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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:22:43 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:11:11 2008. If I'm right, would you agree to never post here again?Look, SAS will open in phases. Budget will only allow them to open small sections at a time. Based on the existing infrastructure, it makes sense to start running trains to 72nd ASAP, and build from there. And that's not foaming, flaming, smoking, etc........... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:47:25 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:22:43 2008. "Look, SAS will open in phases. Budget will only allow them to open small sections at a time. Based on the existing infrastructure, it makes sense to start running trains to 72nd ASAP"Except that this would violate the terms of their federal funding, requiring MTA to forfeit most of FTA's money, part of which is already spent, and would cause MTA to have to cancel the TBM drilling, for which a deposit has already been paid. If I get you your Haldol, will you agree to take an injection is your ass? It lasts a whole week, and that way we don't have to worry about your forgetting to swallow your pills. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:49:25 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:18:00 2008. No, that's not what "they" said about them. There were hopes and plans to extend the subway further, but nothing was definite and paid for. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:52:44 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:49:25 2008. Wrong. Flatbush was never supposed to be the terminal. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:54:59 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:47:25 2008. Nope. Nothing can stop the TA. They can use 72 as a "temporary" terminal while drilling north to extend. They can do whatever the fuck they want. 72nd will be the first terminal of theh SAS. And it makes sense. May alleviate a little crowding on Lex if all those hospital workers just catch the Q at 72/2 and take it to Brooklyn. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:55:02 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:52:44 2008. OK fine. So what? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jun 21 11:55:21 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:09:31 2008. My anti-virus product comes out of Slovenia.RAOR |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:56:20 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:54:59 2008. Will you take an injection in both buttocks? Haldol will slow you down enough so you'll turn off the delusions. |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 12:14:42 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 00:56:54 2008. Depends on how you define "nice to have". Along the entire length of the SAS, allowance was made for two third tracks - one at 72 St and one south of 42 St. These are the only places to move a problem train to and continue to allow thru service to operate. 72 St also provided for having trains use the outer tracks for thru service while terminating a train in the middle. Without this third track feature, they'd essentially be building the current L line as a Manhattan trunk - and go ask L line riders what happens when a train lays down. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 12:17:17 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:55:02 2008. I'm right you're wRONg. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 21 12:21:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:39:39 2008. It absolutely amazes me that 75-100 years ago we were able to build real trunk lines, like the West and East Side IRTs and the Queens Blvd line. A good deal of this contruction took place during times of depression and even war.Today, with all our technology, we don't seem to be able to build a decent line from 63rd to 99th Street. And I knwo that money's short (again), but it seems to me that having a siding to park a disabled train is a bloody good idea. I anticipate the whole project (stump that it is) being killed in the near future. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jun 21 12:21:09 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 12:14:42 2008. Maybe they can build a provision for the extra track at 72nd and build it later. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 12:25:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 12:14:42 2008. "Along the entire length of the SAS, allowance was made for two third tracks - one at 72 St and one south of 42 St. These are the only places to move a problem train to and continue to allow thru service to operate."Nice to have - not essential. I think it's worthwhile, but you're overblowing its importance. It isn't worth sacrificing two subway stations and running afoul of the FTA. "Without this third track feature, they'd essentially be building the current L line as a Manhattan trunk - and go ask L line riders what happens when a train lays down." Yes, and something similar will happen in the SAS. You'll have to single-track with delays or use buses while the tuck train is rescued. Oh well. Get over it. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 12:27:54 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jun 21 12:21:09 2008. They are reducing the sytation shell dimensions, so I doubt that will be possible. Reducing the dimensions dramatically reduces the amount of steel and concrete you need, ansd reduces the time required to build.I didn't say I was in favor of that generally. I'm sorry they have to do that. Tell George Bush to redirect more money to improving our infrastructure and less to the war in raq, or ask Bill Gates to let MTA have one of his billions, and we'll have the third track back. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 12:30:42 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 21 12:21:04 2008. "It absolutely amazes me that 75-100 years ago we were able to build real trunk lines, like the West and East Side IRTs and the Queens Blvd line. A good deal of this contruction took place during times of depression and even war."A lot of lines were built as open pits. When Queens Blvd was built, there was literally nothing there except farm fields. Also, if workers died during construction or toxic waste materials were dumped in the East River, nobody gave a shit. I don't know about you, but I don't want to go back to those days. The SAS will be built; it will be built well and you'll be riding soon enough. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jun 21 12:44:21 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. Why is this being done without any input from the public-- and at what seems like the last moment? The plans are made and the construction is under way. It seems rather underhanded to me. I'm also tired of seeing government chintz out all the time. It would be interesting to see exactly how much money is being saved. Meanwhile, there was no time wasted in saving NYC OTB, a money-losing political patronage machine if ever there was one. If there were three major political parties, and each platform had to have a platform attendant, we can rest assured that the 72 St station would have three platforms. |
