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Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Thu Apr 16 17:20:55 2009 Some questions about the museum and the fleet:1) How many cars in total are in the fleet? 2) When cars are about to be retired/scrapped, like the R-38, how do they determine which cars are to be saved? 3) How often do cars get switched out of the museum at Court St? 4) How many of the cars can still be used for trips? 5) Have any of the museum cars ever been scrapped? 6) When the cars are refurbished for the museum, are the mechanicals kept as is or can they be set to pre-GOH condition? (so they look AND sound like they came out of the original factory) 7) Does the Court St. museum still have the exhibit of the connection between the motorman's throttle and the electricals (with the functional motorman throttles (both GE and Westinghouse types) on the platform? |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by R160A A Train on Thu Apr 16 17:23:32 2009, in response to Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Thu Apr 16 17:20:55 2009. 5) No |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Ken S. on Thu Apr 16 17:24:37 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by R160A A Train on Thu Apr 16 17:23:32 2009. In Philly, that nearly happened or did happen even though the equipment in question was owned by the city and not by SEPTA, |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Mysterious Friday 1986 on Thu Apr 16 17:59:15 2009, in response to Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Thu Apr 16 17:20:55 2009. I'll try to answer some of them the best I can based on knowledge...For #2: A car isn't so much picked at random for preservation. Rather, a car's usually picked (these days at least) based on availability, the condition of the car(s), and historical value. For example, the R38 cars picked for preservation (4028-29 and 4140-41) were picked this way: in the case of 4028-29, it was most likely picked based on condition of the cars and what was available at the time (there weren't that many of them on the road and were being reefed en masse at the time). And in the case of 4140-41, those were picked based on historical value (first cars to have air conditioning). And here, to quickly somewhat answer #5, that pair almost got reefed. Also, when it comes to condition of the car(s), the better the condition of the car, both internal and external-wise, the less money or manpower needed to clean-up and fix-up the car a bit for preservation. For #6: A railcars nowadays, like the Redbirds and recently, R32 #3352-52, the mentioned R38 cars (4028-29 and 4140-41), and thesoon to be preserved R40M cars 4450-51 and R42 4572-73 are preserved with most, it not, all the components installed on them post-GOH. It might be possible for the cars to be preserved back to pre-GOH in terms of appearance, but internally, it might not be possible based on availability of parts and costs. The R33ML cars saved (9010-11, 9016-17, 9068-69, and 9206-07) for example, though repainted in different schemes, still have post-GOH windows, as well as modern rollsigns and internal components installed during GOH. If a car like, let's say, R6 #1300, is restored, the car is rebuilt with existing parts probably those from storage. Or sometimes parts are ordered and made to immitate the original part needed. Hope this helps...Any more info or corrections can be added by anyone close to this subject. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Apr 16 18:29:49 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by R160A A Train on Thu Apr 16 17:23:32 2009. Actually, the answer is yes.1208 2774 2899 all come to mind. Plenty of others. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Mysterious Friday 1986 on Thu Apr 16 18:48:51 2009, in response to Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Thu Apr 16 17:20:55 2009. Also now that I remember....to answer question #5, R17 6895 and R21 7267, both work motors, are going to be reefed. Those are not technically museum cars, but are supposed to be under preservation. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Thu Apr 16 18:51:38 2009, in response to Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Thu Apr 16 17:20:55 2009. 1) Look it up on nycsubway.org2) The NYTM selects equipment based on historical significance, mechanical and body condition. 3) Frequently 4) This varies depending on which cars are being worked on. 5) Yes, but not in recent times. 6) It is unlikely that any of the cars currently being retired to the museum will be back-dated. In most cases, this would require major body surgery to reverse the changes made during GOH. 7) What do you mean by a throttle? |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Apr 16 20:25:36 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by R160A A Train on Thu Apr 16 17:23:32 2009. 5) NoR-6-2 #1208 was scrapped some years ago for spite. Some TA honcho blew his fuse when #1208 was receiving a new compressor in Coney Island shops. #1208 was preserved and restored since it was piloted by then NYC Mayor La Guardia for the opening of the 6th Ave subway. It ran for some years in the late 1970's on the Nostalgia Special and was the only R1-9 museum car whose drop sash windows opened fully.  Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Apr 16 20:36:17 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by Ken S. on Thu Apr 16 17:24:37 2009. In Philly, that nearly happened or did happen even though the equipment in question was owned by the city and not by SEPTA,That would be the type of cars pictured below. Not sure if this pair were the ones scrapped. Set aside for the Trolley Museum of NY, they were scrapped by the City of Philadelphia without consulting SEPTA first. Now they're all gone. Thank you City of Brotherly Shove!  