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| November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's (1003320) | |
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| (1003320) | |
November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 15 09:58:34 2010 November 15, 1960 – The first train of R-27’s entered service today on BMT Rt QT Broadway-Brighton Local via Tunnel (BMT Rt 1). It left from Prospect Park as a specialWith passengers and ran nonstop to Lawrence Street via the bridge and then via the tunnel to Lawrence Street. It then made all local stops to Coney Island and entered regular service later in the day. The consists was 8027-6,8025-4, 8021-0,8028-9. NYD Bulletin Nov 1960 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Mon Nov 15 10:06:00 2010, in response to November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 15 09:58:34 2010. It's too bad that only one car survives to this day now. |
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| (1003683) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 16 08:04:01 2010, in response to November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 15 09:58:34 2010. I wonder how many people were heard asking, "What's a QT?" |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by milan1834 on Tue Nov 16 10:37:41 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by LRG5784 on Mon Nov 15 10:06:00 2010. No, it's not. The R27/30s had no class. They were pieces of sh*t from a rider's standpoint. Very uncomfortable, flat wheel-prone. No soul. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:01:44 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 16 08:04:01 2010. I wonder how many people were heard asking, "What's a QT?"Let's see. The No 1 Brighton Line route letters were Q - Broadway - Brighton Express QB - Broadway - Brighton Local via Bridge QT - Broadway - Brighton Local via Tunnel M - Nassau Street - Brighton Express Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1003829) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:06:06 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by milan1834 on Tue Nov 16 10:37:41 2010. The R27/30s had no class. They were pieces of sh*t from a rider's standpoint. Very uncomfortable, flat wheel-prone.I would say that the worst thing that the R-27's suffered from was a bad paint job. (Remember olive drab?). There seats may have been hard but they were far more comfortable than the seats on the R-40's. They were just that much older than the R-33's that they missed the general overhaul. I liked them better than the R-16's. Besides they had those great rollsign readings which still showed the BMT Southern Division Route names. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1003842) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Nov 16 11:16:43 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:01:44 2010. The M always was a Brighton Local - - the QJ first started on the Brighton line in 1967 as an express. Then NYCT got smart and realized that Brighton Beach was a bottleneck with the D from Coney Island switching to express and the QJ/QB switching to local from Brighton Beach so once the NX was done away, the D took the Brighton Beach terminal while the QJ/QB was extended to Coney Island.The M always was the weekday Brighton local (from 1973 to 1986). However for a brief time in the late 1970's, the M ran express southbound from Prospect Park to Kings Highway due to some weird debris (downed trees?) between Cortelyou and Newkirk. Because of this, a shuttle train was used from Prospect Park to Cortelyou. |
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| (1003870) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:56:35 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Nov 16 11:16:43 2010. The M always was a Brighton LocalDavid: I was thinking back to the period 1961 to 1967. The R-27's had no provision for Nassau St-Southern Division services so they used the "M Nassau St Express reading as a temporary measure. The Brighton Nassau Express ran from Brighton Beach to Chambers Street, northbound only in the am rush. In the pm rush they ran southbound only from Chambers St to Coney Island. They ran via the tunnel in both directions and ran express on the Brighton Line between Prospect Park and Kings Highway. Best Wishes, Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 16 13:27:03 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:01:44 2010. Or, for that matter:"What's an N?" "What's a T?" "What's an RR?" |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 16 13:28:53 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:06:06 2010. I remember that original olive drab very well.Wasn't it true that the R-27/30s were on the heavy side to begin with and that going through GOH and adding A/C would have increased their weight to BMT standard proportions? |
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| (1003937) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Nov 16 14:09:22 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Nov 16 11:16:43 2010. However for a brief time in the late 1970's, the M ran express southbound from Prospect Park to Kings Highway due to some weird debris (downed trees?) between Cortelyou and Newkirk.Part of the retaining wall collapsed near Cortelyou Road and took several weeks to repair. --Mark |
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| (1003961) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Nov 16 14:51:19 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:01:44 2010. During pre Chrystie times, M was also used for the AM 4 Av Nassau expresses that ran from 95 to Chambers via express, the bypass and bridge between 59 St and Chambers. |
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| (1003963) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by 5119 on Tue Nov 16 14:56:25 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Randyo on Tue Nov 16 14:51:19 2010. I was disappointed with the seating arrangement, which reduced the BMT/IND level of serivce to that of the IRT. If they could've only retain the R 16's seating arrangement. |
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| (1003979) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Nov 16 15:48:38 2010, in response to November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 15 09:58:34 2010. I lived near the Astoria line. I was 9 then. I remember talking a walk up to the EL at 31st and 35th ave and seeing them for the first time . Olive Green cars with CONEY ISLAND lit up in bright green on the side of each car. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 16 16:18:00 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 16 11:06:06 2010. The 27/30's were cool..grew up riding those cars over on the BMT EAST...JJ/QJ..KK.I LIKED THEM...too bad they did get a full GOH like the others. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 16 16:20:07 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Nov 16 11:16:43 2010. wrong..! |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Tue Nov 16 18:16:06 2010, in response to November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 15 09:58:34 2010. I remember that well. The train carried a big banner across its front announcing that it was the first of however many new trains.Several weeks later, I got to ride one and it was VERY exciting. I was 7, and in those days ANYTHING new was exciting. Of course I had no idea how much I would come to miss Standards and Triplexes. To someone accustomed to the locked end-doors of the Standards, the ability to walk from car to car was very cool. And in the summer, when all the end doors were kept open, you could stand in a lightly populated train and look all the way through. Powerful recessed fans replaced the old exposed ones. The green destination signs were cool, as was a PA system for conductor announcements -- a real innovation on the BMT! I do remember people who were accustomed to the numbered BMT lines being confused about what a QT was. I recall that shortly after, the TA put up big signs at each Brighton Line station (and probably the others as well) called "Know Your Trains At A Glance," identifying the various letters in use at that time: Q, QT, B, N, RR, T. Thanks for the memory. It's horrifying to realize how long ago it was, and that I have outlived all those trains. |