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Posted by Russ on Sat Jun 21 12:48:13 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 20 23:45:02 2008. "If the full length line is ever built, what is the late night (or even weekend) service pattern."Q and T run 24/7. With one of these eventually (hopefully) running down 125th St, and the other running (hopefully) to the Bronx, there wouldn't be much point to a three track/ two island station at 72/2 for revenue service. When Phase 2 gets underway, look for the 125/Lex station to also be reduced to two tracks as well. Why make it three tracks if there is now the intention to extend it to Broadway during this century? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 12:48:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 21 12:21:04 2008. Yeah, but look at the bright side ...tax cut! :-\ |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 12:52:14 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jun 21 12:44:21 2008. "Why is this being done without any input from the public-- and at what seems like the last moment?"It isn't being done at the last moment. What you resad was a presentation to Community Board 8 well in advance of the construction. "The plans are made and the construction is under way" Not at 72nd St. In fact, the 72nd St station contract hasn't been released for bidding yet. DMJM+Harris/ARUP has completed the design, but that's sitting on a computer. You can change that. The TVM isn't even here yet. None of this will change the current contract, which is TBM drilling plus digging shafts for each of the station sites. The best time to deal with a money problem is now, before MTA has to pay huge penalties to change orders mid-stream. Nobody can force construction companies to bid contracts at prices you mandate. Maybe you should try living in China. There the government can dictate a lot more of what happens in a project. |
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Posted by Russ on Sat Jun 21 12:57:20 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 21 10:04:53 2008. "Just another sign that the line below 63rd St. will never be built."Never is a long time, so it is pretty safe to say that you are wrong. Also, existing trends will basically force the SAS to be built in its entirety. It works like this. Rumors have it that the LIRR will be running service into Grand Central in several years. When this happens, the Lex will get even more crowded. Also, real estate development continues on the East Side. What happens if the SAS doesn't get built? real estate values will begin to flatline and then drop. Why are real estate values important? Because the real estate industry has been the most powerful force in this city for a very long time. They are what got the original subway built. They are what will make sure that the SAS gets built. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 13:01:34 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Russ on Sat Jun 21 12:57:20 2008. There you go...that and gas going to $5 a gallon... |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 13:33:07 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 12:14:42 2008. Without this third track feature, they'd essentially be building the current L line as a Manhattan trunk - and go ask L line riders what happens when a train lays down.I would hazard a guess bi-directional signaling will be installed on the full length of the route. Pull the crippled train into the station and run trains around it on the other track until it can be move to a yard. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 21 16:22:24 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 12:30:42 2008. I realize that Queens was a different place in 1930 than today. I also certainly don't want to go back to the days of total disregard for the environment & worker safety as well as rampant discrimination which existed in America in the old days.But I would think with the advances in technology, it should make construction more, not less efficient, to the point where the line may not even get built at all. In fact, I think it's a question of political will and influence. Cosnider the two new stadiums beiong built with public backing (I think in terms of public guarantees of the bonds, but I'll admit I don't know the details, other than there is some sort of public sponsorship). The stadiums, while possibly nice, represent private interests, and I have a hard time with putting tax dollars on the line for them in any way. The SAS, and many other transit and highway (I said the "h" word, LOL) projects serve a PUBLIC interest, and yet there's just never enough $$ for them in NY. Also, let's consider this: 1968 (or thereabouts) 1) NYC Issues the "Plan for Action"- no need for me to cite all of its elements here; 2) Washington DC plans (or begins building) its Metro from scratch. 3) I was born (this was definitely in '68, LOL) 2008: 1) Six stations from the plan for action actually exist, and those stations are on separate lines. There's also a somewhat useful alternate routing to get Queens Blvd trains to the Manhattan IND, and there's two concrete lined holes in Harlem. The Myrtle Ave & Third Avenue lines were demolished and not replaced. Dat's it. 2) Washington DC completed its Metro. The Metro includes tunnels under streets, under water, bridges over water, elevated and at grade sections, and direct link to a major airport (no silly "Air Train"). Locals complain about it, and I think it's a little dull, but it's there, and it works. Plans to expand it further seem to have realistic chances of realization. 3) I spend too much time on Sub and Bus Chat, and accordingly remain single. |