Line: Market-Frankford El...Location: Frankford Yard...Car: PTC (MFL) T37... Photo by: Joe Testagrose...Date: 11/8/1970 from nycsubway.org Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 16 21:25:24 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Apr 16 20:25:36 2009. It also made an appearance in Nighthawks. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 16 21:27:13 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by Mysterious Friday 1986 on Thu Apr 16 18:48:51 2009. Bummer. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Frank Hicks on Fri Apr 17 00:30:53 2009, in response to Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Thu Apr 16 17:20:55 2009. 1) According to this website, about 50 cars are preserved between the NYTM museum fleet, the preserved fleet stored by NYCTA and the privately owned cars stored on the system.Frank Hicks |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by metropod on Fri Apr 17 00:43:47 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Apr 16 20:36:17 2009. I think what Ken was talking about was the recent fight over the surviving old cars for the Broad Street Line that were siting in Fern Rock Yard. SEPTA wanted them gone until someone pointed out they were the property of the city and it was the city's call. what happened after that I don't know.There was also something about some historic route 100 cars, I don't remember the details. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Fri Apr 17 01:07:46 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by Jeff H. on Thu Apr 16 18:51:38 2009. 7-I think he's referring to a master controller exhibit that used to be on the platform years ago...i dont know if they still have it or not but it is definitely not on display for visitors. The only master controller around intended for the public is the mock up in the R42 screening room upstairs.That reminds me...I always wondered what happened to that large model subway car they had down there sitting on the middle of the platform. It must have been around 10 feet long. I think it was an R10 or R11, but then again, may have been an R15, I don't really remember it all too well as the last time I saw it I was a kid, and even if I did play "count the doors" and "big rectangle or small circles" I wouldn't have remembered...but always wondered what happened to it though, since I don't see it down there anymore. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Apr 17 08:21:08 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 16 21:27:13 2009. And R-10 car #2959 was originally selected to be the Transit Museum car from the fleet, and it was said that some work had or was being started upon for its restoration. It did not happen, and then it went straight to the scrapline instead.I recall that car #2959 having an interior car guard light installed on each side near the manual key-by side doorway position by the side roll sign box. One story I heard that it went for scrap was because some MTA NYC Transit bigshot thought that #3184 was going to be the museum car instead (but then it was sold off at an TM auction in 1989, but is currently owned by RPC on loan at times to the TM). -William A. Padron ["(A) 8 Avenue Express"] |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Apr 17 10:03:25 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by R30A on Thu Apr 16 18:29:49 2009. Actually, the answer is yes.1208 2774 2899 all come to mind. Plenty of others. I'm not sure if they were ever officially designated "museum cars," but R-30s 8289-90, 8392, and 8401 had some restoration work done to them before they were reefed. Here's 8290 on display at the 2004 Roadeo:  |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Apr 17 11:51:06 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Apr 17 08:21:08 2009. I remember seeing a parts car inside Pitkin Yd, was a GE with boxes of WH unit switches, traction and compressor commutator brushes tagged for that car as well as boxes of brand new door relays for R68s . Shortly before the GE was scrapped in 88, the boxes were moved out. Hopefully they didn't go in dumpsters and went for 3184 instead |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Fri Apr 17 13:40:58 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by straphanger9 on Fri Apr 17 01:07:46 2009. Yes, that 'master contoller exhibit' was what I was talking about.It allowed you to move the controller handle the same way an in-service unit was used by a T/O. I found the GE types were easier to manipulate than the Westinghouse types. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 17 22:51:44 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Apr 17 08:21:08 2009. A crying shame that only two Thunderbirds survive. |
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Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Apr 18 07:33:41 2009, in response to Re: Questions about Museum and Fleet, posted by metropod on Fri Apr 17 00:43:47 2009. I think what Ken was talking about was the recent fight over the surviving old cars for the Broad Street Line that were siting in Fern Rock Yard. SEPTA wanted them gone until someone pointed out they were the property of the city and it was the city's call. what happened after that I don't know.You're both probably right, though what happened with the renaming MFL work cars was about to happen to the BSS "historic fleet" when someone stepped in and spoke up. Otherwise a second tragedy would have happened. There was also something about some historic route 100 cars, I don't remember the details. That would be the old P&W Norristown Line ? Since all remaining "Bullets", "Stafford's" and "Spam Cans" are off the property, you may be talking about the last pair of "Spam Cans" left. Supposedly someone was to buy them and or the deal fell through and SEPTA held onto them for a long time. On a recent tour of the Rte.100 shops, our SEPTA tour guide told us that the "Spam Cans" were on the verge of being cut up. Can anyone out there tell us if they are gone ? Bill "Newkirk" |
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