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| (1004048) | |
Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Tue Nov 16 19:02:37 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by 5119 on Tue Nov 16 14:56:25 2010. Agreed. the seating arrangement just made them fat IRT cars. To me they were the most blandest, straigforward, just the facts ma'am no frills rapid transit equiptment the City ever seen. From outside paint job to checkerboard floor tile pattern...yawn!Not to mention, very sluggish on the accelleration side. The R-1/9's could put them to shame. As a kid I would see them on the RR in Queens leave 74th st on the local track heading twoards Manhattan & at the same time a set of R1/9's leaving on the express track on the E & the pre war equiptment would always overtake the '27/30's until the RR started to brake for 65th st. Were they that much heavier, 27/30's that is?? |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Nov 16 19:17:57 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Brighton Private on Tue Nov 16 18:16:06 2010. I share you memories of the new R-27's too. I was 9 years old when I first saw them from the Newkirk Ave. overpass. The shiny olive drab paint, so new you could smell it and the gleaming aluminum window sashes caught my attention. Location: Coney Island/Stillwell Avenue...Route: QB...Car: R-27 (St. Louis, 1960) 8186... Collection of: Joe Testagrose...Date: 6/1961...from nycsubway.org Bill Newkirk |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Tue Nov 16 22:16:46 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by fisk ave jim on Tue Nov 16 19:02:37 2010. I remember those olden days too. In my case it was the IRT, and I remember the newest (first the R-21,22 then the R-26's) trains in 1958&9 when I was an elementary school kid. The Lo-vs, as the Lexington Av Express, would blow past the SMEEs (the Seventh Avenue Express running on the Bklyn local track) on the Utica/Franklin avenue dash northbound. They (the SMEEs) would always accelerate faster though due, I now think, to the 2 motor per truck design. All things being equal, from a cold start, ALL the SMEEs I remember and saw, were about 1, 2 mph faster leaving the station than both models of Lo-v that worked Brooklyn back then.. I don't remember, or would know, if we ever caught one of the Flivvers, but I hear they were the quickest on a highball with just motors, and no trailers.It probably was the same with the Arnines vs the R-27s on Queens Blvd because the TO also had to prepare to stop several hundred feet before arriving at the platform. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Tue Nov 16 22:20:01 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Nov 16 19:17:57 2010. I remember car 8135, back in the late sixties, because it had a compressor that sounded exactly like an R-38's. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 17 00:06:24 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by irt1958 on Tue Nov 16 22:20:01 2010. U sure about that?? The R38 had a direct drive beltless compressor, (WABCO-D3) where as the R27s had a 2cy type compressor with a belt that turned the motor that started and sounded completely differant.BTW that lone survivor (R27-8145) will soon be leaving us for a reef or scrapers torch unless the museum picks her up to join 8506. WE-44 |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Wed Nov 17 08:02:28 2010, in response to November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 15 09:58:34 2010. Absolutely sure. The second or third time I remember seeing the then brand spanking new R-38, it was layed up on the SB Brighton Express track at the (I think) Avenue H station. I was on my way to Madison HS, and could spare a few minutes, so I got off the train to have a look. All of a sudden the compressor unit started up with that unforgettable loud blast of air, followed by the hum of the (beltless) displacement mechanism. I was enough of a railfan, even as a kid, to know the physical differences so this was confirmed by me visually on the R-26.Most earlier SMEES (R-12 through R-36) had a slightly similar sound sequence, but it wasn't as severe and higher pitched as the 38s. That's why I remember car 8135, (it wasn't 8145) because IIRC, that marriage unit was the only R-26 that used the WABCO D3 unit for air supply/compression till the end of it's service life. Maybe the guys at CI yard wanted to age test it on an earlier SMEE; I believe this unit was also installed on the TM Lo-v, back in '94, for the 90th anniversary 42nd street shuttle run. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 17 08:10:24 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Brighton Private on Tue Nov 16 18:16:06 2010. I acquired one of those Know Trains at a Glance signs a few years ago; in fact, I remember seeing one at Whitehall St. in June of 1967. |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Wed Nov 17 16:10:24 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by irt1958 on Wed Nov 17 08:02:28 2010. Your correct with the LO V's back then their old compressors (D3F) were removed and replaced with WABCO D-3's (R44 type)and static converters to charge the batteries (back up). 5466 one of the cars in the fleet back then (now resides up @ B.E.R.A.)still has that compressor unit on the car.Your probably right I am sorry I really never got to witness that. Although, I do remember the R9's in the BMT Eastern Section (KK Line) were also changed out with WABCO D3 compressors (R42 type) back in the 70's--so yes there was a lot of "experimenting" going on. WE-44 |
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Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's |
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Posted by Randyo on Wed Nov 17 16:38:58 2010, in response to Re: November 15, 1960 - First Run of the R-27's, posted by Brighton Private on Tue Nov 16 18:16:06 2010. When the R-27s first arrived, the bulkhead doors were kept locked between the cars like they were on the R-9s that were on the 4 Av lcl and the R-10s and 16s served the BMT Eastern. Shortly after the delivery of the first R-27s, the TA decided that since 60 ft cars did not have the same dangerous end excess of the steels it was safe to leave the Bulkhead doors unlocked on the R-types and so they were left unlocked on all R types after that. |
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