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Posted by caine515 on Sat Jun 21 16:32:38 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:14:32 2008. something tells me the way the second avenue subway is comning along, it will only be the "Q" line on 2nd Avenue between 63rd Street to 72nd Street-if we are lucky 86th Street. But i don't believe in my lifetime i'll see it go all the way to 125th street. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 21 17:46:44 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 21 16:22:24 2008. Oh well...DC managed to get its lines built because it was a "National Pride thing"...[I know..I was in that city for a few years while Metrorail was being built..and You could see it in the air the PRIDE that came along with the subway].. Also..DC is WORSE than NY politically..yet they managed to build a 102 mile system in 30 years..while the MTA built 6...just makes you wonder..even during those lean times...MANY CITIES MANAGED TO BUILT RAIL LINES..while NYC fell through... A good reason for that,most of the money FOR the new routes went directly to the MTA during its FORMATION...with very little ACTUALLY GOING ON SUBWAY CONSTRUCTION...What they tried to pull off was "We'll built Some of it with fund we have...then let the FEDS build the rest..only we won't use ALL of the funding..we'll ho0ld back some,and cry broke.."! Then the MAYOR stepped in,and threw EVERYONE a WHAMMY...TAKE ANY AN ALL FUNDING FROM NEW ROUTES..TO COVER OPERATING AND FAREBOX.. That was a WTF moment.No SAS..NO REAL 63RDST..NO UTICA AVENUE..NO REAL ARCHER AVENUE...NO NOTHING. New York..spent the last 30 years trying to recover from that bullshit...meanwhile cities ALL OVER THE WORLD are opening subway and lightrail...even in our own back yard!take a look across the HUDSON one day to see the EXCELLENT LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM built by NJTRANSIT.] I hate politics... |
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Posted by Russ on Sat Jun 21 17:51:58 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 21 17:46:44 2008. Washington DC didn't have to pay for the rehabilitation of a neglected system. That consumed quite a bit of the MTA's money. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 21 18:07:38 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 21 17:46:44 2008. Exactly. DC, and even New Jersey, had the WILL to get the Metro and HBLR done, and apparently done well.New York has had 40+ years, and counting, of excuses. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jun 21 18:27:38 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by caine515 on Sat Jun 21 16:32:38 2008. LION says:Send the (Q) and the (N) train to 125th Street. BWAY EXP = 63rd Street / Manhattan Bridge BWAY LCL = 60th Street / Montague Tunnel (W) = Astoria to Whitehall Street - 24/7 (W) = Astoria to City Hall (LL) to alleviate congestion at Whitehall. (W) = Astoria to 9th Avenue also to alleviate congestion at Whitehall. (R) = Forest Hills to Ft. Hamilton - 24/7 Obviously the (Q), (N) and (W) trains are going to need more equipment. ROAR |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 18:46:17 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 21 17:46:44 2008. Also..DC is WORSE than NY politically..yet they managed to build a 102 mile system in 30 years..while the MTA built 6...just makes you wonder..even during those lean times...MANY CITIES MANAGED TO BUILT RAIL LINES..while NYC fell through...DC may be worse than New York politically, but the biggest difference between the New York MTA and WMATA is the fact that WMATA is NOT an agency under the umbrella of a state or city government. The folks that represent the people that live outside of the area in the states that are served by the WMATA compact have very limited say as to what WMATA can do. The way the articles in the WMATA compact are written basically makes it impossible for one or more of the members from ganging up against one of the others members. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 21 19:18:44 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 11:49:25 2008. You are full of it...Flatbush WAS PAID FOR...yet the TA used the money for other things... As a matter of fact...the TA plucked down a pretty penny with that state BOND ISSUE..and made out pretty good. The Worst SMACK IN THE FACE the MTA GAVE NYC was bullshitting the riders about the "massive expansion" planned for the subway... They knew damn well that the formation of the MTA would take a chuck of those fundings...and knew damn well that the UMTA may or MAY NOT help with the construction cost... Yet..the MTA..managed by the same crooks that ran the TA..the SAME CROOKS that GOVERNED our state...the SAME CROOKS THAT HAD outside intrest that cover more GAIN by pushing those BULLSHIT PROJECTS through that they KNEW would be held up due to various reasoning[like NO MORE MONEY TO FINISH THEM AFTER THEY WERE PLUNDERED BY CROOKED POLITICIANS]..and to think..FULLY HALF of the subway could have been built with the money they are using to build this very short line. You need to wake up and smell the coffee..and take your head out of the MTA's ass for a minute.. Im all for the new line getting built...but IF there is the slightest chance of what happened in the 1970's,happening NOW..I'd rather NOT see it done. |
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Posted by 7trainkrys on Sat Jun 21 19:52:00 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 13:01:34 2008. Even the MTA fessed up that fuel costs are affecting the cost of bus operations. And frankly, Select Bus Service on the M15 is not a bad idea. If it speeds up service that will take people off the Lex line as long as the fare is still $2. Rising fuel and tax costs drive people away from car ownership in the city and away from car + home ownership in outer counties. |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Sat Jun 21 20:17:09 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:14:32 2008. Now if you have a BO train what do you do with it to get it out of the way?Two track lines are great if everything works but don't bet on that in NY. The money saved on this will be spent on making more switches so trains can be turned. FLASH GORDON |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 20:45:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 13:33:07 2008. With the new rule changes that just went into effect, it'll be about 20 minutes before you can bring a train in against the normal direction of traffic. |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 20:53:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 20:45:57 2008. ARE YOU SERIOUS? SHAME!We gotta put an end to these idiotic managers and executives who cook up this stuff. