01:00:13 2009. That is interesting. I thought that 6071-6085 were the buses transferred over to the RPTA.What is interesting is that while 6074-6084 retained their advertisements as part of an agreement between Phoenix and the RPTA (although some of these buses received the additional "Valley" markings on the driver's side just in case the ad deal expired) 3727 did not have any ads when it was running with the RPTA. It did not receive the additional "Valley" markings on the driver's side either. I don't think 6074-6084 received the "Valley" markings on the passenger side (behind the rear door) like the rehabs have. |
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Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Jan 1 20:41:33 2009, in response to Re: PHOTOS: A Tribute to Valley Metro's soon to be gone routes/buses, posted by T8H5307N on Thu Jan 1 18:49:39 2009. Nice pic!Yep, I remember the old airport Gilligs but not their interior (or whether they had rollsigns or not, I assume they had rollsigns). One difference was that the original airport buses (which were 1989 Gillig 35-footers IIRC) had sideways opening windows and a large rear door while 3010 had top opening windows and IIRC a small rear door. I guess it was operating on Alma School back when the RPTA was running the route as part of route 112 (or something like that). |
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