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 20:54:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 20:53:04 2008. What are you doing this summer, besides humping subway trains? Do you have a job? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 20:59:56 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Sat Jun 21 20:17:09 2008. Don't have to tell me. :) |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 21:04:53 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Sat Jun 21 20:17:09 2008. Now if you have a BO train what do you do with it to get it out of the way?Two track lines are great if everything works but don't bet on that in NY. The money saved on this will be spent on making more switches so trains can be turned. Look at the both track configurations again. The revised configuration allows the direct movement of trains from track S1 to S2 and viceversa. The previous configuration required trains to pass through four turnouts. The revised configuration will allow trains to pass through only 2 turnout at two different location. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 21:12:00 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:14:32 2008. So 6av was local only originally?Was it just under the PATH? How long did it take to add the express, and did they use a shield? Also, did local service continue to run during the process? Also, i read that the BSS was local only at first, until they expanded it to have one of the best express runs in the world. Did they wuild the local and express tunnels at the beginning, or did they use a shield to just widen the tunnels? The problem with TBM structures is that since it is a tube, you can't dig into its side without enough support, because you undermine the interity of the arched roof. With a square tunnel with STEEL and CONCRETE beams, this is not a problem. You can leave the beams there, and dig between them. |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 21:16:45 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 20:59:56 2008. I maybe wrong as hell here, but I recall reading somewhere that the TBM that was going to used under Second Avenue proper was not capable of steering in the X axes. You will note that the track S1 and S2 tunnels are tangent in the revised configuration and the previous configuration had S curves in the X axes on both ends of the station.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 21:27:46 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 20:45:57 2008. With the new rule changes that just went into effect, it'll be about 20 minutes before you can bring a train in against the normal direction of traffic.You missed the point I was making. With bi-directional signaling those rule changes you are referring to will not be applicable. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 21:38:12 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 21:16:45 2008. I'll have to take your word for it, this machine can't do PDF or flash so I can't look it up at the moment. NYCT doesn't like to single track a mainline though ... there's safety procedures, passing of the baton and of course, assembling a phalanx of adminiswigs and docudroids. So those of us who've pounded the road are kinda giggling over the possibilities. :) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jun 21 21:44:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 21 12:14:42 2008. You are of course correct, Alex L. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jun 21 21:46:26 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:43:32 2008. You F'ed up. Maybe some day you'll listen to me. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jun 21 21:54:31 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 21:27:46 2008. With bi-directional signaling those rule changes you are referring to will not be applicable.I'm not quite following. WITHOUT bi-directional signaling, they certainly wouldn't be applicable, since movement might be prohibited barring some sort of tightly regulated manual block operation system at very low speed. |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 22:10:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:43:32 2008. Yup, bean counters are slapdicks personified. SHAME. They mess everything up, just like those idiotic future analyzers, such useless info "the NYC subway will be at capacity in 20 years...MY ASS". Why not fire these useless counters? Fire the executives too. I can run all these systems better than these slapdicks, all i need is funding, or just have people listen to me. :( |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 22:21:33 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jun 21 21:46:26 2008. Heh. Nah ... every now and then kitty cats gotta swat at things, walk into a wall and then say "I meant to do that ... phucking meow." :) |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 21 22:22:58 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jun 21 21:54:31 2008. I'm not quite following.With bi-directional signaling no train can enter the segment of track where a train is traveling against the normal direction of traffic from beyond the next interlocking. This how WMATA single tracks around stalled trains and segments that are closed for scheduled maintenance. Trains run at normal speed against the normal direction of traffic with their bi-directional signaling system. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jun 21 22:38:49 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:33:57 2008. Why do you reply to him at all? He always "wins" in his mind, encouraging him to become more of an asshole the next day. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 23:00:23 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jun 21 22:38:49 2008. Lots of that going around ... I don't mind responding to any of them. All a matter of lobbing the grenade, and walking away snickering like Muttley. :)
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 23:04:40 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 23:00:23 2008. That's one cool dude.Whatya do with that old nucular meter - the one with the needle quivering in the red while you said, "Ah, see, now look what you did..." |
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